The Bridge - 2013-10-18 (page 6 of 9)

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5:00 PM

@BenBrocka You also have to wait until the bundle closes before you get a download link, apparently.

@TimStone Yeah, I should have posted that when I found out.

My bad.

0

Q: How does really Pokemon Radar works?

After beating the game you can earn something called Pokemon Radar from one of scientist working in prof. Syncamore Labs. This should be used in tall grass and it will do something that will help me find best/strongest pokemon with best stats. But whenever I'm in tall grass and I wanna use it I ...

@Wipqozn Protip: Kill the FOEs on level 17 with poison for a 5k drop.

bah, human resources so annoying

5:15 PM

0

Q: What are Natures? What do they do?

Every pokemon has something called nature. It can increase some stats and make pokemon better overall. What are the natures and what do they give?

I just got an email from the HR rep at the place I had the interview at. They want me to fill out an application, which seems like a complete waste of time, since it lokos like the only reason is to contact my references.

@Wipqozn It's generally a good sign when you're asked to fill out an application after an interview.

@StrixVaria I know.

@Wipqozn But it means they are interested in you.

@JasonBerkan I know.

5:18 PM

@Lazers Totally missed that that was a dupe.

@Wipqozn Doesn't your resume have references?

@fbueckert No, I have "References Available upon request"

Which, at least in nova scotia, is what everyone does.

@Wipqozn So they're requesting them by asking you to fill out an application form.

Seems like a ton of work just for references.

@fbueckert Exactly.

My last job was working at a company that specifically handles recruiting information, and I've never seen a resume with references on it.

Just seems silly.

5:19 PM

I have seen a 26-page resume, though.

@StrixVaria Mine doesn't!

I'm hungry. I'm thinking Jimmy John's BLT.

Restaurants really just need to sell you sticks of bacon.

@Sterno I should try going to a restaurant and just ordering "bacon".

I know they have it back there.

@Sterno Now I want bacon. :(

@StrixVaria Bacon is good, but it's nothing that really works well by itself.

5:22 PM

@fbueckert Bacon is delicious by itself. I don't know what you're talking about.

4

@StrixVaria +1

Bacon needing something to go with it is typically an opinion held by those who demand that their bacon be overly crispy.

Juicy, delicious bacon stands on its own!

2

@Sterno This is how I love my bacon.

I like crispy bacon and I'll still eat it on its own.

You are an enigma wrapped in a riddle wrapped in bacon.

I love crispy bacon. :(

5:25 PM

@Sterno See, this is how I love bacon. Wrap it around anything, it automatically makes it better.

user image

Obligatory bacon turtle

@Sterno The URL leads me to believe that is turkey bacon, so I'm not sure if I can star that.

@Sterno That's disgusting. You're a monster.

user image

Fixed

Whew, thank you.

5:32 PM

There's cheese in there too, in case the bacon wasn't clogging your arteries enough on its own.

@Sterno I'm getting a heart attack just looking that much bacon.

0

Q: How do I keep my old saves for Batman Arkham Asylum?

Due to Microsoft shutting down Games for Windows Live (I wish they did it right after they launched and spared everybody the headache), Batman Arkham Asylum has been retooled for Steamworks. This is great, but Batman Arkham Asylum no longer recognizes my save. How can I take my old saves into the...

pc batman-arkham-asylum

5:44 PM

@fbueckert From excitement.

@Sterno From heart clogging.

-1

Q: What the ''A'' stands for in ARPG ? (Akaneiro: Demon Hunter)

I've got interrested in trying out the game called Akaneiro: Demo hunter and I saw in the description box that it's an ARPG game. So i was wondering what the ''A'' stood for? ...

pc rpg-mo akaneiro

user58869

@Sterno oh dear

This seems borderline spam. The video and everything after it is completely unnecessary. If you're on the dev team, you know what the A stands for, and this is definitely self-promotion. — fbueckert 1 min ago

@fbueckert It is spam.

> Sign up for our closed beta now at angry-red.com

5:46 PM

Definitely spam.

Typing "arpg" into Google returns the answer as the first result.

Which just makes me more convinced it's spam.

I edited it a bit. probably should have removed the video too but meh

But... We don't edit out spam....

Ageing (British English) or aging (American English) is the accumulation of changes in a person over time. Ageing in humans refers to a multidimensional process of physical, psychological, and social change. Some dimensions of ageing grow and expand over time, while others decline. Reaction time, for example, may slow with age, while knowledge of world events and wisdom may expand. Research shows that even late in life, potential exists for physical, mental, and social growth and development. Ageing is an important part of all human societies reflecting the biological changes that occ...

Meh. He deleted his account. Couldn't care less.

He can whine about how we're not welcoming, but it's not our responsibility to welcome astroturfing.

It's his to learn about the community and how we work.

5:53 PM

No, it's not, but you can deny astroturfing without being rude.

Generic "you"

The problem wasn't your comment.

The problem was 3 more people piling on

1) Tell him what's wrong (which you did). 2) Fix the problem (which I did) 3) Smooth things over if he's offended.

We skipped #3

@Fluttershy Or it's the case of a guy who had no idea what was going on, and copy and pasted the "our" line from somewhere else.

@Sterno If he's offended, that's his problem.

@fbueckert And our site's problem

I could've been a bit more tactful, but I definitely wasn't rude at all.

I'm really sick of the attitude that new users can either completely toe the line or GTFO

4

I think your first comment was fine.

@Sterno No. In this one, for spam, I utterly disagree with you.

New users putting a foot wrong is fine.

5:56 PM

Like I said, I think all the piling on afterwards was the problem.

For spam, though, there's no need to pull the punches.

Except we're making the assumption that this guy is a spammer. And I'll admit, he probably is.

@Sterno I think the user had a problem before anyone else chimed in. He was already getting defensive in response to @fbueckert's comment.

But what the hell harm does it do us to give him the benefit of the doubt the first time?

@Sterno I did.

I didn't even do anything but downvote.

He made no effort to edit his question.

5:58 PM

@fbueckert To be fair, he wasn't given much time.

10 whole minutes

@Fluttershy Also to be fair, he decided to delete it rather than edit it.

Plus, I edited it for him in about 5

And got all huffy.

@fbueckert No... It was deleted because of spam flags.

5:59 PM

@Fluttershy Oh. Missed that. Figured he had self-deleted it.

@Sterno 10 minutes isn't all that much time, especially when it's a new user who may not have even known they could edit.

@Fluttershy that was my point

@Sterno Oh. Damn you, Poe!

@Sterno And after edit, I was actually leaving a comment saying it was acceptable.

I would've happily kept that question.

@fbueckert Liar. You wouldn't have been happy about it. =P

6:00 PM

@Fluttershy I even undownvoted! :P

Couldn't do anything about the spam flag, though.

Listen, I don't care much about this particular incident. My problem is more with the attitude that I see a lot. And to be fair, the attitude is mostly confined to chat, not the site itself, so it's usually not something that really matters. I just really get bothered by the "Eh, I can tell this new user is a bad person, good riddance!" attitude.

@fbueckert Why on earth would you undownvote that? O_o It was a terrible question, regardless of validity.

@Fluttershy Still terrible, yes. And I probably would've redownvoted after thinking about it some more. I was focusing more on the spam aspect.

And comments like these never help

gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/136220/…

oops

apparently it won't link anymore because the question was deleted

@Sterno Exactly.

6:02 PM

I wish that question was still open so I could fuss at him too.

Stupid work.

@Sterno The point I'm making is that I gave him a shot. And he decided he'd rather delete it and leave than try to make it acceptable.

Always keeping me down.

@fbueckert I don't think @Sterno is saying you did anything wrong with regards to your comment to that user.

The dogpile was definitely unnecessary.

It doesn't reflect well on the site or its community.

@FAE That I agree with.

I don't think we could've kept him after my first comment regardless, but we definitely didn't need everyone telling him what a terrible question it was.

In fact, I had been in the process of commenting that it was acceptable post edit.

6:06 PM

Even when there's nothing else weird going on, new users don't take immediate downvotes and closure well. I'm not saying we shouldn't downvote and close, but understanding that their first reaction is likely to get defensive/mad rather than "Thank you kind sirs, how can I fix this?" is important. Sure, we'd love for everyone to react like the latter, but that's not reality, and the people in the former category are rather numerous and worth investing in

44 mins ago, by fbueckert

@StrixVaria Bacon is good, but it's nothing that really works well by itself.

wat

I don't even.

@Sterno And if they're willing to engage and fix it, I'm first in line to help them.

Is bacon in Canada not the same as the bacon I get?

I think we're all in agreement that it was handled poorly. I still think it was a lost cause based on how defensive he got after that first comment. Also, kotekzot's a 20k user. He should've known better...

> there are two hard things in computer science: cache invalidation, naming things, and off-by-one errors

6:07 PM

@fbueckert I guess we just have different strategies. I think they need some coaxing. You're all about the tough love.

Heck, I spent tons of time trying to help that that Minecraft software rec question.

@Powerlord har har

I'm ready to talk about bacon again.

3

@Fluttershy I don't think we should write someone off after one initial comment.

@Fluttershy That surprised me. I thought he was one of the super nice we should give new user candy people.

6:08 PM

@FAE That is the point I am doing a very poor job at trying to get across. Tempers cool.

@Powerlord There are 10 kinds of people in the world: Those who understand binary, those who don't, and those that realize this joke is in trinary.

Seriously though, I have a BLT right downstairs in the company fridge. The only thing stopping me from eating it is that I already ate one an hour ago.

@Sterno Some of it's tough love. I've been trying to soften my comments to sound more friendly. If he had been willing to stick around, I'd be the first to help him with it. Even after I realized people vote contrary to me just because it's me.

But, regardless, I have to go for lunch soon.

What should I get for lunch, Bridge?

(And don't say bacon)

@fbueckert Bacon

damn

I was so close to beating you there.

@Sterno Knew that was coming!

6:11 PM

In that case.... ham.

@fbueckert canadian bacon.

@TrentHawkins ...

Remind me to cut you off the internet when I get home.

Because I'll definitely forget if you don't.

So I googled that game and saw this review tagline: Akaneiro: Demon Tone convinces you not to play it Spicy Horse's dungeon-crawler forgets to make clicking things fun.`

@Sterno I think the main problem is when someone starts to get hostile/defensive it results in others more likely to do the same.

@fbueckert forget what?

6:12 PM

@TrentHawkins I dunno.

What were we talking about again?

@FAE I'm just wary of that sort of behavior ever since Scootaloo. :\

@fbueckert bacon, and how you should have a plate of it for lunch.

@Fluttershy Someone else's behavior isn't important though.

@TrentHawkins No, NOT bacon. I remember that much.

@FAE I know it shouldn't be. But it makes me wary of things.

6:13 PM

Otherwise we're just thinking of people who aren't already part of the community as this faceless "other" that's okay to be hostile to if they say one wrong thing at the outset.

How many times have you or me or anyone else here gotten defensive as a first response to something, either online or off? I'm sure we can all list plenty of occurrences.

It makes me a little sad that the answers to this are partial collections of endings

@FAE That's never happened to me. Leave me alone. You don't know me.

I'm willing to undelete that question, if we can get some mod cleanup on the comments.

I think it's fine to leave it deleted.

But other people give us the benefit of the doubt, they accept that we have kneejerk responses sometimes and they let us redeem ourselves in their eyes rather than writing us off as a whole just because we had an emotional kneejerk to something.

6:15 PM

See, see, I got defensive in response to you pointing out that everyone says they get defensive every now and again but I said that has never happened to me even though that's what happened.

I'm so funny.

@Wipqozn Silly turtle, you're not nearly as subtle as you think you are.

@Wipqozn Don't make me link the turtle burger again

@FAE I never said it was good behavior. Just that it was my initial response, and not one I'm overly fond of. I do think, however, that we weren't being hostile toward the user. Those of us in here, I mean.

@Fluttershy Doesn't matter that it wasn't us in here though, even though it wasn't, it's still going to reflect on us.

@Fluttershy No this time, but I'm sure we have in the past. I know I have.

We all try and say we won't do that... until that one time that person makes that one comment that really pushes your buttons and you post without thinking. Or you jump in as the fifth commenter thinking "I bet I'll be able to help when everyone else has failed!"

I know I've done that.

6:29 PM

tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FirstPersonGhost

NO! I started reading TVTropes... can't.... stop....

@Powerlord See you in a week!

> As with Half-Life 2's gravity gun, you use the portal gun to pick up objects, but before you get it Chell seems to pick up things by glaring at them.

@Sterno I'd encourage you to make a meta about this, specifically the "understanding a users first reaction is likely to be..." part.

@Wipqozn I will do that if I can think of a way of doing it in a way that won't just piss everyone off

Because, joking aside, most people's reaction to such a meta would be to be defensive.

Because you're completely right about the writing people off based on one comment attitude. I know I have problems with that attitude.

@Sterno It would be, yes.

6:36 PM

@Wipqozn Do we really need a meta about this every other month that most people end up ignoring anyway?

I'd just be sure not to make it sound like you're suggesting we never downvote/close new users (which is obviously going to piss people off, since that's wrong) or that we should bend over backwards to help a user whose swearing at people (sometimes you just say 'fuck it' and walk away).

@FEichinger It's not every other month.

Every 3 months.

Makes it no better.

Also, I think it is a good thing. Change isn't something that happens over night.

@Wipqozn Yeah, I'd downvote the hell out of that.

We have had metas about this. Regularly. We have refreshed existing metas about this. Regularly. We're still in the same messed-up situation.

6:37 PM

You can't make on meta and expect every person on the site to change.

I'd argue the situation even gets worse, but that could just be down to the site growing.

@fbueckert Yes. I think part of the problem when this gets brought up is some people do either say basically that, or that's exactly how it comes across.

I asked a few friends whether they'd had this happen, then looked up the popularity of their initials/names over time. Based on those numbers, it looks like there must be at least 750,000 people in the US alone who think 'Sure, that's probably my email address' on a regular basis.

^-- Can confirm.

@FEichinger congratulations on your awful choice of email address patterns

@Wipqozn Not because I think we're perfectly fine where we are, but because the implication is that we shouldn't close questions from new users because they're from new users.

6:41 PM

@fbueckert Yeah, exactly.

I think we need to do more to help new users. I fully admit that I can be blunt and that comes off sounding harsh sometimes.

But I don't think it's a one-way street. It's not purely our job to welcome new users and make them proper contributors. It's also their responsibility to adapt and conform to our standards.

@Wipqozn Here, I wrote a meta:

42

Q: Let's be nice to each other

As a moderator, I'm often staring at a list of the most offensive content currently available on the site. I keep seeing certain patterns emerge, and I think these patterns are potentially dangerous. At least once a day, I see a comment chain that looks like: User1: (unconstructive critici...

discussion chat comments

Just ignore that gravatar

@fbueckert I agree.

Which is what I meant by the "eventually just say fuck it" type of thing.

@Wipqozn Which, in this specific case, seems to have been a lost cause.

@fbueckert The question is how to go about doing that in a way that actually creates new users who participate in a positive way, versus people throwing up their hands in disgust and leaving

6:43 PM

and I think is what @Sterno is saying too.

@badp Not awful! I also use that for a pseudonym!

@Sterno And that's what I tried to do here. I spent a good chunk of time trying to help him make it acceptable.

@FEichinger color me unimpressed

We should try to help new users become positive contributors to the site, and part of that involves not writing them off based getting defensive when we tell them their first question to the site is bad. If they continue to be rude and hostile, then yeah, just forget about them. but there's no need to give up on them based on one comment.

Engagement is a two way street. We can try all we like, but the user still needs to be receptive to constructive criticism in order for it to be successful.

6:47 PM

@fbueckert Yes, but we can't expect them to be super engaged and interested in the site the first time they join.

@Wipqozn I'm not saying we have to have a new user conform to our standards right off the bat. If they're willing to stick around, we can work at it until they get it.

I'm not saying we should do everything for them, ro give them a free pass, just that you can't expect a new user to have the same investment in the site as a 10k user.

@fbueckert What @Wipqozn is trying to say, I suppose, is that we can't determine if they're just not willing after, what, three comments?, or if they just don't know - because they simply can't know.

@FEichinger Usually not, no, I agree.

@FEichinger Yeah, exactly.

6:49 PM

A user will get defensive and hostile if their first post is met with criticism, plain and simple.

Most people that jump on the site for the first time just want an answer to their question, so it shouldn't be surprising if they moan and grunt when we tell them that their question isn't acceptable. It needs to be fixed. We don't allow this. Et cetera.

@FEichinger When the last comment we get from them is, "Well you know what, thanks for explaining to me, i do appreciate it. But i'll surely try and delete this account because of how ''welcoming'' the first people were to me. – user56690", after explaining why the question's getting downvoted into oblivion, though, I'm thinking it's a grey area.

Could we have done something better? Undoubtedly.

@fbueckert That reaction, from what I can tell, is the result of being met with even more criticism after the first actual engagement from the user in question.

@fbueckert If you look at it from his POV, and assume he wasn't a spammer, I don't think it's all that surprising he'd get defensive at being accused of being a spammer.

@FEichinger His first comment:

> wow... okay.... my first time here man... chill out i'd say. I was just wondering and by putting the link there people couldve seen the gameplay and tell me more about what the heck the A stood for.... :/

That's fine. Not awesome, but fine.

We didn't really get much from him after that beyond, "Well done welcoming a new user. Bye."

6:53 PM

With that said I think he was a spammer.

I had even pointed out why it was getting hammered.

WHO JUST KISSED WHO JUST KISSED WHO JUST KISSED

THAT'S RIGHT

THEY KISSED

@spugsley @OrigamiRobot and @Fluttershy? Has my fanfic come true?

2

finnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnaaaaaaaaaaaaallllllllllllllyyyyy

Good lord, @spugsley, calm down! :P

6:54 PM

@Wipqozn :o

@Wipqozn It honestly looked like astroturfing. I had been debating whether or not to edit out the useless parts, or just flag as spam and move on.

@spugsley Your lack of denial is proof.

Because either were valid actions.

I was waiting for a response from him.

I have some lawn dude coming to take care of my yard at 4 and I am having anxiety that he is an axe murderer or rapist :/

@fbueckert Yeah, I'm 100% certain it was just spam. To be honest I think his reactions were all part of trying to make us think it was fake.

6:55 PM

AHAHAHAHAHA

HE HAS HER GUM LOLOLOL

@Wipqozn Does flagging a question as spam destroy the user, too? Or is that still something they have to do?

@fbueckert If it's their only post it might. @badp would know.

@fbueckert Typically no

I dunno if there are exceptions

@spugsley Axe murderers are the worst.

I agree it was spam, but also consider that spammers aren't Hitler.

6:56 PM

Sounds like most of what happened is, we edited out the spam aspect, and he decided it wasn't worth the effort to keep the account.

For example, let's say that was a dev of the game. Okay, he's shamelessly self-promoting. We don't want that.

@Sterno You're right. Spammers are worse.

@Sterno Nope, but they're at least 500 milli-Hitlers.

But maybe if we get that across and he sticks around, we now have a game dev answering questions on teh site

Or 5000. I can never remember.

6:57 PM

@fbueckert That would be 5 Hitlers.

@FEichinger They're that bad.

Or maybe this guy was just some PR dude. Whatever. The actual incident doesn't matter, so much as the attitude that even if it's spam, there might be a useful user in there. We can disallow the spam while still trying to cultivate a helpful user.

@Sterno I think part of the problem is not just that he was spamming, but that his question was terrible also.

It was a human spammer, at the very least.

So it's like "this is a terrible question + spam"

6:58 PM

@Wipqozn It was bad, but on-topic.

@Sterno But then there's the probability that he would work in questionable references to his game in 75% of his answers.

James thing about it being a closed beta isn't true. The game is on steam early access

@Sterno I know, but it's like a double whammy.

Yeah. There were a lot of reasons to dislike that question.

It's quite simple: Don't jump to conclusions about a user's motivation, and certainly don't assume the worst all the time.

6:59 PM

@Coronus Eh. Let's not assume that's what he'd be doing.

@FEichinger That's not nearly cynical enough.

We have no idea what he would've done.

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Transcript for

Oct '1318

The Bridge

General Arqade Chat. We tried to leave once, but the door lock...

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