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00:00
@orthocresol I have got several visas for China. The process was different every time.
@Loong How was their embassy?
Hi @orthocresol I just realised that you're an Oxford undergrad (so am I - also a third year) I was just wondering how you get access to these references and do you find them useful? They always make these citations in lectures but I can't access them and I don't know if it's worth trying? — RobChem 11 hours ago
Hmm. I don't know any Robs.
I had a friend who tried to renounce her Chinese passport at the embassy in London. They gave her hell. I'd guess they're kinder to foreigners.
@orthocresol I didn't have to go the embassy; only my passport was sent there.
Ah, fair enough. It was quite a long time ago, but I remember we had to queue for ages to submit our passports.
I guess, the Chinese Wall is printed on the visa sticker for a reason.
Well, it was once used to keep out invaders.
00:07
Hm, but now it's used to attract tourists.
Times have changed... :D The Great Wall was very nice, but Beijing wasn't a nice place to live in.
At least, I didn't like it.
Getting US visa is fun too, a colleague was asked about 20 times if he really intends to leave the US again, I was asked nothing at all while the other guy next to us had really hard time why they should accept his application because he wanted to drive around and make art installations all over the US :-D
@orthocresol I liked Beijing, except for the smog and the traffic.
Jan
Jan
@orthocresol Basically what I think about Moscow, St. Petersburg and Jerusalem. (And probably Amman, although we didn’t get to see too much of that.)
The smog was certainly a factor. I think I didn't like the general attitude of people there; very brusque, in some ways.
That's supposedly how the "beifangren" (北方人, northerners) are.
Jan
Jan
00:19
Seems like a pattern.
Is that how Germany is? :D
@orthocresol I see. I also prefer Hong Kong to Beijing in this respect.
Jan
Jan
Top six active questions are my answers. I feel like your average late answerer.
Not everything’s Indian, @ortho! ;D
Hmm.... You sure your chemistry teacher wasn't Indian?
Jan
Jan
Yes, the teachers weren’t xD
(Gotta think if we had foreign teachers at all o.o')
Oh wait, we had an Austrian and a Swiss; they count, don’t they?
00:28
@Loong from my one-week stay in HK, I liked it; but perhaps I was aided by travelling with a fluent Cantonese speaker. I can speak a little bit of it, maybe enough to order food.
Hmm... Japan was nice.
My Japanese proficiency is limited to a self-introduction.
@orthocresol I said something in Cantonese only once, a destination to a taxi driver. And it worked, I was very proud.
Not bad!
It's actually quite a difficult dialect, I feel. I think Mandarin is much easier.
Jan
Jan
@Loong Nice, I tried pronouncing a Swedish street name to a Swedish taxi driver and he was unable to understand.
On the other hand, I am unable to understand the underground train drivers in Munich.
Jan
Jan
@Loong For those who have never been to Munich underground: imagine rather grumpy men speaking unclearly, using dialect, being at a nonideal distance from the mic and over speaker systems from the 70’s … yep, no surprises there ;)
00:40
I actually haven't gone to visit mainland Europe yet, hoping to get round to it either this or next year...
Oh, that's a bit of a lie, actually. I've been to Spain and Italy before. But there's so much more to see haha
Jan
Jan
France, Austria, Bavaria, the Czech Republic … yeah, a few nice places ;)
can anyone suggest a possible impurity that has a medium IR peak at 2159 and two little bumps at 2028 and 1976? I have this characteristic in the IR spectra of 3 different compounds
2159 sounds like a triple bond, so I was thinking acetonitrile, but google says otherwise
yeah I was thinking it was something like that too, but I've got no idea where it would've come from
both complexes were synthesized in EtOH. One used AcOH, but the other didn't. The other one also had n-PrOH in it. No triple bonded solvents anywhere.
Well if it's showing up in all three compounds I'd assume that it's some solvent.
Could you NMR it?
Otherwise it might just be your complex, who knows. Or starting material.
00:50
Doesn't has to be triple bond. azides for example are around 2100
good point
but all my expected impurities would be alcohols and carbonyls
OK I'm just labelling it "mystery impurity"...
@DSVA true, I always forget about those... allenes too, ~2000
hmm these compounds all have organic ligands. I wonder if these could be strange signals from the ligands. I've got acac and dppp
dppp
hmm I'll have to do some other analyses I guess.
 
3 hours later…
04:04
@Ramanujan "The atom of transition elements" means the elements in the d-block
So oxidation no. Of Mo will be 6-10=-4?
So oxidation no. Of elements till 9th group will be (-ve)?@DHMO
@Ramanujan no
Ignore your textbook
04:09
But d-block elements have group no less than 10
?
Ignore what your textbook says
Is it wrong?
I think so
Then what it might be 10-(group no.)?
@Ramanujan it's for the p-block, (group no.)-10
This is a list of known oxidation states of the chemical elements, excluding nonintegral values. The most common states appear in bold. The table is based on that of Greenwood and Earnshaw, with additions noted. Oxidation state 0, which occurs for all elements, is implied by the column with the symbol of the element. The format of the table, which was devised by Mendeleev in 1889, shows the periodicity of the oxidation states of the elements. == List == A figure with a similar format (shown below) was used by Irving Langmuir in 1919 in one of the early papers about the octet rule. The periodicity...
Just look at this list
04:13
@DHMO for aluminum it has given -2,-1,1,2,3
Iam nervous now
@Ramanujan some of the oxidation states in my link are not required to know lol
OK,so wikipedia says d-block has both positive and negative oxidation states
04:28
@DHMO If an element has oxidation state of -3 then how do we represent it in stock notation?
@Ramanujan we don't
So stock notation is only for positive oxidation state?
yes
In HAuCl_4
H has +1 and cl has -1 so Au has -3?
+3
04:32
But h has +1 and cl has -1 so on Au it will have -3
+3
(+1) + (+3) + (-1)x4 = 0
OK,sorry
05:28
@DHMO what is the role of state of water in reaction of displacing hydrogen with metals?
@Ramanujan role of state of water??
what does that even mean?
Like cold water and steam water
In reaction
> Potassium, sodium, lithium and calcium all react very fast when placed in water.
Magnesium requires the water to be in the form of steam for a clearly observable reaction to take place.
05:35
Yes! Why mg needs steam water?where na and other only need cold water for reaction,why?
@Ramanujan because Mg is less reactive than Na
Steam has more energy than water because of its higher temperature and its gaseous state
 
2 hours later…
07:48
So Castro's gone!
> and thus, my life-long wish to stroke Fidel's beard, shall remain unfulfilled. :'(
08:30
I'm making a list of unicode hex symbols for chemistry students. Anyone got any good ones to contribute? So far I've got α,β,ˠ,∆,µ,π,∑,σ,Ω,±,≤,≥,≈,°,⇌,←,↑,→,↓,↔, and ∕ (for writing inline fractions).
I'm so sick of having to click around to get my symbols
∪∩ⁿαβγδεζηθικλμνξοπρςστυφχψωΑΒΓΔΕΖΗΘΙΚΛΜΝΞΟΠΡΣΤΥΦΧΨΩ∈∉∋∌∏∑√∝∞∟∠∧∨∣∥∩∪∫∬∮∴∵∶∷⊂⊃⊄⊅‌​⊆⊇+-×÷±=≠∼≈≡<≤≦≪≮>≥≥≧≫≯⊕⊗%‰∀∂∃∅∆∇⇌⇍⇎⇏⇐⇑⇒⇓⇔⇕⇖⇗⇘⇙⇚⇛⇜⇝⇞⇟⇠⇡⇢⇣↮↯↰↱↲↳↴↵↶↷↸↹↺↻↼↽↾↿⇀⇁⇂⇃⇄⇅‌​⇆⇇⇈⇉⇊⇋←↑→↓↔↕↖↗↘↙↚↛↜↝↞↟↠↡↢↣↤↥↦↧↨↩↪↫↬↭《》〔〕【】〘〙「」『』︵︶︷︸︹︺︻︼︽︾︿﹀﹁﹂()[]{}()[]{}❨❩❲❳❴❵‘‌​’“”❛❜❝❞<>〈〉‡‥…‰※‾⁄‼⁇⁈⁉√π±×÷¶∆¤µ‹›«»+-\/[]{}<>“”·‘’¡¿¥€£¢©®™℃℉°§№†
Some might help you
08:48
hmm I guess some of the math ones
The arrows and the α,β,ˠ,∆,µ,π are the really important ones I think
what's with the chloroauric acid?
The other day one of my conspiracy theorist friends told me he wants to start making gold nanoparticle solutions to sell to hippies for the supposed health benefits (there aren't any)
and it turns out that acid is involved
(you get it when you dissolve gold in aqua regia) and then you reduce it with sodium citrate, which blocks the gold(0) from forming large crystals and gets you nanoparticles. Seems kinda cool. Now I want to try do it too.
 
3 hours later…
12:19
9
Q: Negative Kelvin Temperature

skill patrolI remember my Physical Chemistry Professor saying that very tiny negative Kelvin temperatures have been achieved on the quantum level. Is this true?

 
4 hours later…
16:33
@DHMO hi
hi
What is the oxidation state of 4S^{-2} ?
question does not make sense
I think it should be 0
question does not make sense
16:34
Because it is a molecule
so?
what the hell is 4S{-2}?
Still a molecule ?
Sodium tetrasulfide is an inorganic compound with the formula Na2S4. It is a yellow-orange solid that dissolved with hydrolysis in water. They are precursors to some specialty polymers and intermediates in prototypes of the sodium-sulfur battery. == Synthesis and structure == It is produced through the reaction between elemental sulfur and sodium hydrosulfide in alcoholic solution: 2NaSH + 4 S → Na2S4 + H2S The polysulfide anions adopt zig-zag chains of sulfur atoms. The S-S distances are about 2.05 Å and the S-S-S-S dihedral angles are around 90°. == Reactions and applications == Upon treatment...
?
Raises eyebrows
oxidation state of an atom.
16:36
@Secret Mhm this prolly
you can't say the oxidation state of a group of ions.
it is S_4^{-2} not 4S^{-2} @Ramanujan they are different
I mean this one
It means each S has oxidation state -2
4S^{2-} itself does not have an oxidation state
So it's -2 for one "S"?
yes
16:40
So it is -2 because it has -2 charge?
yes
Is that charge on whole molecule or one atom of S?
one ion of S
@Ramanujan That question doesn't make sense.
What is oxidation state of cl in ClO_4 ^{-1}
16:50
compare electronegativity: O is more electronegative than Cl
I am not getting os of O
so assign O = -2
therefore Cl = 7
@Ramanujan There are bunch of elements that are more likely to be specific OS's. Assign their OS and then work out the rest.
x-8= 0 or -1?
-1
16:51
-1. Why 0?
There's no magic. Believe that and you won't be frustrated.
I thought Total will be 0
So total will be charge on molecule?
Yes
But it's called a polyatomic ion usually then, not a molecule
Unless you're talking acid-base.
And even then it's ''ion'' most of the time.
Strange
No it's not.
Cl has +ve OS when it is combining with less electro negativity atom
17:05
@Ramanujan . . . what?
Cl has +ve OS when it is combining with less electro negativity atom(viz:O)
 
3 hours later…
20:01
Man I've seen some weird anonymous stuff in the suggested edits queue today and yesterday...
I don't get it
checking
you can tell me if my rejects are correct too
@pentavalentcarbon First of all, thank you for not being a robo-reviewer. :-)
no problem...still a little nervous when the content is out of my wheelhouse but I figure I'll get yelled at if I do something silly
That last suggested edit clearly had to be rejected. It was probably a mistake by the editor.
20:12
But where do the anonymous editors come from? Doesn't make much sense to me.
20:57
@DSVA o/
Just got to chat too :)
And @orthocresol o/
How is moddy seal today? ;D
@pentavalentcarbon One doesn't actually need an account to suggest edits.
SE philosophy and all that...
@Mithoron quite busy with work this week... holidays starting next week so it should get better :)
@orthocresol holidays?
Indeed. Holidays..
hi =)
21:08
:-D this whole system with terms and finals and midterms and all that stuff is so strange to me. we had semesters but most lectures were "blocked" over just 1-2 months and there is no such thing as finals. You just took the exams whenever you want, most lectures had one every month
now that sounds weird to me
actually, ours is not so complicated; we have three terms per year, and (for chemists at least) we take one set of exams at the end of each year.
different courses though have exams all over the place
and it's highly unlikely to change any time in the near future, since we love clinging on to tradition
oxford's just weird in that aspect
yes it's not complicated but it's like school. we have something similar to universities where they use such a system too, but at universities the general idea is that the student should organize himself.
you don't even need to do everything in order
but I guess there are advantages and disadvantages to both systems:-D
I guess it depends on the student too. Some do very well when they can dictate their own pace, etc.
Being an Asian I am fairly used to rigidity, so that works for me.
yeah, I just feel like students especially in the US are often treated like little kids and not like adults, which is strange.
21:37
3
Q: Relation between constant-pressure and constant-volume heat capacities: Cp - Cv = nR

orthocresolFor an ideal gas, we have $$C_p - C_V = nR$$ where $C_p$ is heat capacity at constant pressure, $C_V$ is heat capacity at constant volume, $n$ is amount of substance, and $R=8.3144598(48)\ \mathrm{J\ mol^{-1}\ K^{-1}}$[source] is the molar gas constant. How can I prove this?

 
1 hour later…
22:48
@orthocresol I know, but what I don't know is why they'd even bother. If it was vandalism, fine, but otherwise why not just make an account and get some kind of credit for your work...
I had 15 first post reviews today, where's my badge dangit
I have a doubt about stability of 1-isopropyl-naphtalene and 2-isopropyl-naphtalene
Well in fact I don't know which one it the most stable
I'm not the person to ask, I don't know about organic chemistry...you might have to wait until someone else comes back
@Hexacoordinate-C you know about kinetic vs thermodynamic sulfonation of naphthalene?
7
Q: Thermodynamic vs Kinetic Sulphonation of Naphthalene

RobChem The left hand isomer is clearly the kinetically favoured product and the right hand isomer is the thermodynamically favoured product. However, I have no idea why. Can you explain?

ok, wonderful, we have a question on it, and ron explained it quite well (as usual) :D
22:53
No, my mind would say 2 but without explainations...
ok thanks let me see
@pentavalentcarbon Altruistic passers-by, I guess.
I had to google how to pluralise passer-by.
And now I'm googling whether it's hyphenated.
Apparently it's not hyphenated and the correct pluralisation is passersby.
!!flip/english
(∿°○°)∿ǝuƃꞁᴉsɥ
@orthocresol If you say so :D
I've seen both, this isn't English.SE, whatever.
Well, I was just correcting myself.
22:59
I'm just cranky since I'm tired and I don't know why
@orthocresol I have the same number of resonance structures for both .. :/
Some resonance structures break the aromaticity of the other ring, those are less favourable.
But that's not really what you're looking for, if you're trying to compare thermodynamic stability.
> However, naphthalene-2-sulfonic acid is a few kcal/mol more stable than its 1-isomer. This is due to an adverse 1,8 steric interaction present in the 1-isomer.

Because the sulfonation reaction is reversible, if we run it long enough at high temperature (favoring reversibility), eventually we will wind up with the thermodynamically preferred (more stable) product, the 2-isomer.
I'm not that confident with the 1.8 steric effect, it not looks obvious for me
Well, naphthalene is planar.
So, the hydrogen at C-8 as well as the central carbon of the C-1 isopropyl group are also coplanar.
Then you build a model. :D
I will build a model ^^
23:08
Steric effects aren't always obvious with skeletal formulae, because they're condensed. But yeah, this one is quite well-known; it's called a peri interaction.
Never heard about that :)
Now you have!
We learn every days ! :D
And on my mesomeric form I don't see where I'm wrong but for the first one I have two with aromatic cycle and just one for the 2 ..
Take a picture?
yep
@orthocresol with the molecular model it looks obvious then !
Well in fact I forgot to draw some others
23:26
I think you got it right.
But I'll have more aromatic for the 1 than for the 2
The 1-substitution should be kinetically favoured, because it proceeds via the lower-energy intermediate
But the 2-product is thermodynamically favoured, because less steric repulsions
Hum I will remember that for my exam tomorrow I'll think deeper about it an other time. See you and thanks ! :)
Goodnight!

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