The Bridge

antony.trupe

20:04

@tzenes I'm cheating at DF? what am I not doing right?

tzenes

?

antony.trupe

yesterday you said something to the effect I'm asking questions about how to cheat.

tzenes

DwarfTherapist

antony.trupe

ah

tzenes

yeah

antony.trupe

20:06

ok, yeah, I can see how that's considered cheating

tzenes

considered?

do you have some definition of cheating I don't have?

antony.trupe

probably

breaking a rule

tzenes

you're using a third party application to access a running task and see hidden variable and modify them

actually ignore that

Arda Xi

what's wrong with my answer here by the way? all I did was stating facts

tzenes

you're taking a game that is hard to be hard

Arda Xi

20:08

2

A: How do we handle questions about archival and backups

See http://www.chillingeffects.org/anticircumvention/faq.cgi#QID91 and http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/openlaw/DVD/1201.html#a No person shall circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title. Making copies of a Wii disc and making ...

tzenes

and you're making it easier

yes

it allows you to prioritize which is intentionally not in the game

@Arda I think McKay just disagrees

on meta downvoting usually means your disagree

antony.trupe

perhaps. I don't think Tarn's goal is to make the interface cumbersome, its just not a priority

Arda Xi

well yeah, but you can't really disagree with the law

which was my point

I don't agree with the law either

tzenes

I think its his goal to make it so you can't specifically tell a dwarf what to do

antony.trupe

you can set job preferences in the game client, which is all that DT lets you do(from my understanding)

tzenes

20:11

He doesn't disagree with the law but rather your interpretation

it does more

antony.trupe

really?

tzenes

Therapist is a fairly extensive hacking tool

antony.trupe

I didn't know that

tzenes

yes really

Arda Xi

I'd like to know what I'm interpreting wrong though, that's what chat is useful for

tzenes

20:12

@Arda I don't know you'd have to ask him

C. Ross

@Tzenes I agree, it is pretty hackish, but even I use it as read-only sometimes

tzenes

@antonytrupe you're like a person who has been chopping down trees with a chain saw and only just realized its a leathal weapon

@CRoss I really think of that as a violation of the spirit of DF

the idea of "fun" in DF is that its hard

making it easier seems pointless

its like using a Car to win a Marathon

it defeats the purpose

antony.trupe

4

Q: What does Dwarf Therapist let me do that I couldn't do in the game?

What does Dwarf Therapist let me do that I couldn't do in the game or manually in a spreadsheet and tediously in the native client?

on-topic?

tzenes

subjective

close

the concept of cheating is a subjective one

C. Ross

yeah a little subjective

antony.trupe

20:15

the title is subjective

is the question?

should I just repeat the question in the title?

C. Ross

@tzenes Have your read ToadyOne's opinions on the thing?

Abel Morelos

Dwarfs are subjective

7

tzenes

@CRoss actually no

just the podcast he did

antony.trupe

4

Q: What does Dwarf Therapist let me do that I couldn't do in the game?

What does Dwarf Therapist let me do that I couldn't do in the game or manually in a spreadsheet and tediously in the native client?

dwarf-fortress add-ons dwarf-therapist

better, no change, worse?

C. Ross

better

antony.trupe

20:16

good enough?

C. Ross

@tzenes IIRC He doesn't care about people "cheating", as long as they disclose that when posting accomplishments

tzenes

@CRoss since there is no multiplayer I'm not surprised

Abel Morelos

looks better, but I don't have idea what are you talking about

Abel Morelos

D&D? WoW?

tzenes

haha

I fixed it for you abel

also, answered your question @antonytrupe

C. Ross

20:19

@Abel D&D what? is the roleplaying site up?

Abel Morelos

@CRoss oh, I was just guessing, I haven't played D&D since aeons ago

C. Ross

I still play weekly

antony.trupe

are changes to questions/answers in your interesting tags automatically inserted into the chat feed?

edits and additions*

C. Ross

I'm very excited about

area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/2208/role-playing-games

Downvoter

@antonytrupe, no

Downvoter

20:22

the chat feed is for new questions only

Downvoter

and it's the same for everybody (not based on favorite tags of a specific user)

antony.trupe

got it, thanks

@tzenes is my comment wrong? I understand the "making it easier is not the point" argument, but I'm really turned off by hard interfaces(might not have kept playing if DT didn't exist); I realize it may be an unpopular personal preference.

tzenes

It doesn't explicitly say this, but the way in which it puts the data into DF is not the same as when you change a preference

it pushes it into the task queue

the net result gives you a level of control you don't otherwise have

antony.trupe

ah

tzenes

sometimes its not what it lets you do, but how that matters

antony.trupe

20:27

do you know if it's possible to disable that?

tzenes

no

antony.trupe

I guess I don't see the different between WoW mods(to make the UI customizable/easier/etc) and DT

tzenes

that's HOW it does it

not something it does

antony.trupe

mmm

tzenes

@antonytrupe did you ever use the WoW mod that allowed you to position your guys in raid?

or the one which made auto buy/sell from auctionhouse?

both were later banned

antony.trupe

20:29

I didn't, no.

but I see your connection

Downvoter

@tzenes, you can edit your previous messages ;)

tzenes

yeah, I realized

force of habit

Downvoter

:)

tzenes

Years and years of IRC is hard to unlearn

2

antony.trupe

you just copy/pasted the feature list from the original post. now that's cheating.

:P

I can't find Tarn's opinion on Dwarf Therapist

I'd like to read/hear it

tzenes

20:38

I think coming to gaming.se without doing 5 seconds of google search is cheating too

Arda Xi

sadly it isn't

tzenes

I think thats how SO filters so many bad questions

they demand users spend those 5 seconds first

Arda Xi

no, they don't

you only have to search SO, not google

antony.trupe

if they're not valuable, delete them, imo.

people'll be upset, but so be it

tzenes

@Arda go look at some of the questions, usually people talk about what they've tried and where they've searched

Arda Xi

20:42

true, it's appreciated, but not needed

C. Ross

20:55

... does John's icon look blurred to anyone's else?

alexanderpas

affirm!

C. Ross

it flew in ok, and it looks ok if I click on it, but it's blurry on the side

Arda Xi

whose?

alexanderpas

Mr. Downvotes.

antony.trupe

it's a 5x5px image

alexanderpas

20:58

according to firebug, it is a 5x5 icon stretched to 32x32

??? nifty use of gravatar ???

antony.trupe

the url has s=5

but s=32 for everyone else

Arda Xi

what browser are you using?

well, firefox obviously

antony.trupe

FF 3.6.8

Arda Xi

since the blurriness at that time depends on your browser

explains why it looks fine here

hmm

it has ?s=32 for me

antony.trupe

reloaded the page, now it's better

s=32

a bug/fluke in the transition code I assume

Downvoter

21:08

I see this has 2 votes to delete:

Downvoter

0

Q: What are some good coop games?

Possible Duplicate: What games offer a good co-op multiplayer experience? I haven't seen any great lists of coop games out there - they tend to be incomplete or weak, and I've seen a few that flat out lied. What coop games are you aware of? For easy searching (and to facilitate the cre...

game-rec co-op

Downvoter

please, don't delete duplicate questions

Downvoter

they serve the purpose of having different words for searching

Arda Xi

I don't see why you should delete anything anyway

Downvoter

off topic questions are generally ok to delete

Downvoter

21:10

but I'd prefer not to delete duplicates for the search reason I was talking about

alexanderpas

off topic questions are examples of off topic questions.

Downvoter

generally

alexanderpas

point duplicate to off topic, no off toopic discussion needed for duplicate.

tzenes

@JuanManuel I didn't realize that, good to know

question though, can I vote to delete the original?

or should we leave those around as closed?

alexanderpas

no... duplicate of non-existing question is just plain stupid.

Downvoter

21:15

The question it's a duplicate of is not deleted

alexanderpas

BTW: being under NDA is no fun when you're on a site like this.

antony.trupe

I had a question closed as a duplicate of a deleted question.

Downvoter

which one?

Downvoter

(although I remember why, and that was a special case)

antony.trupe

one of the handful that were generic. there was more going on.

Arda Xi

21:18

because Jeff deleted those questions

antony.trupe

most of 'em

Downvoter

(Jeff deleted all those LOTR guides in the private beta)

Arda Xi

those without answers

alexanderpas

yeah... those questions... It brings me back to a time when gaming.se was still a walled garden, and only a couple of people on the world had access.

antony.trupe

I'm glad we went through that then and not in public beta

Arda Xi

21:21

ah nostalgia

alexanderpas

good private beta is good!

antony.trupe

why not call it alpha instead of private beta?

Arda Xi

because an alpha is a different state in development

antony.trupe

are we not in a different state of development in private beta then in public beta?

Arda Xi

no

antony.trupe

21:24

are we in a different state of development when the proposal out of beta?

alexanderpas

no, same codebase, same phase

tzenes

@JuanManuel I meant that if we deleted the original as a bad question, would it then make sense to delete the duplicate

alexanderpas

and yes, when we're out of beta, we have our identity, so different phase.

Downvoter

yes, it would. But that one is not likely to get deleted...

antony.trupe

the codebase isn't changing between beta and 'live', is it?

tzenes

21:25

out of curiosity, why not?

to prevent it from being reasked?

alexanderpas

at least the CSS files are...

Arda Xi

@JuanManuel, I just answered that question again, then it's edited again to devalue my answer

antony.trupe

ah

that's a fine line.

alexanderpas

not to mention, domain get's added etc...

Downvoter

first, because it's not yet 100% clear if they are allowed or not

tzenes

21:27

right, but once that's decided

Downvoter

and secondly, because highly voted questions require more votes to be deleted

Downvoter

if it's decided they'll both get deleted

Downvoter

but if it's decided the other way around

Downvoter

the one closed as duplicate wouldn't have to be touched

tzenes

that's fine then

alexanderpas

21:28

moral of the story, downvote and closevote together, or just downvote if you're out of close votes.

Ivo Flipse

just want to point people to this blog post that was mentioned in the moderator chat about having fun questions:

Stack Overflow Blog: Stack Overflow: Where We Hate Fun

Posted by Jeff Atwood on January 4th, 2010

I noticed that the Stack Overflow question Strangest language feature has been closed and reopened several times now. The text of the question is brief:

What is in your opinion the most surprising, weird, strange or really “WTF” language feature you have encountered?

I agree this is not exactly an ideal question for Stack Overflow, per the FAQ:

Avoid asking questions that are subjective, argumentative, or require extended discussion. This is not a discussion board, this is a place for questions that can be answered! …

Macha

@alexanderpas But downvoting encourages sympathy upvotes, which gets people rep for unwanted questions..

Also, twitter is failing so badly it can't even display the fail whale atm.

alexanderpas

17

Q: How to upvote responsibly

Sometimes you just happen to read an answer in a topic in which you are not an expert in, and it sounds convincing enough, it shows careful effort and attention to details in the writing, and the author seems knowledgeable enough about the subject (see notes below), but this is simply not your ar...

discussion voting up-votes

Arda Xi

Hmm, is that a failkitty?

alexanderpas

and this answer is gold

5

A: How to upvote responsibly

The old ethics test works here: What would happen if everyone else behaved exactly like you? If the answer, as it is in this case, is that the system would break, or be adversely affected, then you picked the wrong action. Imagine there are two answers to a question: One is right, but poorly...

Macha

21:39

Oh, the whale is back

I'll have to check when it's working again, but I believe the kitty is part of the normal background

Arda Xi

Macha

Ok, it's not there normally

alexanderpas

trying to tweet with my phone... tweet failed.

I surrender... twitter, you win.

Ivo Flipse

I hate typing in my HTC hero anyway

the virtual keyboard is too slow

alexanderpas

I've got a physical keyboard on my rooted milestone.

Macha

21:46

Anyway, I'm going for now.

Ivo Flipse

bye @Macha

alexanderpas

have a nice day or sleep @Macha ;)

Arda Xi

that'd be sleep IIRC

hmm, I knew I wasn't the only one with a Hero

then again, it's a lot more bearable with the ime mod

Ivo Flipse

well I also don't like it that half my screen is occupied when typing and I can't type bilingual on my new keyboard

alexanderpas

I depend on tactile feedback, I can't type on touchscreen, or game on a touchpad, i need buttons! (touchpad mouse movement is acceptable.)

Pat

21:51

what provider you using with hero?

Ivo Flipse

I'm interested in the Droid 2, but I fear that HTC will come with new models that totally own it shortly after the release

a Dutch one @Pat

Arda Xi

@IvoFlipse I use triple-comma to change the language, since I have to switch between Dutch and English all the time

Ivo Flipse

hi @Troggy look how well I stay on topic ;-)

Arda Xi

out of interest, which?

alexanderpas

@Ivo Ben?

Arda Xi

21:52

does that still exist?

Troggy

I think @Ivo is in every room.

Ivo Flipse

T-Mobile, then suck but the rest surely aint better, living in Groesbeek is just a pain

I'm a ghost in the machine @Troggy

Arda Xi

T-Mobile has the worst coverage of them all though

Troggy

I got a quick question to the hardware junkies out there.

Pat

Not so worried about coverage, but anything with data plans to be semi usable are just highway robbery cost wise

Arda Xi

21:54

I'm with Hi, they suck too because their Endless plan (Hi Eindeloos Online) has a limit of 200MB a month at which point they drop you below 3G speeds

Ivo Flipse

yup, but the price of the others is much higher, not worth it really, but living near the border is painful :(

Arda Xi

Vodafone has the best value for money in my experience, especially coverage-wise

Ivo Flipse

shoot it @Troggy

alexanderpas

truly unlimited, no FUP, for 10 Euro/Month....

Troggy

ati 5850 vs 5870. Is it worth the $100 premium? I am considering setting up CF with 5850. Maybe a single 5870. Thoughts?

Arda Xi

21:55

@alexanderpas exactly

alexanderpas

even vodafone has FUP.

Arda Xi

Nope

alexanderpas

yup

Arda Xi

I have used it for tethering, must've pushed multiple gigabytes through it a day

if it's an FUP it's a very generous one

Ivo Flipse

I might look into transferring then, though I will probably have to start my own business (ZZP!) so I could switch my private one to Vodafone and stick with T-Mobile for the business part

Pat

21:56

@Troggy If you're robbing the bank the extra 100 bucks wont be necessary, but if you can part with it, itll garner you some extra fps. for me it would depend on how cheap im being

Ivo Flipse

anyway, I'm off to bed, so you guys be nice ;-)

Pat

bye Ivo

Ivo Flipse

and kills some more bad questions for me

alexanderpas

@Arda bellen.com/content/… (dutch)

Arda Xi

oh right, I was contacted once

in a lifetime of a contract of 2 years

I kept abusing the service, they never said anything

Troggy

21:58

Yah, I am one of those love to turn everything up to the max, but within financial reason. I keep reading how the 5850 is one of the best $$$/performance ratios. CF'n a couple of them would seem to be a sweet spot. Problem is there are $260 to nearly $400 versions of the 5850. The other concern I have, is which brand of card is going to easiest to find in the coming months if I want to setup CF later?

Arda Xi

"Bij Vodafone Zorgeloos Internet Blox Totaal is VoIP toegestaan." that makes no sense

Pat

@Troggy I've dropped lots of $ on a vid card just to have it out done few weeks/months later, I've come to the conclusion that saving a lil dough here for the second ultra premium card is a good decision

alexanderpas

@Arda most expensive package obvious ;)

Arda Xi

No, I mean, I've used Skype over the cheap one

they can't block voip

"Over het algemeen geldt dat u niet mag bellen over uw mobiele internetverbinding (VoIP) en/of een laptop gebruiken in plaats van uw mobiel." I've done both without sanctions on Vodafone, but Hi complains immediately.

alexanderpas

yeah... one is stricter than the other...

LOL @question.

Pat

22:02

yeah lol

Arda Xi

Hence I'm going back to Vodafone the minute I can

also the 3x speed increase

Troggy

@Pat Yah the single vs CF descision also has an effect on my i7/1366 socket x58 vs i5/i7/1156 p55 platform choice.

Arda Xi

anyway, enough dutch for today, I'm gonna go

good night

Pat

@Troggy if you're planning on keeping this system with little to no upgrades throw out the cash now but it will only last maybe 4 years max before games start slowing it down. I dont think I will do a uber build anymore, but just update components as necessary.

Troggy

@Pat That has been my debate. I plan on doing a lot of virtualization (actual work) as well as gaming, so I was going to go with the 1366 platform for the triple channel mem and hyperthreading. I don't mind spending a decent chunk, I just don't need that extra 5% top end performance at a $1500 extra premium. choices .... choices.

alexanderpas

22:13

I don't do uber builds anymore, I usually build for half the lifespan of an uberbuild for a third of the money.

virtualisation is mostly CPU + RAM, not GPU

small question, can i embed a youtube movie in an answer?

Troggy

@alexanderpas Yep, and thats why I am considering the 1366 platform for that. These $1000 processors and $800 video cards are kind of rediculous if you ask me though.

Pat

@Troggy you could probably upgrade a few months from now with the higher end build if necessary for less than 1500 if it turns out the lower end system doesnt perform well enough

alexanderpas

@Pat than can be said every single time... computer parts don't get cheaper, they just get better.

Troggy

Was there a release date mentioned for ATI 6k series or is that just people talking up rumors?

alexanderpas

@Pat, I had to downvote you here...

3

A: How do I do a Barrel Roll?

If I recall correctly, double tap the R or Z keys on top of the controller. Its when your craft spins left or right. Great for avoiding incoming enemy's or projectiles.

tzenes

22:23

Hey is ivo here?

@IvoFlipse

Arda Xi

he's off to bed

C. Ross

No

you can check in the right hand list

tzenes

damn

I can't get my registry to delete this key

Troggy

@tzenes I believe @Ivo went to sleep.

alexanderpas

23:46

why do I always need to answer comprehensive:

7

A: How does the old version of Trackmania differ from TrackMania Nations Forever?

Trackmania has a pretty unusual release/upgrade path, where three games have become 1 game with a demo. It all started with Trackmania Then came the second game Trackmania Sunrise which ran on an improved engine Trackmania Sunrise got an free upgrade to Trackmania Sunrise eXtreme Then Trackmani...

/quit off to bed.

tzenes

I have that problem too. Its not enough for me to just say: "if you're playing Zerg you should probably go 14 pool maybe 16 hatch." I have to discuss all the alternatives and their strengths and weaknesses.

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