teespring.com/gnog

TFW a popup asks if the page was useful 2 seconds after navigating to said page

"LIKE THIS STORY? SIGN UP FOR OUR NEWSLETTER" "But I haven't even gotten to read three words yet"

@TimStone I can sign you up for my blacklist :)

bleh

Before the event DePaul asked Milo him to pay $1,000 for security costs—only, he points out, to then fail to intervene when his tormentors stormed the stage. He told Heat Street: “I will be asking for my money back.

“What I’m surprised by is that the security, which I paid a thousand dollars for otherwise they threatened they would cancel [the event], refused to remove somebody from the stage who threatened to hit me. It’s so shocking,

@Dragonrage wat

ugh

@GodEmperorDune reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-idUSKCN0YG1VB

> Make America Hate Again

America already hates

> Make Hate Grate Again

Law students given option to avoid learning about certain laws if they find the subject distressing

wtf

@GnomeSlice You might not want to take the Daily Mail seriously.

It's true though, just the most succint article I could find about it

heatst.com/culture-wars/…

also

(fake account)

aw they cited it thinking it was the real one

still

@GnomeSlice The main source in that article seems to be tweets that link to the daily mail article

@murgatroid99 You're right. Do daily mail regularly publish fake news?

> Great news for us middle aged guys - we need have no fear of the special snowflakes overtaking us in the workplace! Not, that is, until workplaces start adding stuffed animal rooms to help millenials cope with the trauma of someone disagreeing with them!

It's a tabloid

lol

@GnomeSlice I don't think they publish outright falsehoods, but they're known for being biased and sensationalist at the expense of accuracy

The university said that is has no position on this matter and that lecturers are free to warn students about things if they feel it's appropriate

Obviously if you're unfamiliar with the bulk of the course material as a result you won't pass

I guess that makes sense.

@TimStone seems like a nonissue to me

It is a nonissue, but people like to opine on how "fragile" students are now

Right, those headlines imply that you can just skip learning about certain laws, but the content seems more to say that you can skip certain lectures, but you still have to know the material. Like every college class ever

One more

When I see "think tank", I automatically read "biased op-ed generator"

@TimStone i heard somewhere that todays college students have stress levels similar to that of people that were in institutes for mental breakdowns a few generations ago, or something to that extent

not sure how accurate it is though

@murgatroid99 pretty much

It's worth noting that there are a lot of types of law, too, so someone who is emotionally triggered by retellings of rapes or brutal murders might go on to be a copyright lawyer, or whatever

(I don't know what UKIP is but looks like some sort of conservative british party)

@murgatroid99 welp, guess I lost that one too

> “These are inherently complicated issues but the pendulum may have swung too far away from favouring free speech. The soft support for freedom on campus challenges many of the core tenets of academia, such as the view that universities should sometimes be challenging, even difficult, places. Where else is there the time, resources and knowledge to discuss the issues facing the world?

now that I agree with at least

Why? I haven't seen that at all.

@GnomeSlice i still don't get how trigger warnings are anti-free speech

these things are orthogonal

It's not an issue of free speech in the majority of cases though, it's an issue of forced listening. People like to complain that free speech is being crippled when in reality people are exercising their speech to say they don't want to be a part of that

> Higher education institutions should redouble their efforts to discuss the challenges, threats and limits to free speech with their students. Otherwise, no one can guarantee that higher education will continue to offer a space in which good ideas defeat weak ones through open debate.

yes

> The average high school kid today has the same level of anxiety as the average psychiatric patient in the early 1950’s.

@TimStone by banning speakers?

Which speakers were banned?

@GnomeSlice it depends on the why

And banning speakers is completely within free speech

> 76% of students express some support for the National Union of Students’ No Platform policy (and 27% think UKIP should be banned from speaking at universities)

@twobugs Why does one side get to ban speakers from the other side?

In fact, saying you can't ban speakers is anti-free speech

@GnomeSlice Bwuh?

I never said anything like that.

I didn't say you did

@GnomeSlice what are the sides here?

However, you have to realize many of these far right groups (which tend to be the ones on the receiving end) are literal hate groups

@GodEmperorDune conservative and liberal, usually

I still don't believe the "trigger warning" stuff is as wide-spread and as problematic as some groups want us to believe. There's a huge difference between simply notifying anyone about the contents of a lecture and the presence of e.g. graphic violence, and whatever the tabloids and Breitbart are writing about the doom of civilization

There is no benefit to having literal hate groups publicly speak, and there is arguably harm done by legitimizing them.

are you sure its not "young people don't find our ideas compelling, but we must force them to listen to us anyway"?

@GodEmperorDune I don't think any of the events have mandatory attendance

Is that even a thing?

@GnomeSlice What is wrong with exercising your freedom of speech to act against a hate group?

It's one thing to say you disagree with somebody

it's another thing to try to get them banned from a debate because you disagree with them

that's the whole point of a debate isn't it

@GnomeSlice it depends

@GnomeSlice I don't think they were talking about debates

@GodEmperorDune No

A debate implies that both sides are on equal footing.

Banning a KKK member from a debate is not wrong.

It's completely within the freedoms of the organizer.

I would interpret "speaking at universities" more as "giving a talk" or "lecturing" than "engaging in a debate"

@murgatroid99 Milo Y (and his opponent) were banned from a campus debate about "whether feminism has a problem with free speech"

or something like that

if a group is following normal debate rules, ie not making things up and presenting them as fact, then yes, let them debate. if they are not, sure you can ban them

@GnomeSlice I don't see the problem with banning both sides of a debate either

@GnomeSlice Milo is a proponent of hate.

@twobugs this too

that's less bad yes, but censoring a debate about censorship?

In Milo's case let's not pretend that he a) Doesn't have plenty of platforms to speak from b) Doesn't pick these speaking arrangements specifically because he thrives on this kind of reaction

wtf

The opponent was banned for being a TERF.

I don't know what terf means

That's basically saying "you can have this debate, but we won't sponsor it"

and I disagree on the other thing

@GnomeSlice TERF is Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist

I don't know what that means either

And you can't say Milo isn't a proponent of hate when he frequently gets in trouble for inciting harassment

@GnomeSlice Radical feminists who hate trans-women

@GnomeSlice Telling people "you can't have this debate here" isn't censorship. It's not like you're arresting them. They can just go have it somewhere else

Let me guess, feminists who don't like tr- yep

@twobugs that's fuct

It's not "don't like".

It's "actively want to exclude".

The university banned both of them because they both violated their policy for safe spaces for students

That's entirely within THEIR free speech rights.

It's still free speech even if you disagree.

the talk was to be held in a safe space?

@GnomeSlice the university probably didn't want a brawl to break out in the auditorium or whatever

@AshleyNunn what in the fuck

@AshleyNunn and they're just... not allowed to talk about that?

@GnomeSlice Yes, a university

@GnomeSlice You seem to be ignoring the difference between "you can't talk about this" and "you can't talk about this here"

The university is using free speech to stick up for their students

@GnomeSlice You're allowed to talk about almost everything. You're not guaranteed an audience for whatever you want to talk about

@murgatroid99 No, I understand that part, that's fine

And not endorsing speakers who are actively harmful to their students

which students?

Milo with women, the TERF with trans people.

@AshleyNunn these are HUMAN rights, not cis rights, not male rights, i just .... i don't even

I'm sorry, but the Milo stuff is long and well documented. It's not really up for a debate.

those people don't have to go to the talk

unless they want to, which is great too

@GnomeSlice The University is the one hosting the talk. It's their rules.

@GnomeSlice And the university doesn't have to give those speakers a platform to talk in the first place

@twobugs Yep, and they're being dumb

It's the same right, and the same choice

You are upset the university is exercising their right to free speech because they don't agree with you.

@GnomeSlice which means the question is "who does the university want to exclude, those speakers, or a significant proportion of their female and trans students"

@murgatroid99 You're right, they don't legally have to

You are being hypocritical.

still dumb

@GnomeSlice and they decided to exclude the speakers

@ToxicFrog that's dumb

@GnomeSlice basically milo and the TERF's right to speak does not outweigh everyone else's right to safety

someone is getting excluded either way; the university had to make a choice.

@GodEmperorDune ...safety?

@GnomeSlice Yes, safety.

@GnomeSlice Well, a statement this vague is certainly hard to argue with

Milo isn't going to shoot up the school

Particularly not the people who choose not to go to his debate

Milo openly encourages disparaging women, to put it lightly.

The right to choose which speakers to endorse and not endorse is still free speech.

@Unionhawk Yes, exactly.

@AshleyNunn I guess that actually explains a lot, now that I think about it

Regardless

@Unionhawk I have not disagreed with that

@GnomeSlice You seem to only be for free speech when people agree with you

You can use your free speech for dumb

@twobugs so do you?

@GnomeSlice personally, I wouldn't feel safe around the kind of people who would want to see MIlo speak, even if I trusted him personally to toe the line, and I don't even present female

Cool, but you said they were dumb for exercising their right the way they wanted

@AshleyNunn Most speakers aren't paid (some are, which is even more reason to protest the decision in some cases)

@GnomeSlice How do I only support free speech for people who agree with me?

Since you don't agree with their decision or whatever

@Unionhawk "I wanted to steal this thing so it's not dumb ok"

I'm not the one saying everyone has to listen to Milo

I

I can't even

What

use your words

@GnomeSlice So, the school is dumb for using their rights to choose not to sponsor a speaker who is using their rights in a (different) dumb way

WHAT YOU JUST SAID MAKES NO GODDAMN SENSE