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09:04
Happy new year ! May this year be filmic ! :)
09:37
@troy_s Great info page, the font is too small on my screen but perhaps that's just me. Expect some windows user questions about the export envvar command though ;)
@troy_s and the progression between contrasts is much better, great :)
 
5 hours later…
14:15
@troy_s hi there :) Best Wishes !! Is this youtube.com/… better ? Sorry for the delay, I hope you can still use it. I will make the JPEGs if this fire is ok for you
 
3 hours later…
17:16
@OldMan It is all good thanks!
 
1 hour later…
18:33
@OldMan I have question for you: Your renders are very clean, how are you dealing with fireflies?
 
1 hour later…
20:01
@troy_s (or others) If a printing company has, and is willing to give me ICC profile files for "soft proofing," will those profiles be helpful in printing? What would I even do with such a file? Specifically, I'm looking at these guys: finerworks.com/info/icc-icm-color-profiles.aspx
@Matt In short "Absolutely mandatory"
2
@Matt Essentially what ICCs were designed specifically for is graphic arts / design due to printing.
@Matt So in essence an ICC is a Rosetta Stone for the specific printer at a location, using the specific inks, with the precise paper type.
They print out hundreds of swatches, measure the results using absolute colour science and create a transformation Rosetta Stone. That is what ends up in the ICC.
@Matt So having the ICC ends up being effectively the "destination colour space" if you will; you work in reference (an ICC in graphic printing applications typically) and then soft proof against the destination ICC. What you will see is a lower contrast estimation as to how it would look printed.
@Matt Typically you would want to choose an acceptable rendering intent that conveys the work best, as the gamut and contrast will be lacking. Selecting "Black Point Compensation" is very wise frequently, and Perceptual intents (specifically Argyll's) may help if you are delivering work from a much wider gamut.
@Matt Relative colorimetric is probably an ideal entry / starting point.
20:37
I'm still not sure I understand. Is the ICC file something that I'd use to convert my image, or something that I'd use to compare my results to?
Will the ICC let me see an estimation of what my image will look like printed? I get the idea of taking into account the specific printer, ink, and paper... I'm just not sure what to do with the file itself...
21:11
@Matt Both.
@Matt Yes. See "Proofing"
@Matt Be sure to tag my handle otherwise I don't get notifications.
@Matt Ultimately it will depend on what the printer requests. For commercial printing they typically expect a PDF 1.4 wrapper with the properly converted ICC CMYK encode.
@Matt Other situations might just want an image tagged appropriately with the encoded format colourspace ICC.
21:50
@troy_s Cool, I'll take a look at trying that out when I get home, and let you know how it goes. Thanks!
Gez
Gez
@Matt: Hi.
Whether it is convert or soft-proof depends on your workflow and the recommended workflow by your printer.
Using soft proofing you can do you creative work in your reference colourspace and check how the conversion would affect your artwork's color without doing an actual conversion.
They are offering them for soft-proof.
Gez
Gez
It's like an on-screen simulation.
oh cool!
Is that something Photoshop would use the ICC to do?
Gez
Gez
Ok. Then it means that you do your creative work in your RGB space of choice freely
When you're done (or during the process) you can check with their icc how it will look when printed.
The profile is the same they will use for the conversion, but since they gave it to you for softproofing, it means that they want you to send RGB and they will take care of producing the CMYK separations.
Exactly.
21:55
Oh, that makes sense.
Gez
Gez
softproofing is useful because there are a numbe of colours of your usual RGB gamut (sRGB or AdobeRGB usually) that exceed the color latitude a CMYK printer can produce.
Greens, cyans, orange and blue shades are specially problematic.
So if you don't soft proof, you could end up using a colour in your artwork that is not printable
And have a nasty surprise when you get your prints.
Soft proofing is a way to prevent that. You actually see how the gamut mapping to the target colourspace using different intents will affect your artwork, so you can make timely choices about saturation, hue and contrast in order to get the most of your prints.
Yeah, that makes sense. I just wasn't sure how to actually use the ICC Profile. Thanks!
Gez
Gez
Soft proofing is like some magic glasses that let you see how print will screw your beautiful and saturated RGB :-p
Lol, nice
Gez
Gez
How to use it is quite simple: you just load the ICC and use it for soft proofing. Let me open PS and tell you exactly where.
22:02
Only trouble is, I don't have PS :-(
GIMP?
Gez
Gez
Oh.
ooh!! They have a video on their website about how to do it!
Gez
Gez
Well, GIMP has some softproofing
Don't trust it with your life.
Lol, sure
Gez
Gez
Go to the preferences, color management, load the CMYK profile they gave you
22:03
got it.
Gez
Gez
Then switch the first dropdown to softproofing
You can switch between managed screen and print softproofing.
(I don't remember how it's labeled in english, I had mine in spanish)
Lol, those sound familiar, so I'm sure I'll be able to find them from that description
Gez
Gez
Another way to do softproofing in GIMP (and maybe better than the preferences) is using the view filters.
There's a softproofing option there too that works better since it has BPC separated.
(Black Point Compensation)
Display filters I think.
Yes
Remember. Use this as a hint, don't expect high accuracy from GIMP.
Good to know
Gez
Gez
This plugin is quite good, it provides better softproofing than GIMP's default registry.gimp.org/node/24944
22:08
sweet!
Gez
Gez
What image format are you going to use for your deliverables?
If it's a raster image, TIFF is the most appropriate format for the print industry.
If it's vectors, PDF is the right choice.
It's a raster image. I hadn't decided which format to use. I typically use PNG, but I recently heard that's a bad idea... Not sure why, or how much difference it actually makes, though...
@troy_s ok, then I will upload the JPEGs tomorrow. Sorry, I have some construction work going on at my home.
Gez
Gez
Even though a flattened (no transparency) PNG wouldn't be a problem, it's not a format designed for the print industry. TIFF on the other hand is a standard format in the industry. Both allow non-destructive compression, but tiff won't give you any surprise. It will play well with every RIP and design software out there.
good to know!
22:17
@cegaton about the fireflies. I am doing nothing special. I run these simulations for 360 frames at 24fps. And 200 samples per frame. That's all, as far as I know. I am planning a whole series of simulations as you advised to learn the effects of all kind of "settings"
Gez
Gez
Hi @OldMan
Lovely fire simulations. The last one is particularly good.
@Gez hi
Gez
Gez
What intensity are you using for the emission?
most important difference is the color ramp i used in the smoke domain material
Gez
Gez
I was wondering if there's some record somewhere of real world values for flames in terms of colour temperature and emission.
Yes, but do you have information about how much energy a fire actually produces?
22:20
no
Gez
Gez
emission shaders are expressed in watts per square meter iirc.
So how much that fire lights the scene depends directly on its intensity and size, and using real wold values sounds like a good idea.
moment
Gez
Gez
I tried to find information about that without success
if you like I can upload all my blend files to google drive and make sure the name of the blend file and the youtube movie correspond
I can also do a bit of documentation of the simulation series I am doing
most of it is trial and error
but I use the filmic looks of @troy_s ...probably that hels
helps
would that be an idea ?
@gez there is set of voxel attributes (flame, density, color, heat, velocity) that you can use for construction your domain material and I plan a series of tests. how these attributes help in making a certain fire
Gez
Gez
@OldMan No, don't worry. I'm just trying to figure out the right way to do physically correct fire in terms of scene light contribution
If the intensity is right, then the view transform will do its magic alone.
But it's rather an open question, trying to figure it out.
Not that I'm doing fire right now or something. Just want to learn :-)
22:31
this is the material setup
@gez I will make a google drive folder and will post. I learn extremely much from the people here. Would be nice if other could use my stuff for a change
@cegaton @troy_s as I said to @gez I will make my work available. Would be nice if someone can benefit from that or make useful comments :)
I will keep you posted
Gez
Gez
Cool
Thank you!

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