The Bridge

James

20:00

@KevinvanderVelden No, objects added methods to data types

Kevin van der Velden

I have yet to see an implementation of object oriented programming build into lua

James

C now supports that but it didnt, structs could not have methods

Yuuki

Can you imagine Arthur coding Camelot in Lua? "And here we have the Round Chair."

James

@KevinvanderVelden still classes?

Avery

an example we were given about why we shouldn't use it was "what if you call .stop() for like a process but something gets changed and stuff and the dynamic is replaced with a pacemaker and you stop that?" and that's like the dumbest thing ever like what's a pacemaker doing in your daily project anyways and if you're working somewhere and it's their codebase then why is QA slacking this much and stuff

Kevin van der Velden

20:01

@James where's the language feature? I see a metatable, that's not classes

James

If you can give me a better description of what you are considering first class language feature of a class @KevinvanderVelden then I could give you a better answer

Yuuki

@cazc_941 I think you might like the new King Arthur movie if you haven't seen it already.

Kevin van der Velden

That's not object oriented programming, it can be used to build classes but it isn't a class

Unionhawk

@Avery that might be the dumbest example I've ever heard

The Mattbat999

@KevinvanderVelden I do know C isn't object oriented

Unionhawk

20:01

The real reason is that most of the time you don't need it so why not strongly type things

Kevin van der Velden

@TheMattbat999 you can build it in C, just like you can in Lua

cazc_941

@Yuuki I was gonna see that at the drive in and ended up not being able to go

Yuuki

It's directed by Guy Ritchie and I think you liked his Sherlock and The Man From U.N.C.L.E..

Avery

@Unionhawk ikr

cazc_941

I didnt see the man from uncle yet but I heard it was real good

James

20:02

@KevinvanderVelden Why?

Because the word isnt class? You are seriously just stuck on the syntax of the language?

The Mattbat999

@KevinvanderVelden didn't know

James

I honestly find Lua calling their objects Tables more useful than Python calling their dictionaries Classes.

Avery

python has weird naming stuff

Kevin van der Velden

@James no, a first-class implementaiton of object oriented programming needs to have things like inheritance

James

@Avery dynamic should be a last resort

Kevin van der Velden

20:04

Lua does not have that implemented into the language, you can implement it at runtime sure, but that does not make it a language feature (see C)

Avery

@James ofc

Kevin van der Velden

(heck, see assembly)

James

@KevinvanderVelden They have inheritance and it literally works just like it does in Python.

Yuuki

@Avery Why is the example always a pacemaker?

James

Seriously man.. the bare bone language? Phyton and Lua are 90% identical.

Kevin van der Velden

20:05

@James no, people have written libraries to support it, that is quite different from the language having it

Yuuki

Secondly, if someone is haphazardly swapping pacemakers into your code, I think dynamic typing is the least of your problems.

James

@KevinvanderVelden Yeahhh you are wrong.. I give up trying to convince you otherwise.

Yuuki

@James Is that like coding for photosynthetic bacteria?

Avery

@Yuuki because you can kill thousands of people singlehandedly with the code! what is qa! what is human testing! what is automated testing! what is code review!

James

@Yuuki No :)

They are both C environments wrapped in a dictionary style data structure for data object tracking. They both extend these interfaces to provide associated data and logic and allow for inheritance. Their syntax is different but they are like handing a coding spec to two different people and getting both results.

They both have basic level io capabilities and allow for easy extension of an underlying system (I would argue Lua is easier to do this but that may just because I've done that more often)

Kevin van der Velden

20:09

Lua is definitely easier to extend in C

Also, y u start arrays at 1? Y u no continue?

James

@KevinvanderVelden Refer to earlier python offering coroutines and NOT being multithreaded as why I think its not worth using :P

And yeah the whole 1 thing is easier for non-programmers to grasp

GodEmperorDune

@fredley campaign complete, i have saved the galaxy and pilfered sweet sweet alien loot in the process

James

So its aimed at designers and such from game engines

Kevin van der Velden

Is lua multithreaded? Isn't the method for lua multithreading "Oh, just start another VM"

That's what I remember of it

Oh god pcall, I remember that hell

James

@KevinvanderVelden lua.org/pil/9.html

Lua has a form of coroutines but its the same as Pythons.. time sliced.

But yeah underneath if you want multiple threads you simply need multiple lua states

Lua is meant to be used from Both sides.. Python is not.. so i guess that is one difference :D

Kevin van der Velden

20:12

Then I misunderstood, I read that you were saying that lua is multithreaded

James

No, I was just saying that its not.. and it causes me grief in Python cause I cant fix it or get people to use it right

Which has lead to an ustable system which now Literally has to have a cron job to restart our nginx sysytem to clear up bad 'threads' in python when they dont even exist.

... Python is just a headache in a full production environment .. or so has been my experience the last 2 years.

Kevin van der Velden

That sounds like user error

James

coder error

Kevin van der Velden

Coders are users of a programming language =p

(though yes, python multithreading is... icky at best)

James

But language allowed due to using words that mean Very different things in general programming than what it actually does

The logic is sound if the system was actually multi threaded.. but since its not its a fake pathway and has led to a setup that I am glad to have washed my hands on

And absolutely FEAR if I ever have to work with that developer again (though I told the CEO I simply would not nor would I let him on the team I am leading).

Kevin van der Velden

20:15

Huh, since when does python have await?

Avery

3.6 I think, or 3.5

murgatroid99

I think that's within the last couple of minor versions

James

Oh, One thing I do like about Python that no other language has is how their With statement works

I honestly wish C#'s using() worked like that

Kevin van der Velden

3.5 does

@James not 100% sure I like the ability to swallow exceptions but cool otherwise

James

@KevinvanderVelden It allowed us to make sure locks in Redis are released even if someone writes code so awesome it throws exceptions

It kept the system from crashing or resources from being locked

As a system designer.. that is a Very useful thing :D

Kevin van der Velden

20:17

I mean, that's just regular with/using. I'm talking about the ability for code in the __exit__ to swallow an exception and keep it from bubbling up

James

@KevinvanderVelden an exception in C# does not go to the using() {} blocks 'exit'

with lockmgr.Lock(onwhatever): in python makes sure that an exception wont leave that behind like it would in other languages.

Kevin van der Velden

@James an exception in C# will still call Dispose

What python does in addition to that is allow __exit__ to decide "This exception that was thrown, I will now eat it so we can continue on"

(Heck, behind the scenes using is just syntactic sugar for var (*using code*) try { *bla* } finally { *used object*.Dispose(); })

James

@KevinvanderVelden The other difference is the Dispose() does not know of the exception.

I use exceptions as errors

Kevin van der Velden

@James I generally think that's a good thing

James

I use consuming them when they are expected (file not found, create a new one for example) in a good flow.

So that does not bother me in Python, it was something I found useful

(I had to write a large block of data caching code that would happen automatically with out other developers having to do anything)

Kevin van der Velden

20:26

@James is that a thing for the with object though?

James

(using a with statement wrapping around all execution paths was the solution and the receiving of exceptions allowed me to make sure the data cache was unmuxored if they wrote bad code)

Sooo yeah :) for me the with statement allowed me to slide all this into place and handle them not being perfect developers (and no one is..) all the time.

Kevin van der Velden

Yegh, sounds to me like a code smell doing it that way

James

@KevinvanderVelden Code Smell?

Kevin van der Velden

If the code gives an exception just fix it before throwing the exception

James

And my work completely hijacked the underneaths of Python to do what it does :D

Kevin van der Velden

20:29

Code smell

Code smell, also known as bad smell, in computer programming code, refers to any symptom in the source code of a program that possibly indicates a deeper problem. According to Martin Fowler, "a code smell is a surface indication that usually corresponds to a deeper problem in the system". Another way to look at smells is with respect to principles and quality: "smells are certain structures in the code that indicate violation of fundamental design principles and negatively impact design quality". Code smells are usually not bugs—they are not technically incorrect and do not currently prevent the...

James

Oh very true

the problem needs to be fixed @KevinvanderVelden

But when your game is pulling in 1m USD a week any down time is bad.

Report the error, but dont take out server.

Dont corrupt the data for other users, keep the system in tact.

From a production stand point the code smells like pinesol ;)

Kevin van der Velden

Yeah but you don't need to do that in the thing responsible for acquiring a connection to a thing

Separation of concerns man =p

Or cat, I don't judge

fredley

@KevinvanderVelden pls don't smell Porkchat code

@GodEmperorDune Still haven't triggered starting it :(

Kevin van der Velden

@fredley I shall not, instead I shall go to bed!

James

@KevinvanderVelden My system was to replace a data loading system with a data caching system that would ensure data integrity for use through out the execution of single endpoint. This would basically 'leak' memory if the references were not cleared up due to exception errors. This just made sure the references were cleaned up regardless of how the call ended...

Avery

20:33

@fredley it smells like porkchop

James

Sorry if I mislead ya to thinking there is a connection negotiation in this :D

the data cache can be updated/invalidated from an outside source was the catch.

Kevin van der Velden

@James still shouldn't matter what the exception is =p

James

It doesnt

Kevin van der Velden

Then it's just regular with/using? I have no problem with that, that is absolutely fine and not a code smell

James

Any exception that is unhandled will not leak memory and then go on its merry way to our bug reporting system.

Ooooh

I am NOT stopping the Exception

Kevin van der Velden

20:34

I have a problem with the ability for __exit__ to throw away exceptions

James

This one path dies and throws the error to the logging system.. Yeah yeah

Sorry :D

Kevin van der Velden

Cool

user15026

Aww man I had a really good pun picture for @Yuuki but then I refreshed facebook and lost it :(

James

I am just glad I know an exception Happened so I can do the appropriate checks to maintain the data cache :D

MadMAxJr

Got my coding jam music going.... then all of a sudden a kazoo version of Spear of Justice (Fight with Undyne).

Yuuki

20:35

:(

Fair warning, I may never recover from this blow, @Ash.

user15026

@Yuuki Oh nooooooo

Kevin van der Velden

@James so def __exit( self, exc ): if exc is not None: *do extra checks*?

James

Basically

Kevin van der Velden

That's a usecase for the feature I hadn't considered, I dislike the feature less now

James

Clean up any references to the local cache and make sure the local cache is dereferenced

Kevin van der Velden

20:36

The being able to swallow it is still something I can't think of a non-ugly use for

James

Our data cache is like 120mb or so.. not bad on its own, 10 of em is a problem :D

C# has a global exception handler

All stuff can trickle up to there for general 'Something went bad let people know' handling

cazc_941

Grumpy Shark - Absurd Extravaganza (Fabro The Necromancer's Theme)

►

James

a with() statement around your main() call in python could do the same thing and just consume the exception and gracefully exit the app instead of appearing to crash.

user15026

I FOUND IT

James

Your 'global handler' would handle it

user15026

20:38

It's probably something the world has already all seen but it made me laugh, so

Kevin van der Velden

@James that's what try...except is for =p

James

Granted.. that is basically the only use I can think of for that :D

Haha

user15026

2

James

using is a try finally, why is with being a try exit any different? :D

Yuuki

@Ash hue

James

20:39

@Ash .... Oi le /facepalm

cazc_941

simgretina made an OST for a cartoon that doesn't exist. I love it

Grumpy Shark - Original Soundtrack 1

►

user15026

@Yuuki I hope it was worth the wait

Kevin van der Velden

@James try finally is different from try except, finally is just this is done after the code block regardless of if an exception is thrown

Yuuki

@Ash And if they flew over a cow pasture, they'd be called cudgels.

Kevin van der Velden

Except is "Oh hey an exception happened, let us do something with the exception"

Avery

20:40

@Ash haha nice

user15026

@Yuuki aaaaaaaaaaugh yes you made it even more worse

James

@KevinvanderVelden isnt a finally with the exception just a combination of that?

python is a 'we have exited, was it cause of an exception?' sorta deal.

Kevin van der Velden

@James no, finally doesn't know if an exception happened and doesn't do anything with the exception. try, throw, finally wil still throw the exception outward. try, throw, except will not throw it outward

Yuuki

@Ash And if they flew over a locksmith's shop, they'd be pelvic floor exercises.

user15026

@Yuuki hahahahahahahahaha oh boy

James

20:43

@KevinvanderVelden try except finally just handles the exception in the block before the finally.. the exit lets you check for an exception and except {} it if you want or pass it on but still do your bit of the finally and then either be the authoritative .. HOW DID I END UP DEFENDING PYTHON

:P

Go to sleep man :D I have to go to a sprint planning meeting, heh

Kevin van der Velden

You don't need __exit__ for that at all

Avery

what why does github universe cost 600$

James

@KevinvanderVelden I like languages that have different ways of doing things :)

Kevin van der Velden

I dislike reinventing the wheel in more opaque ways

James

@Avery Dunno.. I also wonder what could be their topics of conversation other than 'Can you PLEASE release your large binary file support to all of us NOW!!!!' :D

Kevin van der Velden

20:46

I dislike that __exit__ can do anything it want to the exception and you can't see it clearly

James

@KevinvanderVelden I dont disagree but the exit doesnt bother me any more than the rest of that language that i do not like to begin with :)

Yuuki

@Ash I'm trying to work in "mangle" somewhere but having much less success.

If they flew over a city, they'd be arrested for assault and battery?

Avery

@James "can you please stop wasting money, pay interns and stop being shitty about diversity when you're talking about how great you are at it"

Kevin van der Velden

Bed \o

James

@Avery Ive yet to see a company that you cant complain about.. I just use their service and as soon as we can get into the big data file support my life is easier

@KevinvanderVelden Cheers man.. Thanks for that using->Dispose point out

Avery

20:49

@James ofc, no one is perfect, but some are less perfect than others

James

Im rusty with my C# :D

Avery

hides her hundred something repos on github

James

@Avery When we stop burning crops while we have thousands of homeless just to keep the prices from deflating so we dont have more homeless Ill worry about a corporate structure of a privately owned company... are they still a privately owned company? :D

Hehe

last 3 companies I have worked at use github

I have 10 private repos but dont use em really

Gave a few out to minecraft mod devs

fiddle with thigns form time to time.. but not time for hobby programming (yet)

I was made Tech Director a couple of months ago

Its AWESOME to be able to tell others how we are doing things :D

Its also nice to be able to build up a tech stack as I want.. that may lead to me easily making a hobby project a possibility :D

But now... 2 hours of wearing a headset for a sprint planing meeting :D

GodEmperorDune

@Avery waaaaaat

Lazers 2.0

-1

Q: io.netty.channel.Abstractchannel$annottedsocketException: Permission denied: no further information MInecraft issue

io.netty.channel.Abstractchannel$annottedsocketException: Permission denied: no further information is the message i get when i try logging in on my minecraft servers every single one

minecraft

GodEmperorDune

20:53

@Ash hue

Avery

@GodEmperorDune as of right now I have 108 repos though some are forks and some are private so eh

26 private repos

James

@Avery ... That is a lot...

Why so many?

Yuuki

By comparison, I have 0 repos on Github.

Well, I think I used to have access to one private one.

Avery

@James idk

I tend to release most projects I write

badp

When I make releases I out then on gist because I don't want to give the impression that the thing is production quality or anything

They're 80/20 enough to match exactly my needs and no more

Avery

21:04

oh yes I use gist for terrible code too

Yuuki

Hmm... can you require (RequireJS) filepaths instead of module names?

Ronan

@Yuuki I think if you require('./module')

Yuuki

And require('./modules/specific.js') should point the modules folder at the same level as the js file?

Oh well, that's why it didn't work.

I was using obfuscated js files.

And we use a slightly different filename schema for those.

cazc_941

v.43 | Monolith Rising

►

MadMAxJr

21:27

Whoops. A little too into my music. Apparently I've been toetapping to the beat quite audibly.

user15026

21:39

Okay, I know what they're going for but local career college posted an ad for their info night and it features the following sentence: "You could develop games for some of the hottest companies or develop games that get downloaded from the Google and iTunes app stores!"

user15026

I like that it is one or the other

user15026

@Yuuki At one point I had access to something on Github but I don't know if I still do (it was being used as a recipe collection)

ToxicFrog

Github accounts don't expire, AFAIK

user15026

Ah, then perhaps it's still there :)

user15026

@ToxicFrog was there much swimming today?

ToxicFrog

21:53

There was!

It was fun

And damp

user15026

I'd be worried if it was dry :P

fredley

@Ash Perhaps they meant OR, as in, instead of XOR

user15026

@fredley Knowing who made the ad, I doubt that...

Avery

22:13

Let's go, Samson! https://t.co/nAXEEo2Inz

Tweeted by Arbys on September 26, 2017 at 4:26 PM

cc @Fluttershy you showed interest to the last one I tihnk

was it you

Fluttershy

@Avery Skullgirls! :D

And yes.

Avery

22:31

Ataribox aims high with $250-300 price point, Linux core, custom AMD chip

(should I move this to tif?)

user15026

I don't see why

Lazers 2.0

22:45

-1

Q: I need a script i can run in notepad that will make me run /. every 20 minutes in minecraft

So i play on a server that doesn't allow afk pools but the mods are OK if you use notepad scripts (they don't want u to ruin keyboards with rocks)can someone help me?

minecraft minecraft-commands

Yuuki

Stardew Valley Switch Update, we've been approved. Working on finalising a release date with all parties involved. Will continue to inform!

Tweeted by Tiyuri on September 26, 2017 at 8:05 PM

← 1 message moved from This Is Fine

Unionhawk

PSA https://t.co/VVPiSn0OAf

Tweeted by StuntBirdArmy on September 26, 2017 at 10:09 PM

SaintWacko

23:04

I'm scared to refresh my home computer

Will Porkchat go away?

It did not

Whew

@Yuuki Does that mean they'l be adding touch support to the pc game?

That would be amazing

I want to play it on my Surface

Wipqozn

They finally announced a release date for golf story too. Comes out in 2 days.

There's been barely any information on the game, and they waited really long to announce their "summer 2017" release date, so hoping it's good.

The Mattbat999

StrixVaria

23:19

@TheMattbat999 The air prevents the chips from getting crushed during transport.

If that weren't a concern they'd just use smaller bags that more accurately fit the weight of chips they want to sell per package.

You're buying by weight, not volume.

user15026

Yeah, if you just took the air out you'd have smushed chip bits

The Mattbat999

@StrixVaria I just thought it was funny

user15026

It's a bad use of that meme

user15026

because it's not logical

The Mattbat999

@Ash nothing about the internet is logical, when you think about it

user15026

23:22

Wrong.

Chippies

@StrixVaria it's also not air, but some gas to keep the chips from going stale

user15026

So basically, the bag is a very necessary pillow!

The Mattbat999

@Ash right

user15026

okay

The Mattbat999

@Ash okay

user15026

23:31

long suffering sigh

The Mattbat999

@Ash continues to enjoy MASH and ice cream

StrixVaria

@TheMattbat999 Making unfounded and disruptive claims, then sitting back to enjoy yourself while others are upset because of those claims, is 100% classic troll behavior and is ban-worthy.

I recommend losing that smug attitude.

The Mattbat999

@StrixVaria ok

badp

The demonic Breath Of The Wild mod community needs to be stopped https://t.co/RJwrQVezz9

Tweeted by Nibellion on September 26, 2017 at 10:56 AM

Avery

@badp I need one of those

user15026

23:49

Blergh, that image hurts my brain

The Mattbat999

@badp is that a... spongebob shield?

badp

yes

The Mattbat999

@badp cool. Is it Link holding it?

badp

yes

the sbahj filter protects you from the harshness of the true reality

The Mattbat999

@badp could you show it without the filter. As @Ash said, that is beginning to hurt my eyes

badp

23:53

it's on the tweet

user15026

@TheMattbat999 no, I said it hurt my brain. Different problem

badp

why do you think I posted the tweet

The Mattbat999

@Ash oh....

user15026

My problem is more "this is a thing that exists" and less "my eyes hurt"

quartata

I've seen far worse mods

badp

23:55

I mean it's no obligatory dragon is now thomas the tank engine mod

quartata

Although I am impressed that they're bothering to figure out how to mod BOTW for something so useless

The Mattbat999

@quartata yes. I seen a mod that allowed you to be a My Little Pony character with a lightsaber

On Skyrim

quartata

@badp that mod is pretty good tho

@TheMattbat999 MLP mods are more or less universal

The Mattbat999

@badp seen that too. I seen one where the drago ns were Mach Men

Avery

@quartata it's canon on tf2 too

Wipqozn

23:56

OH THERE WE GO

CONFUSION CLEARED UP

TAKE THAT @Unionhawk

All this time I thought I got a new card and number

The Mattbat999

@Wipqozn ?

Unionhawk

@Wipqozn no

Wipqozn

but it was some special "we love you please get a second card" promo

which I was too late to do (And wouldn't have done anyways)

Avery

best item 2016

Wipqozn

so I didn't really need to do anything with my old card yet

IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW

quartata

23:58

@Avery that's a unicorn though

Avery

@quartata it has mlp voicelines

quartata

@Avery oh right I forgot

RedRiderX

The record is being purged!

Wipqozn

IKEA 2017 HYPE

@MBraedley you camping out tonight for the ikea opening?!?!?!

I don't see you around, but you must be coming

Transcript for