The Bridge

9:03 PM

@RonanForman There is going to be a roughly six month delay before we start hearing the cries after dozens of kickstarter failures with very disappointed backers that thought they were customers.

Ronan Forman

@RedRiderX They're investors, and the dumbest on the planet.

RedRiderX

@RonanForman Exactly, investors that thought they were customers and had no real idea of the risk

Alok

@fbueckert Zynga stock deflating just shows that there are others crowding in (EA etc.) to emulate them; and also that their initial success has run its course. They could easily die if they wasted their boom time money, but if not I expect them to stick around for a long time.

@fbueckert Sorta - depends on what microtransactions are used for. ex.: Path of Exile model, where they plan to only have cosmetic stuff for sale ... I don't think that detracts from gameplay. Or Riot (LoL) that allows f2p players to earn heroes; and only has skins exclusively for RP

RedRiderX

@MarkTrapp But hey, Notch has thrown a few grand at it, so it must be a good idea.

user2334

@RedRiderX He also threw a few grand at Minecon, and that was terrible! Hey-o

Alok

9:11 PM

@Koviko There are entire groups just focused on 'friending' people so you have more neighbors in farmville or w/e game ... I know my aunt has zillions of neighbors from entire world this way :P. And theoretically, you could have dummy or sockpuppet a/cs added too, I've not heard of FB cracking down on them.

Wipqozn

re: The casual gaming discussion. I consider someone to be a casual gamer if they don't play games on a regular basis.

Just like I would refer to someone who doesn't goes cycling on a regular basis to be a casual cyclist.

but they still do said activities on a semi-regular basis.

That is to say I view casual as a measurement of time spent on said activity, not what games you play.

user15026

@Wipqozn I like this definition. :)

Alok

@Wipqozn ^ this

Koviko

@AshleyNunn Except, that leaves us with no name for what we consider to be "casual games."

James

Casual games tend to lend themselves to short play sessions

That is all

a round of TF2 like a round of bejeweled all qualify

Koviko

9:16 PM

But, to say that casual gaming is just infrequent gaming, that means that those "casual" games don't have to be played casually.

James

Hell I pick up GTA3 on my iPad and pop out a mission from time to time.

Koviko

So that leaves us with a missing name for casual games.

James

Not infrequent, just short duration

Koviko

What are these games to be called if not casual?

James

You play a game for 15min

Wipqozn

9:16 PM

@Koviko Games.

RedRiderX

@Koviko Games for normal people?

Koviko

@Wipqozn ... Games have genres.

You've got your FPS

You've got your RPG

You've got your Puzzle

And then there's FarmVille

Wipqozn

@Koviko Casual isn't a genre.

RedRiderX

@Koviko Social Games

Wipqozn

@RedRiderX This.

Koviko

9:17 PM

@RedRiderX Social games. K.

And what about Angry Birds? WHat would that be?

Bird flight simulation?

RedRiderX

@Koviko I was going to mention that.

Wipqozn

@Koviko I'd consider that to be a puzzle game.

RedRiderX

@Koviko Physics puzzler

Wipqozn

Honestly, genres are messy. As gaming expands it becomes more and more difficult to slap a genre on something.

Koviko

@RedRiderX But... But that's what Portal is.

Wipqozn

9:19 PM

@Koviko Not all puzzle games need to be the same. That would be boring.

James

@Koviko Um.. So?

UQAllulloo

@Koviko One's 3D and one's 2D, but they're the same genre.

James

There can be more than one physics based puzzle game

Wipqozn

Honestly, genres really don't tell you much about a game anymore. Games normally have parts coming from multiple genres.

UQAllulloo

One's just a 2D sidescrolling physics puzzler, and one's a 3D FPS physics puzzler.

Koviko

9:20 PM

I feel like there needs to be a complexity distinction.

James

You mean like First person RPG? Or Action Adventure RPG? :)

Koviko

I know that I, personally, find games that look harder to build feel more "worth it" to me.

James

lol

Alok

@Koviko So you want a clunkier UI that impresses you with the difficulty of doing any gaming actions?

RedRiderX

@Koviko No, Angry Birds and Cut the Rope are physics puzzlers. Portal is the latest variation on the first person adventure game.

Koviko

9:21 PM

@Alok I never said that. But I'd rather chop logs in Skyrim than collect wheat in FarmVille.

James

@RedRiderX I would not consider Portal an adventure game.. I do think it is a puzzler.

Koviko

@RedRiderX Cut The Rope is awesome, though. ... I don't know why I find it better than Angry Birds, though.

Wipqozn

Alok

@Koviko And yet, Farmville has way less bugs than Skyrim ... but I think what you're actually referring to is an ingame system that has rewards and risks

Ronan Forman

The current genres suck, why do we catagorise games based on mechanics, we don't base films on what camera shots they use.

Koviko

9:23 PM

@RonanForman We don't?

James

@Wipqozn There is something inherently wrong with that picture and as soon as I get over its awesomeness I will let you know what it is :)

UQAllulloo

@RonanForman The current genres are really good.

Alok

Genres used to be so simple and clear cut till strategy changed from TBS to either TBS or RT; and then we started getting a lot of different mix & match types :P

Koviko

@Alok Bugs should be relative to the amount of code, IMO.

Wipqozn

@RonanForman Due to the difference in medium. Movies are about story-telling, so we define them based on their story. Video Games are about gameplay, so we define them based on their gameplay.

Koviko

9:24 PM

@Alok We could start building out genres farther. Music is suffering from the same issue.

Wipqozn

There is more to it than that, but that's the core of it.

James

@Koviko Meh, Music deserves to suffer.

Wipqozn

@James I think music has suffered enough in recent years.

Alok

@Koviko Uhh no, I'd prefer to see games released without any unplayable or severely bad bugs regardless of code size ... but that's a pipe dream in today's world of post-facto patches

James

@Wipqozn Story telling used to be a game mechanic that was qualified as a 'Role Playing' game.

RedRiderX

9:26 PM

@James Portal uses the objects found within the world to further the narrative and unlock new parts of that world. I don't find much of that in Angry Birds.

UQAllulloo

@Koviko Because that's so hard to determine.

Ronan Forman

My point is that portal for example is technically an FPS, but most people'd say it's a puzzle game.

Koviko

@Alok FarmVille has bugs, But most of them can be fixed with a refresh. If Skyrim has a bug, you don't really want to just close it and re-open it.

James

@RedRiderX Remove the story from both of them, and they are both basically puzzle games.

UQAllulloo

@RonanForman It's both.

Wipqozn

9:27 PM

@RonanForman Honestly, FPS is a terrible name of a genre.

Koviko

@RonanForman You don't actually "shoot" anything, so it's just a first person puzzler.

James

@Wipqozn I think we all agreed they all suck :)

Koviko

Unless you count placing portals as shooting.

Wipqozn

@Koviko oh you

What I mean is that all FPS really tells you is that the game is A) In First Person and B) Contains shooting

Alok

@Koviko Then you'd get more games that specifically are built to cross genres for greater appeal; which is how the lines got blurred in the first place. Unlike plants & animals; games are actually aware of their little labels and sometimes try to subvert them

James

9:27 PM

@Wipqozn Did you just dur me good tortoise!?

Koviko

@Alok For some reason, I'm reminded of the train wreck that is Spore.

Wipqozn

@James I dured myself.

Ronan Forman

@UQA Fine, it's technically both, but no one calls it an FPS.

Wipqozn

and that doesn't really tell you anything.

RedRiderX

@James But I would argue that the story is an integral part of portal, and it would lose a lot if it we removed. What would... say Skyrim be without the story?

Lazers

9:29 PM

0

Q: Host bukkit server with regular server

My question is simple. I have a bukkit minecraft server. Right now there is no bukkit 1.3.1 version. Is there a way to take my server and host it with the regular minecraft server until a new version of bukkit comes out ? If there is, how can I accomplish this ?

James

@Wipqozn Ahh I see, I was just about to give a movie example like Fight Club.. I am not sure what it is classified as (action movie?) But to me its a dark comedy and a social commentary movie, but when branded it will just be one of those and which ever one is generic enough to get people to consider watching it.

Alok

@Koviko Honestly just reading about the chorus of 'help save me with console commands' has greatly decreased any possible chance of me trying Skyrim. That, and the way level up skills worked in iirc Morrowind (or was it Oblivion) which reminded me of FF8 style leveling

Koviko

@Alok I didn't play very far into Skyrim, but I never encountered any bugs.

And most of the console command bugs come from doing weird things.

Like being in the middle of a quest and suddenly deciding to leave the area and do something else.

Or Lydia.

James

@Alok I had one quest where the NPC I was doing it with fell through the world.. That was annoying.. A quick reload would have fixed it.. if I had remembered to save :D

Alok

@Koviko There are more successful ones too; like Warcraft 3 which was billed as a cross between strategy and rpg (with the hero aspects) etc. Or Diablo which is rpg lite; far less parameters and change to realtime instead of turn based.

Koviko

9:31 PM

@James You were doing it with an NPC?

James

@Koviko ಠ_ಠ

UQAllulloo

@James Beat me to it.

@Koviko ಠ_ಠ

Koviko

@Alok Yeah, but Spore tried to build a whole bunch of different genres into separate levels.

James

@UQAllulloo Add in man.. The more disapproving looks the better.. Right on :D

Alok

@Koviko This is considered abnormal? If I can roam around in a game world; don't expect me to just follow a railroad path to completing quests without wandering off. And the follower doesn't level bug (which still exists) is pretty major imho.

James

9:32 PM

@Koviko And it sucked at all of them.

@Koviko Spore's biggest 'game play' tag would be mostly-player-created-content

Aww

Koviko

@Alok Considering how open-ended it was, I can forgive errors here and there.

Also, the questions here are all answered with console commands

James

There we go :)

fbueckert

@Alok You missed the casual qualifier. :P

UQAllulloo

@Alok If you enter a dungeon with a bunch of people then leave while going through it and start doing other quests possibly related to those people, it's hard to avoid.

Koviko

But most of these things can be fixed with mods

fbueckert

9:33 PM

Also, we're going to disagree on what Zynga's stock tanking means.

James

How did we go from talking about how genre classifications suck to the number of bugs in Skyrim?

Koviko

That's what conversations do.

James

@fbueckert It means they got what they deserved :P

fbueckert

I see it as a bubble bursting. You, obviously, see it as something else entirely.

@James That, I can certainly agree with.

Koviko

@fbueckert I hope it means Zynga will fall as Titans do.

fbueckert

9:34 PM

Also, I'm home now. For about a half hour or so.

Alok

@fbueckert Oh I am all for FV dying out completely and other publishers being scared to try that sort of micro transaction stuff. Just think its unlikely :(

James

I kept saying for a few years now that a company supposedly worth a few billion would not in its right mind raise 300m in VC every damn year!

Makes no sense to put yourself under someone else's thumb for money if you are worth so much.

Alok

@fbueckert I see it as partly bubble burst; but also partly overcrowding in that category

fbueckert

@Alok The latest casual microtransaction game released, that I know of, is SimCity Social.

And it's an affront to even the casual moniker.

James

@fbueckert wait for Mechwarrior Online :D

Koviko

9:36 PM

@fbueckert When that came out, my gf was going to start playing it

I said "no"

And bought her SimCity 4

fbueckert

@James THAT will be fun.

James

@fbueckert ^^ Is

user15026

@fbueckert I wanted it to be a nicer mix of SimCity with some social elements, but I was like...oh, this is just a reskinned FarmVile.

user15026

You know, I like that typo. Imma gonna leave it there.

James

I may or may not be in it, I can not tell you.. But I can say I did eventually buy a founders pack

Alok

9:37 PM

@James I had these sorts of meandering convos with a friend. Once we thought of figuring out, 'how the heck did we get from subject A to B?'. Turns out that discussion was almost as long as the original one!

Koviko

@AshleyNunn FarmVile.

James

@Alok LoL, I guess I will leave it alone then ;)

Koviko

@Alok It's a good way to revive a dead conversation.

user15026

@Koviko Sums it up neatly, doesn't it? :)

Koviko

Until that one dies.

fbueckert

9:37 PM

@AshleyNunn Which is a crying shame. It had the potential to be so much more, but now, it's just EA's attempt to cash in on the SimCity name.

Koviko

@AshleyNunn I quit WoW for a while and started playing FV to fill the void.

user15026

@fbueckert Yep. Complete with asking my friends for stupid crap.

Koviko

I had more fun scripting programs to automate it

Than I did actually playing it.

James

@fbueckert That new SimCity trailer that came out at ... E3?? ... caused a Huge splash in the market, they are just cashing in on it

spugsley

@Koviko I tried playing WoW once and had to force myself not to vomit after about 15 minutes

Koviko

9:38 PM

@spugsley o.O

Spugly pls

7

spugsley

@Koviko NOT YOU TOO

fbueckert

@James If they keep the always online component, I'm going to pirate it HARD.

user15026

The worst was one post on a friend's page that was like HELP HELP HELP...you clicked it, thinking oh maybe they had a real life problem.......nope. Just a hidden SimCitySocial request

Alok

@James Well to actually answer your question, we didn't - Koviko mentioned that he considers code complexity as an indicator of game quality; and that started the Skyrim convo (it wasn't related to genre classifications at all).

James

@fbueckert Ugh.. Firewall, hehe.. I dont care about the social media tie ins

user15026

9:39 PM

@spugsley protects you from the pls by distracting you with cupcakes

spugsley

@AshleyNunn at least someone still loves me ;.;

Koviko

@Alok Just that I thought complexity excused some bugs

user15026

@spugsley psh, of course I do

Koviko

Anyway, gf is dragging me out of the house. Adios, Bridge.

fbueckert

@James I fail to see the "value" they try so hard to play up.

Alok

9:40 PM

@spugsley SOMEONE EXPLAIN THESE MEMES to me. And why you're in most of them, other than Wipqozn

spugsley

@AshleyNunn also, I didn't make to the post office today but I haven't forgotten about you :p

fbueckert

It's just a weak excuse to include the DRM.

James

@fbueckert Yeah.. I mean.. I multibox World of Warcraft so I DONT have to play it with other people :D

spugsley

@Alok apparently, it's fun to torture me for some reason? Idk why

James

Go figure :D

user15026

9:40 PM

@spugsley haha no worries, it's not like I am going to be like NO YOU EVIL WOMAN WHY U NO SEND ME BOOKS THAT I DONT HAVE TO PAY FOR

James

I just assume I am not their target market though, even though I will play the game.

spugsley

@Alok and @Wipqozn is in them because everything is his fault. You really should read the FAQs.

James

@AshleyNunn And yet you found a way to say exactly that but hidden in a clever joking manner... Hmmm

spugsley

@James lol

fbueckert

The FAQ doesn't actually state everything is @Wipqozn's fault. THAT is @Wipqozn's fault.

4

user15026

9:41 PM

@James how dare you doubt my niceness.

Alok

@spugsley lol I know that meme already; and I do think it should be in the list too.

James

@spugsley Careful, I am smelling evil mastermind !!! :D

spugsley

@fbueckert exactly!

Wipqozn

@Alok Because I'm popular.

user15026

@Wipqozn it's because you are a tortoise and they are awesome.

RedRiderX

9:42 PM

I hear that some people here are into Raspberry Pi, so here is this: Android 4.0 is coming to Raspberry Pi

Alok

@Wipqozn And here I was avoiding the @ so a certain tortoise could have peace with less pings

fbueckert

@spugsley Y'know, I could throw a City of Heroes reference in here and say everything's a Nemesis plot.

user15026

@RedRiderX I only like the pie I can eat :P

spugsley

@Alok why do you bother trying to be nice to @Wipqozn? You do know that he's the worst, right?

Wipqozn

I think Wipqozn's Law of Gravitation is the best meme.

11

A: The Memes of Arqade and its Chat

Meme: Wipqozn's law of gravitation. Every topic on The Bridge, must, inevitably, eventually return to Minecraft and TF2. Originator: Wipqozn Cultural height: Whenever there's an active conversation on The Bridge Background: http://chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/1228881#1228881

RedRiderX

9:43 PM

@AshleyNunn Fair enough.

Alok

@spugsley But he doesn't punch babies!

RedRiderX

@Wipqozn btw, Minecraft 1.3.1 is out.

James

9

A: The Memes of Arqade and its Chat

Meme: QA Originator: The love of puns. Cultural Height: June 12th, when the site name 'Arqade' and new design were published. Background: Badp thought he was being oh, so clever. Now look what you've done. Half the chat has changed their name to include 'QA' in it somewhere.

spugsley

@Alok I DON'T PUNCH BABIES! I DON'T KNOW HOW THIS STARTED!

James

I was thinking of doing that one but becoming JQAmes seemed.. odd :)

user15026

9:44 PM

I am glad most of my personal chaos flies under the radar so I don't get meme-ified

James

@AshleyNunn Ill try and not peek under the covers any more ;)

user15026

@James ...you were peeking under my covers? O.o Explains the draft.

spugsley

@AshleyNunn O-o Oh my

fbueckert

meme-fying me is usually not a good idea; I break shit.

Alok

@spugsley Which is why, I said that I'm lost about all the memes and need someone to explain them :(. I think the only babies I hit are Annie, Lulu & Nunu in lol (well, kids not babies though)

user15026

9:45 PM

@spugsley Hey, he started it!

James

ROFL: Cultural Height: Whenever someone feels like trolling Gnomeslice.

@AshleyNunn o.O

user15026

@James You said it not me.

spugsley

@fbueckert Also, be proud of me! I drank two bottles of water and did some fucking pilates! WHOOOO

and it was hard!

James

@AshleyNunn Hmm, Maybe Ill not pull back the curtains? Clean the lenses? Turn on the Lights? Open a window? Yeah most of these are all along the same lines, LOL

fbueckert

@spugsley I'm gonna go drink some booze, help out with dancing for several hours, drink some more wine, and then collapse into happy, exhausted sleep. :P

spugsley

9:47 PM

@fbueckert nice!

user15026

@James lol I think you are doomed.

user15026

@fbueckert That strikes me as a really good plan :P

James

@AshleyNunn That I am fairly certain of ;)

fbueckert

@spugsley Probably looking at three hours of dancing or so. Roughly. Gonna be SO tired.

spugsley

@fbueckert wow and I thought my 30 minutes of pilates was soul crushing. O-o

James

9:49 PM

@fbueckert 3 solid hours or 3 hours during which it will take place

fbueckert

@spugsley That's just today. Probably another two tomorrow, three Friday, and some more on Sunday.

@James Probably 7-10PM.

James

@fbueckert My question was related more to how much of the allotted time was spent actually dancing vs observing dancing and instructing dancing and correcting dancing :)

fbueckert

@James Uh...I dunno. I'm sweating pretty freely about an hour in. And today's nothing compared to practice tomorrow.

The Waltz practice takes roughly 20 minutes before I'm sweating and just wanna stop.

James

Why do all the people who have effing offices decide to have all their conversations out in among the rest of us whom are attempting to work?

RedRiderX

@James Get earmuffs.

fbueckert

9:54 PM

@spugsley Also, my veins are coffee. I drink that when I'm thirsty, no matter how hot I am.

spugsley

@James because they see you chatting with us instead of working? :p

jk

@fbueckert I have been forcing myself to drink water. I hate it. I hate it so much

Alok

@spugsley Try flavored water (e.g. Hint Watermelon)

RESPAWN

Dancing for 3 hours does not sound like my idea of a fun night. Sorry @fbueckert

Then again. I get to help a friend move tonight since he won't pay for a few extra days on his lease like a normal person.

102 outside the last time I checked. :(

After today I don't think I'm going to help somebody move again.

Seriously, most of my friends are grown ups with grown up jobs now. They can afford to hire movers.

James

@RedRiderX I bought a nice set of headphones, they gave me hives :P

@spugsley I do not think most of the people in the office can see thsi far :P

RedRiderX

@James I think that does not qualify as a "nice" set of headphones.

fbueckert

9:59 PM

Well, regardless, I'm back out the door! Be back in something like five hours or so.

RESPAWN

@James Actually, I was about to ask how you managed to mask your recreational browser activities if you weren't in an office. LOL.

James

@RedRiderX ... Most people do consider Bose noise canceling headphones as nice though...

RESPAWN

@fbueckert Have fun!

James

@RESPAWN I get my work done as expected so people do not bug me :D

RESPAWN

@James Ah. There's definitely something to be said for that.

RedRiderX

10:00 PM

@James Yes, I've heard many good things about Bose. Right up until now that is.

RESPAWN

Although a lot of work places wouldn't care. I've worked places before where the rule was look busy, even if you're not.

James

@RedRiderX I am allergic to some chemical used in finishing or cleaning surfaces.. No idea what it is, but I have learned to spot reactions to it sooner rather than later :D

I am just waiting for the material to finish evaporating and Ill give the headset another go

RedRiderX

@James Yeah industrial chemicals aren't always the safest. :P

Ronan Forman

I just realised that I'm not meeting my mana face quota.

RedRiderX

@RonanForman No, no you are not.

But I wasn't in chat what Mana-face was big, so I didn't really notice. :P

Wipqozn

10:30 PM

@RedRiderX Those were the days...

Oct 23 '11 at 17:16, by Ronan Forman

Lazers

0

Q: does fortification buff ammo powers?

Since fortification is under combat powers, if I pick power synergy which gives 20% power damage , does it buffs ammo powers like incendiary or disruptor? Thanks

mass-effect-3

Ronan Forman

10:56 PM

If I die that's what I'll be remembered for, and it sickens me.

Wipqozn

@RonanForman It's true.

user2334

Does this answer look credible:

user2334

4

A: What is the chance of paralysis on an enchanted weapon?

According to UESP, the chance of paralysis on a weapon enchanted with Paralysis effect is 25%. Source: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Enchanting_Effects#Weapon_Effects I have confirmed the 25% number with empirical testing. Here is my Test Data: Number of Hits between Paralysis: Giant: 3 1...

Lazers

0

Q: Dual wield damage calculation

I've seen other similar posts on this, but still have some questions. In this formula: *((1 + passive skill boosts)(Weapon 1 average damage + ((minimum damage bonus + maximum damage bonus)/2))(Weapon Damage Multipliers)(Attack Spee)(1 + ( crit% * crit damage %))( 1 + (main stat / 100))(average ...

diablo-3

0

Q: How long will XBox360 games be supported via XBoxLIVE once the next-gen XBox is released?

I know that original XBox games were still active and supported via XBoxLIVE after the launch of the XBox360 launch. Was there a published End Of Life at that time? Can we surmise they will announce this with the launch of the next-gen XBox?

xbox-360

Wipqozn

@MarkTrapp It has numbers and a link, it must be credible.

user2334

11:05 PM

@Wipqozn I'm sold! Eh, I'll wait until tomorrow to award the bounty, though. Still sad to see the other answer keep getting up votes when it's already been called out as not correct

user2334

@Lazers Also, should be closed

Fredy31

11:27 PM

crashes through @mana.

Lazers

0

Q: What is the objective of Silvershard Mine?

After waiting in the queue for a while I finally entered the new Silvershard Mine Battleground. The Alliance was already losing at this point so I didn't really get a chance to figure things out from the start and everything was very hectic. I gathered that it has to do with the carts that spaw...

world-of-warcraft

-1

Q: how to get lots of C4, stelth boys, and grenades

I'm attacked by everything i need to get a way from everything with splash damage perk start throwing grenade everywhere.

fallout-new-vegas

0

Q: LAN server isnt working

My lan server wont let my cousin join me or me join my cousin it s=wont show up on the multiplayer screen it keeps saying scanning for lan servers but it never find it. i am at his house and we use diffrent computers but it wont connect. how can i fix this?

minecraft

Transcript for