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02:00 - 19:0019:00 - 21:00

02:14
Lol
 
10 hours later…
11:52
Hi,

under standard conditions does the combustion of methane produce liquid or gaseous water?

It seems that when calculating the enthalpy change, the value for liquid water is used, but when calculating the entropy change, the value for gaseous water is used.
user116211
12:52
@IͶΔ: o/
\o
@Jacobadtr Hullo! Welcome to the Table!
If you say standard conditions, that means you keep the stuff at 0 deg C.
That would mean water will be liquid.
13:31
@IͶΔ Thankyou. Ok, that makes sense. I was thinking that since the reaction produces alot of heat that this might mean the water is a gas
@Jacobadtr Well, depending on the time, it can be in different states.
Sure, immediately after burning it will be a gas.
But they usually jot down the final products. Water condenses and becomes a liquid.
Ok, that seems sensible.

Thanks for your help
@IͶΔ is that you real name? Why do you use square and triangles in your name?
@AdityaDev I think your second question answers your first question.
Hullo @ron!
13:48
what is difference between acyclic and aromatic(i know i am idiot!) @IͶΔ
@DeNiSkA A lot of things. A- is an antonymizer in English, so acyclic would mean "not cyclic", just like atypical would mean "not typical".
@IͶΔ lol!! alicyclic i mean
Aromatic is a branch of compounds with extra stability.
Aha.
Alicyclic compounds aren't aromatic but have rings.
Organic compounds are either aliphatic or aromatic.
@Ron there is no third category, right?
'cause I didn't dig into this classification stuff enough, I think.
Aliphatic but non-aromatic compounds are called alicyclic.
@IͶΔ but how will i differentiate between them?(is the only difference stability?)
IRL the only difference is that aromatic compounds are more stable. Do you know how to mark conjugated cyclic organic compounds as aromatic?
13:55
@IͶΔ No!
Do you know how to check conjugation?
Do you know how to check planarity?
@IͶΔ you mean that double single bond pattern
@IͶΔ no
@DeNiSkA It happens then too.
In chemistry, a conjugated system is a system of connected p-orbitals with delocalized electrons in molecules with alternating single and multiple bonds, which in general may lower the overall energy of the molecule and increase stability. Lone pairs, radicals or carbenium ions may be part of the system. The compound may be cyclic, acyclic, linear or mixed. Conjugation is the overlap of one p-orbital with another across an intervening sigma bond (in transition metals d-orbitals can be involved). A conjugated system has a region of overlapping p-orbitals, bridging the interjacent single bonds. They...
13:58
@DeNiSkA Apparently, you need to be 18 years old to go for icho in malaysia unless you are in interantional school
@DeNiSkA Hmm, you have to have some good imagination on this one.
You know about hybridization?
@IͶΔ yes
sp2 carbons lie in one plane.
Of course, bonds are hybridized, but I think you get what I mean.
@IͶΔ oh! (i think i got what is planarity)
Duh, being on one plane.
We're going through all this pain because the rule of thumb I tell you only works in conjugated planar monocyclic compounds.
So, if a compound is
- planar
- conjugated
- monocyclic
and it has 2n+6 pi electrons (where n is an integer) then it's aromatic.
The 2n+6 rule is called Huckel's rule.
14:03
@IͶΔ Do you know why trans fat is bad for you even though it is unsaturated?
@Simon-Nail-It It's bad because it's unsaturated.
In organic chemistry, Hückel's rule estimates whether a planar ring molecule will have aromatic properties. The quantum mechanical basis for its formulation was first worked out by physical chemist Erich Hückel in 1931. The succinct expression as the 4n+2 rule has been attributed to von Doering (1951), although several authors were using this form at around the same time. A cyclic ring molecule follows Hückel's rule when the number of its π-electrons equals 4n+2 where n is zero or any positive integer, although clearcut examples are really only established for values of n = 0 up to about n = 6...
@IͶΔ Why cis fat is better than trans fat
And I thought unsaturated is better than saturated
thank you @IͶΔ
@Simon-Nail-It There was a paper on this I'm trying to find
Ok iw ait
14:07
@DeNiSkA In polycyclic compounds such as coronene it doesn't work though, even though they're planar, conjugated and cyclic. Be careful.
@Simon-Nail-It No that's totally the other way around
In this case, not generally.
Argh I can't find it.
@IͶΔ great!
It said that trans- fat readily changes into LDL. Or something like that.
@Simon-Nail-It there is no age restriction in India but we need to qualify 3 tests and a camp to appear for IChO, IPhO, IOAA
14:11
@DeNiSkA Apparently the government thinks the people under 18 are not capable in chemistry
@Simon-Nail-It only for chemistry
Not really, bascially everything
We started chemistry when we are 16 years old
and lleft out A LOT of important information
oh! @Simon-Nail-It are you also writing!
Writing what?
IChO
14:15
The paper?
No, are you writing IChO 2016 examination
I am 17
So yeah
And also in governmental school
happy journey to PAKISTAN!
You're going?
14:18
i mean IChO 2016 are going to be held at pakistan!
I know
I keep track of it
I hate when they say I'm underaged so i can't go
i am unlucky! i wrote exam in india and finals are also in india :(
oh
Good luck then
yes! but 1 more stage is left for international level
wait for your good news then
@IͶΔ Thanks
14:22
it means @IͶΔ and you are gonna have same exams (great!)
Just want to let this out, this is the best group i have ever been into.
Nope, if I go to IChO it's gonna be IChO 2017.
@IͶΔ Same
Oh, then
I'M TOTALLY GONNA ROCK YOU YOU HEAR ME
lol!(sounds wonderful)
14:24
@IͶΔ ...
two chemistry nerds
@IͶΔ I'm always a friendly person in competition causing me not that competitive
@DeNiSkA Aren't you one of us
Hi@user36790
No! you both have mastered your subjects.
@user36790 hello!!
@DeNiSkA But chemistry is so big that you can't even master it
@DeNiSkA And also what would you consider yourself then
@Simon-Nail-It when i see IChO papers it is like greek-latin for me, but you two.......
@Simon-Nail-It do you think me as IChO participant?
14:30
Everyone can be anything
user116211
\o/
@DeNiSkA If you come to my country, mostly students(16 and 17 years old) believe atoms have orbits instead of orbitals
And we only believe the Arrhenius principle only, not bronsted-lowry and lewis principle
user116211
@Simon-Nail-It: country?
Malaysia
And also believe zinc is one of the transition metal
user116211
@Simon-Nail-It that's a big problem
14:36
@Simon-Nail-It lol, i am better than those!
When some of the student (which from 16 and 17) complain about this and want to change it, the government says "No, those will be a burden to students. They can learn it afterwards in university"
@Simon-Nail-It hmm!! is this same for physics or only chemistry !
ok let me say what we learn
When 16 years old, we learn force and motion, pressure, heat, and light
When 17 years old, we learn waves, electricity, electromagnetism, electronics and radioactivity
@DeNiSkA Maybe ask me what in the topics?
i was about to..
did you do rigid body dynamics,
Try then
user116211
14:42
There should be proper mathematical background to understand physics....
user116211
So, there should be more priority to maths.
calculus
user116211
I've seen it; experienced it.....
Calculus is in our math
14:43
@DeNiSkA I'm not a nerd, sadly.
@IͶΔ You could be one
@IͶΔ well, you are IChO ...... only for nerds
user116211
We are introduced to kinematics and Newtonian mechanics in std xi but that solely depends on calculus which is introduced in lately ;(
@DeNiSkA stereotypical
@DeNiSkA I strongly disagree
14:44
@user36790 Same
user116211
@IͶΔ yes, me too.
@user36790 Like this?
user116211
manish once discussed about it, I remember
@Deniska we don't know centrifugal and centripedal force
@IͶΔ Wow, haven't gone so deep
user116211
@IͶΔ That's beta function and gamma function and separation of variable techniques,....
user116211
14:45
Well, not that.
Neither have I
That's just a "mathematical background".
user116211
You should start from basic set theory....
@user36790 its smelling you are also a nerd!
user116211
then function on real space.....
user116211
then distinction between complex space ....
user116211
14:47
And finally for the chemistry.....
@DeNiSkA What nerd I can call you
user116211
vector space and linear algebra....
@Simon-Nail-It capitalization nerd
user116211
which is must for understanding QM.
@IͶΔ Any proof?
14:48
understanding QM? Are you serious?
user116211
@IͶΔ o.O
@Simon-Nail-It Yes
@user36790 Did you understand it
user116211
shed of the popular pop-sci myth that QM is mysterious.
14:49
@user36790 have you read "300 years of gravitation"
user116211
shed of the popular pop-sci myth that QM is mysterious.
user116211
it's conceivable
@Wildcat EMERGENCY! Someone is trying to understand QM.
@user36790 For varying definitions of conceivable.
@IͶΔ that is my profile
user116211
@IͶΔ He is the master of computational chemistry.
14:51
@DeNiSkA Well that pretty much proof it
user116211
He actually made me understand MOT.
You don't have anything that could represent electron IRL, so you can't possibly conceive it IMO.
user116211
And also resonance.
user116211
@IͶΔ huh?
What you're making "conceive" mean is being able to grasp some theory.
Some formulas and playing with them.
That's not called conceiving.
user116211
14:52
@IͶΔ yes?
user116211
@IͶΔ No!
@Simon-Nail-It i don't like answering in physics, they always downvote you, because they need a huge explaination
user116211
@DeNiSkA ;(
@user36790 I'm explaining why I think you can't understand QM.
No one can.
@DeNiSkA And also question cuz the all site seems to cover everything
14:53
@Simon-Nail-It yes! but mathematics SE is awesome
@DeNiSkA If you two didn't get the joke by now I shouldn't spoil it by revealing it
user116211
@IͶΔ You just give a shot in reading Feynman III as an intro, then you ask yourself whether QM is really unconceivable
@user36790 You still don't get what I'm talking about.
user116211
HW.
@DeNiSkA I go the math SE to just find some hard question and try to do it
14:54
@IͶΔ hehe!!
user116211
Math is garbage:(
You make understanding to mean something else.
user116211
hmmm....
@Simon-Nail-It this is called nerd-ness!
@user36790 Not really
@DeNiSkA Then what should I do? spam the question with random stuff?
14:56
5
Q: Inertia Vs Momentum

Simon-Nail-ItAt my recent lesson on kinematics, my teacher taught about inertia and momentum. This is what she said. Inertia: a characteristic of an object that resists changes to its state of motion. Momentum: The resistance of an object to a change in its state of motion. My problem is what is the differ...

If I get a score of 20 in an exam, does it mean I understand the topic of the exam? I don't think so.
only geniuses ask this question @Simon-Nail-It
This is getting a bit philosophical, and I'm running more and more out of mood, so I'll leave it at that.
@IͶΔ Ok bye
What?
14:58
@DeNiSkA Why? It suddenly come out of my mind and my teacher can't answer it
@DeNiSkA Cuz she says no one have ask that
What?
What what?
@Simon-Nail-It really they say , like that?
@DeNiSkA If the teacher is close to you
@Simon-Nail-It Nothing, crappy internet.
@Simon-Nail-It You have to be thankful that the teacher doesn't sell you gibberish instead.
15:00
@DeNiSkA If not, they say it's not in the syllabus or go find yourself
That's such a square teacher.
@Simon-Nail-It haha!
@DeNiSkA I'm quite close to my chem and physics teacher tho
@DeNiSkA But not my bio teacher
I despise mine.
Biology teachers here are arrogant by nature though. Most of them are.
i am close to only my mathematics teacher and in all else i don't listen to any lecture!
Biology: I HATE it
15:03
Not listening is a problem.
You need to be a good listener if you want to get good marks.
@IͶΔ lol!
BTW did you get a hang of planar aromaticity?
@DeNiSkA We have two type of math her, additional math or modern math. I love my modern math teacher which is my neighbour, but my additional math teacher is just stupid and act smart
@IͶΔ if a genius teach, there is no chance of misunderstanding!
@IͶΔ Work for history
15:05
I like our history teacher. He knows and thinks and I love that kind of man.
@Simon-Nail-It what is that additional maths?(never heard)
I love his critical thinking.
Something like further math
i see!!
@IͶΔ My history teacher just says "Remember what I thought you, do your exercise and take note REPEATLY!!"
15:07
*taught
@Simon-Nail-It after the age of 15-16 a child can choose his subjects in India! and this is awesome
@IͶΔ Not a really good person in language
Generally, all my teachers are good except this semester's math and biology teachers.
@DeNiSkA We choose 'packages' instead of subjects
@Simon-Nail-It Don't need to be. Be a good communicator.
The only medium here is writing. Do it effectively.
15:08
@IͶΔ I hope I can
And hell, "thought" takes more keystrokes.
@Simon-Nail-It yes! same we do but 1 package consists of at-least 5 subjects
@DeNiSkA We have 5 compulsory subject
@DeNiSkA But the rest are decided by last year exam result
@Hippalectryon \o
15:10
@IͶΔ huuuge exams in 30 days :(((
@Simon-Nail-It totally how many subjects?
9 or 10
I used to have 10 but now I have 9
@Simon-Nail-It woah!!!!
My huge exams are in 3 months.
@Hippalectryon What kind of a three-faced alien are ya?
My huge exams are in 3 months.
But I wouldn't want to break the year-consecutive record.
year-consecutive record ?
15:12
@Simon-Nail-It me is having only 5
> visited 448 days, 297 consecutive
Oh :-)))
Meta.chem is boring again.
@DeNiSkA Malay Language, English Language, Modern Math, Additional Math, Biology, Physics, Chemistry, History, Moral (Weird right?), and the additional subject but not important( Chinese Language[cuz I'm a Chinese], PE and Cival education
@IͶΔ Why?
@Simon-Nail-It I wish we had morale instead of theology.
user116211
15:14
Modern Math vs Additional Math?
@user36790 Additional math is more harder than modern math
@IͶΔ Unless you know that we need to memorize 36 moral values, 36 of the definition and 72 key words EXACTLY THE SAME AS THE TEXTBOOK WITH NO CHANGING OF WORDS!
@user36790 I think they give daily supplements of Euler brain in Additional math.
@Simon-Nail-It What country ?
@Simon-Nail-It Pfft, do you even lift
Malaysia
@IͶΔ Nah it's more towards calculus and harder (a bit) stuff
@IͶΔ I waste too much time to memorize History
@DeNiSkA Why
15:19
@Simon-Nail-It ignore that!! (sorry)
@DeNiSkA It's implanted to my brain now!!
@IͶΔ And it's either islamic education or moral education
@Simon-Nail-It my sir says when someone don't like subject much, it becomes harder , so you told it is hard therefore it means you don't like it!
an implication isn't an equivalence :P @DeNiSkA
@DeNiSkA Nah, I complain to release stress. Actually i like the subject
@Hippalectryon Agree
@DeNiSkA Beside I hate biology and history and moral and malay language
@Simon-Nail-It list is too small
15:24
Haha
@DeNiSkA Getting from many conclusions to many conclusions is a bit risky.
@IͶΔ Life lesson
@IͶΔ ok! thats why i told him to ignore the message
it hate biology, history, geography, civics , Urdu, hindi, english............list tends to infinity
@DeNiSkA Luckily I don't have geography
@DeNiSkA For us, it's either geography or additional math
@Simon-Nail-It hahaha! but now i am free from all that stuff
15:28
ok
I'm actually on holiday now
now my subjects are physics , C++ , c h e m i s t r y, english, Mahs
@Simon-Nail-It lucky!!
@DeNiSkA How's the holiday distributed the whole year inIndia
@Simon-Nail-It No!
day after tomorrow my chem exam!!:(
@DeNiSkA No?
@DeNiSkA Good luck for that
@Simon-Nail-It No is reply for that above question!
15:32
@DeNiSkA No holiday then
Well that's harsh
yes! holidays are there but only for 1-2 months
Our holidays are 1 week in March, 2 weeks in June, 1 week in September, 1 1/4 month in December, all after exam. Then we have the special occasion holidays which is the 1 week holiday for Chinese new year, 2 week for malay new year(Hari raya aidilfitri), 1 week for indian new year(Diwali or we called Deepawali), I day of in the indepence day of malaysia (31 Aug)
And some minor holidays
you guys have lot of holidays!
Sometime it's just too much
15:44
@IͶΔ WHERE?!
A little late to the party, but anyway. :D
@Wildcat "little late"
Bye!! everyone....
@Wildcat \o
AFK taking a shower
@IͶΔ o/
15:50
Don't make me come back and say "I left you for thirty minutes".
16:08
Bye i going to sleep now bye
16:59
@Hippalectryon Your what?
@IͶΔ O_o was supposed to say "my eyes"
Aha.
Well, the pictures are nice.
they are nice now
thanks to Loong
but before
my eyes were bleeding XD
qdgvjqgjsh --[Loong]-> :D
Actually, it wasn't that eye-jarring.
Maybe brain-jarring
I've seen worse.
I've edited worse. ᕙ(⇀‸↼‶)ᕗ
17:35
man b googlin' bout d micelles — ron 31 mins ago
+1 to @ron
2
@IͶΔ Are we supposed to downvote "bad" homework questions after flagging them ?
@Hippalectryon Voting doesn't have a "supposed to". It has "should"s.
You should upvote good content that you see. And downvote bad content. <- That's about the only official thing about voting
Now we can analyze how high rep users vote, and come up with more practical and constructive voting habits.
I imagine some higher rep users downvote bad questions along with closing them.
That's OK.
I imagine some of them (like me) don't usually downvote after close voting.
Which is still OK if there's no dire need for downvotes.
But, for example, somewhere like SO, or math.SE, or maybe even physics.SE, the "should downvote" gets stronger. The amount of user contribution to those sites are high, and good content gets lost easily if not voted accordingly.
@IͶΔ Also, the comments say it's a duplicate, but I can't really find a question that answers it already chemistry.stackexchange.com/questions/48083/… any idea ?
17:50
@Hippalectryon Hmm, I think I've seen at least one question exactly touching that issue.
@IͶΔ I thought so too, but impossible to find it :(
18:31
Happy nowruz to all! (even though you're not celebrating it)
3
nowruz ?
Nowruz (Persian: Nowruz – نوروز‎‎; [nouˈɾuːz]; literally "New Day") is the name of the Iranian New Year, also known as the Persian New Year, which is celebrated worldwide by Iranian peoples, along with some other ethno-linguistic groups, as the beginning of the New Year. It has been celebrated for over 3,000 years in the Balkans, the Black Sea Basin, the Caucasus, Central Asia, and Western Asia. It marks the first day of Farvardin in the Iranian calendar. Nowruz is the day of the astronomical vernal equinox, and marks the beginning of spring in the Northern Hemisphere. It usually occurs on March...
ooh :D happy nowruz then !
ron
ron
18:47
anyone home?
@ron Yeah!
How're you doing? Long time no chat
ron
ron
Yes, it's been a while. I'm doing well, how about you?
I'm doing great, tomorrow's our new year.
ron
ron
Yes, I noticed the Nowruz discussion. Happy New Year (tomorrow)!
Thanks!
ron
ron
18:51
How are things going in school?
What are you doing these days?
@ron As usual.
Nothing specially thrilling.
yesterday, by IͶΔ
I just won the first stage of national chem olympiad. Next stage is in April 27.
ron
ron
Congratulations! That sounds pretty significant. Yet you say nothing especially thrilling.
Well, I knew I'd win before the results came out.
So it's 3-months-ago thrilling not yesterday-thrilling. :)
ron
ron
What geography does the first stage cover, a part of Iran?
Not geography, just pure chem.
And I didn't even study for it.
ron
ron
18:54
yes, I mean wher were the competitors from?
Iran.
As a whole I mean.
If I win the second stage, I'll win at least a bronze medal.
ron
ron
So you will be part of the group representing Iran in the next stage. That is special. How many stages are there?
And at most a gold medal and entering the international team.
@ron No no, that's after the third stage.
In the second stage 40 people win.
From the whole country.
ron
ron
Ah, I see.
In the third stage, 8 people will win a gold medal and then they'll go to IChO.
@ron Told you, not thrilling yet. :)
How's stuff going in your end of the world?
ron
ron
18:56
Were there any organic questions in the first stage?
We just had a big snow, but a lot has melted already.
@ron Yes.
@ron Are you a cold-ish or warm-ish person?
The organochem questions weren't that hard though. Some of the resonance-related ones were good.
ron
ron
Warm, not warm-ish. It can be too cold for me, but not too warm.
Mhm
BTW I finally beat you in the review queues. :P
ron
ron
I remember that your parents are pharmacists. Would you like to follow in that occupation?
02:00 - 19:0019:00 - 21:00

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