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15:00
No you expressed you couldn't imagine how someone would get by without using it
:83500 which can be called a resonable conclusion.
it is possible, there for, that you don't use it, and don't get by
:83502 sure, but it's an insult nonetheless
well if you find it insulting to consider DT cheating I can't stop you
I could lie and say I don't consider it cheating, but that would just be a lie, and misrepresenting myself
which in some context might be considered cheating
not saying it isn't lying
nportelli
15:01
Nerds fighting on the internet....= amusing.
"I don't use it" would've been sufficient
and would've saved us about an hour
a lie of omission
you could've said "which, in my opinion, feels like cheating for me"
oh, so I have to tell you my entire life story or I'm lying?
:83509 being one is even more amusing
@alexanderpas I don't think cheating is a matter of opinion, so that is also a lie
but let's say I had phrased it that way
15:03
:83516 there is no one definition, how could it not be
do you think he would be less offended
I'm offensive? what?
@ArdaXi I don't believe that's true, only that wikipedia didn't have it
nportelli
Hey I never claimed I'm not a nerd. I'm in a chat room for gaming....
15:03
:83522 why haven't you given that definition the 7 times I've asked you then?
:83250 just ignore that.
:83528
:83521 so then would you have me say: "I think that what you are doing is cheating, but it is only my opinion?"
lol
Had to happen :P
the thing is @ArdaXi that his day is just starting and that you will be the one in the picture
15:05
:83533 I have a section of my brain dedicated to XKCD comics for every situation
:83534 where did you get the idea that I didn't intend that
because I tried a not dissimilar argument, where I said "What does it matter if I think you're a cheater or anyone else?"
it was intended to be me, not him
:83531 no, more like you feel you're cheating yourself.
:83541 that you felt the need to express it
@alexanderpas how so?
15:06
cheating on yourself, is that like using your left, instead of your right hand?
So, whats the issue here?
I tried reading back, but i see acronyms. Guessing DF is Dwarf-Fortress?
:83547 I don't know anymore
:83548 yes, DT is dwarf therapist
Does DT come with the game?
@Noctrine I think Dwarf Therapist is a form of Cheating
no, it's a seperate utility
15:07
now Arda took offense at this, which was not my goal at the time
"at the time"? You've since changed your mind?
IMO: If it isn't a part of the game, or if its a part of the game called a cheat in game) then its a cheat.
so we had a lengthy discussion about what constitutes cheating, and whether or not it is
:83555 I took offense at being called a cheater, eventually repeatedly
So whats the issue?
15:08
DF comes bundled with the game in the LAZY NEWB PACK, but is a seperate utility, by seperate developpers.
:83557 I have not now, nor ever called Arda a cheater, or thought of him as one
:83560 that he doesn't want to concede that it is not a fact that I am cheating
as you said, in your opinion
nportelli
Sounds like @tzenes needs to quit playing DF and work on his people skills and for @ArdaXi to let it slide, lol'
I think cheating has a hard definition
@ArdaXi do you care on how his opinion is on you.
15:09
as in concrete, not difficult
@alexanderpas we had that conversation too
it has a concrete definition which you've yet to state completely.
?
:83573 why haven't you given it then, in the 8 times I've asked it
Yes @McKay I was building it from first principals when we got derailed
Is DF a competitive multiplayer game?
Is DT a tool to screw someone else?
@Noctrine no
it merely automates a part of the game
15:11
Sooo
@Noctrine we're not talking about competition. We're talking about game cheating. Which @tzenes thinks is implicit, yet confuses.
I would say its the equivilent of using glider
:83562 You said you have, eg here
I don't see the issue then
DT does not automate, it changes output format.
15:11
I mean, I see it. But I don't know why it is an issue
I said if you did not like that fact, not that it was true
:83596 you said "that I think you're a cheater"
:83594 we had this conversation already, it reduces the human intervention that is necessary
If Arda is doing something to improve his/her enjoyment of the game that doesn't effect other people then does it really matter?
literal quote this time
15:12
:83597 I said you don not like it, not that you were correct in your assumption
:83599 I don't believe it does, and I said as much earlier
:83601 you still said "that I think you're a cheater"
nportelli
@tzenes then why would you call someone out as a cheater?
I bet no-one uses something like glider in single player games, because it makes the game less fun.
I did not call him out as a cheater
nportelli
Other than to be contrary that is
15:13
I said I consider the use of DT cheating
nportelli
Yes you did, lol.
So it's a moral highground kinda thing?
no, merely giving the reason I don't use it
as that was the discussion topic at the time
@tzenes I'm curious, why have you agreed with the fact you thought of me as a cheater before, but only started saying otherwise about 10 minutes ago
Alright then
New topic :)
15:15
@Arda I don't think of you as a cheater
This won't get anywhere >>
we were discussing what other peoples opinions ment to you
:83617 that's not an answer
:83618 this is a new topic :)
as far as I was concerned such discussion was hypothetical
:83619 but you never said that you didn't think I was a cheater before, while I had said that
which reinforced my conclusion
15:16
I don't think your characteristic personality is a cheater. That doesn't mean you don't cheat. Since our discussion was on the topic of whether DT was cheating, it didn't seem relvent
@tzenes apologize for calling @ArdaXi a cheater (even indirectly), @ArdaXi, apologize for being offended by @tzenes statements. Afterwards CHANGE OF TOPIC
nportelli
Anyone play Deathspnk? I love that game.
@nportelli its alright, I kinda got bored with it
Gnoupi
are we done with the cheating topic?
@Gnoupi probably not
Gnoupi
15:17
:83630 now if only they would port it to PC...
:83632 hope so.
nportelli
@tzenes did you cheat?
@nportelli on my taxes
Is anyone else seeing perm. down arrows?
Gnoupi
that's my problem, currently, there are great little games on XBLA and PSN, and I can't play them, since I have only PC/DS/PSP
15:18
I think I cheated when I played through the campaign of Broodwars, but I can't remember now
@Gnoupi buy one? they're not expensive
nportelli
PSN is dangerous, to many cool games to buy
:83649 did you do it to have more fun?
One of the best ones is on PC now.
Geometry Warss!!!
nportelli
$300 isn't expensive? I wish I thought that
@alexanderpas no, there was no fun to be had, I did it so I could hear the story
@nportelli you can get a 360 arcade for $100
Gnoupi
15:19
:83660 but would an arcade version be enough for downloadable games?
nportelli
I used to want a 360, don't anymore.
compared to a new computer $500-$1500, I'd say that's not expensive
I want the slim 360
@Gnoupi the arcade version is the same as any other version the only thing different is the accessories
@Noctrine I have one, its awesome
Can cheating to have more fun and without harm be considered good? in my opinion, yes!
15:20
they're so quiet
@alexanderpas I agree with you
:83667 KOTOR & GTA have 0 replay value without cheats for me.
I don't consider cheating to be inherently negative
Gnoupi
the problem is that besides little games, I'm not interested in console games in general. So it's hard to justify to myself buying a console, only for the arcade/indie games
nportelli
Does GTA have any value at all?
Gnoupi
:83665 but isn't the extra hd in these accessories?
15:21
@Gnoupi there are some good consol games
so someone who cheats to have more fun is not a cheater in the negative sense of the word?
:83674 Catharsis
:83675 yes, but you can use a usb memory stick to the sam effect
:83678 I don't think cheating is a negative thing outside of a relationship
nportelli
@Noctrine Catharsis?
Gnoupi
:83677 I agree with that, but they don't appeal to me, or are ported on PC most of the time
15:22
:83686 Darksiders
Ubisoft games :p
Crackdown
Dynasty warriors
Gnoupi
:83687 coming to PC
nportelli
Does 360 have normal usb ports? I was surprised Sony condoned upgrading the hardrive on PS3's
:83685 Stress Release
It does
15:23
@Gnoupi is it? when?
Gnoupi
and I have difficulties with FPS on gamepad (nothing against them, I'm just bad at aiming with it)
:83692 it does
Catharsis or katharsis () is a Greek word meaning "cleansing" or "purging". It is derived from the verb , kathairein, "to purify, purge," and it is related to the adjective , katharos, "pure or clean." Dramaturgical uses Catharsis is the emotional cleansing of the audience and/or characters in a play. In relation to drama it is an extreme change in emotion resulting from strong feelings of sorrow, fear, pity, or laughter; this result has been described as a purification or a purging of such emotions (whether those of the characters in the play or of the audience). More recently such t...
:83696 you get used to it quickly
Gnoupi
:83702 I guess, but I prefer a mouse for this anyway. Just a matter of personal choice
15:24
The PS3 Harddrive is a laptop HD. And the 360 one just uses a nonstandard port. I think with a bit of hacking you can use any HD.
:83705 The mouse is the reason we will never have 360 vs PC FPS games
nportelli
Should have to hack it. And it is a 2.5" drive too
Nice
you should pick it up, it was an awesome gamme
Darksiders was good?
It seemed like DMC/GoW in slowmo
Gnoupi
15:26
anyway, no reason to complain for console games, I barely have time for PC ones as it is
Gnoupi
just cause 2, worms coming soon, elemental, civ5...
The good thing about being behind in my gaming is when I catch up everything is 1/2 price.
Darksiders is closer to Ocerina than GoW
Gnoupi
Not in the UK ><
Gnoupi
15:28
they list digital ones also
alright, I've got to go to work
see you all later
oh and do your civic duty. Vote to close:
8
Q: Roguelike for Android?

SeamusAre there any roguelike games available for the Android OS?

What does Rougelike mean?!
14
Q: What attributes makes a game a Roguelike?

MechkoI always assumed that a roguelike was a nethack-esque game with ascii graphics, but apparently there is more to it than that. Note that I never actually played nethack and all I know about it is that is an rpg. So what makes a game a roguelike?

Yeah, had just seen the wikipedia article. Got a question about making games like that on GD
Gnoupi
:83734 why vote to close? it's narrow, and specific
15:32
yeah, I agree
that's why I didn't vote in the first place
Gnoupi
seems like you are entering the "sick of the rec questions", and starting to vote to close all on sight.
Gnoupi
in Gaming on Meta Stack Overflow Chat, Aug 10 at 19:12, by Mana
Each day I mow my lawn so that it says GAME REC in large letters, and then set fire to it
Gnoupi
I have seen that on SU, when the regular users (me included) got sick of the "must have" questions, and wanted to close all of them. Truth is, after a month or two, you barely have them anymore, so just wait for it to pass
Food times
15:51
just had food, the wraps were nice.
:83722 the bad thing is that you buy too much because it half price,and keep lagging behind.
16:07
thank @tzenes / god the drama stopped
Gnoupi
I will write about game deals on this chat, when I see one interesting, in general. This one is maybe a bit old (Phantasmagoria), but someone could like: gog.com/en/newsletter/phantasmagoria_promo
[closed as off-topic]
gaming.stackexchange.com is not the place for shopping advice!
yeah, chat is good for that, already did it with the steam quakecon pack.
:83780 It takes me no time to beat a game, the bad thing is that I have an endless stream of work as a College Student, Employee at one company freelance developer for some startups and founder of my own :)
any product you want to plug @Noctrine?
16:16
Nada
Atleast, not just yet :p
lol \o/ lol \o/ lol
anything interesting to tell about your projects then?
Well, hoping to build a car with the automotive customization one. That's the biggest standout for me
what is THE automotive customization 'one'?
Ah, Stacked Automotive. A friend of mine started it to do various customizations for cars. Initially it was just to add computers to cars, and redo sound systems and stuff but we started doing Lamborghini doors and stuff too. There 'is' a website, but I'm ashamed of it, so not plugging it yet ;p
16:26
hehe, well when it's done, be sure to do so
But after awhile, it came up that outside of a few things we could build atleast the entire exterior of a car.
though plugging a picture, might not be so painful
Definitely will do
exterior? as in the body/platework?
Yeah
Currently trying to find a designer who can do something I like, then I'll order a drivetrain and build ontop of it.
16:28
something like this?
The old work that we did on his car, no pictures of the new interior yet thoughj.
:83875 I love that thing, but I don't think I can do that just yet. :p
I have returned
I logged on to gaming.se to ask a question
but then I found someone had already asked it
that made me feel good
16:44
@Jeff should also register that1level.com just like thatonelevel.com
did he decide that was going to be the name?
what did you try to ask @tzenes?
:83908 quicksave.com is in the lead, with 41 upvotes.
about starcraft 2 and lan
@Noctrine well that's a good one too
:83908 no, but it is the highest voted "free" domain currently.
16:48
I wonder how much they would sell it for
When people have been holding onto domains for 10 years, they aren't usually going to give it up for the cheap
I still think gameover.com would be better :P
well gamefaq's is the best probably
I like throwncontrols.com
so by registering thatonelevel.com he secured at least 1 popular choice.
but honestly I don't really care
@alexanderpas a prudent move
and yeah, you should get both thatonelevel and that1level
They got all of the top choices on GameDev
I wonder if they have any of the others on gaming
I think protip would have been the best one
16:53
@tzenes thanks for letting me learn a new english word.
:83944 Could use a better title
@alexanderpas purdent?
Kind of wish I had a throwaway Hacker News account for
27
Q: How to pray safely (to god)?

espaisCan somebody please give me a good overview of the prayer system in Nethack? From what I understand, pray once and your god is more than happy to help you out, but if you pray again you get punished pretty severely for being so needy. Basically, how does Nethack prayer work?

17:10
Would a question about where to find a hardcover carrying case for my xbox360 slim be inappropriate for gaming.se?
I think it would be appropriate
not if the answer will be Amazon.com :P
haha
no, sadly amazon doesn't carry that product
too bad, when will kinect go on sales with you guys?
november?
I don't know off hand
17:21
ah well, I'll just have to be patient
as with a lot of things :(
too bad I can't bring it over when I'm in the US
sorry
the official date is november 4th
I so want that technology with a better camera, for scientific use
using infrared camera's for motion analysis is way overpriced, so even with some really good HD cams, their technique would be very interesting
and they should definitely make a desktop version as well, as a webcam meets minority report
the three robot heads question needs a better title
17:56
that question should be closed
 
1 hour later…
19:24
time to watch some television, bbl
@Ivo is the stackedodds thing working for you?
 
1 hour later…
20:51
that's weird... DF crashed, but it managed to create a savegame right before it did
Downvoter
21:21
hi
21:33
hi
21:46
bye :)
bye :)
well.. that works for defenses, two levers that will stop any invaders :D
Oh hey, I never thought about how posting the test question would be fed out here.
hehe, well it didn't work @GraceNote ;)
Well, I got 3 users to do stuff! That's perfectly as much working as I could ask for
well, it wasn't made CW..
21:54
I didn't need you 3 to make it CW
I know, you were testing something
what were you testing anyway
To see if Community User can turn a question CW when closing as a duplicate.
I guess it helped you falsify a hypothesis ;)
Basically, Community edits the post body when you close as a duplicate. If at least 4 people edit a question 6 times, then it turns CW.
ah, right, the community user shouldn't count
21:56
interesting :)
and doesn't, as it seems
So I got 3 of you to edit the post, Community will be the 4th, and I'll just close/reopen the post a bunch of times. If it never turns CW after about 3-5 closings, then Community doesn't affect it
I knew I shouldn't argue with you anyway, any response from you would make my statements look insignificant ;P
wouldn't asking Jeff have been easier? :)
Where did you come to that conclusion from?
Research is more fun, @Arda
21:57
from the average level of quality of your replies and answers :-)
but I'm off for tonight, so enjoy your night shift!
22:36
no wonder all my dwarves are in a bad mood, I'm out of booze
23:02
Evening all
Evenin', @Fallen
How goes?
Not bad. You?
Pretty well, scanning the newest questions to see if there's any I can answer
23:23
I've earned more reputation in the past 3 days than I had accumulated during the entire rest of this beta.
You've made some good posts.
It's been a good week for me
Thank you
Congrats!
Thanks
5
Q: abandonware and legal issues with old C64 games

Stefano BoriniI recently opened a box of my old C64 games (on 5" 1/4 disks), and puzzled about how I could get them out to play on an emulator. I think the task is basically impossible, but I was left wondering... If I want to legally play these games, is taking out my old C64 the only solution (assuming it w...

Can we really give an answer to this? It's rather dependent on the location of the user and the laws of their country.
23:27
Mmm
Meta migration? Is that what we do?
No, Meta is for questions about the site
we've had some discussion here on it:
2
Q: What exactly does the law state about emulation and ROMs?

BaraI hear a lot about how emulation is not illegal or that downloading ROMs is legal in some circumstances and I would really like to know the truth about emulators and ROMs in relation to the law. For instance, I've heard that downloading emulators is fine, but downloading ROMs is not. If this is...

and here:
that was moved to Meta because we don't want legal questions at all on the parent site IIRC
10
Q: What's the official stance on console emulation?

John RudyThe way I see it, many of us enthusiasts are probably familiar with emulation and use emulators to play classic games. (I do, I'll readily admit.) However, it's also fairly likely that many cartridge/disc/tape/etc. rips for said emulators are ... well ... not 100% legal, at least in the U.S., an...

23:30
In general we don't want legal questions on the parent site. We also don't want legal questions on the Meta site unless we're talking about whether or not we can talk about legal questions.
Part of the conclusions we came to were that we couldn't really give legal advice
we should probably avoid these questions as per:
10
Q: Should we avoid all legal questions?

GnoupiOn Super User (and probably on others), legal questions are usually closed, or at least refrained. The simple reason is that we are not lawyers, we are computer users (and here, gamers). As such, we don't have the ability to answer such questions. These questions require the opinion of a qualifi...

@GraceNote wow, you're really the Jon Skeet of Gaming Meta
Can someone please explain who/what Jon Skeet is? It's this injoke that keeps coming up and I'm totally lost o_O
He's someone who knows everything about C#
Jon Skeet is the top user in SO. Expert at C#. Apparently does a lot of nested parentheses.
23:33
He's SO's Chuck Norris
His top status basically elevated him to memetic status within SO.
617
A: Jon Skeet Facts?

Jon SkeetThese are written in the third person so as not to disrupt the style of the thing. But hey, as we all know, Jon Skeet can make 1 == 3 anyway, so it makes no difference. Jon Skeet is immutable. If something's going to change, it's going to have to be the rest of the universe. Jon Skeet's additio...

If I learned to press enter one fraction of a second earlier, maybe I wouldn't sound so redundant
@GraceNote you do what you always do. answer later than me with a 100x better answer :)
(maybe that's exaggerated here, but it's what you usually do)
I never really thought of my posts as being that high quality. I always feel rant-ish
23:36
what's your meta rep?
They disabled /reputation, so I have to calculate last month + this month
2089 + 625
...wow @ that question
23:38
You can't see anyone else's reports like that. Not even diamonds can.
I know, I forgot
but erm, substitute your id
that should show you all your rep
?StartDate=2010-06-16&EndDate=2010-08-14
Or you could use addition and get 2714
true.. I'm a programmer, can you tell? :)
woah, does this constitute gaming at that point?
[Minecraft]
23:40
You haven't shown true programmer laziness until you've programmed your calculator to run addition programs by having you input two numbers instead of an equation
Minecraft is nuts
(and also has lava, iirc)
:84918 maybe when I get my graphical calculator in a couple weeks
Never seen/played Minecraft
don't like it personally, but it's quite popular lately
it's kind of infiniminer with DF influences
Had a question about the genre tag stuff. I swear I remember seeing a discussion in meta about not going out of the way to add genre tags unless they were relevant to the question.
3
A: What tag should be used for MMO questions?

alexanderpasI would suggest using [mmorpg] for those games instead of the combination of [mmo] and [rpg] for several reasons: The genre is largest subgenre in both rpg and mmo, being even bigger than the rest of the genre in the latter case. (There are more active mmorpg players than non-rpg mmo players) ...

alexanderpas mentioned that there as well in his answer
In regards to the answer that was posted here:
2
Q: When should we use genre tags?

antony.trupeShould every question about a game include a tag that fits it into one or more genres? Should we only use genre tags for game-rec and family questions? Should we not have any genre tags at all? I removed the roguelike tag from http://gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/5174/how-can-i-survive-ge...

Is it appropriate to go through and add genre tags to questions without them then?
23:50
1
A: Tagging Suggestions

alexanderpasWhile I have previously answered this question on meta actual usage in the private beta has seen some minimal problems with this type of tagging. The solution of this problem is to give more priority to the game name in the tags, going even as far as making it the most desired tag for questions ...

That was the partial stance form alexanderpas back when we started.
Looking at his posts, he has always stated "use genre for non-exact", but looking through the questions we have never actually made an official ruling on it
We only have 200 questions alive, so it's not too difficult to check all of them~
Aye, so I'm confused now...
I've always found the genre tag relevant as long as it wasn't intrusive and taking up space that would otherwise be needed for a useful tag
I agree, and I also agree on the point that it makes it easier for people to search for similarly tagged questions.
Should we go ahead and tag older questions that don't have the genre tags but have room for them though?
For starters, only if you're positive on the genre.
If it's a particularly large collection, it may be a good idea to spread the job out over some time.
I ask because I tend to have a lot of free time and I don't mind doing mundane crap other people don't want to do, if helps the site out
23:57
Diamonds can only do a conversion, not an addition, so I couldn't pull something like starcraft2 --> starcraft2+real-time-strategy
Glad to have people like you, then. I never did finish cleaning up the [language] tag on SO.

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