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10:00 PM
I remember some epic rants on Roms
 
@Oak agreed but its the grey area of tutelage that becomes an issue.
Man I loved roms
 
We answer the question and don't touch the topic if we don't want to and get reps and we're all happy.
 
@badp So you want us to attach this giant warning to the top of every homebrew question?
 
And as I said I think they should incourage homebrew! (nintendo I mean)
 
And if we do touch the topic, someone'll flag it and mods will review it.
@Mana So you want us to attach this giant "off-topic" warning instead?
 
10:02 PM
Didn't Jeff even make a comment about legalities
 
@badp I don't want any warning attached. I want a comment posted to the user and the question removed from the site, along with any answers.
 
23 mins ago, by Oak
5
Q: Should we allow links to "abandonware" game sites?

Jeff AtwoodI'm seeing a number of mod flags around links to abandonware sites like: http://www.abandonia.com Should these "grey market" sites be allowed?

 
1
Q: When do special features get unlocked in Gran Turismo 5?

jwaddellI want to find out when special features like damage, better AI, weather effects etc gets unlocked in GT5, but the searches I performed just turned up guesses or rumours. Is there a definitive answer for how GT5 unlocks work?

0
Q: Speed leveling in Killing Floor

thethinmanIn Killing Floor I want to speed level some perks in order to play the higher difficulties. What is a good strategy for quickly leveling perks that gain experience through damage? The perks I'm talking about are Support Specialist, Berserker, Firebug, and Demolitions. Most of mine are at level 2...

 
thanks @Feeds
 
@Mana You'd then have to put an even larger warning sign about homebrew questions to everybody on the site, including those who wouldn't have asked about it otherwise.
 
10:03 PM
I'm not even familiar with the term "abandonware" :/
 
Im going to have some pie! lates
 
@badp Or a meta-topic.
 
@GnomeSlice It's not a real thing. It's just something people think is really old, so they can pirate it.
 
@GnomeSlice Games that cannot be obtained anymore legally because it's not in the public domain and those who do have the rights for distributing the game don't.
 
@GnomeSlice Games that aren't sold anymore.
 
10:03 PM
Alright, maybe it is.
 
@Gnomeslice Games.
 
That doesn't make it right though.
 
Yeah, essentially people believe that since its old the copyright holder is ok with people giving it out for free just so that people can play it.
Most publishers aren't even ok with people selling Used games.
 
I don't think it makes it wrong either though.
 
@ArdaXi There is "real" abondonware in which the developers have forfitted any claim on copyright, but it is comparatively rare
 
10:04 PM
If there is absolutely no way to "legally" get a copy of the game anymore, then that seems rather silly.
 
@sjohnston That's not really 'abandonware' that's just releasing it for free.
 
@Noctrine I think that it's lame for me to be unable to play classic titles just because I wasn't born in time, but then that's just me.
 
@sjohnston Yeah. That's public domain.
 
@GnomeSlice Technically there is, resale shops and all kinds of stuff. No one is making it available.
 
sigh
 
10:05 PM
@badp I think its lame also.
 
@badp You can buy it second hand.
 
this clearly needs a meta-topic
 
@ArdaXi You're assuming that's lawful.
 
@ArdaXi Not public domain, they still control the rights. They just let you play it for free.
 
Homebrew questions, I mean. We're not going to solve it here in chat.
 
10:06 PM
@badp Second-hand is lawful in all cases, people have tried but first sale doctrine precedent prevents legal action on resale.
 
@Noctrine Forfeiting any claim on copyright is releasing it into public domain.
 
Why don't we just settle it with an Ape Fight, like real men?
 
a meta question also gives something a little more concrete and concise to point to as policy
perhaps Jeff will weigh in as well, that would be grand
 
@Noctrine ...you can resale a license?
 
@ArdaXi I didn't say they forefeit the claim to copyright. They usually just make it available to download for free. Rockstar released GTA for free, but they didn't release claim to copyright. If they did anyone would be able to sell it
 
10:06 PM
I can only hope.
 
@badp Licensing is flawed. And has shown to be so repeatedly in most cases.
 
@Noctrine @sjohnston said this:
2 mins ago, by sjohnston
@ArdaXi There is "real" abondonware in which the developers have forfitted any claim on copyright, but it is comparatively rare
Which is what the reply was aimed at.
 
@ArdaXi Ah, I was reading through everything to fast. My bad. Well yeah, that is releasing to the public domain and it is very rare. Id tech is like that though
 
Anyway, let's go back to the original topic: homebrew.
 
@Noctrine Doom wasn't released as public domain.
Well, the engine was, sorta.
 
10:08 PM
@Noctrine um, no, ID GPLs the code and retains rights on the artwork.
 
I only meant the code.
The artwork isn't really the engine is it?
 
GPL and PD are 2 very different things
 
At any rate (L)GPL is still copyrighted; just under a copyleft license
 
Ah, I thought it was PD and not GPL.
 
You can't license what's in the public domain, AFAIK :)
So, back to naming horses funny things in order to embetter your console.
Actually -- what's ITS's take on black hat security?
 
10:11 PM
@badp My take on it has always been. It's of interest to gamers so it would be relevant here. But the console people are usually very anti-homebrew. Just due to the nature of legal stuff I think it is a bad idea to allow any substantial information about it here because the fact of it is you can be sued for anything. The last thing we would want is for someone to bring legal action against Fogcreek for what is made available on the site. There are tons of places to learn about it..
There are tons of places to learn about it on the net, but I don't see why we have to be one of them.
 
0
Q: Is PS3 with Move an alternative to Wii?

DrakeMy girlfriend tried the Wii during holidays and she told me that she liked play sports game. Now I would prefer to buy the PS3 with Move because I think I can use it more. Back to my question, is PS3 with Sony Move an alternative to Wii in this case? Which are the differences technically speaki...

 
6
Q: Should we accept question about making exploit or building malware ?

HoLyVieRThe kind of question I am referring to is a little bit like this one : http://security.stackexchange.com/questions/277/malwares-source-repositories-where Question that are around the subject of "How can I make virus/malware/exploit/etc." are going to be asked. The question is if we want that ki...

 
ITS, as in the ITSec Stack Exchange, @badp?
 
Well, now Grace can settle the discussion with a few well placed daggers ;-)
 
5
A: Should we accept question about making exploit or building malware ?

Graham LeeThe thing is that knowledge of how to build malware can be used by three groups of people: those who want to build malware those who want to defend against malware those who want to find out who's trying to build malware I say we should allow such questions; people can use their own judgement...

 
10:11 PM
@badp I think it's "We don't do blackhat" I remember them asking for a close reason for it.
 
According to the mods, blackhat is discouraged and they've even suggested having a custom close reason for it
 
Blackhat?
 
@Fabian Actually, I came in here to say "What the hejudas did I start by asking for a simple legal check?"
 
@GnomeSlice EVIL!!!!!! thunder crackles
 
10:13 PM
@GraceNote Welcome to Gaming StackExchange! This is not a forum. This is a place to organize mass murders.
2
 
Are all mass-murderers present?
 
@GnomeSlice Finding exploits in software to use them.
 
No, John Rudy never shows up in the room.
 
@GnomeSlice Really questionable stuff that is mostly used by evil, but need-to-know for people doing good to defend against it. Really loaded, like homework questions people have to say "If I help this person, are they going to do something bad with the knowledge"
I guess that's one way that you could justify homebrew, asking how to mod something is just knowledge. But then it's more appropriate for like, SuperUser? Or Electronics? Dunno.
 
It's opposed to White Hat, which is what angels wear to get resistance to Holy damage.
 
10:15 PM
@Noctrine SuperUser migrates to Gaming at the first hint of the word "game" and derivatives. Even if the question actually is only tangentially game related.
 
@badp I guess they are happy to be able to do it to others now :p
 
Doesn't SU rage against all things console and gaming and crush them with the mighty hammer OffTopic?
 
@sjohnston Yes
@Noctrine We don't really have a "mod" policy just because "mod" is too ambiguous a term.
 
And the crushed question then is dumped here ;-)
 
@Noctrine Okay yeah, good point. One sec, I'm gonna go ask how to mod my Wii so Rock Band 2 gives me all the DLC for free, just because I want the knowledge of how to do that.
 
10:16 PM
Modding a console, modding your HUD, and modding a game not only are completely different concepts but even they can mean completely different things in themselves.
 
Out of curiosity, have we had any questions on hardware modding?
 
@Noctrine It's my line of reasoning when I rallied to not ban discussion about online cheating.
@sjohnston Strangely enough, yes.
 
@Grace Hmm, since when do you speak directly? I kinda miss the daggers.
 
1 hour ago, by Grace Note
2
Q: Tracking my Wii Sports Tennis scores

barrycarterWhat's the least obtrusive and most efficient way to track my Wii Tennis scores? I realize I could write down the info I wanted after each game, but that takes time and breaks the rhythm. I know the Wii stores these internally, but the format's encrypted, so there's no way to export the data...

 
@Mana Well when you say it like that its obvious to say no. :p
 
10:17 PM
@ArdaXi Daggers are now only used when I actually need to interject in emergency. Otherwise, I just wait until I can pop in.
 
1 hour ago, I feel like migrating the convo to a new room.
 
Well Badp asked the question, how about flagging it and letting Jeff deal with it :p
 
@GraceNote aww :(
 
@badp There were people feeling uncomfortable with it.
 
A few well-placed daggers can improve any discussion
 
10:18 PM
@GraceNote Rad: unsupported.
 
Or summoning one of the valued associates from the mod room.
 
I'll remove the paragraph in the room description about you in protest.
 
Heh, go ahead. ♪
 
room topic changed to The Bridge: of Gaming's StackExchange™ AlienOverlord AskQuestion™ mothership, charging its lazers for the upcoming elections.
 
@GraceNote I liked them, but they lacked history, or messed up the question they were on.
 
10:19 PM
See what you made me do? A description that fits in just two lines!
 
@badp it's sickening, frankly
 
Aye, they were problematic to track, and sometimes it's easy to miss them. But then again, it's always easy to fail to see me. ♪
 
@badp Its 3 lines for me in the top right.
 
@badp Put one about me in instead.
 
@badp WHY?!
 
10:20 PM
@WillfulWizard time for a bigger monitor?
 
@WillfulWizard The last word starts the fourth line, for me. :P
 
room topic changed to The Bridge: of Gaming's StackExchange™ AlienOverlord AskQuestion™ mothership, charging its lazers for the upcoming elections. The disclaimer about Grace's daggers being used as a workaround for work-safe indirect chat access has been removed in protest, and you didn't read it.
3
 
@sjohnston Nay, I've a second.
 
Four lines for me in the top-right.
 
Fixed.
 
10:20 PM
well, now it's seven.
 
Now it's six lines here
 
8, here
 
I've got 6
 
@badp Way better
 
4.7 here
 
10:21 PM
1
 
@GraceNote How large is your monitor?
 
3.3, noobs
 
MONITOR SIZE COMPARISON PAAAARTY
 
@Noctrine Not that small, but I'm in windowed mode. ♪
 
@badp Add this instead. ˨
 
10:22 PM
This thing's probably like 768 right now.
 
@GraceNote I wish I would do that more. Seems like all the space is wasted when I run what only needs the smallest space as large as possible. I'm not being efficient.
 
@Noctrine The solution is to get a large enough monitor that your windows are the size of other people's monitors.
 
@Noctrine I do the same thing. I can't stand not having Chrome maximized for some reason
 
@Noctrine If God wanted us to be effecient with our screen space, he wouldn't have made gigantic flatscreens so dang cheap.
 
I started off with the fact I always have a text editor open for one reason or another. That's never fullscreen since full-screen Cream is all wargh.
 
10:24 PM
@GraceNote I've never seen the advantage of Cream v. regular gVim
 
@GraceNote I can do that, I just never ever do. Ever.
 
I have a second monitor for all my Vimming needs.
 
I've just been slowly training to use more and more stuff in windows, so that I can spend more time gazing at my wallpaper.
 
I love my wallpaper.
 
10:25 PM
I make my own wallpapers. As such, I end up hating them.
 
When I got my new Quad-core laptop, the first thing I did was go and download like 50 wallpapers.
 
@ArdaXi I was introduced to Cream first. I'm too lazy to switch to a new editor because this one satisfies pretty much everything I need. Except unicode.
 
I can never remember if the screen ration is 16:9 or 16:10 though.
 
@GraceNote Afaik Cream is just a modified gVim
@GnomeSlice Probably 16:10
 
@ArdaXi It's a GUI for Vim, basically. That's all I know it as.
 
10:25 PM
@ArdaXi How do I figure it out?
 
@GraceNote No, gVim is.
 
@GnomeSlice What's your resolution? :-)
That's what gVim looks like.
 
Erm... I don't recall.
 
Cream looks... less Dutch.
2
 
10:26 PM
Hey! What's wrong with Dutch?
 
Wait, I should just divide the width by 16 and the height by 10, yes?
 
@Grace That's also German. Not Dutch. is very insulted
 
Cream afaik is a less brutal port of gVim afaik
 
Despite my heritage I can't actually tell the difference between German and Dutch. I just know that you're Dutch and I can't read what that says.
 
@GraceNote It's german, dutch looks much funnier
 
10:28 PM
 
@badp I was about to ask. What's german about the color (or object) cream. Stupid me thinking about colors.
 
@GraceNote eww, bitmap fonts. Gross!
 
I don't even know what you're talking about anymore. :(
 
Yes, found it.
in Gaming on Meta Stack Overflow Chat, Jul 15 '10 at 9:38, by Jeff Atwood
Wii question is fine with me.. I don't really care about legality unless it's CLEARLY illegal (linking to warez, gimme teh free softwarez, etc)
 
I left it on whatever font it was on when I downloaded it here.
 
10:29 PM
@GnomeSlice vim is a spartan, efficient but complex text editor. gVim is a windowed version of vim. Cream is another.
 
I was about to say. That font looks really headache inducing.
I use Consolas.
 
siiigh
well I guess that's that.
 
I use Microsoft Notepad.
:D
 
Notepad++!
 
You should get Cream. It's less Dutch, even if that gVim isn't Dutch!
 
10:30 PM
I use WenQaunYi Zen Hei Mono.
 
I don't even try to remember the vim shortcuts anymore, i and :wq ought to be enough for everybody
 
Oh we're talking about coding?
 
/me wait's for butterflies.
 
I use Notepad++
 
Is that supposed to be a Quan?
 
10:31 PM
 
@GnomeSlice No, text editing.
 
Also, fun fact, the creator of Vim (Bram Molenaar) is Dutch.
 
Notepad++, vim
 
Also, yes, I write answers to potential Gaming questions before they are asked, so that when someone actually asks them I can post them.
 
He also never included the legality stuff in the faq like he said he would.
 
10:32 PM
@GraceNote no one is surprised
 
@GraceNote I wondered how you could post answers so insanely thought out so fast.
 
@Noctrine Well, the other part is insane typing speed. I used to be a trivia champ. ♪
 
@GraceNote Someone said that about @Tzenes on a question of mine.
 
Erm, that was uncalled for.
 
10:33 PM
@GnomeSlice As it were, I actually did that for the one question of tzenes. The MMT one, in fact.
 
The whole Vim discussion does not belong there.
 
@GraceNote Impressive.
 
(Content advisory: this discussion will now naturally drift in the general direction of lolcats; depends on when @Brant wakes up.)
 
:/
Topic change, get.
 
10:36 PM
So, back to cached answers to homebrew lolcats written in gVim.
 
how about we talk about how to counter sniper in TF2?
 
@CRoss sniping is lame and boring.
 
I spent 20 mins getting headshotted repeatedly last night
 
If all else fails use fire.
 
@badp telling the sniper that does not stop them.
 
10:37 PM
dum de dum let's sit in this spot and have some HOT pixel hunt action
 
Wait, sorry, let me do that right.
> IF ALL ELSE FAILS USE FIRE
 
@badp coughMetroid:TheOtherMcough
 
0
Q: How does depletion work in Die2Nite?

Rasmus FaberHow does depletion work in Die2Nite? Is it a set percentage chance to become depleted each time you search the zone? (Or each time an item is found?) Or is there a set number of items to be found in the zone, and once they are gone it become depleted? This could make a difference when choosing ...

 
@badp s/sniping/TF2/
 
@Feeds Good luck getting an answer, pal.
 
10:39 PM
@badp Sniping is awesome!
 
@ArdaXi everyone's a hater
wait no, it's just Arda ... :-/
 
@CRoss I haven't always been one.
 
Oh, so who thinks we could host like a "Stacker Santa" like thing to boost the reps of us underperformers?
 
I never snipe in FPS games.
Sniper Rifles are put to better use as clubs, In my opinion.
 
I figure, we each pick a game and put it in a hat. We shuffle it a bit, then people draw from the hat to get a game. Play the game, end up with questions to boost your friend's reputation.
 
10:41 PM
@GnomeSlice I used to do it exclusively, especially since when I used to play FPS games I used to only play Objective matches.
 
We'll have to disqualify the top... 5... users, as they already have enough rep.
 
I've hated TF2 since April 2008. (I had to look that up)
@GraceNote I say top 4.
Either that or top 6, @badp almost has as much rep as I
 
@ArdaXi You could just trick @badp into overtaking you as 5th spot.
 
@ArdaXi I've only been playing after that, so I have no idea why
 
@GraceNote I have. I then got voted up.
And up.
@CRoss That's when the classes got updates.
 
10:43 PM
Well, work hard to get him above you, then!
 
All the non-default weapons.
@GraceNote But I want to beat him.
 
shrugs I've never known it another way
 
Well, he'll totally overtake you if he gets a good question asker in the Stacker Santa.
 
Yeah, see, I've been playing since the beta
It was BETTER then.
 
Crepes, 16 years old and you're already a curmudgeonly old-timer? How time flies...
 
10:45 PM
@GraceNote That's 16 years old, thank you very much.
 
Happy belated birthday, then. ♪
 
:)
 
1
Q: How to counter a sniper in TF2?

C. RossWhat are could strategies for countering a dominating sniper? What classes, class combinations, and weapons are effective against snipers?

 
@GraceNote That's what I have been trying! Before I got onto him he was lazily sitting at 6k.
 
I upvoted both of you when you were within 10 rep
Well, when you first matched, I gave Arda a couple question upvotes. Then I gave you a couple.
 
10:48 PM
How cute.
 
I considered seesawing between the two of you, but then Arda did the kitty scheme.
 
kitty scheme?
 
"PLZ TO UPVOTE"
 
@badp I keep a couple extra "Vote when necessary" posts that I like but withhold the vote. Maybe... 2 per user I know. It helps to reach funny numbers.
 
just with some more grace, not to cross people.
Fresh off today.
 
10:50 PM
I have screenshots of 7777 and 9999 for Meta, myself.
 
Also today's.
 
9999 was awesome because it's so much cooler than hitting 10k
Now that is impressive.
 
No, this is impressive:
 
Averages are harder to fix than hard amounts.
(I meant the 666 being impressive, not my 9999)
Isn't that the second time you did that?
 
@GraceNote I actually discovered accidentally.
 
10:52 PM
Wait, no, that had to be the first because that's the Beta theme
It's so weird to realize we've been out of beta for over 3 months
 
First and only. Couldn't have my SO acct catch up with the others.
 
then he opened the sealed envelope, and the paper inside said "2390" gasp
2
 
I have 2,481 on SO, 6,666 on MSO and 7,144 on Gaming
 
so, the more trivial the topic, the better you do
 
1466, 16813, and 3980 myself
 
10:53 PM
(That image is timestamped Mon 13 Sep 2010 08:07:19 PM CEST)
@sjohnston MSO is serious business.
 
I'm proud: top new user for Meta Stack Overflow, 2010. ♪
3
And I started in mid-April, no less. I'm still not sure how exactly I climbed so quickly.
 
@GraceNote That's awesome.
 
claps
 
In terms of total, it also places me in 8th place for overall rep gain in 2010
 
10:55 PM
At risk of being downvoted, I post a silly answer.
 
@GnomeSlice Nice
 
I believe it has some merit though.
 
heh
Nice one @Gnome. I'm impressed.
 
stackexchange.com/leagues The week/month/quarter/year view is amazingly boring during the first week of a new year...
 
I should have taken the time to freehand a dotted line.
That would have given extra credence to my measurements.
 
10:58 PM
@GnomeSlice Nah, I think the normal line actually works better.
 
what question is this?
 
0
A: How to counter a sniper in TF2?

GnomeSliceSticking with the Pyro is a pretty safe bet, as he is the shortest. Note that yes, the Engineer and Demoman both keep below the white line, but neither of them are standing perfectly straight Happy Hunkering!

 
@GnomeSlice You risk a kick sir ...
;-)
 
The Pyro is a woman?
 
that's been the joke for a long time
 
10:59 PM
Aha.
 
@CRoss O_o
 

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