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14:00
All of them
Like, we go down the list passing one close vote of each type, when it's closed and we still have things to vote we re-open it and continue
@KevinvanderVelden Someone should ask a question you could dupe to. "Who cares?"
@OrigamiRobot I approve of this idea =p
> Questions about Game Design and Development are off topic. This includes speculative questions about developer intent, with respect to both mechanics and narrative. You might want to ask over at GameDev.SE, but be sure to read their FAQ
Yes, it's not as clear as it used to be. The community voted. We accepted the community result.
If it was for me, we'd have about 15 extremely specific close reasons.
That's probably why I don't get to make these calls.
2
@badp I agree with this.
I hope they loosen up the requirements that every site fit the exact same shape and expand is to that there is some customization.
Like the number of custom close reasons available.
@badp Your arguments make sense, and I will act according to this paradigm for now.
@badp Citation needed.
14:13
Sounds ominous
@Sterno What do you do when I ask what is the best pokemon?
@StrixVaria I thought we did get an extra close reason.
Yes, yes we did.
@badp Vote as unclear what you're asking because you need to set up some specific criteria, or vote to close as primarily opinion based, depending on my mood that day
@GraceNote One.
@Sterno So you would vote to close, right?
14:15
We really could use even more than that.
The question you just asked me isn't unanswerable. That's not why I'm voting to close it.
We could use a lot of things. Like a completely different tagging structure for example.
Or letting Tim fix mobile chat. But sometimes we don't get what we want, and everyone is sad.
@GraceNote That's asking for a lot. The number of close reasons seems a much more reasonable first request.
@Sterno Is it answerable to our standards?
14:16
@badp That is an entirely different type of answerability.
@StrixVaria GO BIG OR GO HOME
17 mins ago, by badp
@StrixVaria If 5 of our most trusted users decide that the question cannot be reasonably answered to our standards, the question is closed. It's how the site works.
Answerable in this case means that it has a definitive answer, not opinions or shared experiences
@StrixVaria Yeah, I admit I approach strawman territory with that a bit, so let me rescind that as an opposition and leave it as a statement.
You certainly can answer "What happens when a pokemon trainer dies?" Since however you can't answer without making shit up, that's not answerable to our standards.
You can "answer" anything
See also: Yahoo Answers
14:17
We only wish we were as cool as Yahoo Answers
I really don't have anything new to contribute to this discussion that I haven't said in meta.
I do wish @LessPop_MoreFizz would weigh in on it. All I've ever seen him say is his statement that "answerability is a poor metric for question cromulence" with no real followup
It... really is a poor metric.
user58869
cromulence...
-1
Q: Where can I get an xray mod for 1.7.4 Minecraft

JustinI was wondering if anyone has a trusted website link where I can get the X-ray mod for Minecraft. Thank you!

I honestly don't see it. You need to be knowledgeable about something before you VTC questions about it - or we'd have a lot more cross-network mods and privileges
@Alex "cromulent" is a word anti-prescriptivists use to show that as long as you understand what's being said, then language is doing its job, and rules are stupid.
I like it.
14:22
@badp It's not just us, it's also askers. I find it a reasonable expectation that a user who knows our policies should be able to know whether a question is appropriate, whether or not they do know.
@badp It's not only about knowing the subject but knowing the communities' rules too.
For me it boils down to this: Your sample question about "What happens to pokemon trainers when they die?" shouldn't be on-topic for pokemon-abcd because it happens to address that, but off-topic for pokemon-efgh because it doesn't.
Asking a question, in most cases, entails that the asker doesn't know the answer, or if there is one. That's why one asks. A user knowing that we have a rule against questions where the answer doesn't exist... almost results in non-information because he has no idea and that's why he is asking in the first place.
@GraceNote But the question's being closed is the best answer we can give the user
@badp That still makes an incredibly awkward experience for a user, not entirely friendly, and they still had no means to prevent this in the first place.
14:25
New users often take it as a slap in the face
@GraceNote That's why I originally phrased all of the close reasons as "Sorry, but we can't help you with questions about/that do X, try Y instead."
At the end of the day, when we agree that we don't want fanfics to be acceptable answers, we only have three options:
1. Close the question
2. Have answers that say "There is no canon about this", which are almost impossible to prove authoritative and almost doomed to become wrong as canon expands
3. Ban lore entirely, throwing the baby with the dirty water
@StrixVaria It really is a beautiful word.
I do not see an option 4
I think 1 is by far the superior approach.
I don't think those are our only options.
I don't like option 2, which is what I was trying to prove by giving an answer in the vein of option 2.
14:28
What's option 4, then? Ignore the question and delete fanfic as it hits the site?
Or, I suppose more to point, I think we just crushed about three different axes into a single plane, as the issue isn't much the counter as it is the premise we begin with.
Why don't we do that for all questions?
You're starting to do that thing again where you're stretching to extremes when I'm trying to approach a middle ground.
I'll shut up for a while. Go ahead
Cromulent is the best word. sigh poor Simpsons
14:30
Okay. So let's look at the narrow scope of things.
> when we agree that we don't want fanfics to be acceptable answers
^ This looks like a sort of standard we can actually decide and be explicit about! But it isn't what our rule currently says!
puts away his stack of The Bridge fanfics
sets fire to the pile, so that all the fanfics may merge into one coherent universe of multi-axial shipping
The mess with our rule is that it's very in-specific about the bounds it applies to. Which is illustrated very handily by your option 2 - canon expands over time, or sometimes contracts as well.
The reality is that there isn't an easy solution to judging these as an asker - it requires serious thought about what is being asked and how it relates to the material, to figure how far you're going from what I've thrice almost written a Meta post about, "Relevance". But quite honestly, requiring serious thought is a pretty darn fair thing to expect out of people.
@badp It's okay, they're backed up in The Cloud™
Each time I see this discussion come up, we keep seeming to lean towards the extremes. The complexity of analysis to these is why we keep leaning towards this very lazy and more to point foggy set of rules that people are on edge about. They work - exactly because we do have standards and we can apply those standards. But we aren't even clear to ourselves where our standards sit right now.
14:36
@BenBrocka but what if it rains?
@Krazer Smutty fanfics will fall from the sky
@BenBrocka Is it bad that I want to CC a bunch of people on this?
@FEichinger Only if that number doesn't match something on the bounds of 81 or so.
@KevinvanderVelden How's the Wilders crazyness going? I've read that the moron did stupid again?
@ABunchofPeople Watch out for falling smut~
3
14:40
Anyway, what I'm saying is, the resolution is pretty clear - we have standards we can enforce for closure of things that are too wispy for us. We can use those without having to do weird political statement dances or deciding that nothing can be allowed. We do have to refine those standards, though, and it will take a hefty amount of thinking if we want something more solid than what we currently have. Until such time, what we have is still usable, even if disagreeably so.
One of these days, maybe I'll finish that whole "Relevance" post.
We should probably have a meta to iron out those standards, then.
I'd like to have people think on the matter first and not open a meta just yet.
Why don't we open the meta (to get the question out there) and lock it, then unlock it after a few days to allow answers?
This way more than just who's in this chat right now knows to start thinking about it.
Think of it as a new approach - quite frankly we open a meta now and we all have heated thoughts that we can throw out, and then others will jump in with heated thoughts, and then voting is all over the place.
Being not a mod, I can't do that.
14:43
Definitely would want more than just us in here to think on it, though.
I'll come up with something.
@GraceNote I think you're going to get that to some degree no matter when you post the question. I think @StrixVaria's idea would prevent it with at least some effectiveness.
@Arperum the usual. I'm not really paying attention but some people are seeing if there's anything they can charge him with
In theory, it'd give people time to come up with well formed posts.
@OrigamiRobot Indeed, but I want people of all sorts to at least have some sort of base point to work from, rather than an empty start.
That is trickier indeed.
14:46
@KevinvanderVelden With good reason as far as I can see. It really feels like early nazism. it's scary.
Because the other issue with an empty start is that when you do have the plans to formulate a rather fortified position, having to deal with a huge wall of all the other sides already up and so you have to work against all that and in a lot of cases, the intent of your original fortification is lost as you drew your focus to opposition.
He was at a rally for his party and basically asked if they wanted to see less people from Morocco in Holland, to which people cheered "Less less!" and he said "We're gonna take care of that"
One of my MtG decks is "worth" just over $1000. I should reexamine my life...
yay xenophobia
@Arperum and @KevinvanderVelden have the same gravatar so I thought that it was just @KevinvanderVelden talking to himself.
14:48
@KevinvanderVelden replace "people from Morocco" with "Jews and gypsies"
@OrigamiRobot It's not a Commander deck is it?
The problem with democracy is that people are stupid
@Krazer It is indeed.
The good bit is the response of most other parties. Pretty much everyone is appalled.
@KevinvanderVelden Yup, about time.
14:48
@OrigamiRobot Don't. I have over $5000 in Warhammer models. Hobbies can be expensive, but as long as you are having fun...
@StrixVaria nuhhuh, his is blue-er
Mine is just different shades of gray, his has blue and yellow
@OrigamiRobot This is why I hope my first release pokemon cards weren't trashed
@Arperum's gravatar is light in the left half. @KevinvanderVelden's light in the bottom half
@StrixVaria I had this avatar first :( Why is it assumed to be @KevinvanderVelden
@JasonBerkan I enjoyed Warhammer, but I had no way to play enough to justify the cost.
14:50
@Arperum cause I'm much more awesome
@KevinvanderVelden Lies.
@OrigamiRobot Nice~ I've seen Commanders decks go to the upwards of 3-4k
However, both are Goodmorningfrankists, so frankly I think the best resolution is OFF WITH THEIR HEADS
@BenBrocka Dat Charizard
@badp I don't star it!
14:50
@BenBrocka I sold my entire pokemon collection for $100. I have no idea how well they'd have retained their value nowdays.
I have one of those and I Think all of the gen 1 starters in holofoil
@KevinvanderVelden That's what people fearing for their dear head would say!
@KevinvanderVelden I starred it first! I started the thing.
@OrigamiRobot That is an issue with many collectible type games. Luckily I have a group that I play with semi-regularly, so my models don't just collect dust.
@Krazer That's nuts. Commander isn't even an expensive format. (Unless you're trying to foil your whole deck.)
14:51
@Arperum see, we're different people!
@JasonBerkan What race are you?
@OrigamiRobot the first release holofoils can still be around $50 per card
@OrigamiRobot also what people who don't star good morning bridge would say
They stopped printing and made a re-release of the first set of cards so they've kept value decently
@BenBrocka I didn't have any first editions.
14:52
@KevinvanderVelden Tell that to @StrixVaria and @Unionhawk.
@sterno I have a meta post half written with that as a title. It has been half written for like six months. Someday I'll finish it. Today is not that day. Keep bugging me and pointing out situations where it's relevant though! That'll make me finish it. Someday.
@OrigamiRobot I started off with Vampire Counts for fantasy, and that's what most of my models are. I also have a smattering of fantasy Empire models and I've started a 40K Ork army.
@OrigamiRobot Not first edition, like, the...not-rerelease set. I'm not sure what you call it. First editions are way more
I think I have some first editions, not sure if any were good
Bleh, I suppose it is annoying. I'll go look for some random anne stokes picture or something
@JasonBerkan I "played" Dark Eldar.
14:53
I stopped on the expansion that added dark/steel, while dark/steel were still special energy only...that was some awful game design
I believe if you go to my Facebook page, you can see some of my first Orks (it's my cover photo): facebook.com/jberkan
And now I go back to work. BYE CHAT.
@JasonBerkan I want to do a GURPS campaign where the PCs are Orks. It'd be so gooofy and fun.
@OrigamiRobot Don't have an DE players in my group. For 40K we have Tau, Orks, Space Wolves and Chaos Space Marines.
@OrigamiRobot or Timetwister, Mishra's Workshop, Imperial Recruiter and other Portal cards (Seal), Moat, foil JtMS, etc.
14:56
@Krazer Well that's just showing off. JTMS isn't even that good in commander.
@OrigamiRobot the most valuable EDH legal cards are probably from summer magic or test foils
@OrigamiRobot That would be fun. I've been using the Orks to teach my kids about amorality, since they fight 'cuz fightings fun, and not because of good or evil.
@Krazer My expensive deck is a Sisay deck and to be honest, is partially a way to show off.
@OrigamiRobot How often do you get all 3 pieces of Kaldra in a deck with all one-ofs and that many cards?
Are they just in there because the pieces are individually good, and maybe if it comes up having all 3 would be even better?
Oh, I just read Sisay.
Nevermind.
Good morning, Bridge
15:05
Morning
Apparently, we're REALLY mean.
Or, were. It's gone now.
@StrixVaria I've seen them in other voltron decks for this reason.
Voltron being where you use a lot of equipment and auras.
2048 is officially a dangerous game
in Unix and Linux, 25 mins ago, by slm
@Kiwy @terdon - now my co-workers are playing 2048 too and nothing is getting done. Thanks Kiwy!
@Braiam dangerous and horrible, save yourselves!
15:12
@Braiam don't tell them about doge2048
I beat 2048 yesterday.
I felt surprised but accomplished.
@Krazer Also, all my EDH decks use Unhinged basics so that's definitely showing off.
@StrixVaria I got 4096. I felt an empty sense of achievement, and a great sense of loss
15:30
Yo, Diablers
14
Q: How do I find items with the right level to salvage particular ingredients?

MichelI want to buy in the Auction House gear for salvage into craft-material. But I don't want to buy the wrong gear for the wrong craft material. How can I accomplish this? Craft-materials vary based on the difficulty, and they are: Normal Subtle Essence Fallen Tooth Nightmare Shimmering...

We got a flag on how all of the comments on this question and answer are no longer relevant with the new and improved Diablo
Can you confirm?
@badp Take a look at my edited answer.
So, turtles are terrifying. Just GIS "leatherback mouth" to see why.
@Frank Is that a yes?
@badp Yeah, the question itself is mostly obsolete now. No reason to keep the comments from two years ago.
@OrigamiRobot It's turtles teeth all the way down.
@Frank Very good. Question deleted as now irrelevant
15:34
@badp Whoa, hey! We don't delete questions that are obsolete.
sigh. What good does it do to us?
Otherwise, we should burn all of our City of Heroes questions, and we decided to leave those alone.
@badp Honestly, none at all.
City of Heroes is a dead game
This is a dead feature of a game that is alive.
@badp Well, no, the feature is still there. Just not the AH.
You can still salvage stuff.
> I want to buy in the Auction House gear for salvage into craft-material. But I don't want to buy the wrong gear for the wrong craft material.
15:36
@badp Forget the AH part.
It still applies for the, "What do I salvage to get the craft materials?"
Does it make sense to buy things just to craft them?
And will require an update, once RoS comes out.
@badp You can't actually salvage vendor bought stuff anymore.
So...
If anything, the question needs rewording to focus more on what salvages into what materials.
Now both halves of the question are irrelevant
I think it'd be better to have a new question altogether, if any at all is worthwile given the simplicity of the new system.
15:38
No, salvaging is still very much in the game.
I don't see why we're deleting a question that still has relevance.
"I want to craft stuff but I don't know what to buy to craft stuff"
1 min ago, by Frank
If anything, the question needs rewording to focus more on what salvages into what materials.
Do you have any control on the quality of drops you get?
@badp Used to. Now, it's all based on your level.
So...
I dunno I can undelete it but it just seems very much not worth it
15:40
So, what salvages into what is still what was asked.
The whole premise (how can I get items of the right type so I can craft them into what I need) is now out of the equation
And is still applicable.
You can only craft what the random number generator decides to give you. It's out of your hands.
You can't do special things to get the special kind of items that you need.
Except "keep playing"
@badp Nonono.
He's asking specifically about what salvages into what.
Which used to be a ton more complicated than it is now.
But it's still an applicable question.
Morning, Bridge
15:42
eh
you can have the question back, but I don't really feel it.
@badp I'm not sure how you're automatically assuming the question is no longer applicable. It still has relevance. The comments, not so much. That was specifically what I was addressing.
14
Q: What salvages into what?

MichelWhat items turn into what when you salvage them?

This is what's left of the question
@badp That's a good question
It's also a different question
I dunno, when things change so radically I just think, hey, we aren't going to run out of question numbers
If it's really so unclear, it can be asked again starting with a clean slate
Also, the question and answers are older than 6 months and well upvoted, so no reputation would've been lost.
It has nothing to do with reputation. It has to do with a question that's still valid.
It's simpler than it was before, but that's exactly what updates are for.
15:49
It's only valid in letter, not in spirit
11
Q: The profile page is getting a makeover

Jeremy TThe Big Idea Create a page that summarizes who I am as a developer, and lets me show off the stuff I am most proud of. Some of this information is only available by creating a careers profile, but we want to open it up to everybody, even if you don’t have one. Background: The Problem Our curr...

the original question's spirit, anyway
@fredley So long as you can turn the Careers 2.0 link off...
@badp Doubt it
@fredley then I'll have to delete my Careers page.
@badp But then how would you apply for delicious jobs?
15:51
@fredley Otherwise
@badp Create a sockpuppet for Careers
Only solution
@fredley The whole point of Careers is having it linked to your internet persona.
@badp s/your/an/
@GnomeSlice Cool. Probably too late, but I guess it compliments their transition to an app/platform
I think we have our precedent for obnoxious and unrelated messages.
15:56
@Frank I agree
@Ahmad Several days even. The overriding point is that there is no sensible contribution. So it's just the noise. And the spam. — sehe 14 mins ago
Does this mean that next time he starts doing it we can and should flag as spam?
The other guy had pure spamposts that showed off products too though, or at least one example of it appears to be in that topic.
@badp I assume that it's not shown if your profile isn't public.
@Arperum Random unrelated videos and pictures certainly counts as spam.
@TimStone My profile is public, indexed and is searchable by search engines.
Just, you need to know my surname.
@Frank I agree on the spammyness, He's calmed the last couple days though.
16:02
@Arperum I certainly agree there.
I'm just saying, if it happens again, we don't need to tiptoe around it.
Just ban him and call it.
@Frank I'd give a single warning if he starts again, and then throw a banhammer. (I know he's got multiple warnings before)
@Arperum You're more tolerant than I am, then.
I think he's had enough warnings.
@Frank I try to.
I know how it feels to try to get into a closed group. He's just looking for attention, and has no clue on how to do it in a positive way, so it turns negative.
Ignore function FTW
@Sterno Ignore feature is best feature.
16:06
@Sterno That doesn't solve the problem. Which I've said multiple times.
@Frank You'd be disappointed if I agreed with you!
@Frank Do you still have people on your ignorelist, or did you clean it up?
@Arperum Nope, still got...about a half dozen people on it.
@Frank Oh my. Half a dozen? I only have two.
Also, have I mentioned lately how much I love Exploding Palm? It's so overpowered.
16:08
Clearly I haven't been ignoring hard enough.
Yep. A round half-dozen, actually.
Just checked.
I don't ignore anyone. If I did I'd miss drama.
I can't ignore people's ignore lists.
@Frank gnome and retro IIRC are on the list, and both have been behaving good lately. gnome still posts links, but it's not the spam it once was, and retro(slowpoke now) seldom visits, and I didn't see anything wrong with it in his latest chat sessions.
@Arperum I agree gnome's gotten better; I unignored him for the duration of the election.
And Retro, well, there's a reason I put him on the ignore list, and I see no reason to change that.
16:11
@Frank Why did you reignore after it then?
He only comes in here to argue on his closed questions.
@Arperum Because I don't think he's improved enough.
@Frank I understand that, Ihave one person on my ignore list, and I don't think he's getting of there anytime soon.
@Arperum gnomes link posting isn't the main reason frank ignored him, from what I understand.
@Wipqozn I'm only here for about a year, or even some bit less. I don't know the original reason.
@Arperum There's much more to it than straight linkage; that wasn't even in the list of reasons.
16:14
@badp Huh, I tried to find you and was unable. Well played, sir.
@Frank Yeah, I didn't think it was.
From what I understand it has more to do with arguments you two would get in two more than anything else.
@TimStone You couldn't even find me if I gave you my name...
I can't even find myself on google.
The only way to consistently find me through google is by searching for Arperum.
@Wipqozn Partially. We stand on opposite sides of policies, most times.
But if that was all it took, I'd've ignored @Sterno a long time ago.
But I won't talk about why I did, though; that's a personal thing that he can't really defend himself against.
I wish chat had a FREEHANDED CIRCLE button
We'd all be getting along together so much better
We'd spend all day, every day, swapping free handed circles to each other as if it was valentine forever
I'm sure @fredley could make a script that turns stars into freehand circles
16:18
and you could choose your shade of red and how large should the rigorously aliased line be
> starts
NO ONE LIKES A KNOW IT ALL
Knowing how to type hardly makes you a person who knows it all
45 secs ago, by Sterno
NO ONE LIKES A KNOW IT ALL
@Sterno You need to know it all to know that you, or others, know it all
Do you know it all?
16:19
Nothing but know it alls all the way down
YOU CAN'T KNOW THAT YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU DON'T KNOW
@Krazer I love huge models like that.
@Frank Then you'd be please to know about the full 1/35 scale model: gunjap.net/site/?p=55653
$2,500. Ouch.
16:29
@KevinvanderVelden Nope. Just one person with two microphones.
@Unionhawk lies
His birthday is on saturday, mine isn't until the 8th of april!
And my mom was being mean, we got 2 packages delivered today and she laughed bringing them past me =[
MY HEADCANON NEVER LIES
user15026
Downloading Pokemon trozei with phone wifi is less than fun. But it should be all there by the time I get home:D
EXCEPT WHEN MY HEADCANON SAID @FEI WAS OLD
AND EVERY NOW AND THEN
@Unionhawk WELL, YOU WERE WROOOONG.
16:32
I saw your profile for the first time and said "There's no way he's 18". Now it makes perfect sense.
@FEichinger Does that make GraceNote wrong?
@Unionhawk No, the Official @GraceNote's Bridge Age Chart is never wrong.
I've decided that @badp has been lying to us this whole time, has nothing in his Careers profile, or just doesn't exist and is really a figment of our imagination.
@FEichinger Okay, so GraceNote's headcanon == my headcanon at the time
I did find someone whose Careers profile has the Companion Cube as their avatar though.
@TimStone I could link you, but I would have to kill you.
16:36
No, it's okay, I like the mystery. I'm just shocked that using no combination of information you've provided in your profile could I find you.
Except my headcanon now goes on actual numbers, and if you're going to sit here and argue that that's somehow wrong, just for the purpose of saying I'm wrong, then I'm leaving.
Did someone say freehand circles?
You did
Just now
@Unionhawk I don't even need to argue it. It's quite simple: You're wrong.
SCREW YOU (NO THAT IS NOT AN OFFER)
16:39
@Unionhawk Eww.
@AshleyNunn Oh right, I knew there was a game I was thinking about thinking about buying which I was thinkin would be good for breaks.
It's only a few bucks, right?
@Krazer My headcanon of you has officially shifted to a Magypsy's.
Pretty
Cardinal Quest 2 just released on the app store! Get it while it's fresh, share with your loved ones :D https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/cardinal-quest-2/id732353646?mt=8
WHAT
@badp ♥
Actually I should look into picking up apuzzle quest game too. Those were fun, never did play much of them though.
16:46
@Wipqozn I'm a bit late (as usual), but here.
Too bad I don't understand any of that.
@Krazer I'm so confused about what I just watched, but thanks!
Anyways if anyone is interested in a hands on review of the Steam controller at GDC:
These posts are so actively hostile to developers
16:51
People Suck
And the Mighty No.9 GDC video:
@BenBrocka Apparently not
@Krazer Sad that they're still going for the 3D non-cell shaded models/lighting
@BenBrocka Hmm. I can kind of see both sides. By requiring a demo, you can tell whether or not the game is worth buying.
But there's also people out there who won't buy it after trying a demo.
Which is what the devs don't like.
Yeah, but their posts basically imply that anyone without a demo is doing it because the game sucks...and also implying that the large, large majority of games must be trash
And also ignoring all the problems free to try causes; the current store gives you no hint as to the real price of games, it's monetization strategy, so it's open to all the icky free to play lots of people hate
IN fact it all but enforces icky free to play and paid nags
16:57
Also Vita BL2:
DAYTON LEADING AT THE HALF. KICK OHIO STATE'S ASSES. SPORTSSPORTSSPORTS
It has happened
@Krazer framerate looks much better than the Vine I saw earlier...granted I'm not sure what framerate Vines even use

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