The Bridge

Darth Android

19:00

@Sterno Both are advising someone on shopping.

Sterno

@fbueckert The problem of "which of these should I buy" is that it's a popularity contest thing, but one that may well stand the test of time. The "where should I buy it" might be a popularity contest too, but the bigger problem is that it's likely a list question (in the sense that there are way too many possible answers) or might even be too localized (I only care about shops within 5 miles of my house)"

OrigamiRobot

@fbueckert Asking "What do I buy?" is really just asking "What do I need to solve my problem?" If the problem is well defined and the question isn't too broad, it's fine.

Sterno

@DarthAndroid That's what I'm saying. "Shopping advice" questions are bad for reasons that have nothing to do with the fact that "shopping" is involved.

@GraceNote had a good meta on this once. Ping!

OrigamiRobot

3

Q: What unofficial power supplies work for the Atari Jaguar?

I just recently bought an Atari Jaguar on ebay, but it was sold as is because there was no cords that came with it. I was planning on buying an official power supply, but I want to test it with one I already have. I just want to know if its safe to just test it with the power supply I have. This...

jaguar

fbueckert

@OrigamiRobot I agree that as long as you don't focus on buying specific items, they're fine. That's what the whole, "QA is hard, let's go shopping!" post is about.

I was referring more to, "I don't think I understand what @Ullallulloo is saying. How does this not meet the criteria for shopping advice?"

Grace Note

19:02

@Sterno I actually don't think I have one explicitly on the subject? I have one on "What is not a game-rec" but...

Lazers

0

Q: Which stores sell Wii points?

I want to get the full version of one of two games- "chick chick BOOM" or "2 Fast 4 Gnomz", but I don't have enough Wii points. If you can earn them, I don't know how, and I'm wondering which stores sell them. I know they sell them, but I don't know where. I don't want to go to a store with my pa...

wii

Sterno

@GraceNote I will find it!

Grace Note

Basically on the subject of what components of "shopping advice" we don't take, it's "Should I buy X?" or "I'm wanting X, what do you think I should buy?", wherein it's opinion solicitation, that's what I immediately find in my writings on the subject.

Darth Android

I've always drawn the line between "What should I buy?" and "How do I figure out what I need to buy?"

fbueckert

And answers like this one just sort of prove why they need closing.

There's no indication that it would even be helpful to the asker.

Sterno

19:04

@GraceNote Or maybe I won't.

fbueckert

And there's no way to find out.

Sterno

@GraceNote But anyway, that's the basic point I wanted to link to. I thought I remembered a meta answer you had (that wasn't about shopping advice, but did mention how people sometimes misuse "shopping advice").

OrigamiRobot

@DarthAndroid This

fbueckert

I'm definitely not misusing shopping advice here. That's literally what this is.

Sterno

Anyway, I guess my entire point is that it's a bad question that should be closed, but it's not because it involves buying something

OrigamiRobot

19:06

@Ullallulloo Too broad — OrigamiRobot 10 mins ago

Sterno

@fbueckert His question boils down to "Where can I purchase X?" He's not even asking for the best place... he just wants to know available places so that he can do it.

Ullallulloo

@Sterno It's not asking for advice though.

Advice implies opinion.

OrigamiRobot

@Sterno Even though it's not asking for advice, that's what it solicits.

fbueckert

@Sterno Which is exactly what shopping advice includes.

Sterno

@OrigamiRobot So does "What's a build that will help me survive in D3 Inferno?"

OrigamiRobot

19:09

And?

fbueckert

@Ullallulloo Please read QA is hard, let's go shopping

LessPop_MoreFizz

1

Q: How do I destroy weed?

In the quite opposite to BTN weed does not get destroyed when you throw it on the ground. So how can I permanently destroy it?

harvest-moon

Sterno

@OrigamiRobot And that's not off-topic because it solicits advice.

GnomeSlice

@LessPop_MoreFizz +1

fbueckert

In order to properly answer the question, you need to know where they live.

OrigamiRobot

19:09

3 mins ago, by OrigamiRobot

@Ullallulloo Too broad — OrigamiRobot 10 mins ago

Sterno

I want to be 100% clear. I believe the question is off-topic.

fbueckert

That automatically ensures the question is not helpful to the internet at large.

Grace Note

@Sterno I thought I would have summat on this but I apparently don't.

Darth Android

@Sterno I would close that for "Primarily opinion based" though.

Sconibulus

@LessPop_MoreFizz I think the most popular way is to roll it with paper and set it on fire

Sterno

19:10

I think we misuse the term "shopping advice" often when the mention of "buying something" comes up though.

This recent question isn't even really about opinion. The last line of his question sums it up: "Which stores sell Wii points?"

That's not opinion based

Jason Berkan

@LessPop_MoreFizz What does "In the quite opposite to BTN" mean?

Fluttershy

Drama day on Arqade again? It should be a federal holiday.

OrigamiRobot

First of all, advice does not have to be opinion based.

fbueckert

@Sterno The context makes it shopping advice. If you want to edit it so that it specifically asks that question, I'll vote to reopen. And then downvote, because it's stupid.

OrigamiRobot

Second of all, I did not need to say "first of all" before because that was all I had.

10

Sterno

19:12

@fbueckert No, I want it closed. I'm not arguing this question should be open. I'm arguing that we often misuse "shopping advice" as a close reason because the act of purchasing something is involved.

fbueckert

@Sterno And you're arguing the wrong thing here.

That is shopping advice. No two ways around it.

Sterno

Okay. Walk me through it. How is "WHich stores sell Wii points?" shopping advice?

FEichinger

@fbueckert So there is one way around it? :P

Fluttershy

Guys! I answered a question today! I haven't done that in like two months!

fbueckert

@Sterno "Hey, I want to buy Wii points in-person! Where can I do that?"

How the bloody hell do we answer it without knowing where they live?

Fluttershy

19:13

@JasonBerkan BTN is Back to Nature, another Harvest Moon game.

Sterno

@fbueckert I'm with you. Still not seeing how it's "shopping advice".

fbueckert

@Sterno In order to help the asker, we have to know where they live.

Sterno

24 secs ago, by Sterno

@fbueckert I'm with you. Still not seeing how it's "shopping advice".

fbueckert

At which point it's, "Well, you have store X in your area. They sell them. Try there."

That literally makes it shopping advice.

Sterno

And I'm telling you the problem with shopping advice has NOTHING TO DO with the fact that something is purchased or sold.

2

Grace Note

19:15

I... wouldn't call that shopping advice.

FEichinger

@Sterno It's giving advice on where to shop. The same goes for how to shop, and what to shop. There's a small subset of where that I'd deem fine: Online retail and a limited amount of authorized stores.

fbueckert

Ok, I'm done arguing this. I'm gonna stop before I blow up at people.

FEichinger

Whatever @fbueckert is arguing there, however, has nothing to do with "shopping advice". That's just too localised / lack of information / list question.

Sterno

My point is that "shopping advice" being bad for the site has nothing to do with the fact that it somehow involves "shopping". It's because it's a category of question that is primarly opinion-based and leads to a popularity contest.

FEichinger

@Sterno It invites a variety of bad questions, not only opinion based.

Ullallulloo

19:16

@FEichinger It's not giving advice, really though, and even if you do count it as that, it ignores the whole problem with those type of questions.

Sterno

So while maybe it's "shopping advice" in the english-usage sense of the word, it doesn't fall under the problem-domain that "shopping advice" questions on SE have.

FEichinger

Where to shop and what to shop also invite lists with barely any bounds to them.

Fluttershy

Sounds like it's time for LessBridge_MoreMeta! (@LessPop should change his name.)

3

FEichinger

@GnomeSlice Now that is unnecessary.

GnomeSlice

You're right, that was childish.

I apologize.

OrigamiRobot

19:18

@Sterno Now we're getting somewhere.

Grace Note

I'm going to have to start inventing words to classify things on this network because every time we use real words it's fraught with misunderstandings.

11

FEichinger

@GraceNote I'm surprised you haven't invented words yet.

Ullallulloo

I don't really have an opinion on whether it's too broad or not.

OrigamiRobot

From now on, "shopping advice" will be referred to as "death crystals"

2

Sterno

That's why I was saying we really need to call it something other than "shopping advice". Actual advice on "What do I buy?" was the primary case that showed that the class of question was bad, but it's because that type of question is bad... not because we have some strange fear of questions that somehow involve the act of shopping.

Ullallulloo

19:19

I'm not really clear what that means.

Grace Note

@FEichinger Oh, I've invented many words before.

FEichinger

@Sterno The current phrasing definitely invites closing by keywords.

Fluttershy

@OrigamiRobot That's not a made-up word.

Sterno

@OrigamiRobot But what if I need to ask a question about Final Fantasy V?

Jason Berkan

I'm gonna run out of stars today. Also, did the weed question user just call LessPop, LessPoop?

4

FEichinger

19:21

We just gotta find something that properly replaces it ... unlike what happened with a certain too localised removal.

@JasonBerkan Well, that could be an honest mistake. Fluckbert was pretty obvious, but LessPoop?

But then again, "MoreFritz" seems rather deliberate ...

@GraceNote That puts my mind at rest again, then.

Sterno

I guess my point of this, and this kind of relates to the piracy thing earlier in the week too, is that we have to understand why certain types of questions that we call out as off-topic are bad, and not just get fixated on those keywords that make it superficially similar.

FEichinger

@Sterno That, however, I would argue, makes our closure reason unrelated to the topic definition. Then it's a problem with the format less than the topic.

Sterno

I think the closest close-reason for this particular question is that we don't allow "Catalogues (listing games that fit specific criteria or are like an existing game)", though in this case game = store.

fbueckert

@Sterno I don't think I was fixating on the words. I thought it through before I voted to close it. Regardless, I'm not fighting it.

OrigamiRobot

@Sterno We do not accept question asking for death crystals!

Wipqozn

19:27

I don't have time to scroll through the entire discussion, since I'm getting ready to head out... but is the tl;dr We want to close questions asking where to buy things, but just want to change the reason used?

Because if people are saying we should allow "Where do I buy X?" questions you're objectively wrong, and you must also hate kittens. Why do you hate kittens? They're adorable!

Ullallulloo

@Wipqozn Why?

OrigamiRobot

I dont think there is a way to do it @LessPoop_MoreFritz — leetfan 10 mins ago

Bwahahaha

Sterno

@Wipqozn I don't think a single person has proposed leaving it open.

Wipqozn

@Sterno I couldn't tell. I was just trying to skim through a bunch of text in less thna a minute since I need to head out.

fbueckert

You can get lots of upvotes by putting a comment on this post saying I don't have enough content. — Timtech 4 mins ago

I'm starting to get rather irked by this guy.

Wipqozn

19:30

but if people were aying we should leave it open I just had to step in to let them know they're a monster.

Sterno

Do all monsters hate kittens, or are all kitten-haters monsters?

OrigamiRobot

@Fluttershy If I take my glasses off, this looks like LessBridge_MoreMetal

Wipqozn

@Sterno The latter.

OrigamiRobot

@Sterno Some kittens are monsters.

Wipqozn

okay, and now I need to leave.

Sterno

19:31

Are you a monster as soon as you hate one kitten, or must you hate all kittens?

Ullallulloo

@Sterno I'm not really against leaving it open or against closing it. Why would we though?

Wipqozn

@Sterno You need to hate the idea of kittens.

alexanderpas

Blog - Stack Exchange: Q&A is Hard, Let’s Go Shopping!

Jeff Atwood on November 23, 2010

Over the last 2.5 years, we’ve identified a few problematic classes of questions that tend to get asked on our sites. Many of these are documented in our standard set of close reasons: exact duplicate, off-topic, subjective and argumentative, not a real question, and too localized.

However, as we launched the great Super User experiment, a new, previously unknown class of problematic questions emerged — the shopping recommendation.

That is, on Super User we began encountering questions like: …

Stack Exchange Gaming Blog: Shopping Advice for Gamers

agent86 on November 13, 2012

Shopping advice is another one of those topics that we don’t allow on Arqade. We did, once upon a time, and we attracted a couple of “canonical” questions on the topic. In an effort to preserve whatever value they have, as well as allow us to clean them up from the site, I’ve prepared this blog post. Remember, though, that asking shopping advice questions on Arqade is off-topic – the intent of this post is just to give people a pointer to some additional resources when we close questions. …

Grace Note

@Wipqozn What if you don't mind kittens but hate everything that they respresent and stand for?

OrigamiRobot

@GraceNote You hate the ideals of kittens?

FEichinger

19:33

@fbueckert Well, he probably realized that suddenly, he doesn't fit in with the general direction of the site anymore.

Sterno

@Ullallulloo Well, I posted my reason... I think it's falls under the problem area of catalogue questions... trying to find out all the things that fit a specific criteria.

Grace Note

@OrigamiRobot Would that make a monster?

OrigamiRobot

@GraceNote I am an authority on robots, not monsters.

Grace Note

You need to earn more authorities then.

OrigamiRobot

Limiting myself keeps me humble.

FEichinger

19:36

@OrigamiRobot Humble? You? Right.

OrigamiRobot

I AM THE MOST HUMBLE! NO ONE IS HUMBLER!

STAND IN AWE OF MY HUMILITY!

Sconibulus

1 out of 1 @OrigamiRobots agree, @OrigamiRobot is the epitome of humility.

MBraedley

Arg, I hate Java, and Java hates me.

FEichinger

@MBraedley I feel ya.

MBraedley

Why can't I import a class that's in the same folder!

Stupid Java IDE, automatically adding an import that's not needed.

Lazers

19:44

4

Q: How do I destroy weeds in Innocent Life?

Quite differently from BTN, weeds do not get destroyed in Innocent Life when you throw it on the ground. So how can I permanently destroy it?

harvest-moon-innocent

0

Q: The Boethiahs calling quest

I've killed all the botheah followers at the shrine before I get to make the sacrifice, is that why I can't activate the pillar?

skyrim

0

Q: How long with PLAYSTATION PLUS offer these free games to download?

im thinking about getting the subscription but if its gonna go away in a few months when ps4 comes out, im not going to bother. Does anyone know how long they will offer the free games? Xbox free games stop in 12/2013.

ps3

0

Q: Why does a dead Elder Dragon kept spawning where ever I go?

There was this Elder Dragon that kept spawning everytime I fast travel. The dragon is already dead, but I can't get its soul. Any answers?

skyrim

FEichinger

How ... The ... How ... Why

OrigamiRobot

@Lazers Lots of examples of why TL needs to be A Thing again.

MBraedley

@FEichinger What is your confusion about?

FEichinger

@MBraedley First words of the questions. Was all I was able to read with a window above chat. Found it funny.

GnomeSlice

indiegamestand.com/developers

Oh man, 2 days till they launch the new stuff

This is going to be the shit

Ullallulloo

19:55

Well, I just bought a Nexus 4.

First cell phone

MBraedley

@Ullallulloo Diving straight into the deep end

Ullallulloo

16 GB from Ebay for $270

@MBraedley yep

If nothing else I guess I can resell it.

$80 off

MBraedley

GnomeSlice

1

A: Feasible level for Yuffie to be at in order to attempt Godo's pagoda

General hints for success: Counter materia is your friend. The higher level it is, the better your chance at countering attacks. Barrier materia is also incredibly helpful. Restore materia should be able to cast Cure 2 at least. As a general rule of thumb, Restore, Barrier, Counter, and Tim...

Yay he joined!

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