The Bridge

Mana

00:35

Hurray, I have finally managed to get the 20 rep on meta.stackoverflow required to get in here.

Jeff Atwood

03:23

just wanted to make sure you guys saw the Starcraft II house ads on stackoverflow.com

Chacha102

Those are actually pretty neat. Who designed them?

Noctrine

Jin's been having fun?

Mana

03:59

Oh man, that's awesome.

tzenes

06:18

Hey, I made this work

Marc Gravell

06:30

Did you do the logout thing?

tzenes

yes

that fixed it

Thank you

Marc Gravell

np

Ivo Flipse

fixed what?

tzenes

My rep wasn't carrying over from meta

Marc helped me out

Ivo Flipse

ah

tzenes

06:39

Hey, what do you think about meta.gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/302/…

Ivo Flipse

I agree with random (Eight days of blabla)

and more or less with Grace

tzenes

well if I've learned anything its that Grace is always right

I don't like these rec questions

I think they encourage low quality in the questions being asked

Ivo Flipse

true

well like random said: we shouldn't be allowing them too much during beta

tzenes

I think the major difference between this and a question on SO like "What's a Javascript option that is similar to Tomcat?" is that game recommendations are something everyone has an opinion on, where this sample question is something only someone who knows a lot about javascript and servers is likely to answer.

Ivo Flipse

true, but thanks to the voting only some people's suggestions should get high votes

Dexter

06:48

@IvoFlipse: I think it would be interesting to see what would happen to the voting if they made the default sort order on Area51 "random".

tzenes

Maybe, but that's not guaranteed to be true. I could easily see a question a long the lines of "What's a good First Person Shooter for the 360 that is similar to Modern Warfare 2?" having a dozen different highly ranked answers

Ivo Flipse

sort order of the proposals @Dexter

well then quite a lot of people think they are good alternatives :P

Dexter

No of the on-topic / off-topic questions.

Ivo Flipse

how's that? why would they have to be randomly ordered

tzenes

at the same time that might disperse votes too evenly

Ivo Flipse

06:50

but your right @tzenes

I don't want too much of those questions either

Dexter

Because newer questions tend to have less votes even though they may be just as good.

Ivo Flipse

and we don't need them as #starcraft2 is showing

ah then you should sort by newest ;)

tzenes

Starcraft 2 will die down

or Sort by Lowest vote

Its just the biggest game launching around the same time we are

Ivo Flipse

I know it will

but it's ok to have loads of questions around the release

that's how it should go

and then the next wave comes

and we all ride that one

tzenes

yup

Ivo Flipse

06:53

Kinect and Move are going to bring loads of content

so I'm very optimistic about the future of gaming

tzenes

I can see tons of questiosn about those

Ivo Flipse

but the best thing is that these often really are questions

tzenes

their use seems ill defined

Ivo Flipse

not lists of X and blabla

tzenes

agreed

and things which will attract the right kind of people

people who know alot about games

that have that specialized "tribal" knowlege

Ivo Flipse

06:56

I still think WoW should be part of our site

just the whole epic advice

tzenes

They have a really good site in Epic Advice

Ivo Flipse

2k question or so they have is nothing in the end

tzenes

yeah, but how do you convince those 2k users to get up and come over here

inevitably they will resist change

Ivo Flipse

great question

I don't know

tzenes

same thing happened with the jquery community

they just didn't want to change

so never merged into SO fully

Ivo Flipse

06:58

well all I know is that such a site as elitistjerks.com, the wow theorycrafters

are the kind of people we want on our site

tzenes

agreed

Ivo Flipse

because they know stuff and know how to write it down properly

tzenes

since I am one of those people

Ivo Flipse

if those kind of people go to epicadvice

they don't come here :P

tzenes

they won't

not in a million years

Ivo Flipse

06:59

hehe

tzenes

look at the questions being asked

Ivo Flipse

well our format probably doesn't lend itself for that

tzenes

they're the "game-rec" questions of wow

the "n00b" questions

Ivo Flipse

but which is why we need their level of answers, if only on a couple of topics

well be back later anyway

tzenes

Well consider a quick cross section of EpicAdvice questions: "What do I do with leftover materials?" "Can a mage conjour a mount?" "what are good wow sites" If you are a guy who spends hours using spreadsheets to accurately calculate death knight dps numbers (like I used to) there is no reason you'd want to go there.

talk to you later

Ivo Flipse

08:37

your absolutely right @tzenes

which is some users should use their own material (with attribution) to make nice answers

so they see their content is useful to answer loads of questions

and we should have some questions thye do feel like answering

though at the moment the community doesn't like class based questions (though I think that's just because they lack their level of content)

tzenes

I actually think they lack the specificity. The original "class" questions were just: "How do I level a Priest?" This is akin to asking "How do I program in C?" Its a bad question. On the other hand if they had asked, "What is the formula for spirit based mana regen in WotLK?" it probably would have received a much more positive response.

Though the most interesting question would be: "For a Holy Priest which is better Glowing Twilight Scale or Sliver of Pure Ice?"

Ivo Flipse

yeah though we would have to ask that question every single patch

when new items are released

and it might depend on the three different class trees

and 8 different races

well 10 to be

tzenes

Its a kin to asking "Would a plinq ray tracer in C# operating on a static scene be better or worse than an asyncronous building block F# library?"

It actually doesn't very based on race

and only 2 different spec's

shadow wouldn't care about a healing trinket

Ivo Flipse

hehe, you got me there ;)

tzenes

but the point here is that is the kind of question that brings the proverbial "boys to the yard"

Ivo Flipse

08:51

but the problem is that some 'newbies' don't understand those differences or that the answer does apply to them

while I would simply close their question because it's a a dupe

yup

tzenes

a noob doesn't need to know the difference

we're not trying to attract noobs

Ivo Flipse

it's too bad that at the moment I don't really have time to play loads of games myself, so I don't have anything to add at the moment

tzenes

we need the people who know their shit

Ivo Flipse

true

tzenes

The noobs will get the most benefit when they are googling something

at some point they need to know which trinket is better for a holy priest

Ivo Flipse

08:52

I'd used to have the warlock elitist jerks thread as my start page :P

tzenes

they type that in

and they get the answer

Ivo Flipse

I just mean that they are the people asking dumb questions (so we weren't addressing the same thing)

tzenes

ah

well its complicated but I think setting a strong policy of knocking down list based questions is a good place to start

Ivo Flipse

true

tzenes

Just like a site for film buffs wouldn't want a question like "What is a movie similar to die hard?"

Ivo Flipse

08:54

hehe nope

tzenes

they'd rather discuss the roll of the story teller in Terintino's Reservoir dogs

Ivo Flipse

though I'd love to watch one

tzenes

A movie similar to die hard?

Ivo Flipse

heej when it's late at night and I want to sit behind the computer and have the TV on

then my focus is on chatting, not on the movie :P

tzenes

That reminds me I should probably get lseep

*sleep even

Ivo Flipse

08:57

I should get to work

tzenes

later

Ivo Flipse

@Jin: awesome ads!

C. Ross

12:31

... ok so that's a subjective question about a game that doesn't even have a demo out

please tell me that's subjective enough to get closed

Macha

13:11

@C.Ross Needs one more vote.

C. Ross

ok, good

Mana

13:26

Closed that Civ V question.

C. Ross

13:49

iPhone off topic I think?

Mana

ack, I answered that iPhone app question without even thinking. It's really not on-topic.

C. Ross

you can delete your answer :-P

Mana

But that's kind of worthless, I mean, the guy came here for an answer so he might as well get one

C. Ross

do we want to encourage him though?

eh, just don't upvote it

Mana

-1ed

always the best way to discourage

C. Ross

13:52

true, true

Mana

that and a close: it sucks when you put time into asking a question and it gets closed

C. Ross

that one was pretty flipping short

Mana

Yeah, well, yeah.

Downvoter

Yeah, I don't think it's good etiquette to vote to close and answer...

Downvoter

"I mean, the guy came here for an answer so he might as well get one" <-- will we answer "how is babby formed?"?

Ivo Flipse

13:58

nope, it's vote to close and do nothing

Mana

Fair enough.

Ivo Flipse

refer him to a site he might get the answer (if it's another SE site for instance)

Mana

Sorry about that, I'll be more wary in the future.

Downvoter

no problem at all

Ivo Flipse

hehe, if nobody teaches you the preferred etiquette, than how should you learn it?

Macha

14:13

gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/4418/… - read comment thread. *sigh*

C. Ross

community building ain't easy

Macha

My rep is now catching up my MSO rep. I bet when I'm on 1900, they'll change the mod tools to 10k though.

Downvoter

he

C. Ross

I'm expecting that too ...

Downvoter

I don't think they'll change it until/if we come out of beta

C. Ross

14:18

which is what, 60 more days at least?

Downvoter

at least

Downvoter

area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/1338/gaming

Downvoter

"The site's progress will be evaluated in 63 days."

Mana

14:33

Well, he made it community wiki. I guess it's fine?

FallenAngelEyes

Good afternoon!

Mana

Yo. How's it going?

FallenAngelEyes

Good, trying to get a handle on chat here. The integration is pretty nice.

Mana

Yeah, it's great. Also, I think that question above should be closed; waaaaay too broad/subjective

FallenAngelEyes

Likewise.

There's no qualifiers for any specific game characteristics or anything. It can just become one big honking list.

Mana

14:38

What about this one though?

ah, there we go.

0

Q: Hilarious bugs messing up game logic

Just to start with an example: Back in 1990 I played Bundesliga Manager Professional (Soccer Manager). You have to set 11 of your player to the "In team"-state before each match. If you put a player on the transfer market he won't be shown on the team-screen but he will keep his "In team"-state...

bug

FallenAngelEyes

That's... not a real question...

Again, just asking for a list, imo, which again has the potential to become just a large list of "games with funny bugs" or something? I don't really see the potential for usefulness there...

Mana

I agree.

C. Ross

a little bit of that kind of thing is ok ... makes a site "homey"

like

Downvoter

"It's difficult to tell what is being asked here"

C. Ross

1195

Q: What is the single most influential book every programmer should read?

If you could go back in time and tell yourself to read a specific book at the beginning of your career as a developer, which book would it be? I expect this list to be varied and to cover a wide range of things. For me, the book would be Code Complete. After reading that book, I was able to get ...

books resources fundamentals

Downvoter

14:41

I'd agree

Downvoter

but I wouldn't want to super vote

C. Ross

but yes, it's difficult to tell what's being asked (I already voted to close)

Noctrine

Doesn't that question only really exist because it was grandfathered in

If something like that was to be asked on SO now, regardless of the homey feeling it would be closed

Downvoter

yes, besides, we already have a lot of those kind of questions

C. Ross

I agree with Noctrine ... are we cutting off that "phase" of site development already?

Noctrine

14:42

Kinda of want to make a feature request that makes the "How to ask a question" page come up the first time you click ask a question

C. Ross

no more "fun" questions?

Mana

Hm. I'm kind of stuck as to what to say.

Noctrine

I would save fun questions till after the reeval

And even then, let few and far between through.

Downvoter

It's very important to shape the site into what we want it to be

FallenAngelEyes

There's s so many list questions already though, some toeing the line of usefulness already.

Downvoter

14:43

that's what will be evaluated at the end of the beta

Downvoter

and if the site is filled with "fun" questions, I doubt it would be deemed a useful site

Downvoter

right?

Noctrine

Right

Mana

Most likely.

C. Ross

I see your point

FallenAngelEyes

14:44

"Fun" questions are often just discussions that could be potentially found on any forum or message board. We want to differentiate ourselves from that.

Noctrine

If I remember correctly, Jeff already expressed his skepticism with how this site would work.

Downvoter

yes, he certainly did

Downvoter

it's up to us to prove him wrong :)

Noctrine

And we do have official positions on fun questions, to many and we risk becoming an all out discussion board

Mana

Even if we do attract new users with these "fun" questions to give answers, they'll be the types who will want to ask more "fun" questions more than likely.

C. Ross

14:46

views count though

Mana

That's true.

Downvoter

I'd prefer quality

Noctrine

For what shall it profit a man...

I prefer quality as well, people who will ask quality questions will more than likely continue to return and ask quality questions.

Downvoter

if we have 3000 users that all they ask is "what was the first game you played?" I wouldn't want to visit that site

5

Mana

Yeah. I think Jeff's main concern might be that the site will get way out of hand with subjective questions.

Noctrine

14:47

Exactly

C. Ross

(FYI: I'm playing devils advocate, I'm probably the most close happy person here)

Noctrine

Devil's Advocate is an important position

Mana

So we should focus less on worrying about views, since it seems we already have a pretty regular group of people who visit the site, and more on making sure the questions are as objective as possible.

Correct?

Noctrine

Yeah, there are like 4k views a day apparently.

C. Ross

yes, more than any other Beta site

Downvoter

14:48

we are one of the most visited sites

Downvoter

that's good

Macha

Gadgets may be in trouble: gadgets.stackexchange.com - look how inactive it is.

Downvoter

yup, I noticed

Downvoter

but there wasn't any publicity yet

C. Ross

Do we really want to make another mass move against game-rec

gaming.stackexchange.com/search?q=closed%3A0+[game-rec]

Downvoter

14:49

that's coming though

Downvoter

This is my stance regarding game-rec:

Downvoter

9

A: [game-recommendations] and single, correct answers

After some thought and discussion with other users on chat, my opinion is that in general, these sort of questions should be allowed, as long as They are not too broad They are marked as community wiki. Not too broad - because just a list of all RTSs doesn't add anything. Many other sites cat...

Noctrine

It would be nice if certain tags could make you read a FAQ before they are used.

So if a person put in game-rec it would make them read the requirements

C. Ross

I think there is already a feature-request on meta

Mana

meta-overflow or gaming?

FallenAngelEyes

14:52

Sitting in this room all day is going to be bad for getting homework done >_>

C. Ross

mso

Noctrine

lol

Macha

It's bad for getting coding done too :(

Chacha102

It isn't exactly productive thats for sure

FallenAngelEyes

Though I haven't had much to contribute to the gaming site lately anyway because I'm not playing SC II.

Noctrine

14:53

I hid SC2

Mana

ouch.

Noctrine

And the rest of the X-craft series, so the site looks slooow to me

C. Ross

the site is making me want to buy it really badly ...

Downvoter

yeah, this site forces you to always play the current popular game

Noctrine

Now when minecraft questions start pouring in, assuming I get time to play it, I'll be all over those.

Mana

14:54

Alien Swarm had a lot of questions when it was released

Downvoter

we should get endorsed by Blizzard and Valve ASAP!

Mana

Is that possible?

Noctrine

mmm

Downvoter

:P

C. Ross

oh, I bet the tag ads on Gaming will sell well

Mana

14:54

:<

Noctrine

Jeff doesn't want to allow sponsorship for 6+ months

Downvoter

I said it as a joke, but it's an idea...

Mana

I see...hm.

Noctrine

I sent an email making a case for how it could help sites achieve critical mass

Stackoverflow exploded mainly due to it's association with Jeff & Joel

FallenAngelEyes

I think we'd need a lot more mods then.

Noctrine

14:55

The thing that really attached me to it was the android & woot endorsements

Downvoter

I already sent a private email to Robert with an idea to convince Jeff to implement this

Downvoter

39

Q: Can Steam be added as an OpenID provider?

Obviously anyone can just put http://steamcommunity.com/openid into the generic OpenID field, but a nice button would be good to make it easier for PC gamers to sign in. Nice buttons are available here: http://steamcommunity.com/dev (Just so no one thinks I'm trying to be sneaky, I should mentio...

feature-request status-completed

Noctrine

More higher repped users would be better

Downvoter

and then get Joe to blog about it somewhere

Noctrine

Steam's OpenID implementation is broken isn't it?

Downvoter

14:56

I could successfully login to gaming

FallenAngelEyes

I haven't tried with my Steam account yet.

Downvoter

Test Steam OpenID

1

Macha

It was, but I think they fixed it.

FallenAngelEyes

Juan, is your avatar a unicorn with a heart behind it?

Chacha102

no

thats coral

Downvoter

14:57

here's a bigger picture

Noctrine

Everyone's identicon is cooler than mine.

Mana

"Your horse isn't gay. It's merely standing near a rainbow."

Downvoter

Downvoter, Terminus E17 Colony

17.6k 2 21 60

discussion feature-request support area51 reputation bug status-completed

Chacha102

it is from an April Fools Joke where all the avatars were turned into Unicorn-atars

Macha

@FallenAngelEyes It's from unicornify.

Noctrine

14:58

gravatar.com/avatar/…

Bigger picture

Oh, that one didn't prettify? booo

Mana

/me sets it as wallpaper

aww no /me support, boo

Macha

@Noctrine I think only a few sites prettify (SE sites, SO/SF/SU, Wiki, Amazon)

FallenAngelEyes

Ah, okay. I'm not a SO user, I first signed up to these sites to support the Gaming proposal.

Noctrine

Thought images did in general

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