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23:00
@Frank sounds like we need a lifehack to get a refund on Elite:Dangerous
Is it bad that I can kinda see where they're coming from with the "No refunds for beta players" thing?
its bad when they state no refunds peroid
I think there's a difference between "we'd be able to deliver offline" and "we'll deliver offline"
@Fluttershy It's not like the company held a beta out of the goodness of their hearts, I'm sure those beta players contributed some data that the company found useful
no thats sounds pretty much the same
23:04
what
@Fluttershy Yes that makes you a horrible person or something
@Virusboy There's a pretty clear difference between the two.
Can I ban you right now? Yes, I have the ability. Will I ban you for saying that? No.
ok point made
@Unionhawk The way I see it... You go to a restaurant and order a steak, medium. They bring you your steak. It's well done, but you eat it anyway. And then, after you've eaten 90% of the steak, you ask for your money back because it wasn't cooked the way you wanted it.
23:05
the thought I had is why make the statement if your not going to though?
Yeah I know.
@Fluttershy its more like you ordered a steak with some appetizers as part of a combo, ate the appetizers, then they told you they were out of steak
I would say that they should do partial refunds, if not full
@Fluttershy I think it's more like
Yeah I dont think they should do refunds
...what @MattGiltaji said.
Maybe the other way around though.
23:08
@badp Got your steak (full game), but no appetizer (offline mode)?
You order steak with sliced onion and peas and you get steak, and later sliced pumpkin and broccoli
They should only do refunds if they plan to do a full wipe
How will you get refunds just on the appetizers when you've already started eating your steak?
if they sucked @Badp
@badp figure out the price difference for the beta vs full game, do math, then don't let them have a full copy if they get a refund and played the beta
23:10
@MattGiltaji How do you link kickstarter and Steam accounts?
@badp email address
@MattGiltaji I hope you never design databases :P
steam doesn't do refunds iirc
@Unionhawk Steam does when you ask nicely. That's what it seems like.
Guys funding the development of something is not the same as purchasing a final product
You can donate cash to raise a cow and get a good steak out of it as a comparison to a kick starter
23:11
@James If your donation rewards is a copy of the game, then you've bought a copy of the game.
@badp Ask nicely, and is to the effect of "I didn't mean to buy this game" or something
Buying the game after release would be getting a steak with the sides that offend you
My understanding is Steam is just the conduit
No matter how much fancy embellishments you put around it.
Not "I played this game in beta and don't like it now."
23:12
@badp lol, joining tables across two separate companies is never going to be clean... email address is closest to a primary key you'll get
@badp Actually according to the kickstarter EULA, No, Its not
@badp No.
@James You have a contract that says "I give you $200 and, if you make the game, I get a copy of it."
That is the very definition of a purchase, except with that caveat.
That caveat is immaterial here as the game has been made. So it's just a really early preorder.
@badp Read Kickstarter's agreements man. You are not guaranteed anything they say in those tiers
TBH it helps on how the beta is deinfed
23:13
And games -never- end up being what they set out to be.
@James UNACCEPTABLE
then leave the Kickstarter
1
Q: What's different in the 3 versions of Kingdom Hearts 2?

Memor-XMore of less the same thing i asked here but this time referring to Kingdom Hearts 2 as i have played the PAL Release on PS2 and would like to know the differences between that and Final Mix and what may have been added to that in 2.5 HD Remix

(sorry, if you can't tell, I find the "beta backers should get refunds" thing to be a bit ridiculous)
@Unionhawk Indeed if that is the way you find it, then I suggest you only buy games that are fully released or purchase them solely based on what they are.
23:15
@James See above :)
@Unionhawk Haha Sarcasm is some times lost, you should have used Toilet :D
> When a project is successfully funded, the creator must complete the project and fulfill each reward. Once a creator has done so, they’ve satisfied their obligation to their backers. [...] If a creator is unable to complete their project and fulfill rewards, they’ve failed to live up to the basic obligations of this agreement.
@Unionhawk You should if there is an intended wipe. Blizzard did do the same thing when second AT wipe occured
Same thing happened when I was beta testing Cosmic Break.
Here's the thing with that particular case. The beta level was like $150 (100 GBP iirc). They don't want people to now go "I don't like this thing I want that money back".
They can't have people doing that
I'm sorry, you totally buy things on Kickstarter. You shouldn't go to Kickstarter with the idea of buying stuff, but that's what you end up doing.
23:17
@Unionhawk thats only the case if beta is defined as early release
Kickstarter Basics: Accountability

Who is responsible for completing a project as promised?

It's the project creator's responsibility to complete their project. Kickstarter is not involved in the development of the projects themselves.

Kickstarter does not guarantee projects or investigate a creator's ability to complete their project. On Kickstarter, backers (you!) ultimately decide the validity and worthiness of a project by whether they decide to fund it.
@James So what?
@badp Kickstarter does not present a binding contract between what is offered and what is received
@Virusboy I'm confused. What are you talking about?
sounds irresponsible @James
23:18
They promise NOTHING to you as a backer
@James No, because the creator does.
beta
@badp THey say it is the creators responsibility
@James Yes.
But I see no where on the site saying they have to do it
Just that they should
and that when they dont
Games are allowed to release private alphas and betas without going through steam early access
Kickstarter means nothing in the process of getting them to pony up
that is a thing that exists
That's the bit I've linked to.
23:19
I give up @badp
Yes that is often done
So what the hell does early access have to do with anything
You can point to a website that says spaghetti monster is a real diety and you should worship it
Its ONLY the legal responsibility parts of a website that are of any consequence.
@Unionhawk idk any more
@James I can point to like a quarter of the internet that says that tbh
23:21
@Unionhawk Doesnt make it any more enforceable in a court of law :)
Although
I would LOVE to see a lawyer go "But your honor, according to 4 chan ... "
Actually, no, people have pulled off pasta strainers as religious headwear
so...
@Unionhawk How did that turn out?
@Powerlord Seems pretty pointless.
@James its a bit ambigous to hold up in court but it would give Kickstarter an issue to change it
23:22
I remember the article but not how it turned out :D
@badp Seems like a way to get rid of cards you don't want
If you didn't already market them like some people that is
@Virusboy They did, They removed their accountability in a project manager fulfilling any rewards.
@James I remember some post of someone's driver's license picture with a pasta strainer hat. DMV said take it off, they said it's religious headwear pastafarianism etc.
So fulfilling any rewards is purely the PMs decision and is final?
@Powerlord how many gems do you get per item?
23:23
@Unionhawk Yeah that was what I remember. I just dont recall seeing what decision was made over it.
@Powerlord Sounds like a pretty good time to be selling cards then
I mean, they had the picture, so I assume the DMV person was like "...whatever"
Either people will recycle cards, so you have less offer to compete with, or people will buy cards to make gems, and you have more demand burning through the supply quicker.
This should push prices up either way.
@Badp how useful are they?
@Virusboy "they" being what?
23:25
Cards
@Virusboy Sell 'em on the market.
...or craft 'em for "XP" (usually required to enter seasonal promotions)
you can make pretty badges though
I might sacrifice one card to get the level 2 badge
@badp When did the game in question get funded?
23:26
ugh, can't see gem prices on the mobile app
That sounds like a reasonable thing to do
...you can also craft gems into card booster packs
@James iunno
If it was before Oct 19th then
@Powerlord Probably only useful if you'd like to complete a specific badge and want to rely on your luck
23:27
Project Creators may cancel or refund a Backer’s pledge at any time and for any reason, and if they do so, are not required to fulfill the reward.
It was like, last year
All they have to do in that case is simply say the reward was canceled
Done
TF2 cards are worth 22 gems a piece... it varies by game, though
@James if they wanna do that and still can, more power to them. But that's a different thing from offering a refund.
It'll only increase the flames.
Really I don't think it's an option on the table.
Like I said, they can't offer $150 refunds to people who paid for beta. That would 100% be abused if it happened
23:29
@Unionhawk Which is also what they themselves said.
@Unionhawk on the other hand some form of relief is due, I believe.
Do they give you a key to the full release?
@badp Life aint fair man.
@badp And I disagree.
@Virusboy its an online game, they can invalidate the key
23:30
Thats asking for trouble
Its just another <insert name of that minecraft group game bullshit> incident.. and remember how that turned out? Just a life lesson
@Unionhawk I dunno how it works in yanksland, but here it's pretty clear -- if I have a contract and I uphold my end and you don't, I'm going to sue you and win, and you'd better avoid my suing in the first place.
@badp Let us know how it goes man.. Id actually be interested in how it turns out
you get a horrible rep and pretty much everyone avoids you
That is NOT sarcasm btw.. just in case
23:31
@James I'm not a customer. I didn't buy the game.
@badp ಠ_ಠ
I really don't think saying "we decided that a minimal network requirement should be a thing" is the same as "LOLOL SCREW YOU GUYS NO GAME FOR YOU"
@Unionhawk offline mode vs always online is a big thing in my book
@Unionhawk this is a full online game?
or does it resemble Diablo 3
@Unionhawk if you can prove that the difference between what was promised and what was delivered is significant enough that, had you known, you wouldn't have signed the contract in the first place -- according to what law I've studied, which is the Italian law -- the judge will cancel the contract.
because it's fraud, bait and switch, or whatever you want to call it.
that said, I do agree that the argument is going to be harder for someone who has already played the game
Offline mode is a deal breaker for somebody who, say, has no internet connection that's good enough for the game. If you have played the game... it's going to be tricky.
23:34
The requirement is something like 10kbps
If you can access kickstarter, you probably have that much bandwidth to spare
thats little
@Unionhawk It still wouldn't be playable on 4G connection -- latency, man.
@Unionhawk You can access kickstarter in an internet café.
umm isnt 4G equivlant to a 56k connection?
@Virusboy 4G is quite fast, but latency is still what you should expect from a mobile connection: all over the place
Videogames can work with high latency, but as soon as the latency is unstable or packets start dropping, the game is usually immediately unplayable.
23:36
hmm kinda like a sat connection?
Have never tried a sat connection.
E:D is not the kind of turn-based game that you can play over email.
sat is asymectial
errr can['t spell.
4G would be better I should think
@djsmiley2k so is ADSL.
but its got that 2k ping
23:38
I have ADSL. It's fine to play games with.
but packet loss is miminal
@Unionhawk Surely better than EDGE!
sat is 1 way
down via sat, back via modem
@djsmiley2k ewwwwrgh
What's even the point then?
huh thats pretty old school
23:39
I mean
...if I could use the entire bandwidth on my ADSL line for uplink I'd be pretty happy
Satellite connection is only really available in rural areas I believe
(but then nothing would work)
its availble anywhere, its more marketed in rural areas
23:40
/me think
Sat's probably only good for TV.
and phones
@Virusboy ewwwwrgh, that latency.
Satellite internet is a thing
its alot less than people think
1 second max
23:42
@Virusboy That's still a lot.
1 second is a ton of latency
consider the meduim you're using
voice?
yeah, it's a lot.
it used to be worse
It doesn't matter for TV if your feed is constantly one second off
it's probably much more than 1 second anyway so they can cut off the stream in case of tits
23:43
i like 1 second of ping for never dropping a call and always having bars
It is. Live TV, anyway
GOTTA THINK OF THEM CHILDREN.
I think it's usually in the 7 second range
for TV?
Live TV
23:44
15
because of buffer
AVGN is doing 12 days of shitsmas.
although idk y
unfortunately today's videos is just 3 minutes :(
1
Q: Is there any way to soar on Latias or Latios without mega evolving them?

PyritieWhen you use the Eon Flute to soar on Latias or Latios, you automatically mega evolve them. If you take away their mega stone, the game will transfer it to to them when you soar, even if you give it to a different pokemon to hold. I don't like how their mega evolved forms look like and would lik...

23:59
Also you can already start buying games to count towards Holiday 2014 badges (steamcommunity.com/my/gamecards/335590).
If you are so inclined.

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