The Bridge

Arda Xi

20:02

:97179 No it isn't. SE was designed for 'Answer once, read many'.

the fact it's possible doesn't mean it shouldn't be avoided

Quite a controversial question

C. Ross

That sounds pretty S&A to me ...

Ivo Flipse

fixed it :)

Arda Xi

it isn't really, it might be listful, but it's definitely answerable

:97269 You took over the question :P

@CRoss do only goblins siege?

Ivo Flipse

took over? I made a question out of it

C. Ross

:97286 Humans and elves also, but only if you sufficiently anger them.

Kobolds don't seige

they just annoy you to death

Arda Xi

20:14

:97292 I know, I didn't mean it was bad :)

Ivo Flipse

and actually I was pretty decent at making money

my worst scheme was buying up all the +healing food on raiding nights

and putting them back in at a very large premium

while fishing them myself

or even not putting them in the AH, but selling them in the Trade channel

made an Alt guild called Fish'R'Us

C. Ross

That's good business there

congratulations, you understand supply and demand

Arda Xi

:97318 that's borderline evil

McKay

:97206 Joel stated that the system was designed to adapt to a better answer coming along.

Ivo Flipse

and I would use my profit to start doing it on other scarce items :P

Arda Xi

20:20

:97340 Of course, but it isn't meant for "answer many, read many"

C. Ross

Ivo! you were playing DrugWars in WoW ...

Arda Xi

it might work for questions that are updated once or twice, but not with questions whose answers are valid for a couple of weeks tops

McKay

You think the top paid player changes every couple of weeks?

at a maximum?

Arda Xi

:97352 I think the public information on that subject will, yes

McKay

Well, I think I disagree with you on that fact.

Sure, it could, but I don't think it would.

tzenes

20:22

Ok, I'm back

Arda Xi

:97359 Well... if Joel stated that, I can't imagine it meaning that a question would eventually (after maybe years, if you are so inclined) ending up with like 20 different/edited answers all referring to a different timeframe

Ivo Flipse

welcome back @tzenes

tzenes

@Arda in established sports like Baseball the top paid player changes every could years. Historically, in gaming, it changes once a decade.

McKay

/agree with tzenes

But I think in basketball, it's still Michael Jordan, even though he's retired (if you count sponsorships, which is where most of the big money comes from)

Ivo Flipse

/nodinagreement tzenes

we need emoticons or what not here :P

McKay

20:28

/disagree ivo

:D

Ivo Flipse

do we really need a question for every single gaming term?

Arda Xi

:97409 If people have questions about them

McKay

/agree @ArdaXi

Ivo Flipse

I'd prefer to see only a couple, not a question for just one single term

C. Ross

/agree ArdaXi

Ivo Flipse

20:29

what does 'foo bar' mean?

Arda Xi

we used to agree by starring questions

C. Ross

that's not a gaming term

Arda Xi

:97418 off-topic, also there's no space

Ivo Flipse

it's just an example

Arda Xi

:)

McKay

20:30

:97420 /agree

Arda Xi

gimme ze shinies!

3

by the way, I added an FAQ section to the DF tagwiki, anyone have any more ideas?

McKay

Maybe have a Favorite Asked Questions too? like those with awesome titles?

Or "Awesomely Asked Questions"?

Ivo Flipse

yeah, I would add that

Arda Xi

Honourable mentions

3

McKay

Sure

Arda Xi

20:34

will do

nobody ever reads them anyway

Ivo Flipse

until you start referring to them liberally

and if there's content, the UI will get fixed for it, I'm sure of it

C. Ross

good work @ArdaXi, and I read it when I copied and pasted it into the answer for "What is dwarf fortress?"

Arda Xi

:97447 aren't a lot of those for DF I think

couldn't find one really, added anyway

McKay

There was one about being lonely? Like no one comes to visit?

I think nethack has the highest number of those kinds of questions.

Ah, you've got that one.

Maybe DF computer is honorable mention? Not an awesome title though. /me is a fan of meta computers.

Arda Xi

:97507 Once someone makes a game run on itself, I'll be impressed :D

Ivo Flipse

20:52

Man comes up with his best ideas in the shower. If only man had showered more, we’d have hover-boards and mind-controlled TV.

Tweeted by OldSpice on August 17, 2010 at 8:51 PM

C. Ross

ok, that is awesome

Ivo Flipse

thank @Oldspice I just took a shower, I'm awesome

tzenes

21:11

know what question I keep having: should something be CW?

like this question:

4

Q: Monday Night Combat Blitz Strategy

I need some help beating Blitz mode on the Xbox 360 arcade game Monday Night Combat. Any tips would be much appreciated! Which turret is best to put out on the field? And where? What classes would be best to choose? What skills to upgrade? How many players is optimal? I know it gets tougher the...

He's asking for a strategy, which I guess there isn't one answer to

but I don't see how CW makes this better

strategies will be offered, they'll be voted on, hopefully one will stand out above others

Ivo Flipse

I actually think it shouldn't have been CW

there may be more strategies, but there probably won't be dozens

tzenes

well, if this shouldn't be CW what should?

Ivo Flipse

and he only has to accept the one that works

tzenes

what's the cannonical example of a CW

Ivo Flipse

originally CW was meant for questions where multiple users would work on the same answer(s)

because others contributed, it was deemed unfair to give rep to the OP

tzenes

21:14

I guess in our case, if we're over 2k rep, we can do that anyway

can you give me a gaming.se question that SHOULD be CW? that isn't game-rec

because I think all game-rec should be deleted

McKay

:97630 gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/5674/…

?

tzenes

Isn't that just a list?

shouldn't it just be closed?

actually, I take it back

Ivo's answer is perfect

Ivo Flipse

well if I still played wow I would generate numbers for you

tzenes

why would we want more answers?

Ivo Flipse

but I can't and it will depend on the servers AH

tzenes

21:16

why isn't just upvoting it and eventually selecting it correct?

why CW

Ivo Flipse

google.nl/…

tzenes

I guess any time I see CW I either think: Not CW or Vote to Close

Ivo Flipse

crap

try that query

tzenes

I see a lot of closed questions and questions that I voted to close

Arda Xi

"Should be made cw. There are too many to count"

exactly, almost all are list of x

Ivo Flipse

21:20

gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/477/hidden-gems-of-xbla

this should be closed

Arda Xi

I was just thinking the same thing

tzenes

yeah

The best question on this google query is the easy to level in wow question

and that's not CW

Ivo Flipse

no the query just spots questions that should be converted :P

found one to close by it :P

tzenes

I'm going to ask on meta

Ivo Flipse

gaming.stackexchange.com/search?q=wiki:1+closed:0

Arda Xi

21:24

I've said this many times before, but I still don't see the point of CW, at all

Ivo Flipse

here's all CW questions that aren't closed

Arda Xi

CW is just an excuse: "I know I shouldn't ask this question, but I made it CW so it should be alright!"

Ivo Flipse

hmmm no it doesn't work

tzenes

@Ivo that didn't work

Arda Xi

gaming.stackexchange.com/search?q=wiki:1+closed:0

Ivo Flipse

21:25

yeah I edited my link too

1

Q: Some examples of iPhone / iPod Touch multiplayer strategy game?

I'm always looking for good multiplayer strategy games to buy for my iPod Touch. Anybody have a relatively unknown game that they find fun?

strategy iphone multiplayer ipod-touch apple

kill

Arda Xi

are you going to do that for every one in that query?

Ivo Flipse

4

Q: Free console-like games for PC

I like to kick back and spend some time playing games every once in a while. I have a console controller that I can hook up to my PC via USB so I have the ability to play games on my PC. I am just looking for a list of free console-like (controller compatible) games for the PC. I want to avoid ...

pc virtual-console free

Arda Xi

guess so

Ivo Flipse

6

Q: LAN Party Games

I am having a LAN party with group of about 10 people. What are some good games to play that are available on the cheap, but still fun for multiplayer? The caveat here is that no everyone is on real modern hardware, so I am looking for ideas that don't include the newest games on the market. ...

pc multiplayer local-multiplayer

and I actually disagree with Jeff here

2

Q: What are some multiplayer android games that are not *SLOW* turn based games ?

By slow, I mean 1 day+ for other players to submit their move. I'm looking more for games that are real-time, i'm not sure if they would be networked by bluetooth or over a regular tcp/ip connection. Like a tennis or soccer game for example. They don't have to be sports. Even a turn based ga...

game-rec multiplayer real-time-strategy android

Arda Xi

my concern with any list questions is the conflicting policies

Ivo Flipse

21:28

man I find them all crap

we simply don't want these questions

Arda Xi

We don't want general questions because they garner too many questions

We don't want specific questions because they're not relevant to a general audience

I meant to say answers there

tzenes

:97712 agreed

Ivo Flipse

yes, though you'd have to be VERY specific to be TOO specific

while you're too broad very quickly

starring that query @ArdaXi, so I can kill more later

Arda Xi

:97728 most browsers have bookmarks ;-)

Ivo Flipse

I think this question is a nice CW example @tzenes: gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/2900/…

until I can search them better, I hate my bookmarks

Arda Xi

21:31

:97726 depends, not a lot of people will have a LAN party of 10 people with old hardware

tzenes

@Ivo really?

Arda Xi

:97730 Might be, but it's still 100% tzenes so I don't see the point of making it CW really

Ivo Flipse

and this one, although it was only maintained by one person: gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/4016/…

but I have to massage my GF now, so bbl

tzenes

@Ivo the problem with the pro/con question is I couldn't do sub headings

but even though its CW, NOONE HAS EDITED MY ANSWERS. Instead they post comments and I edit them

Arda Xi

woah @tzenes you're insane.. that's a lot of answer

tzenes

21:33

yeah, I really like starcraft

it used to all be 1 answer

but I broke i up

Arda Xi

even as 1 answer, it'd be a lot of answer

tzenes

Well I didn't want the question devolving into a list of X

so I tried to write a complete answer

because if it was just 20 people listing pros and cons, I'd have voted to close

Arda Xi

a bit of an abuse of the SE system, but nice nonetheless

and people can vote on their favourite race :D

tzenes

Well I think what the question is trying to ask is, how should I choose which race to play

and I think the break down I made helps answer that question

Arda Xi

true, it does

C. Ross

21:52

anyone know how I can test the following?

1

A: Starcraft - Does the AI Cheat?

What is more important is that they get more minerals. The data from what I just searched for: 5 > 7 minerals a trip 4 > 6 gas per trip If you ever play with an AI ally, you'll find that it's absolutely impossible to replicate their opening builds.

tzenes

@Cross there is no guaranteed test in SC1

Ah, I should say in unmodified SC1

you could hack the mpq to spit out the value of all player's minerals to DirectX

You could count the number of trips and do the math (with a lot of pausing), but that doesn't guarantee they're bringing more, only that the AI is getting more.

C. Ross

that would be the point, if they're getting more than I can

tzenes

You could count the minerals they harvest, add them up and subtract what they build

but as long as they don't spend more than they would have, there is no proof

its possible they only exhibit such behavior at points in the game where it is intractable

McKay

You could watch how much the mineral patches are decreasing by?

A negative test wouldn't prove they don't get extra minerals, but a positive test would essentially prove they do get extra minerals.

tzenes

well, they could be removing the same amount but getting more.

McKay

22:03

Yes, that's precisely what I mean about the negative test.

tzenes

right, I was agreeing

McKay

yeah

:97830 The other, much harder way is what you mention here.

Other than that, I can't think of anything else (without hacking)

Ivo Flipse

22:21

@tzenes regarding you meta question

tzenes

?

Ivo Flipse

people who comment instead of edit are either 1) lazy or 2) too low rep to edit it

tzenes

on CW? doesn't everyone have edit?

Ivo Flipse

or 3) unaware of the possibility to do so

well, I thought there still was a limit

tzenes

I have no clue

Ivo Flipse

22:22

100 Edit community wiki posts

and that's with our lowered standards for rep

tzenes

ah

Ivo Flipse

and your second example (gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/5473/…)

is non-CW

so people can't go editing, unless they have the mod rights/rep to do so

tzenes

clearly, but its a case where people are writing better answers

so should it have become CW?

Ivo Flipse

yes, that it is

no

tzenes

So then what is the purpose of CW?

Ivo Flipse

22:25

to enable users to edit or take credit for that answer

if the answer is already good, than it's not needed

tzenes

:97918 ???

As I understand it, the purpose is collaboration

but in both the cases I found were people were collaborating, noone was leveraging the CW

Ivo Flipse

well the collaboration here is very small

hang on I'll look up a nice SO example

(if I can)

tzenes

please

I just want a good Canonical Example

FallenAngelEyes

I think that'd be "canonical," otherwise you're wanting something about cannons...

tzenes

thanks, though that would be interesting too

Ivo Flipse

22:30

147

Q: Language Books/Tutorials for popular languages

It wasn't that long ago that I was a beginning coder, trying to find good books/tutorials on languages I wanted to learn. Even still, there are times I need to pick up a language relatively quickly for a new project I am working on. The point of this post is to document some of the best tutoria...

programming-languages books tutorials

FallenAngelEyes

Haha, it would indeed

Ivo Flipse

here people added and added and added (or edited if you will)

Arda Xi

the only thing I can think of CW would be useful for is if the answerer would for some reason not deserve the rep

makes people less likely to answer really

FallenAngelEyes

anyway, upvoted on the CW question cuz I have no freakin clue either when CW should be used

Arda Xi

:97946 that's more of an article than a question

Ivo Flipse

22:31

does that make it bad @ArdaXi?

Arda Xi

:97965 not necessarily

tzenes

So basically, any otherwise borderline question

in a world with harsher moderation there would be no need for CW

Arda Xi

I don't think a question that should be considered for closing should be handled any differently as CW

:97980 we're already kinda harsh

tzenes

Necessarily so, we have a larger userbase with a lower average expertise

Ivo Flipse

well we all know we use CW to at least prevent users from gaining rep on borderline questions

FallenAngelEyes

22:35

From what I have observed use wise is that CW is (intended) more for collaboration without emphasis on a best answer

I think, at least

Arda Xi

Questions on any SE site should always have a best answer

FallenAngelEyes

then I'm completely lost on the point of CW

tzenes

I guess I'm just disapointed

Ivo Flipse

I guess the use case is to allow answering open ended questions

tzenes

I had hoped that CW existed for some good reason, but really its just a way to protect subjective answers

Ivo Flipse

22:39

but I'm not sure if we should want those

anyway I'm off for tonight

see you in 9 hours

when I get back with more Python questions

FallenAngelEyes

Well for stuff like strategy questions, couldn't those be candidates for CW?

That's what I'd assumed we'd use it for, but doesn't seem to be much in use that way so far

tzenes

@FallenAngelEyes look at the examples that have been set for strategy questions

The truth is any bad question can be turned into a good one by a very good answer

but if such a good answer doesn't come along apparently we make it CW

its like admitting our system is flawed...

FallenAngelEyes

Hm

I don't have the brainpower to examine this any further at the moment. I do agree that the guidelines for CW use are fuzzy/nonexistent. I'll be interested to see the responses tomorrow.

For now, need to pass out, have a good night everyone!

tzenes

good night

Arda Xi

yeah, I'm gonna go comatose for a few hours too, good night

tzenes

22:45

later

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