The Periodic Table

Jan

00:04

@ToddMinehardt For a second I was thinking Mart the mod’s guys xD

Todd Minehardt

@ringo - Nah, Steve Martin, orgo :)

Jan

If that was re me; I’m not Ringo ;)

Todd Minehardt

oops @Jan sorry :)

ringo

@orthocresol chemistry.stackexchange.com/questions/62620/what-is-cresol-soap

A family recipe?

Jan

I fear that soap may be made of seals D=

Loong

00:17

orthocresol

hmph

Zhe

00:37

@ringo That's pretty cool

It's just like using phenol

And that would'be been antiseptic

orthocresol

00:57

@ringo @Jan apparently, I am safe; these soaps don't contain me.

Jan

We were lucky =D

Jan

01:28

@ortho, you seem to still be around. Can you tell me if my answer to the ionisation energy question is physically sound or mislead?

0

A: Do cations have high or low ionization energies?

Consider a simple thought experiment. Your ionisation process is essentially removing a (negatively charged) electron from a remainderatom. $$\ce{Atom^n+ -> Remainderatom^{(n+1)+} + e-}$$ Throughout this process, you are separating charges, thus there is an electrostatic force driving the elect...

orthocresol

It's simplistic, but works (which is what you said anyway), and I read that argument elsewhere before too.

I really dislike the phrasing "nucleus pulls on the electrons more", that's all.

Maybe I shouldn't have bothered.

It's not wrong, but has massive potential to be interpreted wrongly. For example I've seen people write that "the nuclear attraction is distributed over fewer electrons => each individual electron feels a stronger nuclear attraction".

Jan

@orthocresol I was thinking that that’s the difference between my way of writing and Lone wolf’s.

orthocresol

Well, he edited it. It seems fine to me now.

Funny thing is I didn't even downvote the answer. Oh well.

Jan

:D

Yeah, but you can never tell downvoters …

orthocresol

Yeah you can't.

I guess you circumvented it entirely by treating the atom as a point particle ;)

Jan

01:38

Reads a little like ‘but I can with my supermodpowers *muahahahahaaa~*’ xD

orthocresol

You can't, but I can.

MUAHAHAHAHA

(Actually, I can't. Lol)

Jan

It’s a good thing I didn’t run in the election; I would totally abuse my mod powers due to curiosity every second day.

Oh wait you can’t? Damnit, revert that statement =C

(Another reason never to run for mod, then xD)

orthocresol

I've probably done so already.

For example, I've found your home address already. Be prepared

Jan

At least you’re honest and self-critical xD

That would be strange; I didn’t know mods had access to SE emails xD

orthocresol

We have access to everything including your date of birth and passport number.

Jan

01:41

Cool. Now I wanna be mod again =3

orthocresol

You can run when I resign ^^

If my workload increases too much I will quit... but that's not happening for a while at least.

My real life workload that is.

Jan

But on a more serious note: You can see the email I’m signed up with so you could send me emails in private if you wanted?

orthocresol

Yes. We have access to emails but there are nearly no cases in which we need to actually email people: meta.stackexchange.com/q/17173/312770

Loong

@Jan Yes, however, access to personally identifiable information is logged.

orthocresol

So, actually using it to send private emails would constitute abuse.

Jan

01:47

Ah, SE preventing abuse with a logging system. I approve ^^

orthocresol

But it leads to deforestation. :(

Jan

Sustainable logging is fine, imho …

orthocresol

Oh well, I'm off to sleep.

Nights to both of you :)

Loong

@orthocresol Good night!

Jan

Good night o/

I should go, too. It’s an hour later here than at ortho’s place …

But seeing that @Loong is still around, I don’t feel so bad …

user228700

02:41

Hello everyone :-)

user228700

I've a question about steam distillation.

user228700

> "Steam is blown through the mixture and the water and phenylamine turn to vapour. This vapour can be condensed and collected. As the hot steam passes through the mixture it condenses, releasing heat. The condensed vapour will consist of both water and phenylamine. If these were truly immiscible, they would form two layers which could be separated using a separating funnel."

user228700

I found this here: chemguide.co.uk/physical/phaseeqia/immiscible.html

user228700

I don't understand exactly what is happening, in order...

Jan

*still waiting for your suggestion of the order*

orthocresol

09:12

@Jan That's exactly what I was thinking when I went to sleep :P

Hexacoordinate-C

11:32

That's weird we cannot send pictures from mobile phone

Martin - マーチン

12:51

Good one Ina! @M.A.R.

and the whole thing reminds me of most posts of Marko... i.e. why should I include my failed research...

Aaron Abraham

13:07

@Martin o/

Any organic chemists here? [Jan's gone for the night :( ]

It's a little issue with carbohydrates.

Ramanujan

13:38

@DHMO hi

Do we every time get CO_2 in a combustion reaction?

orthocresol

@AaronAbraham you could try me, although no guarantees

-2

Q: Delete This Question Already

Delete this question already. I have flagged this for deletion because I can't delete it as it already has answers. Someone delete this please. Why are you mods so persistent on keeping this question up? I agree this question has not been productive and only confusing, so it is not contributing...

organic-chemistry

does anybody have a quick link to the content ownership policy

Loong

@orthocresol stackexchange.com/legal/terms-of-service ?

orthocresol

@Loong Thanks. That's the one

Aaron Abraham

@orthocresol Gimme a sec

Well, here's the problematic bit:

> Reactions with carbohydrates should be carried out it acidic or neutral medium, because in a basic medium they undergo rearrangement.

To what degree is that^ correct?

orthocresol

I'm not entirely sure, actually.

Is this referring to the open-chain form of carbohydrates?

Those can undergo rearrangement via keto-enol tautomerism.

Aaron Abraham

13:50

@orthocresol The text doesn't specify ._.

@orthocresol ಠ_ಠ

I googled 'carbohydrate rearrangement' and I got : The Ferrier rearrangement and the Lobry de Bruyn–van Ekenstein transformation ._.

orthocresol

well, glucose can isomerise to, for example, fructose

Aaron Abraham

ಠ_ಠ

orthocresol

6

Q: Why does fructose reduce Tollen's reagent and Fehling's solution?

Even though fructose is a ketohexose (ketone-containing hexose, a six-carbon monosaccharide), it reduces Tollen's reagent and Fehling's solution. Generally, a ketone does not reduces Tollen's reagent and Fehling's solution. So, why is this possible in the case of fructose?

organic-chemistry biochemistry carbohydrates

Does that help perhaps? haha

Aaron Abraham

@orthocresol Ah yes; but would you happen to know if that statement is correct?

orthocresol

I'd be inclined to agree with it.

Aaron Abraham

13:55

@orthocresol So what rearrangement d'ya think they're talking about? [ @Loong mentioned the van Ekenstein transformation, but all the same...]

orthocresol

Precisely the one that Loong described, just a series of keto-enol tautomerisms.

Aaron Abraham

@orthocresol danke ;)

@getafix o/

getafix

@AaronAbraham hullo

Aaron Abraham

@getafix You seem...kinda down ._. What's up?

getafix

what makes you say that? lol

It's the usual problem sets and mid terms

Loong

14:00

@orthocresol hm, what is that wikiwand link doing in that answer?

Aaron Abraham

@getafix Lack of punctuation X'D

@getafix OH WAIT! I forgot to ask! Did you make it to Hoffmann's lecture? :O

getafix

Oh yeah I did.

It was great

There was no place to sit, so my friend ( a postdoc) and i literally sat on the floor in the back..

Aaron Abraham

@getafix Got someone to tape the other class? 3;)

getafix

It was like listening to jesus on the mountain or something..

Aaron Abraham

XD

getafix

14:01

nah, don't really give a fuck about civil engineering

orthocresol

@Loong I didn't notice actually lol

Aaron Abraham

@getafix "Transformational" ;)

getafix

I did send in my report, and had someone else sign the attendance shit

Aaron Abraham

@getafix And that wouldn't be an issue? O.o

getafix

Well I still haven't gotten around to reading the papers he referenced..sigh

well, i tried to be nice and sent the prof an email a week in advance but he never replied..so he can go suck a bag of dicks for all I care..

Aaron Abraham

14:03

@getafix Whoa, first off...what was the lecture even about?

getafix

also about your carbohydrate question..

Aaron Abraham

@getafix Ouch

getafix

epimerisation is quite likely in a basic media..

Aaron Abraham

@getafix Do I get to ask why?

getafix

hoffman spoke about carbon clathrates and 1 dimensional benzene polymers (nanothreads)..

the title of the talk was new games to play with carbon.

Aaron Abraham

14:05

@getafix 1 dimensional benzene ? O.o

getafix

i dimensional benzene polymer..

basically CH

oh and graphanes..

Aaron Abraham

GraphEnes?

getafix

no

I am not stupid

phane

lol

Aaron Abraham

@getafix No No...I implied a typo ;P

getafix

basically half of it was dedicated to (CH)n

and half of it to clathrates.

Aaron Abraham

14:07

> Graphane is a two -dimensional polymer of carbon and hydrogen with

Wikipedia

!!wiki/Graphane

Chemobot

Graphane

Graphane is a two-dimensional polymer of carbon and hydrogen with the formula unit (CH)n where n is large. Graphane should not be confused with graphene, a two-dimensional form of carbon alone. Graphane is a form of hydrogenated graphene. Graphane's carbon bonds are in sp3 configuration, as opposed to graphene's sp2 bond configuration, thus graphane is a two-dimensional analog of cubic diamond. == Structure == The structure was found, using a cluster expansion method, as the most stable of all the possible hydrogenations ratios of graphene in 2003. In 2007, researchers found that the compound is...

getafix

yup that

Aaron Abraham

At @getafix I really don't get the one dimensional thingy ._.

getafix

stack benzene rings on top of each other

remove double bonds and connect..

Aaron Abraham

@getafix Oh? But wouldn't the polymer have a width?

So 2D?

getafix

14:09

yeah of course..

1 D not in the mathematical sense..

Aaron Abraham

@getafix In that case, Alright! ^_^

getafix

plus anyway, there was interesting discussion about topology too..it was a great lecture all in all.

Aaron Abraham

@getafix I haven't studied topology (yet)... so I can't judge that ;p

getafix

me neither

I am not a mathematician

I have seen some topology in my analysis classes..

Aaron Abraham

Just curious, weren't you caught up in the whole 'entrance exam' thing? After all, you did do your HS back here ._.

getafix

14:12

yeah I took the medical entrances for the lols.

Aaron Abraham

The "lols" huh?

getafix

I actually had an offer + scholarship from my current uni before I took my boards.

Aaron Abraham

@getafix Oooh! How'd that materialize?

getafix

I applied early.

and then I got lazy and did not apply anywhere else..

Aaron Abraham

@getafix ಠ_ಠ

getafix

14:13

sigh bad move on my part

Aaron Abraham

@getafix Where else would you've applied?

getafix

I wasn't so serious back then

Aaron Abraham

IISER?

@getafix I hear that a lot XD

getafix

no, i did not want to stay in India

Japan seemed like a fun place to go to..

Aaron Abraham

@getafix You know Japanese?

getafix

14:15

other than that, I had explored unis in the states.

Aaron Abraham

@getafix I'm currently under the impression that's true ;)

getafix

Japan was kinda wild card.

but it has been a valuable learning experience lol, although I am kinda fed up of my uni in particular.

I don't speak a lot

I can understand some

can't really read..

Aaron Abraham

@getafix It'll nuked by N.Korea someday in the not-to-distant future...of course it's a wild card :D

getafix

I obviously spend more time doing science than learning japanese.

Aaron Abraham

@getafix Obvi

getafix

14:17

yeah but once I have some time, i want to learn it well..

we had classes everyday in first year, but they weren't very helpful

doing exercises, exams everyday is not how you learn a language in my opinion..

Aaron Abraham

@getafix I wanna learn German :3 =*_*=

@getafix Isn't that what CBSE does? X'D

getafix

the little that I have learned is by talking to people..or mostly just listening to people talk

Loong

@orthocresol "improved formatting"

Aaron Abraham

@getafix Are you a manga guy or an anime guy? O.o

orthocresol

@Loong LOL

getafix

14:18

Neither.

Aaron Abraham

@orthocresol ಠ_ಠ

getafix

I don't really read manga.

I watch some anime, but I am not crazy about it

Aaron Abraham

@getafix Ah well, I don't blame ye :P

getafix

I like studio ghibli,

Aaron Abraham

Btw, what entrance exams did you sit?

getafix

14:20

great art+music

Aaron Abraham

AIPMT?

@getafix Don't know it ._.

getafix

yeah I think it was

I don't know the indian govt is stupid. they went from AIPMT to NEET to AIPMT?

Aaron Abraham

I'm kinda new to the whole anime-manga thing myself

More of a manga guy though ;)

getafix

i took it the year they went back to AIPMT

i did not really study for it

Aaron Abraham

@getafix They went back to NEET again XD XD XD

getafix

14:21

my national rank was like 14,000

oh wow!

Aaron Abraham

indianexpress.com/article/explained/…

getafix

I don't get them lol

Aaron Abraham

@getafix They're the government... of course they don't function in a way that's to be understood XD

getafix

yeah

I think the exams are pretty easy

if you study for them..

Aaron Abraham

Scientists have discovered the heaviest element known to science which can only be found in India.

The new element is Governmentonium (Gov). It has one neutron, one pseudo-neutron , 31 assistant neutrons, 30 deputy assistant neutrons, 252 higher neutrons and 545 lower neutrons giving it an atomic mass of 851u.

These 851 particles are held together by forces called morons, which are
surrounded by vast quantities of particles called peons.

Since Governmentonium has no electrons or protons, it is inert. However, it

This one's old, but still amusing :)

getafix

14:25

lol

Aaron Abraham

> since it has half as many
peons but twice as many morons

That was priceless XD

I giggle every time I see it :D

getafix

yeah. anyhoo, I think I should sleep..I have a lot of work to do tomorrow. ciao

Aaron Abraham

@getafix Adieu o/

@ortho I think I've become @Loong 's sock now ._.

orthocresol

@AaronAbraham That's a disaster. We'll just have to suspend Loong.

Loong

:-(

orthocresol

14:30

As for socks, they just get outright deleted

So, goodbye.

Aaron Abraham

@orthocresol NO WAIT!

I..um....I...uh...like seals? Um heh heh?

orthocresol

delete-this-user

Aaron Abraham

?

orthocresol

I wonder what that button does.

Aaron Abraham

Ortho, No...

roasted-seal

I wonder what that does? @orthocresol

@getafix Oh wait, I forgot to tell you: be careful when ye say stuff like that ._. A month back, they slapped someone with "sedition" because he typed something along similar lines :P

@ortho A question?

'bout Fehling's test ._.

orthocresol

14:44

Hmm?

Aaron Abraham

According to my book, the Fehling's test is used to identify aldehydes and reducing sugars. However ketones do not give a positive result for it.

Right?

._.

@Loong Kannst du auch helfen?

DSVA

Fehling does only work with aldehydes. reducing sugars can be aldehydes or ketones, but those ketones have first to be tautomerized to aldehydes

Aaron Abraham

Does the tautomerisation bit apply to cyclic sugars too? O.o

DSVA

Well, no. The cyclic form doesn't react. Only the open chain form can react with fehling, since only in this case you actually got an aldehyde, and for ketoses only the open form can tautomerize since you only got the ketone in the open form.

Aaron Abraham

@DSVA Ah well, that make sense :D

orthocresol

15:00

But, in any solution of glucose, for example, there will always be some amount of open chain form present.

Once that amount of it reacts, then more of the cyclic form will open up to give the open-chain form (Le Chatelier's principle).

And so on, and so on. Eventually all of it will react.

If you dump in enough of the other reactant, that is.

For a qualitative analysis, you probably don't need to react all of it ;)

The cyclic form doesn't have a carbonyl group; it's "protected" as a hemiacetal. So, there's no keto-enol tautomerism to speak of in the cyclic form.

user228700

15:58

Ello everyone!

user228700

Is anybody familiar w/ gamma radiation? I've a quick question about it.

user228700

Ah, never mind.

pentavalentcarbon

16:22

it's dangerous and you should stay away from it

Loong

16:33

oh no, gamma spectroscopy is always fun

pentavalentcarbon

Gamma spectroscopy

Gamma-ray spectroscopy is the quantitative study of the energy spectra of gamma-ray sources, in such as the nuclear industry, geochemical investigation, and astrophysics. Most radioactive sources produce gamma rays, which are of various energies and intensities. When these emissions are detected and analyzed with a spectroscopy system, a gamma-ray energy spectrum can be produced. A detailed analysis of this spectrum is typically used to determine the identity and quantity of gamma emitters present in a gamma source, and is a vital tool in radiometric assay. The gamma spectrum is characteristic...

Loong

Although there is not much practical chemistry involved. If you want to do real radiochemistry, you have to do alpha or beta spectroscopy.

pentavalentcarbon

I can't say I've ever heard of any of these but it makes perfect sense for radiochemistry

So there isn't gamma absorption spectroscopy, right?

Loong

@pentavalentcarbon That would be something like Mössbauer spectroscopy.

pentavalentcarbon

...duh...

Aaron Abraham

17:38

@ortho Another question?

Does something have to be an Acyloin type of ketone, if it's gotta be converted to the aldose form in the presence of a base?

> Thus, although the ketose fructose is not strictly a reducing sugar, it is an alpha-hydroxy-ketone, and gives a positive test because it is converted to the aldoses glucose and mannose by the base in the reagent.

!!wiki/Benedict's reagent

Chemobot

Benedict's reagent

Benedict's reagent (often sold as Benedict's Qualitative Solution or Benedict's Solution) is a chemical reagent named after an American chemist, Stanley Rossiter Benedict. Benedict's reagent is a chemical reagent commonly used to detect the presence of reducing sugars, however other reducing substances also give a positive reaction. This includes all monosaccharides and many disaccharides, including lactose and maltose. Such tests that use this reagent are called the Benedict's tests. Generally, Benedict's test detects the presence of aldehydes, alpha-hydroxy-ketones, also by hemiacetal, including...

orthocresol

Yes.

Do you know the mechanism?

Loong

19:48

2

Q: Elimination in dibromocinnamic acid

The above is a picture of dibromocinnamic acid. In the lab today I carried out an elimination reaction on this molecule using potassium carbonate giving the carbonate anion as a base. I thought about the mechanism and I initially thought that the base would attack the hydrogen on the leftmost c...

organic-chemistry reaction-mechanism

Hm, the picture doesn’t show dibromocinnamic acid. What is correct here, the name or the picture?

orthocresol

I'm guessing the picture.

Loong

Yeah, the picture goes better with the description of the proposed mechanism.

!!img/2,3-dibromo-3-phenylpropanoic acid

Chemobot

orthocresol

20:05

should I be proud of this?

._.

Loong

Mod abuse!

orthocresol

I am not going down without a fight

1,3-feeds

22:52

0

Q: Group theory tables

Just a pet project of mine that will likely serve minimal use. And something for me to do when I'm bored because I like looking at LaTeX. The tables are taken from the OUP website; there are some typos which were distributed internally in my university. I have corrected the tables as necessary. ...

discussion

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