The Bridge

12:10 AM

so hackers are God now. Science has won people!

0

So recently I found out that these things called functions are coming into minecraft. Honestly, I've never tried messing with command blocks and stuff but it did perk my interest. Mostly I'm curious about a few things. Can functions have input values used as parameters? Can functions return cal...

why is this "too broad"? It's a pretty simplistic question. Just wanna know whether or not functions have inputs and outputs built into them. Seems like a pretty cut and dry question to me.

murgatroid99

> Also, were any new features added in relation to minecraft functions? I know this is slightly irrelevant to the subject of functions...

I don't think that helped

Also, the way your question is worded, it's not really clear that you only want to know the answers to the questions in the two list items

Wipqozn

What @murgatroid99 said, because asking for a comparison of a programming function and a minecraft function is really broad.

murgatroid99

12:28 AM

Plus, the "conventional meaning of a 'function'" isn't even consistent across programming paradigms

TheGreatDuck

@murgatroid99 actually. Functions always take in an input and return an output

see math

Memor-X

@TheGreatDuck in programming they don't always "take in an input and return an output"

GodEmperorDune

@Ash this game is hard and annoying, i never have enough coins to pick the better option

TheGreatDuck

@Memor-X then they are not functions.

Wipqozn

I, for one, am going to go to bed before I lose a bunch of time to this conversation

GodEmperorDune

12:31 AM

and i can't defer building shitty buildings until i have coins later

user15026

@GodEmperorDune Its a little tricky to balance, yeah.

TheGreatDuck

they could be methods or operations (if we mean in the context of objects), but functions are functions. They have inputs and outputs or at least the capability of having such things even if the exact 'function' makes no use of such features.

Private Pansy

TheresaMay.js cc @fredley

TheGreatDuck

even still, I define that in my post, so that shouldn't be a big deal. After all, this is gaming not SO.

Avery

@Memor-X yessss financial freedom at last

Private Pansy

12:33 AM

> TheresaMay.js is a simple JavaScript framework (why not) that can be quickly deployed in situations where the real Theresa May can't be bothered to show up.

The framework attempts to emulate Mrs May by first disregarding the question, then smashing together a bunch of randomly generated strings around a party line.

The code has been poorly thought though and hastily put together under the influence of alcohol so in that regard it is very much like the Conservative Manifesto. It also contains absolutely no costings.

Memor-X

@TheGreatDuck not true, infact in Refactoring one of the code smells we were taught was repeated output messages which could be put into a function and called via that

GodEmperorDune

@PrivatePansy hue

Unionhawk

A function as a programming concept is not necessarily the same as a function as in a mathematical concept

TheGreatDuck

@Memor-X but the language had the capability of outputting values to be used in the language's other portions of code, correct?

@Unionhawk yes, I know that, but conventionally the syntax provides the option of input and output. Granted, it wouldn't surprise me if homebrew languages abuse the syntax.

GodEmperorDune

wtf is this wild semantics argument

Memor-X

12:36 AM

such a function would take no inport and some people would argue that it as no true output as it doesn't return anything

GodEmperorDune

most of programming is about functions with side effects

TheGreatDuck

@Memor-X yes, but 'refactoring' has functions that return values and take in values, correct?

Memor-X

@TheGreatDuck most yes but your comment was "Functions always take in an input and return an output" which isn't true. they don't always

TheGreatDuck

@Memor-X I corrected myself. I meant that languages which use the term have a means by which to output values. Of course there are void functions with no input.

GodEmperorDune

@TheGreatDuck i make lots of functions which don't output values

Memor-X

12:39 AM

@TheGreatDuck no, Code refactoring is the process of restructuring existing computer code—changing the factoring—without changing its external behavior

TheGreatDuck

@GodEmperorDune yes, I get that now. I wasn't being explicit.

GodEmperorDune

a setter on an object, for example

TheGreatDuck

@Memor-X I misunderstood. I thought you were saying the name of a language.

Private Pansy

Heh, it has this in a template "Every vote for Jeremy Corbyn is a vote for {{BADTHING}}., and the list of BADTHING contain Jeremy Corbyn

So you can generate the deliciously tautological line "Every vote for Jeremy Corbyn is a vote for Jeremy Corbyn"

Unionhawk

That Theresa May, she is technically correct some of the time

TheGreatDuck

12:41 AM

I was meaning that the conventional meaning of a function is that one can add inputs and outputs. I'm not saying the language enforces a requirement of having them always.

anyways...

-1

So recently I found out that these things called functions are coming into minecraft. Honestly, I've never tried messing with command blocks and stuff but it did perk my interest. Mostly I'm curious about a few things. Can functions have input values used as parameters? Can functions return cal...

minecraft minecraft-commands

i edited

murgatroid99

@TheGreatDuck part of the issue here is that your question seemed to refer to inputs and outputs as examples of properties of functions that you want to know about, instead of the only such properties

TheGreatDuck

and btw, I continue my ever increasing emphasis on that minecraft needs arrays.

@murgatroid99 people should read the body of the question. Titles are just titles. It should be clear that's all I'm asking. Otherwise, I'd ask it.

murgatroid99

When you say that you "mostly" want to know about some things, it implies that you also want information about other things

TheGreatDuck

@murgatroid99 I didn't ask about anything else, so that just makes the question unclear by your argument. It doesn't make it "broad". For it to be broad would mean that I must somehow be asking another particular question.

Also, it has already been answered. Why are people closing answered questions?

Frank

Because answer acceptance means nothing to question topicality.

If your question is answered, great! That doesn't mean it's a question we accept.

TheGreatDuck

12:47 AM

@Frank the question isn't off topic. It's supposedly too broad, but if it is answered it cannot be 'too broad' as then how can it be answered?

how can a too broad be feasibly answered?

Frank

You're trying to compare a constructed in-game attempt at programming to actual programming.

murgatroid99

@TheGreatDuck If a question is too broad and an answer is concise, that implies that the answer is incomplete

TheGreatDuck

I specifically asked if they inputs and outpurs

@murgatroid99 it is complete.

Frank

If you want to ask about how thing work in Minecraft, I think we wouldn't have any issues.

murgatroid99

@TheGreatDuck You asked for a comparison. You mostly asked about inputs and outputs

TheGreatDuck

12:50 AM

@Frank I asked if minecraft functions have inputs and outputs and gave it a suitable title based on my thoughts when asking.

@murgatroid99 Mostly is JUST a filler word.

Frank

Its specifically the comparison to actual programming that makes it too broad, in my opinion.

TheGreatDuck

quit reading between the lines and being so technical. XD

that's a technicality and you know it.

murgatroid99

@TheGreatDuck or just edit the question

TheGreatDuck

@Frank that's idiotic. It's a title

Frank

If it's a technicality, edit it out.

TheGreatDuck

12:51 AM

I said what I'm curious about.

I never said what I was asking

Frank

If you insist on keeping it, it's not a technicality, now is it?

TheGreatDuck

@Frank you're making no sense. I'm saying he's being technical about it having meaning...

or implying that I'm asking some invisible unmentioned question

what else am I asking?

Frank

The answer specifically answers the comparison between actual code and Minecraft code. I'd say that's not at all a technicality.

murgatroid99

If everyone else is misinterpreting your writing, maybe the fault is with your writing

Frank

@TheGreatDuck We're pointing out what you need to do to fix your question.

TheGreatDuck

12:54 AM

I asked why it was too broad. Instead of explaining what about my actual intended question is too broad you point out random words that probably have no bearing on the closure...

(to be honest, it was probably closed because of the argument in the comments...)

Frank

...

TheGreatDuck

-1

Can functions have input values used as parameters? Can functions return calculated values to be then used as parameters to other functions?

minecraft minecraft-commands

Frank

We've pointed out specifically why its closed.

TheGreatDuck

fine, I made the question what you want it

Frank

All we've gotten is arguments on how that's not it.

No, you didn't.

All you're doing is removing the context, while not actually fixing it.

TheGreatDuck

12:56 AM

@Frank I'm not asking how to fix it. I'm asking what about asking about inputs and outputs are too broad. I'm assuming that the question is truly unfixable.

I removed the paragraphs causing it to be broad

you said it was those paragraphs

?

Frank

@TheGreatDuck Then...why are you asking?

TheGreatDuck

cause I wish to know...?

Frank

If you assume it's unfixable, what was the point of this argument?

TheGreatDuck

it says to come ask.

am I not required to discuss it and determine my ban?

Frank

Do you want to salvage your question or not?

Wait, you're banned?

TheGreatDuck

12:58 AM

I assume there's a temporary ban in response to the closure?

that's what the other site did way back when

Frank

You only get a ban if you consistently post low quality content.

One question isn't going to do it.

TheGreatDuck

No, I was actually given a ban by the moderators.

Avery

Oh hello, @TheGreatDuck, we meet again.

TheGreatDuck

but it was a long time ago so perhaps times have changed

murgatroid99

Closure isn't a punishment. It just stops answers and gives the author the opportunity to improve the quality if possible

TheGreatDuck

1:01 AM

oh.

well a while back some SE sites actually banned people whenever a question was closed. But perhaps those mods were later removed.

i assumed that was still a thing

murgatroid99

I'm pretty sure that never happened

TheGreatDuck

:/

user15026

If it was, it was a very isolated thing

user15026

But afaik it was never a thing

Frank

I concur with @murgatroid99

TheGreatDuck

1:02 AM

probably getting confused with that stupid quora thing then

that site is evil.

Frank

We don't ban willy nilly here.

TheGreatDuck

fair enough

Beedrill

@GnomeSlice Wipeout is growing on me a lot as I play more. The higher speed classes are nuts.

TheGreatDuck

i just assumed that i should come talk to a mod. XD

in that case then, what am I supposed to do for the question then? You said that the statements were confusing. I got rid of them. I don't know why you complained... to be honest the question is far more obvious and concise.

-_-

why did someone vote to delete it?

Avery

can you link it?

user15026

1:05 AM

@TheGreatDuck Wait and see if people think it is worth reopening. That's about all you can do, if you've improved it as much as you feel is possible

TheGreatDuck

we were already discussing it avery. you came into the middle of a discussion. Just scroll up a bit. :-)

Frank

@TheGreatDuck Because we seem to have finished our discussion, and its still too broad.

user15026

Not every question is salvageable.

Frank

Hence, it requires deletion.

TheGreatDuck

I removed the sentence you said specifically made it too broad.

?

-1

Can functions have input values used as parameters? Can functions return calculated values to be then used as parameters to other functions?

minecraft minecraft-commands

Frank

1:06 AM

No, the title still says it.

Avery

@TheGreatDuck see, it'd take less to link it than type that up, and I'm on mobile and am eating something. <rant> thanks for linking.

TheGreatDuck

ITS A TITLE

Frank

What's the, "conventional meaning of a function"?

TheGreatDuck

@Frank it's just a title to make the question sound nice

idk

it's a title

Frank

Do you mean a math function? Programming? Some other function definition we don't know about?

TheGreatDuck

1:07 AM

that's irrelevant

user15026

@TheGreatDuck No, it's supposed to give a concise view of what you're asking

Avery

I see numerous issues here

TheGreatDuck

@Ash and it does. See the body.

that's what I'm asking

Avery

firstly, you're asking multiple questions in one question.

user15026

@TheGreatDuck Obviously not enough, or not correctly, or the body doesn't clarify enough

Frank

1:07 AM

What utility is there in comparing a game's language to some arbitrary real world thing?

TheGreatDuck

@Avery they are one and the same. I'm asking if they have input and output

Avery

secondly, your title is confusing and/or too broad

TheGreatDuck

@Avery the conventional meaning of a function is they have inputs and outputs. Period. That is the ONLY meaning of the word function.

user15026

@TheGreatDuck Disagree, as do others

TheGreatDuck

@Ash I removed 90% of the original question.

user15026

1:08 AM

Basically, here's the deal - if you want to get it reopened you have to be willing to consider views and understandings of what you have posted other than your own

TheGreatDuck

it's no longer what was closed

Frank

Why is this comparison valuable? What makes it useful?

TheGreatDuck

@Frank why do I need to explain that? Questions are just questions.

Avery

Am I authorized to rant?

TheGreatDuck

@Avery I was not aware you needed authorization?

Frank

1:09 AM

Also, your definition of function is nowhere near what most would think it is.

@TheGreatDuck If you want to reopen it, you need to demonstrate a value proposition.

And salvage it.

@Avery Rant away.

TheGreatDuck

@Frank that's absurd. If a question is following the rules, that is all that is required.

Frank

@TheGreatDuck Yeah. And it doesn't.

TheGreatDuck

questions are not supposed to be riddledwith junk justifying them. That wastes readers time and interest.

Frank

But I'm done. Either listen to what we've said, or don't. Don't care.

TheGreatDuck

@Frank you're just saying its too broad? What makes it too broad. I asked a clear and concise question that was answered. How can it possibly be too broad?

Frank

1:12 AM

58 secs ago, by Frank

But I'm done. Either listen to what we've said, or don't. Don't care.

TheGreatDuck

and even then, how can comparing it to functions in general be at all broad?

Avery

@Frank actually I won't. Something about wipqozn's warning.

user15026

@TheGreatDuck People keep trying to explain to you why it isn't broad and you're not listening

Avery

^

TheGreatDuck

but it was answered

?

Avery

1:13 AM

people answer ID reqs

TheGreatDuck

how can a broad question be answered successfuly?

user15026

@TheGreatDuck By someone typing words in a text box that they feel might answer based on their interpretation

Avery

If you want a policy change, then chat is not the place for it.

TheGreatDuck

@Ash it was answered properly

user15026

@TheGreatDuck Perhaps, in your opinion, based on your interpretation of your own question

user15026

1:14 AM

but enough people feel like what you are asking isn't clear or bounded well enough to be kept, so they voted

user15026

if you can't convince them, it's not going to get reopened

TheGreatDuck

@Ash except that I know it was closed because the people who closed it are the one's who were arguing in the answers comments. They closed it because the question was downvoted in retaliation of me claiming the answer had to be flawed because it was downvoted.

user15026

@TheGreatDuck I don't think that is the case

Avery

Can you listen instead of arguing?

people are telling you what's wrong and what you need to do.

TheGreatDuck

I am listening. All I see is that the question needs to be erased to nothing and the title needs to be deleted?

Avery

1:17 AM

You need to be more specific with title and body.

TheGreatDuck

the body is already precise

?

it's two sentences

-1

Q: Question about minecraft functions

Can functions have input values used as parameters? Can functions return calculated values to be then used as parameters to other functions?

minecraft minecraft-commands

Avery

It's two broad sentences.

TheGreatDuck

"Can functions have input values used as parameters?" <= how is that broad?

what argument do you have to it being broad?

user15026

@TheGreatDuck "Question about minecraft functions" is a terrible title. It tells you nothing about what the question actually wants

TheGreatDuck

@Ash you said the title had to be removed. I removed it.

?

user15026

1:19 AM

@TheGreatDuck ....what no

user15026

the title as it stood didn't explain very clearly what you wanted, and this certainly doesn't either

Beedrill

They're yes/no questions, which aren't great for our format, but to be honest I don't see why this question should be closed.

Avery

@TheGreatDuck Explaining what you mean in a bit more detail and giving real world cases would make it better.

TheGreatDuck

@Ash it does. It's about minecraft functions and whether or not they match up with the conventional idea of what functions are?

Function (mathematics)

In mathematics, a function is a relation between a set of inputs and a set of permissible outputs with the property that each input is related to exactly one output. An example is the function that relates each real number x to its square x2. The output of a function f corresponding to an input x is denoted by f(x) (read "f of x"). In this example, if the input is −3, then the output is 9, and we may write f(−3) = 9. Likewise, if the input is 3, then the output is also 9, and we may write f(3) = 9. (The same output may be produced by more than one input, but each input gives only one output.) The...

idk why comes up under math

functions are always the same

user15026

@TheGreatDuck Okay, I think you need to explain you want to know that in relation to math functions, because people have mentioned that programming languages handle functions differently, etc

TheGreatDuck

1:20 AM

@Avery WAT

now I know that makes no sense

user15026

Anyway, I don't know enough about MC or functions to help here, I'm just trying to clarify what others are telling you

user15026

I'm going to go back to watching Letterkenny's commentary stuff because that I understand. (/cc @Fluttershy)

TheGreatDuck

@Ash but the sentences in the body make that clear. The issue was the open ended question in the original question. I've removed 90% of the question. I went through and deleted everything. The original asked about a lot more stuff...

Avery

Try saying "Hello I want to make this and this, which is possible through maths or programming like this and that, is this possible on Minecraft and if it is, how?"

Lazers 2.0

0

Q: Is there anyway to tell what level is needed to open treasure chests in the Shifting Tombs other than attempting to open it?

Recently, a big update to Runescape introduced Menaphos (well, the ability to finally enter it after 12 years). Within the city is the new Thieving minigame called the Shifting Tombs. One of the objectives in this minigame is to open all the treasure chests and loot them. Now, in a solo game, ...

runescape

TheGreatDuck

1:22 AM

@Avery NO. I am asking whether or not the language has a feature. A built in feature. It's not "how do I do this." Now you are twisting my question into something it isn't...

@Avery "Hello I want to make this and this" What am I wishing to make?

Aequitas

hello

lel

TheGreatDuck

...

Avery

Your question is like "Can I see the amount of items in a list in python?"

and the answer you expect is "yes"

not "Yes, with len()"

Aequitas

i think the question is okay as is no?

Beedrill

"How can I pass values to a custom function, do a calculation with them, and return a value?"

Would that question be on topic?

TheGreatDuck

1:24 AM

@Avery No. It's specifically asking about syntax.

Beedrill

For a game-specific programming "language" like Minecraft.

According to whoever is arguing against this one.

Frank

@Beedrill That sounds like a fine question.

Avery

Whatever man, I can't assume good intent anymore and will disengage.

Unionhawk

In askreddit style, not actively against, but I think it would be

Beedrill

@Frank That's effectively the same thing that this question we're arguing about is asking, but worded slightly differently.

TheGreatDuck

1:25 AM

@Beedrill How is vague. One could do that by putting blocks in the world and then destroying them. You're proposing a vague question with loopholes.

Beedrill

Can we please act in good faith and fix questions instead of arguing for literally an hour over syntax?

Unionhawk

No USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS (editor's note: no not really)

Beedrill

@TheGreatDuck Ok, I guess I'll just step out since you are being argumentative for the sake of it.

TheGreatDuck

@Beedrill I'm acting in good faith. Why do you accuse me of acting in bad faith.

and I'm not arguing for the sake of it...

Beedrill

@TheGreatDuck You have interpreted my words exactly backwards, I am arguing that your question is fine.

See ya.

TheGreatDuck

1:26 AM

wat

user15026

@ThomasWard all is well here :)

Thomas Ward

@Ash indeed. But I needed context for the flag because curiosity.

And mobile chat? Notoriously painful with log viewing

TheGreatDuck

it says user was banned

user15026

@ThomasWard Fair enough, there's not much.

Thomas Ward

so i just hopped in :)

TheGreatDuck

1:27 AM

so I flagged it in case of abust...

sorry if that was a mistake. :p

Thomas Ward

@Ash that's usually how you determine what is or isn't crap flagging ;)

ArtEze

@Ash Your nick is cenizas in spanish.

Frank

Mobile chat has no flags, nor message history.

I has a sad.

user15026

@ArtEze I've learned a new thing! :)

Thomas Ward

@Frank standard chat via mobile aka TABLET

user15026

1:28 AM

(I know very little spanish.)

Thomas Ward

just easier to read it in standard chat view then switch to Mobile view :P

TheGreatDuck

@Beedrill no you're arguing I change it to asking how to do something. Avery is arguing the same as you and I'm saying that the question is about a precise mechanism whereas the proposed change would be something I wasn't asking...

Frank

@ThomasWard I'm sitting in my dance studio, on my phone. So, my options are currently limited.

Avery

@TheGreatDuck look. Please. It's been just 3 days. CMs were involved. Stop.

Aequitas

@Avery 3 days? you mean hours right?

Beedrill

1:29 AM

@TheGreatDuck Then leave the question as is and let it get automatically deleted when the bot cleans things up and feel free to come back to Arqade when you are ready to accept that we already have established customs and rules.

user15026

I kinda think everyone needs to take a step back. Get some juice, have a snack, breathe, snuggle a cat, whatever.

TheGreatDuck

@Beedrill why are you being so rude? I just wish to know how to fix the question I wish to ask?

Beedrill

@TheGreatDuck Word it exactly the way I suggested.

You will get your answer.

Stop being a semantics lawyer.

Thomas Ward

I'mma second @Ash here

Beedrill

It's the same core question.

TheGreatDuck

1:30 AM

@Beedrill that's a different question

and it has been answered quite well.

I just don't want it being removed or closed for no good reason

Beedrill

Official Arqade Mod Message: This conversation is over. Further discussion about this question tonight means chat bans.

2

TheGreatDuck

...

fine whatever

Beedrill

We're not getting anywhere so let's talk about happier thoughts.

user15026

@TheGreatDuck The community feels it was closed for good reason, so far you're not able to convince them otherwise. They've offered advice, you're choosing not to take it. Therefore, we're kinda at an impasse, and everything is getting unnecessarily agitated.

Aequitas

ash gets chat ban

Beedrill

1:32 AM

I literally am incapable of banning mods.

Aequitas

weak

user15026

(Sorry, I am eating my dinner (delicious beans) and watching Letterkenny so I am slow.

Frank

@Beedrill Does signing myself deeper into debt count as a happy thought?

Unionhawk

@Beedrill well technically you can go through a really stupid process of forcing chat user reassociation but

Beedrill

@Frank You get a house out of it, so probably.

Frank

1:33 AM

@Beedrill A pretty good one, too.

user15026

@Frank Yay house, though?

Avery

@Frank nice!

Frank

The only downside is internet is notably slower outside the city.

Like...I only get 10-20% of my current speeds.

Avery

what are your current speeds though?

Dragonrage

all this talk of buying houses and getting married. I just want a job and a girlfriend. is that too much to ask?

Frank

1:35 AM

@Avery 50 Mbps

Unionhawk

@Dragonrage yes

user15026

@Dragonrage It feels really weird that I can't go "I'm not doing those things either! Lets commiserate over cookies!"

user15026

@Frank Still cable/DSL at least though?

Unionhawk

Mainly because I can provide neither of those things

Avery

@Frank I lived at 2mbps for years. 5/10mbps is pretty acceptable

Frank

1:36 AM

@Ash Yeah, one of the options is DSL.

user15026

@Frank other options being?

Frank

The others are satellite and point to point or something.

user15026

@Frank ew no don't do those

user15026

if DSL is an option, trust me it will be more stable than the FPW or satellite

user15026

also cheaper

Avery

1:37 AM

Satellite is... good luck getting on internet on bad weather.

Frank

@Ash No doubt. I'm just exploring my options.

And I have an extreme aversion to Bell, who just bought out our local ISP.

user15026

@Frank Fair enough, I just assume the PtP is like the FPW I do, which is okay if you don't have options, but has its own share of ick (and can't handle super fast speeds most of the time)

user15026

(and trees and terrain and all sorts of things make a difference)

user15026

Satellite is even worse.

user15026

@Frank That I totally understand :)

Dragonrage

1:39 AM

@Unionhawk fine. i guess ill just go to my martial arts class then

Fluttershy

@Ash Well pitter-patter, let's get at 'er.

Frank

Where I'm going is literally just outside, and I can't get decent internet for love or money.

@Ash Its like internet just....dies outside of the city.

user15026

@Fluttershy texas sized 10-4.

user15026

@Frank Yeeeeep.

Avery

How terrible is bell?

Frank

1:41 AM

@Avery During the leadup to the buyout, they were making great promises.

The instant it was approved, they started backtracking.

user15026

They're one of the biggest (if not the biggest?) phone/internet/TV companies, they generally have areas where they're your only DSL etc option so they can kinda dick you around

Frank

They're a typical multinational ISP. Promise the world when it benefits them, until they no longer have to.

Avery

Reminds me of what I read about bell... in ~1960-1980

user15026

@Frank nods

Avery

Bell, bell never changes.

(Big ISPs are the worst, which is why i moved to a smaller one actually. Paying same, getting 10x speed and much more stable connection. And 2000 mins but it's not voip so I don't bother with it)

Frank

1:47 AM

Hence why I'm checking my options.

I'd dearly love something above 5mbps that's reliable.

Avery

Hope you find a good one 👍

user15026

@Frank Fixed point wireless is generally reliable-ish if the company keeps up with maintenance, but it's got its own quirks and issues and stuff

user15026

It's also not going likely offer you more than 6-10 mbps, generally, unless they've put a lot of money into equipment

user15026

It's also going to cost more than DSL more than likely

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