The Bridge

Batophobia

22:00

4 hours ago, by Unionhawk

Damn you bridge

SaintWacko

@DwarfSlice Flagged and autovalidated!

Ha!

Take that!

murgatroid99

@DwarfSlice Flagged for swearing at a mod

DwarfSlice

@SaintWacko do it for science, see what happens

user4704

I think it should be possible for me to say, "yes that flag was valid" without automatically having to suspend the user :(

DwarfSlice

I am genuinely curious.

@JoshPetrie strikes?

Frank

22:00

@JoshPetrie The answer to mod abuse is more mod abuse.

user4704

Heh.

Lazers

0

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Many old games (Starcraft, Diablo II, Diablo, Age of Kings...) have huge problems displaying colors correctly on Windows 7. For Starcraft, I have succeeded to fix this using: Opening the screen resolution settings dialog (sometimes works) Killing explorer.exe (always works) Using DirectDraw col...

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trove

DwarfSlice

@Lazers It's-a-me!

Unionhawk

@DwarfSlice Mario?

@Batophobia There's a difference between-- no, never mind, if I explain the difference, I'll get flagged.

If I had said "F YOU BRIDGE" minus the self censorship I'd have rightfully gotten banned.

murgatroid99

22:16

Oh hey, according to chat search there is precedent for people using the language I used without getting banned, and funny enough it comes from just the person my message was directed at

Yuuki

Has the SE team revealed anything that might hint that they're actually trying to solve the chat flag problem?

Lazers

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ziggurat

Yuuki

Because it seems that pretty much everyone complains about chat flags.

murgatroid99

@Yuuki Not that I've seen

Origami Robot

@Unionhawk Well fuck that!

user15026

22:20

@Yuuki From what I can tell, chat functionality is low on the "let's do a thing" list

Batophobia

►

murgatroid99

@AshleyNunn Which makes sense. It's basically an afterthought/side feature.

user15026

@murgatroid99 Essentially, yes.

Mad Scientist

@Yuuki It's not a simple problem, I've probably written more meta posts about chat flagging than any other SE user, and I'm still not sure if my ideas will work in the end. Currently, I don't see any indication that SE intends to fix chat flags any time soon.

Yuuki

@MadScientist What about chat flags only appearing to room members in rooms of a certain size?

murgatroid99

22:28

@Yuuki That could theoretically allow a room's culture to drift away from what SE considers appropriate or allowed

Mad Scientist

@Yuuki The danger is that rooms can develop a toxic culture and enforce that since they're the only ones acting on flags.

murgatroid99

You need to at least have an escalation path to people outside the room

Batophobia

@Yuuki This would likely cause issues with some of the "Continue this comment discussion in chat" feature

murgatroid99

@Batophobia That wouldn't affect those, because they wouldn't be "of a certain size"

Wipqozn

+

Unionhawk

22:30

-

murgatroid99

/

Batophobia

@murgatroid99 Right, but knowing that, continued discussion may take a bad turn

murgatroid99

@Batophobia what?

Unionhawk

I think this way he means that chat flags will operate as they do now in rooms below "a certain size"

Batophobia

@murgatroid99 "There's only 2 people here continued from comments, this argument got quite heated and no flags matter because the room is tiny"

@Unionhawk ah, interesting

Yuuki

22:31

@Batophobia Uhh... no. I meant that chat flag functionality would be identical to how it currently is for small rooms.

LessPop_MoreFizz

@murgatroid99 You are making a dangerous assumption that I flagged anything. (I didn't, but of course, you won't see this, so you may continue to blame me for everything and continue to rage at me. Let it all out. I'm a relatively benign target.)

murgatroid99

@Batophobia No, this change would only affect rooms "of a certain size" (i.e. a minimum member count)

I actually think this would be a good idea if it included a way for anyone with flag handling privileges to escalate a flag to outside the room

Yuuki

@murgatroid99 This sounds worryingly thought-police-y.

murgatroid99

@Yuuki I mean stuff like "this room allows pornography, and the network never finds out because flags never leave it"

StrixVaria

@Yuuki It's more that SE wants a certain standard of friendliness everywhere you could wander within their network.

Yuuki

22:34

@murgatroid99 Hmm... I'm trying to find a way for this to not be abused yet still allow a small number of people (say, one person) to not have their voice be stifled.

murgatroid99

@Yuuki What exactly do you see as stifling with the current idea?

Yuuki

@murgatroid99 Because escalation based on one person will lead to abuse, while escalation requiring a minimum threshold will cause a problem if you're by yourself in the room with a supposedly toxic culture.

murgatroid99

@Yuuki But we already have escalation all the time. The first idea will still be less than what we have now

And right now it's not that much

Yuuki

True.

Yeah, I was about to consider how often it would actually be used.

murgatroid99

And honestly, if you have 20k rep, or whatever the threshold is, you can probably generally be trusted to escalate responsibly

Wipqozn

22:37

@murgatroid99 10k+ network wide rep is the requirement for handling chat flags.

murgatroid99

And if a toxic room needs some outside interference, it would only take one person going in to get outside attention.

DwarfSlice

10

Q: Give a 30 second window to current room and site users to deal with chat flags

Whenever there's a hurr durr chat flag in one of a given network site's chatrooms, every 10k+ user across the network can see and action it. This is not always ideal, particularly if the offending chat has active mods or 10k users of its own who are present, and who can see context; local users ...

feature-request flags chat

Yuuki

@murgatroid99 Yay, problem solved!

Guys, we fixed the chat flag problem.

murgatroid99

@Wipqozn I've had 20k network for a while, so I can't really remember.

Yuuki

cc @StackExchangeTeam

murgatroid99

22:39

@Yuuki There is still the issue of what the threshold is for letting rooms deal with it on their own

And it should probably depend on how many users in that room are capable of handling flags

Oh hey, Amazon has released a not-Chromecast

amazon.com/dp/B00GDQ0RMG/…

TV Stick is a fantastic name for a product

Wipqozn

@DwarfSlice OOoooh, it redirect me before I logged in. I was so confused.

badp

@Yuuki Is there a flag problem?

Yuuki

@badp That's an odd emphasis.

badp

I mean, I agree there is a flag problem

27

Q: Disallow flagging chat messages from the transcript as offensive

Chat is an instant medium. What's past the first two screenfuls is water under the bridge, off to the transcript to collect dust and very very little google juice. Chat flags are supposed to be an instant moderation solution to instant messaging problems: broadcast problem messages as fast as po...

feature-request chat chat-flags

Namely the one above

murgatroid99

@badp There's another one with people from different rooms validating flags without considering context

Which the UI encourages

Lazers

22:45

0

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civilization-beyond-earth

LessPop_MoreFizz

@badp What's funny, is @murgatroid99 seems to think I flagged a message he directed towards me which was less than civil, in which case, it wouldn't have needed to be validated by anyone, which means this is irrelevant to the situation that raised the discussion.

badp

@LessPop_MoreFizz Oh yeah, that wasn't flagged by you.

I saw who the flagger was. I don't remember who it was, but it certainly wasn't you.

And some people from this chat room agreed, too.

shrug

LessPop_MoreFizz

@badp anyways, I am off to go eat some food. Hopefully I will someday find a french canadian that can make something taste good.

badp

@murgatroid99 Turns out I agree with this too

43

Q: When reviewing chat flags, please show two lines of context and underline the message timestamp

Not all communities and rooms are created equal. Some have higher standards than others. Thus, what can be considered offensive in one room may be very well acceptable in another. What makes them different? Context. Here's an example: Oh wow, Lara Croft got raped? I wish I was there too...

feature-request chat flags user-interface

LessPop_MoreFizz

I mean, I'm sure they exist.

But... I am yet to find one on this trip. :/

murgatroid99

22:47

@badp So you agree that there are two problems with chat flags

badp

@LessPop_MoreFizz good luck

@murgatroid99 A SHOCKING TURN OF EVENTS

LessPop_MoreFizz

@murgatroid99 More like a few dozen problems, really.

badp

but I don't agree about the need for escalation

murgatroid99

@badp That, in my view, is a proposed solution to the second problem

badp

I think a much bigger problem is that of a fastest gun in the wild effect where people who don't check the transcript can resolve a flag faster than those who do

murgatroid99

22:48

What I mean is that people already in the room already have the context, by definition

badp

and it might end up discouraging people from taking the time to go deeper

murgatroid99

And they have a lot of context, so they are best qualified to judge those flags

badp

@murgatroid99 Yeah but they're also the worst judges of what's acceptable or not network-wide in terms of culture

murgatroid99

@badp And that's why there needs to be an escalation path

In this hypothetical solution scenario

badp

I like the fact that no room is allowed to stray too far, and basically you have to stay within about a couple standard deviations from Christianity.SE chat (to name one that I'd stereotypically consider horrified by profanity; dunno what those rooms actually are like)

Escalation systems remove that from us.

LessPop_MoreFizz

22:51

@badp I hear that they curse like sailors in Christianity.se

badp

30 seconds is basically an eternity.

@LessPop_MoreFizz yay stereotypes.

murgatroid99

@badp What if 10k users could flag for network attention?

badp

but I'm not sure that's the... ideal way to go

murgatroid99

@badp That says only site moderators

badp

it probably works way better on chat.SE than chat.SO anyway

murgatroid99

22:52

Which doesn't really solve the problem of keeping different chat rooms similar

@badp Does it mean chat.SE mods or gaming mods?

badp

@murgatroid99 All SE mods

All of them

murgatroid99

@badp Oh

badp

(those on chat)

I mean, it seems weird to ask people to choose if they think regulars would get offended by it or if they think anybody would get offended by it

When in doubt I'd probably go for the nuclear option. It's the only way to be sure

Yuuki

I also don't see why there would be an issue with requiring a <insert certain amount of time> consideration period before accepting flag validations.

murgatroid99

@badp I guess I'm thinking more about whether a flag can be handled by people already there (say an outsider posting something unquestionably disallowed), or needs more attention

badp

22:55

@Yuuki In a way, on the one hand you have the goatse scenario where any extra second is one second too many. On the other hand, this kinda never materialized somehow

murgatroid99

@badp because you need 20 rep to get in here in the first place

People who just want to post goatse don't have that kind of patience

badp

I think it's more likely that we haven't grown large enough and/or goatse has grown out of fashion

WE AREN'T LARGE ENOUGH UNTIL PEOPLE START GOING "LEL TURDEXCHANGE"

murgatroid99

@badp Could be. But I'd bet that the 20 rep requirement is a major deterrent for those kinds of trolls. Compare the number we get on the main site

badp

then we are too large

@murgatroid99 Those too are relatively minuscule...

murgatroid99

@badp but relatively many compared to what we get in here

Origami Robot

23:16

MY CAT DUMPED OVER THE LITTER BOX THIS IS A NIGHTMARE

Sterno

@OrigamiRobot Until your daughter vomits in your mouth like some backwards mommy bird/baby bird thing, I don't want to hear it.

3

Unionhawk

@Sterno I... o...

kay

Wipqozn

@Sterno What the fuck

If there is ever a time I'm reconsidering my decision to not become a parent, I will remember that message.

Sterno

We were doing that thing where you lay on your back and do push ups to lift the kid in the air and then HURP

Wipqozn

That's horrifying.

Yuuki

23:22

I feel like parents need to be babyproofed now.

Raise your child while wearing a hazmat suit.

Sterno

WTF is this

@Wipqozn Not even the worst thing.

Wipqozn

@Sterno That makes it all the more horrifying.

Arperum

@Sterno Mostly why.

spugsley

GUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUYS

hi :3

@OrigamiRobot O_O

LessPop_MoreFizz

Hi.

Sterno

23:31

@spugsley butts

spugsley

@Sterno reason number 4565396 I will never have children

Journeyman Geek

LADAIIIIEEESSSSZZZZ!

Arperum

@spugsley You should totally write a book "4565396 reason why I will never have a kid" and all it contains is exactly these 4565396 reasons why you will never have a kid.

spugsley

@Arperum it will go in the parenting section because honestly more people need to make actual decisions about whether or not it's smart to have a kid not just go "YAY BABY TIME"

or "OOPS BABY TIME"

or "UH OH BABY TIME"

Ronan Forman

@spugsley At least it's better than: sigh Might as well be baby time.

Arperum

23:38

@RonanForman Don't think "oops baby time" is better than your option. in the first case there are a lot of completely not ready for parenthood kids (and adults). Your option has a hiogher chance of at least one of the couple actually wanting a kid, or at least be ready for it.

Ronan Forman

@Arperum True. Mine's more depressing though.

Arperum

@RonanForman So is your face.

Ronan Forman

@Arperum I've come to terms with that.

Arperum

insert @Wipqozn oh burn message here

Unionhawk

OOO BURN

Arperum

23:40

@RonanForman Ran out of mirrors?

Unionhawk

close enough

Ronan Forman

I'm hurt @Arperum.

Arperum

@RonanForman I am sorry. I'm a big meanie sometimes.

Origami Robot

@Arperum confirmed meabie

Ronan Forman

@Arperum Aren't we all?

Arperum

23:50

@RonanForman Probably. Going to bed now though. So goodnight all!

Lazers

0

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Ktash

@AshleyNunn you should really get to season 6, episode 5 soon. Because Joshua Gomez a.k.a. Morgan Grimes is on it

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