Well when Tom Wheeler, the chairman of the FCC, literally refuses to be seen in public so that the people can't ask him questions, someone has to step in and kick him in the ass.

@Powerlord that is really nice to see... but from what I saw it's Obama asking for it. not telling them to do this... I am not completely sure if he has a say on the final decision

And a nice comparison of phones to internet. Communication is communication, whether it's phone or internet.

There is an unprecedented public outcry for net neutrality that the FCC is trying to ignore.

@StrixVaria I don't think the FCC is trying to ignore it. They're trying not to deal with the actual, real issue, which right now is in the ISP interconnections, but I don't believe they're ignoring it.

@StrixVaria He's busy eating babies.

@StrixVaria They're telling everyone they're listening to the public, while plugging their ears and hiding from the public

@StrixVaria ...and the white house putting on the pressure makes it harder to ignore.

Just listening to the ISPs

the FCC is being strong-armed by ISPs

The question is

@StrixVaria didn't they try to do something on net neutrality within the last couple years and get shot down?

Wheeler's been making noise to see if there's support for reclassifying them to Title 2, and with this, we have an unequivocal YES that ISPs should be held to the same standards.

why push for this TODAY and not LAST WEEK

namely comcast

@Rapitor Or Verizon.

Is it kind of like a last cry for political relevance?

@AJHenderson The FCC actually did try to enforce net neutrality, and in the ruling where the court shut it down, they specifically said that they were only shutting it down on a technicality but that they hoped the FCC would try again with a different legal approach.

or setting up the campaign for 2016?

Literally every sane human being values the idea of net neutrality.

> There's something deeply satisfying about Verizon suing the FCC over rules that shouldn't apply to a non-Title II service, winning, and as a result being reclassified and subject to harsher regulation than theyfaced in the first place.

All the ISPs are going to freak out if the FCC takes a hardline stance, and regulates them as Title 2.

The only people who don't are greedy greedface fuckheads.

(This was a comment on an article I'm reading about this)

@StrixVaria aka. ISP CEOs who want to suck all the cash from everybody.

@StrixVaria oh, I agree. I just wasn't sure how that factored in to them burrying their head if they tried in the past

@StrixVaria ah! But the United States is all about "We the People" and corporations are people too :P

FCC is kinda asking for everyone's opinions, then going "Everyone wants Net Neutrality? Well, we'll let the ISPs decide, then."

@Rapitor the day I heard Comcast was buying Time Warner, I cried

I can't wait to see the fallout from this; I expect a massive amount of screaming from every single ISP.

literally

@AJHenderson is it still happening?

@AJHenderson I think the FCC stuck that in some kind of purgatory.

@AJHenderson I'm not sure if that actually went through yet, if/when it does it's all over

@badp I don't know, I haven't followed it much since

mostly out of sheer terror

Yeah, that's at least stuck, if not shot down.

@StrixVaria Yeah, and Comcast is bending over backwards, trying to figure out who to bribe or what to promise to make it happen.

Never mind that they don't ever actually fulfill those promises.

The most hilarious bit is "THERE WILL BE NO REDUCTION IN COMPETITION" because they already split up the pie anyway

Comcast Internet is good I guess, but fuck em

@badp Right?

"invisible hand? how about this very visible bird?"

@badp Yeah, there's really not much competition already

@badp Just moving from an oligopoly to a monopoly.

@StrixVaria WHY WOULD YOU PREVENT TWO HALVES OF THE SAME APPLE TO JOIN TOGETHER

@Rapitor not from what I've heard from anyone that has them

WHY DO YOU HATE TRUE LOVE

@StrixVaria Almost everywhere in North America is a duopoly. And that really needs to change.

that said, I suppose I've heard of some horror stories about time warner, but I've had a pretty good experience other than it being moderately stupidly overpriced compared to FIOS

@AJHenderson I'm the same with my ISP; I just got upgraded to twice the speed for the same cost. I just had to lean on them a bit to make it happen.

And I came out of the deal with the equivalent of seven months and change of free internet.

@Frank if not straight up monopoly. Most of my region, Time Warner is the ONLY high speed option, unless you consider 1mbps-2mbps dsl to be "high speed"

@AJHenderson The FCC just classified broadband as a minimum of 4mbps

@AJHenderson here in southwest florida it's really the only option we have for "high speed internet". and yeah, the customer service is god awful, but the internet is good.. I think I have the mid-tier at 25mb/s

@Frank It's been 4mbps forever, broadband is now 10 iirc

I pay $100 a month for 50/5 internet, where as if FIOS was available on my side of the river, I'd be paying $60 and have 50/50

@Frank Mb or MB?

@Unionhawk Oh, whoops.

@SaintWacko Whichever one is megabit

Probably Mb

Yeah

Google Fiber save us

Okay

Yeah, that's not going to happen.

@Frank yeah, I'm looking forward to moving. That will allow me to come in as a "new subscriber" and get my same level of internet for $65

But implementing these rules as the de facto standard means we'll have MUCH better competition, at least on the service end.

Well, they're proposing to change it to 10 Mbps now, anyway

Dunno where that whole thing is now

But no, 1-2 Mbps DSL is not high speed.

@Unionhawk And, boy, are the mobile ISPs screaming about it.

I need dis

Oh shit

@Frank Yeah, AT&T and Verizon have been fighting it. I think the FCC said "no, we're not keeping it at 4" but I can't find that decision.

@Frank and when the ISP knows I have literally no other option for even marginally passable internet, it isn't like I have much leverage

@Unionhawk I think Wheeler's moving in the right direction, and part of what he was doing was gathering public support, so he can tell the ISPs to fuck it.

there is nobody for me to threaten to leave to go with

I just hope and pray that FIOS will eventually get off their lazy butts and move across the river to where I am

relevant

@AJHenderson About the only thing you CAN do is move elsewhere where there is competition.

They set a certain LTE standard, then the mobile ISPs started calling their service LTE, even though it didn't meet the standard

And ISPs bank on you not doing that to offer shitty service.

So the FCC went "Oh... okay. We'll change the standard, then."

@SaintWacko I think that was pre-Wheeler.

@Frank yeah, sadly, the only places in my region with competition have crappy schools

Who is a whole lot less likely to kowtow to ISP interests, it seems.

@Frank Yeah. It was still disgusting

@SaintWacko Oh, don't get me wrong, yeah, it's horrible.

Really, all we can do at this point is wait for the FCC to respond.

@SaintWacko honestly, that one kind of makes sense though

But I think the FCC is finally moving in the right direction.

if the FCC guideline for what classifies as a level of service is off according to the entire industry, then the term should be changed

And it will have trickle effects up here in the Great White North.

@AJHenderson Validating the ISPs lies?

@AJHenderson The European ISPs met the standards, and then some.

American ISPs just went, "Meh", gave lower speeds, and decided that was LTE.

@Frank it isn't that simple though, we have lower population density and more land space to cover

@AJHenderson What does that have to do with anything?

@AJHenderson So lower population density means there should be lower standards? How so?

in any area that it is economical to cover, I still get CRAZY LTE speeds

@AJHenderson No, you don't

If anything, hitting those speeds should be easier with lower population, not harder.

I've seen 75mbps down/30mbps up on LTE on the S5

Well, technically, you do

yeah. USA size is kind of a detriment to technological progress

Frank, the problem is cost

But only because the standards were changed

it's easy to upgrade to high speed availability if lots of people will be using it

it's not possible to put the newer higher speed gear on a tower that is going to service an average of 3 people a few hours a day

@AJHenderson The American ISPs have been getting millions of dollars in federal subsidies, have 80-90% profit margins on their service, and you want to argue cost?

I'm not even going there. They're greedy fuckwits.

@Frank you won't get an argument from me that they aren't greedy, but they do have a harder problem than Europe

@AJHenderson The problem isn't population density.

uhm... well then

Sony may have a 78% chance of going bankrupt in the next 2 years

if costs were maybe 10 to 20% different between here and Europe, I would consider it fair. But they aren't

They already don't do 100% "LTE" coverage

It's their refusal to expand service into areas they don't want to, despite promising to when they took the subsidies, and then ensuring no one else can by litigating them into the ground.

Just see small municipalities trying to get better service to their citizens; ISPs will sue to ensure it doesn't happen, regardless of whether or not they actually provide service.

yeah, and that's why I hate ISPs

That's actually another thing the FCC is looking to do.

@Frank Even if they know they can't win, because they have the money to burn

Override state laws that currently were spoonfed to them that outlaw municipalities from being town ISPs.

@SaintWacko And they've killed several.

but note that my defense of ISPs was only for mobile providers and only for the slightly lower standard for LTE based on what is feasible over a wider geographic area, and there mostly only because they do keep connection speeds high when they can. That said, don't get me started on paying per GB and the outrageous prices they demand for that

I'll hold my unlimited plan until Verizon pries it from my cold dead hands

@AJHenderson They're actually getting sued right now because they're throttling unlimited plans, to try to push subscribers onto a more lucrative plan for them.

and I only use about 3 or 4 GB of data on average, but I don't want to go bankrupt if my phone malfunctions and goes through 100GB in an evening

@Rapitor I wish there movie branch would go down so some of there rights could revert to the original owners (spiderman)

@Frank hmm, I haven't noticed it. I still get really fast connections

Of course, now with Comcast in a PR tailspin due to all the customer service horror stories, I think it'll have a knock on affect on other ISPs, showing them what can happen when you treat your customers like piggy banks.

@Blem they will probably sell things off if this is true. I don't know

their gaming division is doing great, but let's be honest.. there isnt much money in that after hardware costs and RnD

@Rapitor the question is if they can sell them to anyone but Marvel

I don't see Sony going bankrupt anytime soon. At worst, they would shut down some unprofitable branches

but they have far too many areas where they are market leader

Microsoft can throw money around pretty much endlessly... not so much Sony. I think their purchase of Destiny exclusive may have bit them in the foot

I can see Sony going bankrupt.. I don't want it to happen, but I can definitely see it.

If they went bankrupt, it would be from gross mismanagement. They are basically the world leader in imaging chips right now

everyone and their brother (other than Canon) uses Sony imaging chips

@Blem that would be funnier if the other digits actually were part of pi's sequence

@AJHenderson they are, probably

well, maybe somewhere down the line

but not in the first 100 or so

how much money is in imaging chips, though? enough to sustain an "electronic superpower"?

@Rapitor right, but I'm not saying they would remain a super power

@AJHenderson hence, "lesser-known"

just that they wouldn't go bankrupt

yeah, but most people don't even know 1592653589793238462643383279502

nerd.

:)

More than 10 digits is completely unnecessary for any measurement you could theoretically make in the known universe

@murgatroid99 32 and you are accurate to the size of an electron on a circle the size of the known universe

@AJHenderson 10 and you have a hydrogen atom instead of an electron

we don't even know how big an electron is

but no, that isn't why I know 33 digits, I just had a bet with a friend in HS as to which of us could memorize 100 digits faster

@AJHenderson Who won?

@AJHenderson I guess you lost?

I got to 100 in 3 days and then promptly forgot all but the first 33 over the course of a month

ooooo.

he got it after a week or so

I had to memorize the declaration of independence in high school. That was stupid.

but last I knew, he still remembered 50

@StrixVaria Really? That's weird.

everything I had to "memorize" in school has pretty much been dumped

That's a neat way to tell you "hey there's a new version"

I only had to memorize the pledge of allegiance

too bad that you can only have that when you allow background download of patches

Which, when I say it now, sounds like propaganda.

I do however, still know a lot about nothing

@Rapitor that's what smart phones are for

@Koviko yeah, it's pretty creepy when you think about it later

...nevermind

it was just the soundtrakc

@Koviko it was propaganda then too

@Koviko As a child, I stopped reciting it when I heard a story about kids who refused to recite it, mostly because I was lazy.

As an adult, the pledge of allegiance is terrifying.

the soundtrack has FINALLY released on Steam.

I can't believe we teach our children to recite that.

"Now children, for the daily pledge of your allegiance to the motherland."

@StrixVaria having every kid in America blindly reaffirm their allegiance to the country every single day

That's some brainwash level shit.

The worst part is, I couldn't think of worse words to replace "pledge" or "allegiance" like I did for "country"

It kinda depends on how one interprets the Pledge of Allegiance, but that's not something you expect out of grade-school children.

@StrixVaria Especially when you realize that you kind of stopped paying attention to the words after doing it a thousand times

@murgatroid99 /me gets chills.

Because "the republic for which it stands" can be interpreted in many different ways.

@Yuuki that's pretty clearly "the country"

@murgatroid99 I guess he's talking about the ambiguity of "the government as it currently exists" and "the idealized form of the country".

@Yuuki one could argue it is for the ideal of the country

the ideal of the US is great, even if we haven't looked anything like that since atleast the civil war

@AJHenderson Pretty much, yeah.

because moral issues aside, I suspect that the founding fathers would have said the wrong side won that one

@StrixVaria what's the point of having kids pledge allegiance to an imaginary country?

@AJHenderson I'm sure the founding Fathers would flip multiple tables if they saw the current state of the country

@murgatroid99 I pledge allegiance to the Kingdom of Gondor...

@murgatroid99 There is none, and I agree with your interpretation of the pledge.

@AJHenderson some of them; and some of them would have said the right side won; and some of them would have skipped the meeting for booze and hookers

@Sconibulus true, some were pro-federal

The founding fathers were by no means a monolithic entity

@murgatroid99 I'd say it's more pledging to work towards this ideal country

@Rapitor remember though, that's partly because some of them thought slave-owning was a good thing

but a lot of stuff was put in to limit federal power and the civil war basically said, nope, federal is supreme and states can bend over and take it

That being said, I agree with you guys on the badness of the pledge of allegiance

@Rapitor I'm sure the Founding Fathers would've flipped at seeing a computer, let alone the state of the Union.

@SaintWacko That's not what "allegiance" means

Heck, cars would probably drive (hehe, pun) them crazy.

Eh, cars are not that difficult a concept; horseless carraiges

present technology aside. the actual state of the government would displease them

Planes on the other hand...

Honestly, I stop listening to people whenever they bring up "The Founding Fathers would have...".

@Sconibulus I ain't gettin on no plane

when did steam engines happen?

@Sconibulus thousands of explosions a second inches from your crotch is pretty terrifying

The Founding Fathers would have had a bad time trying to disconnect from Comcast

founding fathers would still be on AOL

@Rapitor yes, but how many people actually understand that even now

@Yuuki The capitalization of "Founding Fathers" is proof that they are much more a concept than they are real people, at this point.

@Rapitor o.0 What kind of car are you driving?

@Rapitor well... yes; but seeing a car doesn't necessarily imply knowledge of the internal combustion engine

@SaintWacko combustion engine 101

The world today is so radically different from 200 years ago that any sort of "Founding Fathers would've wanted..." thinking doesn't apply in my opinion.

I think they'd assume steam

@Yuuki The Founding Fathers would have wanted net neutrality.

@Rapitor No, I mean, what are you driving that has the cylinders inches away from your crotch?

@Yuuki yes and no, the world is different, but people and power don't change

@AJHenderson That's kinda nonsense

@SaintWacko would feet be a better measurement then, you picky person

@Rapitor Yes!

There's an enormous difference!

x/12

A foot is just a dozen inches.

Right

@Sconibulus not really. The mechanisms available change, but the basic ideas remain the same. You divide one group against another so that you can do whatever you want using us vs them

It's different by a factor of 12

this has not changed in 10,000 years

It's just several dozen inches away from your crotch.

@AJHenderson that is an extreme simplification of the government of a country

it plays out differently due to changes in society and technology, but the basic mechanisms remain the same

@Koviko And that is much more comforting than several inches

@AJHenderson It's drastically more difficult to accomplish now given the ease at which people and information travel

well I'm talking about things at a very basic level

Especially when there's a firewall between you and it

@AJHenderson And the changes in technology are so ridiculously vast, that things will play extremely differently.

I'm not arguing the practical implications haven't changed, but the basic concerns of centralized power are if anything, more applicable now than ever

@AJHenderson but changing society and technology create different concerns

I think if I remember right, last century, the one with the world wars, had fewer lives lost in armed conflict worldwide than any century since the pax romana

wait, how did we even get here.

and that isn't correcting for population growth

I think the government is like an online game. When the game is new, people are on a mostly even footing as we all learn the mechanics. But after a long time, the meta game has already settled in and the people who win are the ones who play to the strengths of the meta.

@Koviko That is a very apt analogy

this morning went pizza->internet->sony->founding father->car explosions

the hell

@Koviko And then a team rushes in with a no-ADC comp and spins the meta on its head for a month

Of course, following that analogy...

NERF NOW

@Rapitor welcome to the internet

@SaintWacko Government is OP.

though somehow we have yet to hit cats

I'd rather say "Congress is OP" or "President is OP" but either opinion is politically charged.

@AJHenderson You want to hit cats? With car explosions? You monster.

@Koviko In the first case, if by "OP", you mean "doesn't do squat", then yes.

@Yuuki I'm thinking more like playing a bunker build.

@Koviko President is super OP based on release President

@Yuuki well hey, if the founding fathers were driving a car, I could see them hitting a cat and exploding, thus resulting in Sony going bankrupt and breaking the internet, but we'd atleast still have pizza

@Yuuki The ability to not do squat is still quite powerful

Of course, Release Legislature was designed to be hugely OP

See, everyone talks about Legislature and Executive, but nobody talks about Judiciary's power creep as compared to Release.

@Koviko don't forget courts

they are the only one that can grant themselves new powers

Judiciary has crept less than the other two

Actually, something interesting I hadn't really thought about in terms of the courts: The courtroom is the one place the average person has a real say on the validity of a law.

@AJHenderson Except the american government gave itself the power to execute anyone without the courts

Effectively

If a jury finds you innocent of a crime you committed, they are saying they disagree with the law

And they can do that.

@KevinvanderVelden fair point

That's why jury selection exists, to prevent that from happening too much.

@Koviko jury selection is more a glitch the courts would rather forget is possible

@Koviko yeah, except for when they are given specific instructions not to

which happens WAY more than it should

Even knowing of it's existence is a great way to get out of jury duty

because we can't let people with common sense get in the way of establishing case law the way we want it

@AJHenderson Actually, I wonder if purposely "overthrowing" a law as a jury counts as obstruction of justice.

@AJHenderson or, to put it more charitably: To keep things like lynching illegal

@Koviko I believe that it was actually an intended function, though I'm not a law student, so that could be wrong

@Koviko I'm pretty sure a jury only gets to decide whether a law was broken, not whether it is valid

@AJHenderson People are terrible at understanding "reasonable doubt".

@Koviko it does not, there's a law saying "If the jury says innocent, then there can be no retrial" and another saying "The jury cannot be punished for whatever it says"

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury_nullification

Those combined pretty much give the logical consequence of jury nullification