The Bridge

Memor-X

2:00 PM

@HazyKingdom and it's just ticked over to Saturday for me

so i guess i need a new face

Yuuki

i.imgur.com/oDNnl46.gifv

Kevin van der Velden

@Memor-X I'll go get my hammers

Yuuki

I'm confused as to how Fortnite will work.

With all the talk of it being Minecraft-like, it implies that there will be persistent worlds.

But at the same time, it's a multiplayer co-op game.

So will people be hosting their own games P2P? That's not going to work well with how the game seems to play.

MBraedley

@Yuuki Is there any context I should be aware of? Or is it just a cute baby elephant?

Beedrill

From this gameplay trailer Fortnite looks really cool.

Hearing it called "Minecraft-like" made me go in expecting to hate the idea of it.

Memor-X

2:09 PM

@Yuuki the trailer on the site says the opposite in that no 2 landscapes will be the same

Yuuki

@MBraedley The Pittsburgh Zoo's newest resident, I think.

Beedrill

@Memor-X Those are not mutually exclusive things.

You can have a unique world that no one else gets that's persistent so you play in the same world repeatedly.

Yuuki

Trawling through a few more articles, it seems that each "map" will last for an in-game 14 day cycle.

And you play it all in one session, so it's not persistent.

Beedrill

Ok, all of that cool-looking stuff I saw has now been undermined by this new development and my interest is zero again.

I can't wait to play Wipeout when I get home.

Yuuki

Depending on how long you want to spend on each day phase, I can easily imagine each session taking a really long time.

Ugh.

Memor-X

2:14 PM

it looked good but now it's sounding like it's more online that offline which kinda sucks

Yuuki

@Memor-X They've always put a lot of emphasis on the co-op, so I don't imagine why you'd think otherwise.

Dauntless - Forge Your Legend | E3 2017

►

I still feel like there's a certain something missing from the weapon hits.

Lazers 2.0

0

Q: How to detect a block in Minecraft from all sides using /execute and detect

I've recently added some new commands into a .mcfunction, since 1.12 is now out. What I wanted was that if the player ran directly into a block, it destroys it, now that works with this command: execute @a ~ ~ ~ detect ~1 ~ ~ minecraft:wool 7 setblock ~1 ~ ~ minecraft:air 0 destroy But my only...

Yuuki

I can't place it, but it just doesn't feel right.

Memor-X

@Yuuki well the last game i recall that was made by Epic is Unreal Tournament 3 and the single player was decent in that

Beedrill

@Yuuki This looks great.

I think I see what you're talking about, but not on every hit. The big monsters don't always react to getting sliced through with a giant sword.

DanmakuGrazer

2:19 PM

@Yuuki It's like hitting 10-damage hitzones

Yuuki

@Beedrill Well, they don't always react in Monster Hunter either.

DanmakuGrazer

There's no satisfactory sound, no weapon impact, no effect

Yuuki

Yeah, maybe it's just the sound.

Well, maybe also the attack animation.

DanmakuGrazer

The hitlag in MH is especially useful in figuring out if the part you're hitting is weak or not

And there's none in this that I can see

Yuuki

Some of the attack animations feel like they're just going through motions and not actually putting any weight into the attack.

Still looking forward to this game though.

DanmakuGrazer

2:22 PM

Like, at 0:54

It feels more like a paintbrush than a sword hit

Beedrill

@Yuuki I'm going to wait for more details about crafting.

I don't like crafting systems where you have to carefully plan what materials you need, then go out of your way to do specific actions to get the right materials.

I prefer crafting systems where you get everything you need naturally from doing the main fun game loop.

HazyKingdom

@Memor-X Well Happy Saturday!

PS - Debugging via Skype sucks ass

Nzall

@Beedrill I agree for the most part, but I feel like if you want the very strongest crafted equipment, you should put in effort for that

Beedrill

@Nzall Yeah, there's probably some acceptable balance.

I just hate busywork in games.

DanmakuGrazer

@Beedrill Examples?

Kevin van der Velden

2:30 PM

Any ubisoft open world game

Nzall

For example: Minecraft diamond equipment. Diamonds are pretty much used just for tools and armor or an enchanting table. To get them, you need to go to the lowest possible levels and get close to lava

Similarly, to craft legendary equipment in WoW, you need to do a small quest chain that takes you to 3 dungeons and 3 zones

Because that's part of what I disliked about Warlords: the crafting has barely any effort involved: you don't need reputation or special items to buy certain recipes, you just craft an item 5X, trade it to a vendor, then just do cooldowns. Nothing special. Every time before that, the least you had to do was go to a special vendor and get rep with them

Yuuki

I don't particularly like WoW's crafting system.

But then again, it feels like a side mechanic, not a real part of the game.

Especially with how the loot treadmill works in Legion, crafting equipment is especially junk.

Crafting consumables is definitely important but equipment not so much.

Beedrill

Games should figure out what their core fun gameplay loops are (most games have only one, but it's certainly not impossible to have more than one), and make sure that every system in the game serves to benefit that or benefit from that.

Nzall

@Yuuki Crafting equipment in Legion is not meant as a main gearing strategy though

Yuuki

Crafting in FFXIV is fun because it's more than mindless "get the things, click the craft button".

Nzall

2:35 PM

it's meant to be used alongside PvP or instances to shore up weak spots, or give people with tons of cash a quick start when they get a new alt

Beedrill

In Skyrim the core loop is exploring and finding cool new stuff, so the way alchemy works in that actually doesn't bother me because picking flowers is easy and you're walking past them anyway during your exploration.

In MMOs the core loop is more about gear progression and combat, so going out of your way to pick up crafting materials takes away from time doing the fun stuff.

Nzall

@Beedrill yeah, but that's for those MMOs and games where crafted gear is not the strongest in the game.

Beedrill

@Nzall Even if it is, it's too far removed from the core loop. You pick up things so you can craft gear so you can be more powerful during the fun bits.

It doesn't directly benefit the fun part, it indirectly benefits it.

DanmakuGrazer

Has Dauntless been confirmed to have gathering spots of some kind?

I don't think I've seen anything about that

Yuuki

Not that I'm aware of.

Beedrill

2:37 PM

@DanmakuGrazer I know next to nothing about it; I heard about it 5 minutes ago. All I said is I'm going to wait for more details before I decide whether I'm going to try it.

Nzall

@Beedrill Yeah, but you're not meant to just do crafting to get more powerful. You're meant to get more powerful through doing the fun bits, and crafting gear can help you if the fun bits don't give you anything

Beedrill

@Nzall The design fix should be to make sure the fun bits give you something rather than add a busywork system.

DanmakuGrazer

@Beedrill I meant to ask Yuuki

Nzall

@Beedrill Yeah, but from a game longevity perspective, you can't always have the fun bits give you everything you want, especially in MMOs and games focused on loot. Otherwise the player gets what they want and leave

Beedrill

@Nzall I'm not saying it has to have 100% return on exactly what you want 100% of the time. But the game should reward you the most for playing the game in the most fun way.

Kevin van der Velden

2:40 PM

Longevity (via busy-work) is not a good thing for some people =p

Nzall

And if you can't have it give you everything you want, you either need random drops (which can lead to certain pieces being weaker) or some kind of currency system (which becomes predictable and leads to everyone finishing at the same time

Beedrill

Most people are always going to play games in the most profitable way, so the game designer's job is to make sure the most profitable way is also the most fun way.

Nzall

@Beedrill Yes, but crafting isn't the most profitable way, so it shouldn't also be the most fun way

Beedrill

Then don't have it at all.

Nzall

And in games where crafting IS the most profitable way, it's also much more fun

Beedrill

2:41 PM

I feel like we're agreeing and just using different words.

Nzall

@Beedrill so if I get you right, you're saying "the most fun way to play a game should also be the most profitable way"?

And if a way isn't the most profitable way, it should be less fun?

And if a way is less fun than the most fun way, it shouldn't be in the game at all?

Beedrill

@Nzall No, not exactly.

You shouldn't specifically design things to be less fun.

What I'm saying is that you need to identify the core fun gameplay loop of your game and make sure that everything in the game services that loop directly.

If combat is the main loop, then don't add things to your game that don't help the player have fun in combat.

Nzall

@Beedrill If Blizzard did that, then WoW would never have pet battles, which many players are enjoying thoroughly but isn't the core fun gameplay loop for many players

Beedrill

If the best loot comes from combat itself, then why would you waste resources making a crafting system?

So there is some leeway, especially for MMOs.

RedRiderX

@Nzall At that point you have to bring in game scope, and how a game can be big enough to have meta games / mini games

Beedrill

2:46 PM

Different kind of players have fun doing different things, and multiple different compelling and fun gameplay loops can exist.

The scale of the game does affect this.

Crafting itself can be a fun and compelling gameplay loop if done right.

Nzall

@Beedrill It depends on what kind of game and how your loot works. if you have predestined loot that goes "you always get item X at place Y if you do Z", then players can plan their loot accordingly (1/2)

Beedrill

I just object to when companies feel obliged to tack on a boring and grindy crafting component to a game which doesn't actually service the main game.

@Nzall I feel like you're getting bogged down in details while I'm talking about game design philosophy.

Nzall

If your loot is randomly generated and a player cannot predict when they're getting gear or even if they're getting gear, then they need a way to compensate for lack of effect in certain slots

Beedrill

There are so many different ways that "best loot comes from combat itself" could be implemented.

Nzall

in that case, a crafting system can actually be useful

Beedrill

2:49 PM

I'm in no way arguing against crafting systems in general.

Nzall

@Beedrill Yes, but they all boil down to "is the loot a random item or a fixed item"

Lazers 2.0

2

Q: What is the purpose for the pod throwing you?

I completed all of the playthroughs in NieR: Automata and when going through the quests that I had missed through chapter select, I accidentally found a new move (R1 + X) where the pod kind of spins you in a circle and then throws you in the direction you are pointing. Is there a purpose for this...

nier-automata

Nzall

and that's what I'm trying to get at: in a random loot system, a crafting system can give players a fallback in case they don't get what they want from the loot boxes

Beedrill

And I never contested that point.

But they should be able to use that fallback without going out of their way to do busywork.

They should have gotten enough materials from their attempts to get good random rolls to make adequate fallback items.

This is how Diablo 3 works (currently), and it's really great.

Yuuki

tl;dr deconstructing equipment should be a thing

Kevin van der Velden

2:51 PM

tl;dr play games that are fun

MadMAxJr

I liked the grinder in Borderlands: Pre-Sequel.

Nzall

@Beedrill yes, I agree with that as well, but if you have crafted items that are of really high quality, I contend that they should have to go out of their way for that item

MadMAxJr

3 bad guns go in, new gun comes out.

Yuuki

@MadMAxJr You can't explain that.

Beedrill

@Nzall I say that that can work but doesn't always work; it depends on the implementation and on the rest of the game.

Nzall

2:54 PM

@Beedrill then it's up to the designers to make sure that the implementation makes acquiring the materials for that awesome infininitium dagger of +30 fun

and I think we can both agree on that

to summarize: a crafting system as a fallback is good in theory, but if the crafted system has top tier rewards, those rewards should require something that players have to actively search for.

Beedrill

@Nzall and the search itself needs to be fun

Yuuki

And optimally, the crafting system itself should be fun.

MadMAxJr

And not be a hunt for 5% drops. LOOKING AT YOU MONSTER HUNTER.

Yuuki

Some people may find it annoying, but I enjoy FFXIV's crafting mini-game.

MadMAxJr

Oh gee Max, were you looking for a Slickaxe? That's too bad....

DanmakuGrazer

2:57 PM

@MadMAxJr I find that the most fun part

Jason Berkan

Any game that has me hunting for x% drops is an immediate uninstall for me. I don't have that kind of time.

Though I agree with ex-Strix. Find your core gameplay loop and make stuff work with that.

Jutschge

@MadMAxJr but the fun is in the grind. Finally getting the plate off a specific monster is such a great achievement. Especially after you've killed it often enough to defeat it blindfolded.

MBraedley

Forcing people to change their password every x months (it's either 2, 3, or 4 in this case) does not, in general, make things more secure.

Beedrill

3:16 PM

@MBraedley For me it winds up making it less secure because my new password is invariably going to be easy to remember since I have to make it up on the spot.

At my old job I think I had to change every 6 months. Here it's every 2 years.

Frank

@MadMAxJr I think that's actually part of the fun.

"Yup, didn't get it this time. What can I do to make it go faster? How can I learn the monster better?"

Beedrill

Monster Hunter is the main game I think about when I try to think of examples of crafting systems I absolutely despise.

Frank

I find Monster Hunter does a really good job of rewarding preparedness, and the shitty drop rates give you incentive to prepare better and learn more.

Beedrill

To be fair, the core gameplay loop they're going for in Monster Hunter is not one that is compatible with my playstyle.

I don't like games that force you to prepare, beyond just "equip the best gear you have to date".

Frank

And then there's times where the RNG just messes with you and gives you four Earth Dragongems in a single hunt.

Yuuki

3:20 PM

@Frank And really all you want is Mohran Scales.

You need 5 and guess what? You got 2.

MadMAxJr

Are plates hard? I got a Rathian plate.

Yuuki

Depends on rank.

Frank

@Yuuki Remember the time I had to fight eight Wroggis to get two of the 70% chance to drop items?

Yuuki

@Frank The Desire Sensor is a cruel mistress.

Frank

I was getting pissed off because I was getting the more rare item.

MadMAxJr

3:21 PM

I can't wait to get into HR and fight Seltas again.

Beedrill

I'm hoping Dauntless winds up being more towards my preferred gaming style than Monster Hunter.

Less about research and preparing and more about just learning to fight the monsters.

Yuuki

I remember that one time I got three Gems from a single Rathalos fight and not a single Shell.

MadMAxJr

Shells/scales are easy now, you don't even have to fight the monster. Just fire cats out of a cannon in the mini game.

DanmakuGrazer

@Beedrill What's the difference?

MadMAxJr

Eventually I have to sit down and figure out how to farm defiled scales off Gore Magala.

Beedrill

3:22 PM

@DanmakuGrazer Monster Hunter has things like hot/cold potions you have to drink to survive in cold/hot areas, respectively.

If you didn't remember to craft some and bring them with you, then I guess you're just fucked.

I'm not a big fan of that kind of mechanic.

It's also about learning monster patterns and actually fighting them, and I really enjoyed that part of Monster Hunter.

I just didn't like any of the surrounding aspects.

DanmakuGrazer

What about Potions and Whetstones?

Or ammo for a gunner

MadMAxJr

Learning to hunt Tigrex: Don't ever be in front of Tigrex.

Beedrill

I said "things like" not "this is the only example".

badp

@MadMAxJr can you be in front of Tigrex once you are done learning how to hunt Tigrex

Beedrill

@badp with his infinite semantic wisdom

DanmakuGrazer

3:25 PM

Do those count?

Yuuki

@MadMAxJr Unless you have a counter-based attack style. Guard Points, whoo!

Frank

@MadMAxJr Find HR hunters. Join group. Murder the poor black dragon.

DanmakuGrazer

Or is it any kind of inventory management?

Frank

@MadMAxJr Or carry a big shield and not care.

Beedrill

I don't like when games let you get yourself into an unwinnable situation and it hasn't already told you you've lost.

MBraedley

3:26 PM

So Roman Mars (of 99% Invisible and this awesome TED Talk) is starting a new constitutional law podcast. All Americans should go listen to at least the first episode.

Beedrill

Anyway, I'm off to lunch.

MadMAxJr

I haven't really tried anything with a shield yet.

I'm more a fan of standing ten feet away and shooting things with infinity arrows.

Occasionally gigantic whack-a-mole with a hammer.

MBraedley

Specifically, it concerns parts of the constitution that isn't normally considered important for teaching in a con law class, but is now important given Trump.

Yuuki

Guard Points are just cool because your shield is basically exploding on contact.

That's pretty metal.

MadMAxJr

Gunlancers are pretty metal.

Yuuki

3:31 PM

As are most non-Bone weapons.

badp

@Beedrill Déformation professionnelle

mais oui tres bien tout jour de la cross rien ne va pas

just sprinkle some accents on top

GodEmperorDune

@HazyKingdom this is my friday face

badp

(ノ°o°）ノ `'^^`''`'`
       je parle les francaise!!

pictured: how to french

DanmakuGrazer

MadMAxJr

Oww.

Yuuki

3:52 PM

unexpected good boy

badp

@DanmakuGrazer are you native from the place where people get post-bad-puns homeopathy

you know, an altERnative

DanmakuGrazer

I'm thoroughly lost

MBraedley

@Yuuki FAKE!

Although, honestly, who would keep a shark as a pet?

@badp I don't think that's how you spell that. At least not in Canadian French.

Unionhawk

Not sure why everyone is saying May had such a bad night when she won so many acres. https://t.co/A9Y0E7ZVEN

Tweeted by pbump on June 9, 2017 at 4:01 PM

lol

badp

(I was typing ARTfully on purpose)

Unionhawk

4:03 PM

it's funny because that county map

badp

it's funny because that's what the republicans want to have

just to make elections completely pointless forever

Unionhawk

3000000000 counties each containing 1 Republican voter

Yuuki

@Frank I know what kit you should do next.

badp

@Unionhawk 1 millionth

Unionhawk

And 1 containing all Democratic voters

Yuuki

4:06 PM

Unionhawk

What

Yuuki

From what I can tell, it's from a much less serious Gundam anime.

Or at the very least, much less grimdark.

The main characters are Gundam figurine builders like @Frank!

They build Gundam figurines and then fight to the death! Well, not "death".

Frank

@Yuuki Too simple.

I've done a few Build Fighter kits.

Wipqozn

4:32 PM

@MadMAxJr Yeah if you stand in front of Tigrex you're in for a bad time

MadMAxJr

4:48 PM

Mostly a lot of flying through the air and hitting the ground.

Lazers 2.0

-2

Q: Writing a summary about a game

I want to write a very long summary (+20 pages) about a game, including walkthrough. I'm asking for a site where I can do that for free. I'm looking for something like pastebin but cuter. Also, I don't want people to write comments (just like pastebin, it is public but you can't make any comment...

technical-issues

Lazers 2.0

5:12 PM

-1

Q: Villager | Trade enchanted_book

I would like to ask how to make a resident with a custom trade who will sell enchanted books? For example, for 18 emeralds to sell a book with enchantment sharpness?

minecraft minecraft-commands

0

Q: Does chances of specific training scale the same way that food does?

I noticed that the food that occurs most frequently is the food that gives the lowest JP, regardless of where the food is located on the list. I know this to be true because I leveled up my Oran Berry to have more JP than my Sitrus Berry and then suddenly the Sitrus Berries occurred more frequent...

magikarp-jump

-1

Q: Skullgirls Peacock Moves

How do you use Peacock on the keyboard? I use the keyboard and the only controls I know are the canon and the poke thing, can someone please tell me how to use Peacock on Skullgirls moves on the keyboard

skullgirls

Avery

@DanmakuGrazer oh so that's why mom has been less active as a mom lately.

Beedrill

5:27 PM

potus.justforoneday.me

Dragonrage

So while I was getting blood work done, my bp dropped to 82/38

Apparently that's bad.

Sterno

@Beedrill I've been giving it a break until their servers are better

Lazers 2.0

0

Q: Full screen problem

I wanted to play Minecraft with my friends . so i start up Minecraft put it in full screen and here's what happened I've tried restarting my game and changing the resolution.

minecraft technical-issues

Sepia Lazers

0

Q: How should we treat Minecraft Command questions that do not include any kind of code?

I've noticed an influx in minecraft-commands questions recently where the questions do not have any kind of code. Take this question and this question for example. Now, on StackOverflow, there is a flag/close reason for these kind of questions: Questions seeking debugging help ("why isn't t...

discussion allowed-questions

Nzall

Does anyone have a suggestion for a good entry-level roguelike?

DanmakuGrazer

5:40 PM

What genre?

Beedrill

@Nzall What do you mean by entry-level?

@DanmakuGrazer :|

Nzall

or rather, TB-style roguelite: permadeath, procedural generation and metaprogress

Beedrill

Oh, metaprogress.

Nzall

Something accessible

DanmakuGrazer

@Beedrill See, I smelt the meaning of that question

Beedrill

5:41 PM

If metaprogress weren't a requirement I'd say Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup.

DanmakuGrazer

That's smelled, not smelting

Beedrill

That's the most accessible actual roguelike that I know of.

Nzall

@Beedrill something accessible

Beedrill

Maybe ToME actually, that has a smattering of meta-progress.

Nzall

well, the metaprogress is actually important for me

Ronan

5:41 PM

Crypt of the Necrodancer.

Beedrill

And it has a lot of new-player-friendly conveniences.

Jason Berkan

Crawl for sure. It's the one I like the most.

DanmakuGrazer

@Ronan What genre though?

Nzall

@Beedrill I have no idea what that abbreviation means

Beedrill

@DanmakuGrazer Roguelike is a genre.

If you take away the fact that it's applied to tons of games of other genres recently.

DanmakuGrazer

5:42 PM

@Beedrill Not in the way he means it

Ronan

It's also a rhythm game!

Beedrill

Do you mean "What other genre?"

@Nzall Tales of Maj'Eyal I think.

murgatroid99

The Binding of Isaac: Rebirth is a great roguelite with metaprogress

DanmakuGrazer

No, I mean "What genre?"

Beedrill

@murgatroid99 Yes, actually, this is probably the answer.

@DanmakuGrazer Roguelike; he said that already.

Ronan

5:43 PM

I also recommend Dungeons of Dredmor.

DanmakuGrazer

3 mins ago, by Nzall

or rather, TB-style roguelite: permadeath, procedural generation and metaprogress

That's not roguelike

Nzall

@DanmakuGrazer I'd prefer something third person or first person, not sidescroller/twinstick/topdown/isometric

Beedrill

@DanmakuGrazer Two of those 3 are hallmarks of roguelikes.

Binding of Isaac is a roguelike that firmly fits into the actual genre definition and fits his description the best.

Nzall

@DanmakuGrazer as I said, I mean TB-style rogueliTe, as he explains in the video he uploaded today

DanmakuGrazer

@Nzall I know what you meant, yeah

murgatroid99

5:44 PM

@Nzall "not sidescroller/twinstick/topdown/isometric" eliminates just about every game in the category

Kevin van der Velden

@Beedrill and the last one (metaprogression) is roguelite (note the t =p)

Beedrill

Ok, let me now admit my mistake and that I didn't realize he said "roguelite" not "roguelike".

Nzall

A) BoI is a twinstick for me; B) I get thoroughly uncomfortable of the BoI art style

Beedrill

It's late on a Friday.

Ronan

Aha! Heavy Bullets!

Beedrill

5:45 PM

BoI is a twinstick roguelike

Ronan

That's a first person roguelike.

Kevin van der Velden

@Beedrill hence the smiley faces :)

Nzall

@murgatroid99 there are roguelites that are not controlled in that fashion

murgatroid99

@Nzall Hence "just about".

DanmakuGrazer

I can't really think of any good third/first person ones

Well, ones I think are interesting, rather

They might be good to someone else

Beedrill

5:46 PM

Can we come up with term for "roguelite" that isn't so easily confusable with "roguelike"?

DanmakuGrazer

@Beedrill Rogue Legacy-like?

Jason Berkan

Turn based is a requirement for a roguelike, IMO. And ANSI graphics! If I'm not that stupid smilie faced person, I'm unhappy.

Beedrill

@Nzall Rogue Legacy itself?

@JasonBerkan Aren't you usually an @ symbol, not a smile?

Nzall

@Beedrill I own that one, but I suck at it

murgatroid99

@Beedrill You're a smile in the original Rogue. I think the @ comes mainly from Nethack

Ronan

5:48 PM

Nuclear Throne isn't turn based, it is top down though.

Beedrill

@murgatroid99 TIL

Nethack was the first one I ever tried.

Nzall

@JasonBerkan again, roguelite, not roguelike. I'm looking for a game where:

Beedrill

I didn't try it for long.

Crawl was much more my thing.

Jason Berkan

@Beedrill In Crawl, yes. In Rogue, you were the ASCII smiling face.

Beedrill

And Crawl has a pretty graphic tileset.

Nzall

5:48 PM

1. your progress in one playthrough affect your sequential playthroughs

Jason Berkan

Does this onebox?

Rogue in all its glory!

Nzall

actually, that's essentially it: I just want a game where I always feel like I made some progress at the end of the line

Beedrill

Trimps

murgatroid99

@JasonBerkan I'm familiar with Rogue mainly from the one Rogue level in each Nethack dungeon

@Nzall Cookie Clicker

Beedrill

@Nzall trimps.github.io

Jason Berkan

5:50 PM

@murgatroid99 Kids. I played Rogue on an 8086.

Ronan

@Nzall Definitely Necrodancer then.

Jason Berkan

Can't remember if I ever beat it. It gets ridiculously difficult.

Nzall

@Ronan that's topdown, and I completely suck at rhythm games

Yuuki

@Nzall Enter the Gungeon?

Beedrill

@Yuuki He didn't want twinstick.

Yuuki

5:51 PM

Oh, that's top-down too.

Kevin van der Velden

@Beedrill roguelight?

murgatroid99

The problem is that "topdown or sidescroller" describes just about every roguelite

Kevin van der Velden

Same pronounciation, slightly more distinct spelling

Beedrill

@KevinvanderVelden Actually yes this would be great.

Kevin van der Velden

That's how I've always called it as well =p

Ronan

5:52 PM

Yeah, I can think of a couple of procedural first person games, but no first person meta progression ones.

@Nzall It's really good though.

Yuuki

Alternately, "roguedark".

Or "rougedark".

"Rougelight"?

Ronan

What's the criteria for a roguelite?

murgatroid99

12 mins ago, by Nzall

or rather, TB-style roguelite: permadeath, procedural generation and metaprogress

Yuuki

About the only thing I've seen as a common thread is "prepare to die".

Nzall

@Ronan for me, whether a game is good depends on whether I'm good at it. One constant with every difficult game I played so far, including Rogue Legacy, is that I get frustrated by the lack of progress

Ronan

5:53 PM

@murgatroid99 Just those three?

Kevin van der Velden

There's less important ones that are related to the genre but not critical to it

Nzall

@Ronan For me, just the metaprogress is important right now

Ronan

So like... Iterative progression games.

DanmakuGrazer

@Nzall How about just an RPG instead?

murgatroid99

@Nzall I don't think "metaprogress" is as much of a meaningful concept without the other two

Beedrill

5:55 PM

@Nzall Play an incremental game.

murgatroid99

What's "meta" about progression in a game where you don't have to start over?

Nzall

@Ronan Yeah, but with enjoyable gameplay

Jason Berkan

What's not enjoyable about clicking the same button 3,000 times?

Ronan

No I mean call them that instead of something that sounds like another thing.

DanmakuGrazer

Like, I'm trying to understand why you find the concept of roguelites appealing

Kevin van der Velden

5:55 PM

@JasonBerkan RSI

Nzall

@murgatroid99 can also be progression in a game where you finish the game and then get extra stuff in next playthroughs

Ronan

No that's incremental games. Dammit they are similar.

Kevin van der Velden

@Ronan but the use of the term roguelight is that they came from roguelike (but are distinct in an important way (how important left up for debate))

Ronan

@KevinvanderVelden What is the distinction? Just the metaprogression?

murgatroid99

@Ronan That is what I would consider to be the primary distinction

Kevin van der Velden

5:57 PM

Mostly, though roguelike places more emphasis on the top-down, singleplayer, hack and slash gameplay

Nzall

@DanmakuGrazer Well, essentially, something I've been looking for a long time without much success is a game where the core of the game is having a persistent element between levels that serves both as a hub between levels and a measure of progression through the game

murgatroid99

@Nzall Realm Grinder (an incremental game with prestiges and unlocks)

Nzall

Something like the keep in Neverwinter Nights 2

@murgatroid99 According to steam, that's not available yet

Dragonrage

@JasonBerkan idk, i play mobas and you click the same buttons like 3000 times

Ronan

How about Roguelike+? Because it's roguelike with new game+.

Nzall

5:57 PM

but it does look interesting

murgatroid99

@Nzall It's on Kongregate

Ronan

Or prestige roguelike.

DanmakuGrazer

@Nzall That's an RPG, isn't it?

You level up, get stronger, and go on different quests

Kevin van der Velden

@Ronan that's not metaprogression, that's just expanding the concept of level to include "the same thing, but everything is even harder"

Nzall

@DanmakuGrazer Yeah, kinda, but it's not character level I'm interested in, but rather something beyond my character

DanmakuGrazer

5:59 PM

Have you tried Darkest Dungeon?

Dragonrage

We are a distribution company for e liqued andwe need some one who have a really good skill on computers and web and program and seo

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thank you

Ronan

@KevinvanderVelden Some newgame+es start you will more stuff next time.

Dragonrage

a legit job posting i found

Nzall

@DanmakuGrazer I've considered that one, but again, the aesthetics don't appeal to me

too grimdark

Ronan

I like prestige roguelike personally.

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