I spy with my little eye, a benevolent overlord.

Congrats @Shog9. Glad I get to say it directly. At least as much as chat is.

@JasonSalaz Heh, thanks man

we'll get started in about 35 minutes

\o/ CHAT CAST Wait, no. TOWN HALL.

hi

Who took popcorns?

@WheatWilliams if only I could :)

ooh popcorn sounds really tasty actually.

Should not the starred posts be cleaned up? :)

Hi

good point

Now it's better. :)

Popcorns for everybody! \o/

salad for me

sucks to be shog.

is good salad

fair enough

granted, would be better if I had exotic Indian spices to put in it, but...

oh, we're sharing what we're eating? homemade chicken nuggets (:

mmm... chick'n!

:o noms on popcorn

@RebeccaChernoff That's awfully nice of you to share your homemade chicken nuggets.

@Shog9 Do you want lettuce, romanine, with Italian dressing, with just vinegar…

basil vinegar, olive oil, red lettuce, spinach, tomatoes and cucumbers for me.

@TimStone heh, I actually did make a big batch of them. Figured it was food for tomorrow too. >_<

Good call!

@Shog9 I will leave out the cucumbers, for me.

mmm... more cucumbers for me

Hah, Oreos here, dinner was a bit ago.

Five Guys is on its way to me as I type this.

apple crisp is in the oven

I wish I could have waffles, pancakes, or English muffins.

It would be early breakfast.

why can't you?

breakfast sounds delicious right now. So does salad.

Mmmmmm, Salad

@Shog9 Because those are all things I cannot find in Italy. I got bagels, but they are not like the NY bagels.

Remind me where you live, Wheat?

I miss the times I could eat them on Long Island.

@JasonSalaz i somehow conflated the messages to "mmm, breakfast salad"

@Aarthi also delicious!

@kiamlaluno can you find flour, eggs, milk/yogurt, yeast/baking soda, oil/butter?

@Shog9 That means work. :)

@kiamlaluno less work than swimming to NY...

@kiamlaluno I applaud your laziness

I could not eat those; they reminds me too much of a person. :|

@Shog9 Well, that is true. But if I swim to NY, they can possibly put me in the Guiness' book. :)

@kiamlaluno "Dripping wet man who ate the most bagels in a single sitting"

@kiamlaluno Notoreity + all the bagels. Woot!

Si, senor! :D

\o/

Ok, I am convinced. BRB: I am going to start the swimming part.

Plus, it would be seen as a declaration of love. I win thrice!

see you in 8 months!

@Aarthi That is without my Superman suit. With that, I take 2 months.

nice.

Is that like Terry's Batman suit?

And yes, I replaced the yellow belt with a blue one.

nanotech to make you stronger more resilient, etc

hahaha

The sharper/nerdier members of our audience will note that yes, I made a Batman Beyond reference.

@TimStone Do you still make the digests, or do you make rchern do it?

Mrozek finally decides to fly his Apple colors

Thinking of that, I will just use baby oil: It helps to slide on the water.

Wait, what room is this?

@MichaelMrozek I'm going to give you bonus points for suggesting I could be calling the shots...but no, I still do most of them (although she posts a lot of them since the rate limiting is painful)

@MichaelMrozek I dunno, but I like where it's heading....

@TimStone Do you still use that userscript to format them, or have you come up with a better way?

It could be pretty easy if SEChat had an API. :D!

@MichaelMrozek Does it count if the better way is still stuck in my head? At the moment, still the userscript, although I use some tricks to speed things up.

@JasonSalaz Well, they don't need to be live; you could pull the public transcript and just process it

@MichaelMrozek True. But don't you love JSON so much more than HTML?

well formed objects with lots and lots of data.

Well, I love jQuery, because I'm an SO user

I'll take that as a yes.

an event is starting in 5 minutes!

NO WAY!

Good thing chat was here to remind us

YA OWLY!

@Daniel 4 minutes...

I am ready! Ask me all the questions you want.

Oh wait, I am not a candidate.

WHAT, is your name?

WHAT, is your favorite color?

WHAT, would Siri say about your accent?

yay! hi Daniel.

WAT, magpie

Alberto, blue, "I am sorry, I don't understand a damn thing you say."

you may pass

Yay! \o/

I actually had a unique response today: "Ok, I give up, could you try again?"

I was walking out of Wifi range when that happened.

Did bmike say he'd be present?

@bmike Ping?

HI!

Hi Rebecca!

Ok folks, remember the format: ask your questions to candidates in bold, star the ones you like, answer the ones you can (if you're a candidate):

Welcome to the Apple Stack Exchange Town Hall Chat

what tiny thing on Apple.SE makes you smile or has caught you off guard?

We're just here to get to know the candidates and ask questions regarding the candidates views on moderation that may help in voting.

A few notes about the format:

The format is open, feel free to ask your question(s) unprompted, however please be mindful of whether or not candidates have answered the previous questions so that they don't get behind and start missing questions. Other than that, feel free to jump in.

Candidates, please use the reply feature so that questions and their answers are linked together. (Hover your mouse over the left of the message, click the down arrow, click reply)

^^ if you don't, @TimStone will come after you

When a question is asked, I'll star it - please star it yourself also to help! Please save stars for the questions so that candidates can refer to the star list to make sure they haven't missed a question.

We will be creating a digest version of the town hall chat after it is completed. This digest will take the form of a question on meta, containing all the questions asked as well as their answers for easier reading.

There's a system message up on the site, so we may get some stragglers joining us.

reading fast? (:

The candidates I see here are: @Daniel, @WheatWilliams, @jmlumpkin, @JasonSalaz, @bmike, and @Moshe

With that, I think I've got all my initial messages, so I open the floor to y'all. Who has a question to start us off? (:

Was @Shog9's an honest question?

@Shog9 appears to be very prepared

@JasonSalaz It is if you want to answer it

@Shog9 Makes me smile: When it's called Ask Different.

On a more serious note, How much experience do you currently have using the user-moderator tools on Ask Different?

@Shog9 I really like how the discussion can get into the tiny things about a piece of software - the SO/SE way of running a site has really found a great community here.

Sorry, nearly forgot about this!

Courtesy of @Nathan: What is the first thing you would do once elected? (It can be one particular thing or a general goal)

@Shog9 I have been using both the flagging feature and editor as often as I can to correct things. On both Ask Different and SO mostly.

@Shog9 I have no experience on AskDifferent, but plenty on StackOverflow.

@Moshe Why none on AD?

@Shog9 The community, honestly. Im amazed at how spread out the knowledge is, in a very good way. As being a long time Mac user, I always am learning new things.

Speaking of moderating as a user:

Usually moderator candidates have spent a lot of time flagging problems as a user before switching roles and handling those flags as a moderator, but in this election quite a few users have very low flag counts. Why would you want to be a moderator if you haven't been interested in flagging before now?

@Shog9 I'm don't spend enough time on AD to moderate or to have enough rep for the tools. To be honest, I've slacked on AD and I plan to shift my focus from SO to AD.

@Shog9 Hard to quantify. But I've touched on tag wikis (creating and voting), I have edited plenty of questions/answers before 2K, and have since graduated to having my edits accepted automatically, I have approved numerous edits, and used the 'review' tool at large. I've been part of plenty of question closures (though no reopens, to the best of my knowledge). And... there's more? Flagging... yep, I think I've touched every user mod tool at least once.

@Shog9 To build on the promptest of answers by @JasonSalaz, yes, Ask Different has a distinct culture. We have our own name, sometimes acknowledged by the system, sometimes not. We have our own traditions about Community Wiki questions. We have a podcast, and a chat regulars, and a distinct community.

@Shog9 I'm quite comfortable working with the existing moderators and have been lucky to have earned the trusted user - so I've been reviewing / flagging / approving (and rejecting) edit suggestions by lower rep users for some time now here.

@RebeccaChernoff Really try to learn the new moderator tools so I know what I am using :)

Ack, too fast. I'm already missing questions!

@MichaelMrozek Again, I've been more active on SO than any other site. My reason for this is probably because I've been a member there for over 2 years vs much less everywhere else.

Let's pause and let @Daniel (and I catch up for a sec...)

@Daniel That's why we star and bold them :)

@Shog9 I'd really hope that any newly elected moderators , if they do want to make changes, can work within the existing culture and with the current moderators.

@RebeccaChernoff - I'm here.

@WheatWilliams Jason hasn't answered my question yet, so probably you mean @Shog9

@Daniel I'm game for that. :-)

@RebeccaChernoff I feel that I've already been headed in the correct direction. There is an encompassing goal right now to breathe new life back into the blog, and I intend to provide more content in that direction. Not to mention doing my best to continue content-wise on the site, the podcast, and whatever else comes our way.

@MichaelMrozek I have been interested in flagging, but in the case of Ask Different, usually I have so few to flag (versus SO, where I have found many).

@RebeccaChernoff Actually, I'm agitating to see if there is consensus to change the FAQ a bit.

@RebeccaChernoff The first thing I'd do is listen. Listen to the current mods. Listen to other users. Listen to folks from other SE sites. Learn how the job is done well. And then I'd do everything in my power to make our birthday answerathon actually happen, albeit after the birthday is past.

As a moderator I would expect to help guide this and keep the questions on scope.

What is the main problem (including problems on how users use the site) that you actually see in the site you would be moderating, if you are elected moderator?

@MichaelMrozek I believe I'm second in flags only to Daniel (at least with regard to the candidates), we've both been very proactive in identifying and working on issues as they come by. Sometimes no action is able to be taken on the flag, sometimes there's merely discussion in the chat room, but this is all the correct process in my opinion.

@bmike you know where I stand on that. I wasn't originally on board with @bmike's proposal, but he's convinced me, and I want to help with that.

@bmike Answer: Then my App Stores proposal is @moot. :P

@WheatWilliams Was this a serious answer? I thought you were going to revise it; you have 16 helpful flags. Not as low as some people, but other candidates have hundreds. I was looking for why there's such a discrepancy

@kiamlaluno I know that there has been a low rep problem for a while. Perhaps there's been some improvement, but that's something that might be looked into.

@MichaelMrozek I'm a big flagger and voter on the site - and I would hope that all the new moderators have spent some time here both flagging and down voting questions. It's nice to see what sort of questions/answers need some help or guidance and which ones instead should be closed for an edit or potentially be deleted.

waves at @mootinator

@bmike is obviously the most qualified. I see only two other spots available. ;-)

;P

Courtesy of @Nathan: In one sentence, what is a moderator’s job?

@RebeccaChernoff A moderator's job is to lurk, take responsibility for making hard decisions regarding edge cases, and what @WheatWilliams said (below).

@kiamlaluno We already see an unfortunate swath of low quality content due to our inevitable bump in reception after the advertising that has been done, and our gradual increase into higher Google rankings. The problems I forsee are no different than most of the SE sites, or active moderation in general. Adequately managing content and users (but mostly content) in a meaningful way.

@MichaelMrozek I'm at 234 helpful flags, and handled 84 suggested edits. I've voted 1779 times. As far as flags go, that's the one area where I've done more than even our superstar bmike.

@RebeccaChernoff "CLEANUP, ISLE 4", except it's not just one person's effort.

@kiamlaluno I can't pinpoint a 'main problem' with the moderation of Ask Different, other than the community seems to continue to grow, and therefore more moderation will be required. I also have noticed that some of the users have very 'frantic' questions, that are hard to understand. I would hope to help convert those into actual questions, to get that user help

@RebeccaChernoff A moderator is a safe keeper of the site. Primarily it's to handle the rare instance where someone is trying to disrupt or harm the signal to noise ratio.

If I might interject, I'd say that probably the most important part of being a good moderator is communicating with your fellow moderators

@KyleCronin Well said. I've relied on you and nathan to guide me as I learned what to flag, what to edit and what to improve.

@kiamlaluno I think our main problems are related to participation rates that are too low. We need more voting. We need more answering. That isn't the moderator's job, per se, but it is the job of the community, and moderators play a key role in guiding the community. I'd like to see our birthday answerathon address both of these issues.

@RebeccaChernoff I feel that the moderators job is to keep the community on topic and easy to use for everyone. To assist users and make decisions for the community.

@Moshe Not for certain - if this site's consensus is to keep the FAQ alone - your proposal might be the best alternative. ;-)

@Daniel I would really like to see this more too.

A diamond will be attached to everything you say and have said in the past, including questions, answers and comments. Everything you will do will be seen under a different light. How do you feel about that?

@kiamlaluno The only problem I see is we've got a lot of work for two moderators. I think we have only to season in this year's additions to have lots of room for growth.

@bmike I'm just saying that if your change were approved then my proposal is moot.

Epiphany: I should design a program language that has an if...else construct.

Wait... That's Pascal and everything since.

Do you think that participating on Meta Stack Overflow helps with being a better moderator? What is your participation on Meta Stack Overflow?

@MichaelMrozek I am fine with this. I use the SE network of sites for both professional and personal use, and thats why I use my real name as well.

@MichaelMrozek It's mildly unnerving. I'm sure I've done something that would cast me as less than graceful/courteous. Everyone has bad days, and it's just unfortunate when they "go public" with it. (Or bring it with them into the public.) It was a big deal to me to start using my actual name instead of my nickname, doubly so considering my very very distinct avatar/usericon is now completely associated with my identity. But I did it, it's here, I stand by it.

@RebeccaChernoff The team of moderators needs to handle any disruptions to the site (which have been blessedly uncommon), do basic janitorial work handling flags, reclassifying answers-that-are-really-comments, etc. A moderator's job is to be a good member of that team. That means communication, presence, regular appearances on the site, and making sure that across the team, issues are handled promptly before they escalate.

@kiamlaluno My participation is very low on meta right now, but I would like to change that. I have been wanting to give back more, and thats a great place to do some work at as well. To answer the first part of the question, I think it does help. Communication is always great :)

What activities in a user's history on the site do you think best demonstrate that someone is qualified to be a moderator?

@MichaelMrozek I'm hoping to find out how it feels, but I've been participating in online (permanent) discussions since the late 80's and have a good internal pause whenever I might feel I need to let loose or lose my cool. Having that diamond would be a reminder to pass the things I say through a second check since I would be speaking in an official role as a moderator. I don't think much would change in my participation here.

@MichaelMrozek I'm careful about what I say anyway. I just need to slow down a but before clicking on that delete button, that's all.

@WheatWilliams Stack Overflow, Programmers, Gaming, and Super User. I also visit Photography, UX, and a few others as well.

@kiamlaluno I'm active on the Meta Tavern, sometimes on Meta proper.

@WheatWilliams OK, speak qualitatively, then. What traits would you look for a person demonstrating if you wanted them to be moderator?

A user asks an off-topic question and you promptly close it as such. Then the user begins downvoting a bunch of your posts, posting less-than-helpful comments on some of them, and generally being obnoxious about the whole thing. What will you do (if anything) to deal with this user?

@kiamlaluno It's great to do if you can participate on MSO considering what a high traffic center it is. My participation is particularly low except for a few 'hot button' topics that are not just confined to Ask Different. I feel that MSO needs to become Meta Stack Exchange, a true network-wide meta, and MSO should be Stack Overflow specific. Participating there helps, though not required.

@WheatWilliams StackOverflow, Meta SO, Judaism.Stackexchange. I've been active on SU and Programmers.SE as well.

@kiamlaluno Yes - this actually is a critical aspect to the site. By having a place to ask about policy, bugs, gray areas - the main site is kept clean. A clean and focused site tends to run itself better as people don't like to throw that first piece of trash on a beautiful lawn.

Meta also is where I learn from others - what is the scope - how do you like to handle edits for grammar, etc... It builds consensus outside the main channel of information here.

@Daniel An absence of low quality posts is a good sign. Good edits, tagging are also symptoms of a good moderator. Some people even have a great repertoire of answers to go with that. (erherhm @bmike) :-)

@MichaelMrozek I'm comfortable with that. I've flagged, voted to close, commented, and done a lot of other things that I knew would be judged by the people involved. Moderator isn't a change in nature, just degree. All active participants on the site are in the spotlight here.

@Daniel While scores/metrics are one way, but also the entire audit of their actual history, from answers, flags, edits, etc. I also think the way they communicate with users and others is a big deal, because if they can not communicate, it makes that task harder

@GeorgeEdison The user must be dealt with, because they won't stop at a single mod who they disagree with, but not by myself. I'd pass it to another mod. We've seen this on Meta.SO, where people were abusing the system and the issue was dealt with by someone other than the victim of the abuse.

@WheatWilliams Regularly? No others. I visit sites that are relevant to topics that I may be interested in, but I can't honestly say I'm nearly as active on any site besides Ask Different. I don't visit any other site more than once a week at best.

Wheat, note that you should answer your own question.

@WheatWilliams I'm active on Ask Different. I read meta.stackoverflow, but I don't post there.

Courtesy of @Nathan: How would you deal with a user who repeatedly provided answers that were low quality (but not spam)?

@WheatWilliams Yes, moderators can contact users and suspend them.

@WheatWilliams SuperUser and The Great Outdoors are my most likely hangouts. I learn a ton from SO but don't answer except for in rare cases.

@WheatWilliams Mods can send messages, as well as ban

@Daniel Consistent improvement, in any manner. Not just rep, not just badges, not just flags. The definitive proof is invariably their ability to ask/answer/manage Questions and Answers appropriately, everything else (rep/badge/flag count) is just further proof.

@kiamlaluno I can't speak from experience, because while I am quite active on meta.Ask Different, I have read only experience with MSO. I do find that reading MSO is very helpful to understanding how the SE engine works, and would expect that a moderator on AD would have to be involved on meta.AD

@RebeccaChernoff I'd give them a little encouragement via a message, explaining what they were doing wrong. Point them to the FAQ, and/or offer a little explanation of my own. New users need explanation and encouragement. On StackOverflow, I've commented countless times "welcome, here's the FAQ. Choose a username and make yourself comfortable." It's what grows the sites - an encouraging and welcoming community.

@GeorgeEdison This is a hard question, but a task of the moderators. I would really talk to some of the other moderators before taking any action. Use this input, and previous examples, etc, to make a decision.

@jmlumpkin It is unfortunate, but such a scenario has happened before.

@GeorgeEdison I actually don't know what rules if any are in place for this situation, so currently I don't want to answer something so specifically that is likely already described by SE. At a high level: First step is contact them, second step is subject to the severity of the issue.

@Daniel I'm voting for the people I see helping others learn in a gentle and positive light. Especially there are three candidates I've seen step in when a normal user was a bit short and help the situation out with a great edit or a counterpoint.

@GeorgeEdison Never act out of annoyance. Talk to other moderators first. Be fair, be kind, give users the benefit of the doubt, but if there is a consensus among the moderators that someone is damaging the site and acting maliciously, use the appropriate tools (warning, account suspension, etc) to prevent the user from damaging our community

Ask Different has a reputation for liking "soft" questions that would generally be closed on other sites. Do you agree? Is this a good thing? Is it something you'd want to change as a mod?

as a footnote w/r/t the contact/ban feature, it's something that I've never used on Ask Different, and it's only ever been used once on the site

so it's pretty rare that you'll need to use it, but it's good to know about

@RebeccaChernoff I would contact the user to see if I could help. Many of the low quality questions I have looked at before were really hard to understand due to language barriers or lack of details. If the user continues, I would usually just continue to ask for more details if they are legit questions.

@MichaelMrozek If it aint broke, don't fix it. It's not broke. I personally never like the cut and dry wholesale closing on SO, of questions that didn't necessarily fit. I see the reason for it, but don't agree. I think being "soft" adds personality to AD.

@GeorgeEdison Oh - that's easy. The automated scripts to detect pattern voting will clear most up, but they can down vote me till the cows come home. As long as they aren't defacing the site - I'd let the other mods know what's up and we all can watch it. I'd get consensus if it's better for me to handle it directly or if having another mod also comment will make the OP realize they are taking it personally.

@RebeccaChernoff The response to this doesn't change when you're a mod. Especially considering mods are not judges of content. (Quality, yes, to an extent. Correctness/Content, no.) In the past, my action has been to edit if possible, comment always, and NOT "downvote and move on". This won't change.

I'd also reach out for confirmation I was being fair - since being a mod does have an aspect of absoluteness - it's nice to know others are watching and helping us.

@GeorgeEdison sad to hear. Hopefully there is a decision made by the community (or just the mods) on the 'correct' way to handle this

@RebeccaChernoff In my experience, comments combined with constructive edits can be very helpful. Some people learn and improve a lot. But I agree with @JasonSalaz that this isn't a mod issue; most of us have been doing this all along. It's a community issue.

@MichaelMrozek Also, if it's part of the "Googlable Stackexchange database", no reason to close unless there's a strong reason to do so.

You see a user is reported for suspicious voting pattern for giving 75% of the votes to the same user. Do you think there is something that must be done, even if the votes given to that user are 40?

@RebeccaChernoff Again - voting and editing are good tools for minor issues. In general, it's nice to find a really awesome answer and provide that - then the low quality answers are clearly there. When they cross the line to spamming - that's when the mod tools can be used to shape or protect the site for honest attempts to participate.

@kiamlaluno What do you mean by "even if the votes given to that user are 40"?

@MichaelMrozek Anyone who knows me knows that I love CWs, within reason. I love the "Tiny Things" questions for iOS 5 and Lion, I curate the iOS 5 CW heavily, and pitch in on others. There are some that didn't/don't deserve to survive ("What would make Safari perfect" and "Terminal Tips/Tricks in Mac OS X", notably). Case-by-case basis. Quality and community (both users and mods) decision as needed.

@MichaelMrozek Could you be more specific about what other sites prefer harder questions?

@JasonSalaz Agreed.

@bmike All of them? SE in general

I hear you can crack walnuts on U&L's questions

@Moshe Is 40 a number enough of votes for doing anything?

@Shog9 lol. I prefer to crack things on my neighborhood friendly unicorn.

@MichaelMrozek I agree that Ask Different does have a bit softer questions, but I don't think its a bad thing. I feel that if the question can have a valid answer, and stay mostly on topic, it is fine. I wouldn't want to change this that much. And I agree with others that on SO, I really don't like the cut and dry or you are wrong feeling there. It seems even worse on programers.se

@MichaelMrozek Simple - the site belongs to the users. Apple users are as a class less likely to be computer scientists or linux admins, or super users or heaven forbid programmers.

@MichaelMrozek I'm not out to dramatically change the site. But yes, I'd like to see slightly fewer "What about magpies makes you smile?" questions, recognizing that some of our Community Wiki questions have produces some true gems of answer sets. Don't eliminate our "softness" -- we're friendlier than some sites, and that's not bad. But I am cautious that we don't go too much further town that road.

@MichaelMrozek I assume this is a CW question at least, re-reading it it might not be. And I actually have a distinct answer. Apple is a company, an ecosystem, it's "level of skill" ranges from "learning to right click", to "programming an app" (and really, much harder). We're "softer" on some questions because it's relevant to the community. That probably shouldn't change. Ask Different is unlike almost all of the rest of Stack Exchange, scope/content-wise.

And what @bmike just said, too.

The barrier to entry for an iPod touch is can you walk - so we do have users with entry level questions. I think for the volume the site gets, these softer questions generally get low votes and also have yielded some outstanding users.

@bmike I actually completely disagree with that, but let's take a note and save it for a podcast :).

@bmike I have seen it a lot on Stack Overflow

Did we get clarification on what "votes given to that user are 40" meant?

@JasonSalaz Your call - I feel we need to curate great questions that solve problems people face within the scope

@bmike I disagree with the 'class / less likely' part, that is. I don't disagree with the "site belongs to the users" part. Sorry :).

I do want to discuss it elsewhere, on a better dedicated medium.

@kiamlaluno It is my understanding that there is some algorithmic voter fraud detection, so I'd be mostly on the lookout for activity that is disrupting the community (i.e. malicious comments, etc.) and let the engine do what it does best in terms of watching votes. I was told earlier that mods couldn't see how users voted. Is that not true?

Courtesy of @Nathan: In what ways has Ask Different served as a resource for you personally?

@kiamlaluno 40 votes is potentially 200 rep, methinks. That's the difference between many of the basic privileges. That being said if it's just a few votes, it's not a big deal. I'd say, case by case. In many cases, the immune system should handle it.

@kiamlaluno Do moderators get to see who voted on a certain question? I don't understand how I'd know who voted for what in a sure manner.

@Daniel That is valid for the single votes; the number of votes given from a user to another is visible, when it is higher than 5.

@RebeccaChernoff I've asked some questions. Gotten some answers. Recommended it to friends.

@RebeccaChernoff apple.stackexchange.com/users/1346/… All of my questions asked on Ask Different. I consider them quite challenging for the most part. Part of the reason why my acceptance rate is unfortunately low. There is maybe 5 times as many times I've come across something beneficial than the number of question in this list. No need to ask a duplicate question, of course.

@bmike The total number of votes given from a user to another one is visible to moderators, when that number is higher than 5.

@JasonSalaz Let's - I'd love to podcast again with you and Nathan and Kyle

@JasonSalaz I know what to work on now. whistles

@Moshe by all means ;). Challenges are fun.

boooooo edit expirations. can't fix my embarrassing typos.

@RebeccaChernoff Like @JasonSalaz, I first came here to ask questions. But it's a resource too because it's an outlet for creative problem solving, a chance to learn AppleScript and Automator, a chance to chat, and a chance to help people with their computers.

@kiamlaluno I would have to rely on what tools are available to see what is next. As for how to handle it, not really sure, would have to be on a case by case basis.

@kiamlaluno I'd want to learn from the current moderators what the site guidelines are. I'd want to protect the site from vote gaming, but would also want to look for plausible reasons why that user's actions could be seen in a reasonable light before taking action. I suppose a short chat asking how the user was finding the site - asking if I could help almost always scares off someone who knows what they are doing is wrong.

@kiamlaluno Something to make the fellow mods aware of, and discuss. Like others, there is no 100% correct answer to this question in all cases. Could just be the fact that there are some users on Ask Different with a ton of high quality content.

@Daniel a chance, and a chance. fyi

@JasonSalaz 'Doh. And of course you notified me right as the 2 minute barrier hit.

@RebeccaChernoff I've met some great people and been able to participate in my first podcast. I've also come to learn as well as to share what I know about apple products and software.

Yup

@bmike My first podcast experience was wonderful. The people here are wonderful. My main hope for this election is that it doesn't disrupt our community -- no new moderator goes on a power-hungry tear and shuts things down. No one loses and is so hurt they go away.

After all these years, there's still a bit of (usually light-hearted) culture-warring between dedicated Apple users and fans of other brands. As a moderator, you'll occasionally find yourself interacting with users from other sites with different attitudes and cultures - how would you handle this?

@Daniel I'm staying regardless. Love it here.

@RebeccaChernoff Ive learned a bit of peoples workflows and scripting, which has inspired me to do even more with that. Moreso, it really has helped me grow with my Apple knowledge in general, by being able to help people and learning something new at the same time.

About ten minutes left. Time to start winding down. (:

@Shog9 Politely. People talk about how fast technology evolves, but they're usually talking about why they aren't buying the latest and greatest. People who still talk about "Macs being for artsy types" are using Pentium III logic. They forget that the same logic of evolution applies to these arguments. Hence, ignore. If that's impossible, politely coerce the conversation in a different direction.

@Shog9 I have a simple method for filtering criticism. When someone is attacking a product, or software or things - that's valid discussion and I do welcome most any opinion - especially if the person stays engaged and discusses things rather than dumping and leaving.

When they attack a person, then it's time to step in as a moderator and warn or edit or delete. Disagreements are great and often needed to learn or make a point. I love passion as long as there is respect.

(FYI, regarding the artsy comment, my video editing rig, now 3+ years old, is a PC, better for its money than a Mac would have been.)

@Shog9 If it's light hearted and on topic, so be it. Rants aren't questions or answers, though. I've flagged quite a few of them, and if there isn't any q or a content to salvage, really there isn't anything to do but delete them gently. But specifics of strengths or weaknesses of software or hardware, when relevant to the question, can be helpful. Flamewars have no place here.

@bmike Respect is key.

@Shog9 The other candidates bring up a valid point - it depends on the content and the direction of the remark(s) in question.

@Shog9 In chat, we've been cross-site friendly for some time. We have a resident Ask Ubuntu user (and mod hopeful!) who frequents the room, and on more than one occasion someone has come in to pre-screen a question with us. Even just today a user came in to ask if a Eudora/Rosetta Snow Leopard question was out of scope. Chat has been spirited, and more importantly, civil.

@WheatWilliams Platform pantheistic knowledge magpies. That's who we need to attract here.

@Daniel I just want to say that I've seen both @stuffe (who can't be here) and @daniel handle exactly the case that @shog9 asks about with great tact using the tools they have as users.

Commenting in a positive light, editing when needed (suggested edits that I was able to see and approve) as well as asking for clarification in chat when they saw something amiss on the site.

@Shog9 On the site, it depends on the extent of the 'war'. Really culture warring questions are the same as any other, the quality of the question determines it's survivability. I've seen a few questions about using $x android phone under Mac OS X, and to the best of my knowledge they've gone just fine, because the question was of more than acceptable quality, or was edited to be after some comments/discussion.

@bmike Which is why I think a lot of these questions aren't really moderator questions, per se. @bmike has been doing most of these things, in spades, for a long time. I try to. It's what makes a good user. And yes, it's even more important for a moderator.

@Shog9 I have been a Mac user for almost 16 years, and a Windows developer for the last 6. Even though I prefer Macs (and Apple in general), I always consider them tools. You use the best tool for the job. If the user has a valid discussion, I like to work through that, and I have very good understanding of many platforms.

@jmlumpkin On target. Technology is a tool.

@Daniel Want... To... Star... So... Badly.

To answer my own question (but I can't link to it), I'd look for a history of moderator-like behavior. Someone who comments well. Someone who flags appropriately. Someone who participates in chat, and meta, and guides users along. Some who has good edits. Someone who builds up the community.

@Daniel Something I think... hope... that you'll find if you are elected is that most of what a moderator has to do is stuff that other users could do as well (albeit perhaps with greater difficulty). SE is designed to be user-moderated... ;-)

I should have mentioned @JasonSalaz for being a user that works as a moderator since he was doing that before I even logged into this site for the first time. I always assumed he was a moderator by the guidance / advice in chat he has given me since day one.

Final thoughts from the candidates please?

@Shog9 Exactly!!!

@bmike even if I don't become a moderator, I'm going to really try to do more of this than I am already doing. Seeing you come along and set an amazing example has made me want to do more.

@RebeccaChernoff I'd love to be elected, but I see that there are some pretty qualified candidates here (aside from my-self-perceived-self). Best of luck to all. Oh, and I've been a member of StackOverflow for over two years. Consider my experience with the system when voting.

Yes - we do like magpies here since they are intelligent and a bit territorial. I do hope we get a mix of new and older members in our next class of moderators. Having 5 people to shape the site is something that will really give Ask Different a good balance to it as it grows this next year.

@RebeccaChernoff SE is moderated by its users. Many of us have been acting as moderators for months (or years, in the case of @JasonSalaz). You don't put a diamond next to someone's name to make them a moderator. You find people who are moderating the site and give them the diamond so they have better tools to get the job done that they are already doing.

@jmlumpkin thanks - I'm astounded at how much each of us can do to help the site by fixing a broken question or writing a seriously kick-a$$ good answer when lots of smart alec one liners are proposed to a really great question.

what the, where did my @ in that last question go?

Don't know, but it links somehow.

indeed

(it doesn't show up in multiline messages, but no worries)

noted. thanks.

Gnight all!

Oh - If I were king for a day, I'd change the URL to be askdifferent.stackexchange.com

I ... think I got all of them? I hope!

@RebeccaChernoff I really want to give back to this community in any way I can.

@JasonSalaz I hope so too!

@bmike what about askdifferent.com ?

and that's all the time we've got!

thanks to everyone for participating

@KyleCronin ok - anything that was s/apple/askdifferent/g

best of luck to all the candidates! (:

s/apple/askdifferent/g

Or what bmike said

@Daniel geek!

sorry. JAPH reflex

If you missed a question, or couldn't attend, feel free to answer now, tomorrow morning etc. We'll get your responses into the digest.

A digest will be posted to meta tomorrow. (:

Well done everybody.

What @Daniel said.

That's very interesting, Diago is in my @ list. It's not time-based history, it's scrollback history.

@RebeccaChernoff Thank you for your assistance - it was good to have so many questions from people who know what moderation on SE means.

(That's ridiculously good to know.)

Thanks everyone. Thanks for your questions and the opportunity to do this again.

@JasonSalaz Again, I so want to star that.

Permalink it in chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/38/ask-different-chat, that's what I did to yours.

One of bmike's too.

@JasonSalaz It's actually based on people you've seen; if you refreshed he wouldn't be in the completion list anymore

Please keep this room just for town hall stuff, back to the other chat room for general conversation! (:

@MichaelMrozek That is a better way of putting it. I "saw" Dori when I entered the room because she was still in the scroll back.

chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/38/ask-different-chat

@MichaelMrozek I missed this question during chat, but I want to answer. For myself, I don't have much to explain... I have the highest flag count on the site. But others might not flag very much because frankly, there isn't that much that needs flagging. I'm hyper-vigilant about it, and I've only managed to amass 231 flags. The mods act on them very quickly. So really, there isn't a lot of opportunity for most people to need to flag here. And that's a good thing about the site.

@JasonSalaz I think Jason has formulated my thoughts a bit better here. It's not an excuse to allow soft questions - but I think that some more advanced users look down on beginner questions as soft or obvious. I feel the balance is good but could always be better and having better questions is something moderators can make room for by helping cull the topics that lead to confusion / dissension and idle chatter.

@JasonSalaz I'm all for closing questions that are too soft since they rob space from the ones that need room and attention to grow. I'm also of the mind that the CW / poll type questions have to really, really shine to be worth keeping around. That's something the moderators will need to be in agreement to keep the site both fair and focused.

Hi, I brought coffee, when do we start? ;)

@Shog9 I sort of gravitated to Ask Different because I found that on a lot of other support forums, like the official Apple Discussion pages there was far too much competition to "win" the question. Over here, people support other peoples input, and don't try to go toe to toe with it. I like that, because I dislike online ego.

@Shog9 I have used those tools which are available to me by reputation, and have edited questions and answers belonging to other users where appropriate. I've used the flag tools, but relatively sparingly as I believe in allowing the OP opportunity to make changes their own way. Without being able to see a list of flagged messages It's hard to do much more, but I have by chance come across the odd post with an edit waiting for approval which I have acted on.

@RebeccaChernoff First thing I would do if elected, would be to investigate exactly what extra capabilities are available to me, and make it a point of learning to use each one appropriately as soon as possible, without going on a massive power splurge - there will be 3 new Mods all vying to make their mark, and we shouldn't be racing to the flags to prove a point

@MichaelMrozek I see flagging as a last resort. It's not fair to produce a huge pile of work for the Mods when you are able to attempt to effect the change you think is required without the mod tools. The mods have the power, but we should all share the responsibility to an extent, and I believe that a comment here and there directed at the OP suggesting improvements is often better than pointing a mod at the question...

@MichaelMrozek (cont) ... who may well just do the same initially, as well as having the fringe benefits of fostering a peer to peer attitude of mutual respect rather than a tiered system of importance.

@kiamlaluno I don't think that Ask Different has many active "problems", just a steady stream of occasional inappropriate usage that are nothing more than minor business as usual cleanup tasks. I see very little Spam, abusive content or vindictive voting, but this may be because the current mods are doing such a great job

@kiamlaluno (cont) ... One of the things I would like to see change is the relatively low voting ration that we seem to have, but I don't see that as a problem as such

@RebeccaChernoff Cleaning the toilets, polishing the mirrors - in short leaving the place as you would wish to find it ;)

@MichaelMrozek Mods are will act like a giant gravitational force attracting the worst that the community has. You can't please all of the people, all of the time, and I would expect to get some spikes of problem users. As per the blog we found only yesterday abusing Nathan and Kyle. Best you can do is be consistent, and never get personal. You've a role to fulfil, not a name to make.

@kiamlaluno I think it's key, because the Meta community is by it's very nature populated with people who want more than just to ask a question and get some help. It's filled by people who want to help more than ask. The key to moderation I feel is consistency, and this means being consistent in your own actions, but also aligning your methods and approach with the other mods.

@kiamlaluno The mods do not (or should not) set the tone, they gauge the tone from people in Meta, and work to make changes in a way that has community support. I've asked and answered a number of Meta questions, some practical (CSS bugs) some hypothetical (Non bumping edits a good idea?)

@WheatWilliams I have posted and earned a sliver of reputation in (in order of appearance!) Wordpress Answers, Gaming, Parenting and Science Fiction/Fantasy. Mainly as a bottom feeding question asker without giving much back yet.

@Daniel It's easy to count flags and create a formula to score candidates, but I think that the most important activity is interaction with users, and the attitude you show when you do it. A bazillion answers is wonderful, but it mainly shows how clever you are, and knowing a shedload about every Apple product ever doesn't mean that you are able to communicate well with people who may be upset or offended with something you or someone else has done

@GeorgeEdison I would avoid getting personal, and entering into a tit for tat edit/delete cycle with the user. The moment I see it as being directed at me, I would step back and request another mod to deal with the user and to amend any inappropriate comments etc.

@RebeccaChernoff I see this place as a learning experience, the users are sort of in class, nor on parole, and so if need be you direct them time and time again to improve their answers, providing suggestions, or making edits and commenting on why you changed the answer. Downvoting should be used, but as a carrot not a stick.

@RebeccaChernoff (cont) ... If this was consistently happening, I would invite the user into chat and engage in conversation about the site, and how best they can integrate into it. If they are doing it a lot it proves their enthusiasm to contribute, so they need encouragement to improve.

@MichaelMrozek The key to the soft questions like the Community Wikis is allowing them to run their course. It's no good allowing a bad one to start, then stopping it after 2 days. Some are great (Tiny things), others straight up wrong (Making safari perfect). I would (and have) propose that this sort of thing could be taken on by the mods, canvassing opinion on topics via meta/chat etc...

@MichaelMrozek (cont) ... And only allowing them to start after they have been pre-vetted, thus allowing the enforcement of strict rules of formatting and language etc. Allowing anyone to make one, which is then turned into a CW results on patchy questions.

@kiamlaluno I am not sure that I would ever "see" this, and would hope that automated system would pick on this sort of issue far faster than expecting a mod to be on top of the activity of every user. I wouldn't look at every question and might easily miss such behaviour as I don't intend to change my question surfing habits other than as directed by relevant flagging et. I can even foresee a time when this might be reasonable, if the questions in, er, question, are all on an obscure tag

@RebeccaChernoff I've asked 7 questions, and to be brutally honest, haven't got the answers I wanted on most of them. But that's not why I come on here, I use this site in the same way other might sit and do a crossword of an evening, it's a minor challenge that allows me some focussed time to dabble in things which usually results in learning something I didn't previously know. I don't know half the things I answer with until I research them because the question interests me.

@Shog9 I have spent my entire working life baiting users of other computing infrastructures in a light hearted way. Unix guys hate windows. Windows guys hate Apple. Everyone hates Mainframes. It's part of the fabric of identity to be able to have a bit of fun. They key to me, is that you can't really take part unless you know both sides of the story. And as per my candidacy bio, I have used more OS's than I have fingers and toes, in the last year alone!

@Shog9 (cont) ... In short, it's not an Issue for me. Mac OS X isn't even my favourite OS, I'm not precious about it, there is good and bad in every OS, some things in Windows I love, some things in OS X I hate, I can even find things to like about Ubuntu although I am largely anti-Linux given that my professional life includes 13 years of "proper" Unix like Solaris and HPUX etc.

@RebeccaChernoff Not a lot to add, other than to say that whilst I would enjoy being elected I will still be around even if I am not, and will look to try to stick around in Chat more and maybe participate in the peripheral activities like the Blog and Podcast because I think there's a room of sensible clever and mature people in here whom I would willingly get to know better.

@stuffe So we can get into it (friendly of course) between AIX (my OS of deepest professional use) and those other ones you mention?

@kiamlaluno My original response to this question neglected to actually, er, answer the question, as I mistook Meta AD for Meta SO. To answer it properly, in a word, no. I don't think there is particular relevance now in the same way as there might have been when it was more of a role model for the few new sites that came after it. The Mod ethos spans the site, and doesn't reside in the old throne room.