The Bridge

GnomeSlice

21:00

Oh I didn't realize this one was successfully funded on kickstarter

chroniclesofelyria.com

This is the one I just spoke about

Remains to be seen what is delivered

Axoren

Looks pretty.

GnomeSlice

Only about 1M in funding

Yuuki

I would love non-combat gameplay, but I just really don't like the idea of characters dying of old age.

GnomeSlice

It has that too, the way it works is every time you die you come back but aged

bertieb

One-person-is-king-in-an-MMO, isn't that EVE Online? :P

GnomeSlice

21:01

So if you die a shitload of times you use up your lifespan quickly

@bertieb heh. Yeah.

Yuuki

Look, I know I'm going to die sometime in the future. I'd rather not have to also contemplate mortality in my video games.

Axoren

Only 1M in funding? Dead on arrival.

GnomeSlice

Yea

Unless they pick up some investors

Yuuki

@Axoren Especially 1M for an MMO.

Axoren

Even low-tier KMMOs start with 3-6M

GnomeSlice

21:02

I haven't read up on it in a while I just assumed it was doomed to fail

Yuuki

MMOs, particularly MMORPGs, are expensive.

GnomeSlice

Yeet

Chronicles of Elyria - Epic Story MMORPG with Aging & Death, via @Kickstarter kickstarter.com/projects/soulboundstudios/…

bertieb

Jason Rohrer's thing is self-funded... but not sure it emrits the first'M' in MMO

GnomeSlice

Thx for the clipboard spam kickstarter

1.3M

Axoren

Weather? Interesting.

GnomeSlice

21:04

@Yuuki the idea is that the world is always changing so by the time you need a new char you have a different experience

Kind of a neat idea actually

Does anyone know if Everquest 3 is still going?

Axoren

All-in-all, this is too sandboxy and will fail immediately unless dedicated players stay engaged.

GnomeSlice

Their little tech demo thing Landmark was a pretty impressive starting point

But I'm pretty sure it died and I think so did dev progress on EQ 3

Yuuki

@GnomeSlice I play games so I can pretend to have made fake progression displayed with meaningless data that I "own" out of a need to ignore existential horror.

GnomeSlice

Hue

Yeah

Axoren

What MMOs really need is a style like Dark Souls

Characters shouldn't all start at Level 1

GnomeSlice

21:07

I wanna run around and kill everything in one hit

Axoren

Everyone should be sick of working their way up from smacking wolves

Yuuki

I'd rather not have a videogame character die out of old age and have nothing to show for it.

GnomeSlice

Characters in dark souls all pretty much start at the same level of ability

Axoren

@GnomeSlice BUT that level is not 1

GnomeSlice

@Yuuki you get a legacy idk

Yuuki

21:07

At least I can point out that my warlock is level 110 even though it has no significance.

Axoren

The zero point for player competence is below each player's starting point.

Meaning that you already start with enough competence to do whatever you wanted.

Yuuki

Instead, the hardest path is the one where while you are the highest level, you are also the poorest.

(wew go deprived runs)

It's a poignant lesson in the effects of socioeconomic stature.

Axoren

I think the biggest barrier to entry for MMOs is the stagnation before End-game and at Eng-game.

If every time someone joins, they're doing the exact same content as everyone else because they are seriously lacking character competence to do anything else, what's the point?

Yuuki

WoW is great for that if you're into raiding.

Axoren

And when you hit End-game, there has to be stuff for you to do, or there's no reason to have tried so hard to get here.

Yuuki

21:10

If you're not into raiding, then I don't know why you play WoW.

Axoren

A lot of KMMOs and the Cartoon-Sidescroller varieties of MMOs have since inception decided that a way to handle this was to increase EXP rate of pre-end game so high, that players reach End-game the same day they started.

Why not just take a Miyazaki approach? Make the game as a whole good and make levels less important?

If I want to raid as a Level 1 Cleric, technical skill should make it possible for me to contribute without being insta-killed by unblockable damage sources.

I know in games like Path of Exile, entering areas before the appropriate level can be fine if you're geared and spec'd right

Yuuki

With the level cap always growing and growing, one thing I've asked about WoW is why levels need to exist at all.

Axoren

But it seems games that allow it at all also punish it.

@Yuuki GW1 caps at 20

And End-game starts SOOOO early

It starts before you even finish your first storyline.

Yuuki

We had an interesting system with artifact weapons that was a quasi-level system.

Axoren

I think that's a GREAT system, and would prefer it again to what we get everywhere else

GnomeSlice

21:15

I beat dark souls at level 18 so I could do invasions of low level people with end game gear

Axoren

Extra Credits had a good video about the potential for Blockchain technology in games offering alternative gear progression

Blockchain Games - Can Blockchain Technology be a Game Mechanic? - Extra Credits

►

@GnomeSlice SAAAAAAAME

Yuuki

Everyone talks about stat squishes whenever eventual power creep from multiple expansions gets too much but I'd like to consider a level squish.

Kevin van der Velden

@Axoren I disagree, that video is terrible

Axoren

@KevinvanderVelden Cool.

Yuuki

@Axoren First question before I click on this, how do they define "blockchain"?

Kevin van der Velden

21:16

None of the things mentioned as "good examples of blockchain technology" in any way require blockchain

Yuuki

Because now, "blockchain" is kinda like "roguelike" in the sense it really doesn't mean anything anymore.

Axoren

@Yuuki Public longstanding historical record of and item.

Kevin van der Velden

If just having a database has the exact same functionallity then you don't need a blockchain

Mad Scientist

I don't even have to watch the video to be sure that blockchains in video games are an entirely pointless idea

Kevin van der Velden

@Axoren that's not what blockchain is

That's just a database

Yuuki

21:17

"That's not how the Force works."

Kevin van der Velden

A blockchain is a method of distributed concensus making when you can't trust other people

Axoren

@KevinvanderVelden Blockchain is literally just a linked list that everyone has a copy of and can verify, but the nature of that is that you can establish uniqueness of entities with concensus.

Kevin van der Velden

Which is irrelevant because there's a gamedeveloper which can just say "You trust me"

Yuuki

@Axoren You don't need blockchain to establish uniqueness of entities. That's what a database private key is for.

Axoren

@KevinvanderVelden But then the game dev needs to have an item database for every item that exists.

Kevin van der Velden

21:18

And then all blockchain is is a slow, inefficient method of doing things you can do better in other ways

Axoren

Which is bullshit for a game like Diablo 2

Kevin van der Velden

@Axoren they already do

See: diablo 3

And also: they're going to need that database anyway if it's a blockchain because they need to have all the data themselves as well

So all that happens is now the game dev has to ask other people to confirm their changes making everything slower and worse

Axoren

@GnomeSlice I would invade people outside Ornstein and Smough to maximize the likelihood of more than one combatant.

Mad Scientist

If you have a central authority, you don't need a blockchain. And it's orders of magnitude easier to solve stuff with one central authority than with a blockchain

Kevin van der Velden

Yes ^

(I may have opinions on shoving in algorithmic buzzwords for no good reason, if you haven't noticed)

Mad Scientist

21:21

The whole blockchain craze sometimes makes me wonder if everyone just went crazy

Yuuki

@KevinvanderVelden Would you like to play my new synergistic blockchain roguelike? It's in the cloud.

Kevin van der Velden

@MadScientist Just dumb

Axoren

I don't think it's as computationally easy to store Dwarf-fortress sized item histories in something like a usual database.

Kevin van der Velden

1) Why would a blockchain be easier, 2) WE HAVE THAT WORKING ALREADY IT IS CALLED DWARF FORTRESS

Yuuki

@Axoren It's easier than everyone having to store everyone's Dwarf Fortress sized item history in their own databases.

Mad Scientist

21:22

@Axoren if your argument for a blockchain is efficiency, you're terribly wrong. There is no imaginable case where a blockchain would ever be an efficient solution

Yuuki

Look, blockchain does not make data storage easier.

Dragonrage

@MadScientist no, they were all already crazy, people just found a new way to show it

Kevin van der Velden

@MadScientist interplanetary storage

(taking just the merkel tree aspect of it at least (there's still no clear definition of where exactly a blockchain starts and stops))

(see also IPFS)

Dragonrage

@KevinvanderVelden it doesnt. it goes on forever

Yuuki

My understanding is that the difference between blockchain and a central database is that with blockchain, everyone has to have a copy of the central database.

Mad Scientist

21:24

a database with a million rows is a toy, with a billion rows it's still easy for most stuff on a single server. Databases are really impressive technology, and you can get a surprising amount of perfomance out of old technology there

Kevin van der Velden

@Yuuki That's incorrect, you can function with a partial copy

Lazers 2.0

-1

Q: In roblox studio, how do I make you punch if you hit "F"?

In roblox studio, I am making a game that I want do add dealing damage to enemies by punching. I want to press "F" to punch and deal ten out of the one hundred health points, and also be animated. This requires a script. Were do I put the script and what to I write in it? I know how to make anima...

roblox

Yuuki

Saying blockchain would make Google more efficient would be like if everyone had their own copy of Google on their computer rather having to ask Google for stuff every time they wanted data.

Ave

blockchains are nothing new

Yuuki

Extra Credits really need to go back just talking about game development and nothing else.

They are horribly off-base whenever they try to leave their wheelhouse in any way.

Ave

21:25

they're just fancy ways to write "distributed ledger" when you want to get a lot of crypto-nuts and their investments.

Yuuki

I liked when they talked only about game mechanics and game narratives.

Mad Scientist

Google has some seriously impressive database technologies, and they have nothing to do with blockchains

Kevin van der Velden

Oh yeah I wrote on that video:

> So, of the two examples listed in this video as good uses of blockchain we have:
1) A thing that does not require a blockchain and would in fact probably be easier to write without having to create a blockchain. And
2) A thing where you pay for a game by using the GPU which you also would use to render the game causing... well... bad performance and an increased use of electricity causing it to be cost you money still.

Dragonrage

> Idea for a blockchain idle game: Bitcoin Farming Simulator.

Yuuki

@Axoren Sorry if things got a little aggressive, but I think we've all talked a lot about blockchains and gaming recently.

Axoren

21:29

It's fine.

user15026

@Yuuki this is my problem! I am like "THIS WORD MEANS NOTHING"

Axoren

I work with mathematicians.

I almost came to blows with someone over a flawed definition of Binomial once

This is NOTHING

Still, I think distributed ledgers don't have to be inefficient.

Ave

A big problem with distributed software is the fact that you can't just change stuff and be done. It's a bit better when you federate, but you still have people not supporting new features, and you need to account for that and preserve backwards compatibility. Centralization is good when you want most users to use a relatively new version of your software.

Kevin van der Velden

@Axoren Sure, but they can't be as efficient as a non-distributed ledger because latency

Yuuki

@Axoren That's when you have a water serpent-halfling hybrid that swings both ways, right?

Kevin van der Velden

21:31

(after all, it's not computing anything, it's just storage)

Axoren

@KevinvanderVelden While it's not computing anything, the benefit comes from being able to do player transactions without the need for the central authority to broker the deal.

Yuuki

inb4 @KevinvanderVelden: "get out"

Axoren

Many times, I've experienced, the trade server is down in some MMOs

And many duplication glitches make use of these moments of weakness in the item servers

Ave

Blockchains tend to get big rather quickly, how would a game account for that?

Axoren

Well, in Nano's whitepaper, they reference aggressive pruning.

user15026

21:32

@Yuuki okay the only bit I don't get is the water serpent bit

Ave

@Axoren Can I see this?

Kevin van der Velden

@Axoren that's a different thing from efficiency but maaaaybe,

Axoren

I assume that after enough transactions have happened, there's no reason to remember that some dude bought and sold the item in less than 10 seconds.

Ave

Because I can think of many many issues with this approach

Mad Scientist

@Axoren blockchain isn't just distributed, it also has untrusted nodes, which makes it a much, much harder problem

Axoren

21:33

@Ave nano.org/en/whitepaper

user15026

So I need you to explain that so I can properly Picard facepalm, @Yuuki

Axoren

@Ave It's definitely less secure

Kevin van der Velden

however, then it'd be effectively an actual cryptocurrency. Which requires some method of trust-like things (proof of work is a replacement) however who would go for that? Just trust the gamedev... until their ~~tradeserver~~ block verification server is down

So you've just added a bunch of work to still have the same problem but with a different name =p

Yuuki

@Ash "bi gnome eel".

Axoren

@MadScientist There is definitely the problem of Chinese gold sellers outnumbering the player base at some point and causing a 51% problem

user15026

21:34

@Yuuki aaaaaaaa okay now get out

Ave

@Axoren and... you don't have this problem with centralization.

GnomeSlice

@Axoren I did it before the gargoyles lol

Axoren

These are very all good criticisms, please don't feel like I'm just brushing them off.

GnomeSlice

The only people who could put you in the book of sinners or whatever where NG+ people who usually would just wreck me

Axoren

Unlike you guys, I just haven't had time to think about it as much

GnomeSlice

21:36

But I beat some of them

Axoren

@GnomeSlice Invite the indite.

GnomeSlice

I loved to fuck with the noobs, I'd just stand in a door and block and watch them try to figure out what to do

Yuuki

@GnomeSlice SL1 invading is the true annoying as heck cheese.

Axoren

Fuel me with your butthurt.

GnomeSlice

Indicte yea that's it

Autocorrect

Axoren

21:37

Whenever I invaded before gargoyles, I did it before Dark Wraith

And I'd open up the gate outside parish for them if it was closed

So that when I killed them, they wouldn't get sent too far back

Same with Anor Londo, I opened locked doors when it turned to Hide and Seek

GnomeSlice

Damn my screenshot in this chat that I posted years ago of my invader is 404 now

@Axoren yea I'd like herd them towards the gate so they would open it then fuck with them for a bit

So they could at least have some progress

I've seen guys who close it lol

Also got my buddy to drop me a second Dark Hand in co-op so I could have one on each hand

Axoren

I only did that once to some jerk who was using Undead Rapport to get the enemies to fight me.

Literally wouldn't fight me himself.

GnomeSlice

Steel body armor, the one with the like ripped skirt that the giant guys wear. Black iron legs and arms and the golem hat

@Axoren heh

Axoren

The difference is that with Anor Londo doors?

GnomeSlice

There was a few hackers I beat one guy who had infinite health but was otherwise weak we fought for like 30 mins

Axoren

21:40

Once you open it, closing it doesn't lock it.

GnomeSlice

He eventually kicked me off

Axoren

So they might never know it was unlocked in the first place :D

GnomeSlice

Sorry I'm a little stoned

And I love dark souls

It's my 'fav game' on my profile on Steam even I think

Axoren

If Dark Souls was an MMO, it would be the perfect base for an MMO

GnomeSlice

And I have 15,000 games

Nearly

Axoren

21:41

I'm not anywhere near that rich.

GnomeSlice

Me neither

I went through a bundle phase

Oh yeah and I worked for an indie game retailer for a bit so I got a shitload of free steam codes

Ave

@GnomeSlice oh damn I didn't realize that

Chippies

@GnomeSlice one zero too many on that number :P

are there even 15,000 games on steam?

I remember couple years ago there only were around 2000, but that was before the floodgate was opened

GnomeSlice

Yeah you're right 1,500

1,485

I thought that seemed high

Chippies

15,000 even with bundles is a lot :P

of course there's a "leaderboards" for this kind of thing

owning 15,000 games would put you in top 15 users

Axoren

21:47

Reminds me of when I checked my car's mileage and the decimal point was hard to spot, so I thought my relatively new car had already driven 200k miles.

GnomeSlice

@Chippies there definitely aren't that many games on Steam.

RedRiderX

@Chippies Huh it looks like there are only 24700 on the store store.steampowered.com/search/?category1=998

GnomeSlice

Wtf??

Kevin van der Velden

@GnomeSlice hahahahaha oooh

Steam direct is a thing =p

RedRiderX

I guess de-listed titles could make up the difference.

Chippies

21:49

@RedRiderX the top user doesn't match the number on his profile with the leaderboard, not sure if de-listed titles not show up on steam profiles or what

the second user also is showing less games on profile than on that site

Axoren

Dark Souls: PtD is delisted.

Feels bad, man

Ave

@Chippies steamladder is amazing

RedRiderX

@Chippies Compare with steamdb.info/badges/?badgeid=13

Ave

and here I am with only ~1030 games

StrixVaria

@GnomeSlice I got Trials Fusion for free this week and it's pretty good, but there's one level I can't even beat. I spent 50+ retries on a single checkpoint and couldn't do it.

"Base Invader" is the level name.

There's a jump up onto a nearly vertical ramp and I just bounce off and fall into a pit every time.

Axoren

22:10

@Ave @KevinvanderVelden and any others that wanna chime in, since this is less gaming talk and more blockchain talk. What literature would I read for proper cost-benefit analysis of integrating block chain into something that isn't a currency?

You guys seem to have a good handle on what it shouldn't work with, were those the fruits of discussion or research I can find elsewhere?

Ave

@Axoren Why do you want to implement blockchains into stuff in the first place?

GnomeSlice

@StrixVaria want me to check it out and give you a tip cause I got pretty far in that

Axoren

@Ave It's more that I wanna track down the flaw in my reasoning for why they would have fit in the first place.

GnomeSlice

There were some tricky ones but I think you can skip a few too

StrixVaria

@GnomeSlice I did notice I could skip it if I wanted but I've gotten all golds on levels before that.

Like 40% of the way through.

GnomeSlice

22:12

Gameplay is great though but a lot of network fluff

Axoren

My intuition is that it would still be useful at some level to have a decentralized inventory system for an MMO.

StrixVaria

I haven't touched the online yet, just playing through the campaign.

GnomeSlice

Trials hd better feel overall but

Axoren

But blockchain might not be the way to handle it.

StrixVaria

It's really frustrating that I'm just getting walled by one jump and the rest of the stuff I'm able to do fairly well.

GnomeSlice

22:12

Yeah same I am never bothering with it

Axoren

There's a lot of discussion on using it for supply-chain management.

GnomeSlice

@StrixVaria hm. Try a different bike

Ave

@Axoren this might help depending on what you're looking for exactly

GnomeSlice

Or hitting the ground at a different angle when you land

Axoren

@Ave Thanks

StrixVaria

22:13

@GnomeSlice Interesting idea.

user15026

@Ave I still need to read this!

GnomeSlice

Try random ones

StrixVaria

@GnomeSlice Every angle I've tried has me bouncing off and landing in a pit.

GnomeSlice

@StrixVaria yeah some of them are made for certain bikes

StrixVaria

I think I might not be getting enough height but I don't see how I could get more.

Ave

22:14

@Ash It's a really good book!

GnomeSlice

Even if not officially u can tell the ones meant for like the fast bike

StrixVaria

Right now though it's dinner time, might try again later tonight.

Ave

It reads a bit like rambles from time to time but it still looks at crypto stuff pretty fairly well.

GnomeSlice

K I just watched a YouTube video of that run and I don't see which part you mean

@StrixVaria

Oh is it where you jump up against the curved thing and you're hitting it too low and getting the wall part

Do you know how how to preload your jumps or whatever

You like lean back and then lean forward right when u go off the jump

Or right before

His body weight like boosts it

Lazers 2.0

0

Q: How to clean corrosion from PSP analog stick connector?

My PSP has been sitting in a drawer for several years and upon picking it back up the analog stick didn't work. So I went ahead and opened it up and this is what I saw: The connector seem corroded (zoom in the image), which is strange because there's nothing wrong anywhere else. Any ideas on ...

psp

GnomeSlice

22:30

Yea that might be one of the ones where you need the fastest bike

StrixVaria

@GnomeSlice Yeah tried that.

Axoren

Lol

taugrim.com/2013/06/06/…

"There are signs that gaming industry execs are learning, e.g.:"

"Scott Hartsman gets it."

This man is proof enough for me, lol.

Fluttershy

22:50

Hey PUBG players, due to a glitch in our system we have banned a bunch of innocent players within the past hour. We are really sorry for this and are working on reverting all false bans ASAP.

Tweeted by TheBattlEye on June 8, 2018 at 9:53 PM

cc @Yuuki

Yuuki

I haven't logged in in forever.

(read: two weeks maybe)

user15026

@Fluttershy Oops.

GnomeSlice

23:14

@StrixVaria how are you landing on the top of the bill before that jump u need to keep all the speed

Top of the hill

That's a crazy stage it's all like flying around

Lazers 2.0

23:26

0

Q: What do I do if the quarried stone next to my house stops giving me quarried stone? Kinda confused

I need help because my quarried stone next to my house in Falkreath stopped giving me stone

the-elder-scrolls-5-skyrim skyrim-hearthfire

GodEmperorDune

A good day to remind people that a) there is NO shame in going to therapy and b) I once accidentally texted my therapist a picture of the Tri-Force from The Legend Of Zelda