The Periodic Table

NotNicolaou

00:00

HEy hey

getafix

How goes? I've been away for a while..!!

Feeds

07:38

0

Q: What is the scope of atomic-radius?

I came across a question about ionic radii. I was hesitant to apply the tag atomic-radius because the usage only indicates (no wiki either) A measure of the size of its atoms, usually the mean or typical distance from the center of the nucleus to the boundary of the surrounding "cloud" of ele...

Martin - マーチン

09:11

we really need to tackle that off-topic closing stuff (homework and related)

IͶΔ

09:45

@Martin-マーチン What stuff?

@WYSIWYG Ours? I feel proud of myself.

Martin - マーチン

well you know... the policy and the trivial questions

we don't really have a handle on that

IͶΔ

Uh, did we use to have a handle on anything?

Martin - マーチン

no

we don't really have a handle on anything

getafix

lol.

I'd like to contribute..

IͶΔ

@Martin-マーチン Well then

getafix

09:47

How can I help..I finally have some time off from school..and I can do THINGS!!

IͶΔ

@getafix To unhandling?

Martin - マーチン

then ... well ಠ_ಠ

getafix

either way..

handling, unhandling

anythings fine

capping, bottling i can do that too

IͶΔ

So @Mart the problem is writing the damn post.

I'm all ears and ideas but I can't just get them written.

Martin - マーチン

well... is that the problem?

i feel like we don't yet have consensus

IͶΔ

09:49

One problem is that we don't even know what regular site mod-helpers think.

I'm sure @Mith would like to close the universe as a duplicate.

Martin - マーチン

15

Q: What *is* a 'homework question'?

This is going to be a bit of a long post, please bear with me. (And no TL;DR's ಠ_ಠ) A decaffeinating story Once upon a meta post, a legend from the realm of Manly soil rose and said: Let's decide on a homework policy. His voice echoed, and other heroes followed. But there were problems$\,\ldots...

discussion homework

CopperKettle

Good afternoon, Muhammad!

IͶΔ

@CopperKettle Afternoon!

@Martin-マーチン Kinda stuck . . . I have no idea what I should do next.

Martin - マーチン

i have not had the time to go through everything and make up my mind

i just know that our current policy specifies kind of every question and none at the same time

also i don't want a policy just for homework questions

IͶΔ

For one thing, I actually wanted to get off the site a little bit and do more studying.

Martin - マーチン

09:52

i want one that covers stuff that can be easily found in an encyclopaedia

IͶΔ

@Martin-マーチン I think the biggest part that needs to be addressed is that people are closing basic stuff as homework.

Address that in your meta post.

Martin - マーチン

@IͶΔ well, do that, by all means, real life first

IͶΔ

@Martin-マーチン Bingo

@Martin-マーチン Wait.

I just suddenly felt like writing a meta post.

Martin - マーチン

well that takes so much time to think about

answer mine first!

IͶΔ

Answer your what?

Martin - マーチン

10:00

my meta post

getafix

I am pretty sure I've been guilty of asking "homework" question in the past..but, I guess/hope I learned. And now that I see how they go against what this site is/apsires to be..I can see why they can be annoying. I'd like to put a few thoughts down on the meta too..I've never participated in a meta discussion, so exciting!!

WYSIWYG

@IͶΔ yes yes..

IͶΔ

@getafix They don't.

@Martin-マーチン What meta post?

OH MY GOD

@Mart wrote a meta post.

Martin - マーチン

...

IͶΔ

@getafix Homework questions aren't bad by-design.

Martin - マーチン

10:09

homework questions that comply with the policy are great...

IͶΔ

Well, imagine that there's an infamous town where you get robbed a lot.

Martin - マーチン

unfortunately there are more that don't comply

getafix

I get what you mean..

IͶΔ

Does it mean all of the people in the town are robbers?

Martin - マーチン

and they are hard to clean up

getafix

10:10

More about the mood the question..

IͶΔ

So it does get a bad name, but there are very good homework questions.

getafix

Like just because it was a HW assigment, doesn't mean it is automatically garbage..

IͶΔ

Yes.

getafix

But then clearly "How to do some random stoichiometric calculation" is BAD

IͶΔ

My homework question is the best one ever.

3

A: Prevent pointless questions

You can't prevent people from asking questions 1. That goes against the philosophy of this site. Here's what the system does: Guidance. It shows you a thousand links that can help you: A how to ask page. And a bunch of sidebars with even more links about potentially similar questions: Here...

getafix

10:13

But then a lot of people who visit this site don't really know how to ask a good hw question..

Martin - マーチン

that's okay, we don't expect that

getafix

A resource which perhaps lists a couple of what is generally considered to be a good hw question..and why they are good would be handy

Martin - マーチン

it's the people who argue with us that ruin it for everyone

getafix

so if you see a bad hw question..you can link them up to that...

and be like this is what a good hw question look like..this guy did this, this and this..maybe you can edit your question and do the same

Martin - マーチン

the current hw policy has a list with good and bad questions

it really is the people, that just say: "but that is no homework"

because that are the people who don't bother to read the link that they are given in the first place

getafix

10:17

Oh i see.

IͶΔ

Jul 29 '15 at 18:17, by inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

You guys make alot of typo in your spelling too and yet you keep telling me to edit my question. Lol im not familiar with this site and this was my very first question. I just asked my friend whats a good website to get help on homework. Yes This is a homework question. And this question is off of a context of a book and thats how the question looks exactly. — Adriana Wajoswki 3 hours ago

getafix

umm okay..haha. I can see your problem

I feel bad for you guys haha

Martin - マーチン

@IͶΔ jep exactly something like this

IͶΔ

And in addition I'd like to throw the name under the bus. If anyone comes up with a better, more general title, please don't hold back. I am a little bit tired of this: "But this is not homework." "It may not be homework for you, but on this page it is still considered to be homework. Please read the article from the link." "Y U no halp????" etc. pp. — Martin - マーチン ♦ Nov 20 '15 at 3:17

Martin - マーチン

@getafix that's not necessary... it just sometimes gets tiring dealing with it

and it's also about the problem that it's not really that good explained in the first place

getafix

10:20

But then beside closings their questions, i don't really have any ideas on what you can do with such people..like if someone is adamant on being a fool..then..can't really don anything about it..

Martin - マーチン

if i read the homework policy, i probably still would not really know what to do

getafix

I'd like to rack my brains with you guys..i really love this site, don't pop in as often..but still.

Martin - マーチン

Well like i stated, the name of the policy is the first problem

IͶΔ

What about "the 'exercise' policy"?

Martin - マーチン

and if we clearly state what kind of questions will be closed, then anyone who argues can be sent to that link over, and over again

and i don't have to feel bad

getafix

10:24

okay, yeah.."homework" quite broadly, if not perfectly covers the questions types you want to select against. A better title would, however, be a good idea..

Martin - マーチン

The "No. No. No. No. NO!" policy.

getafix

How about just having a general "Questions" policy..something which dictates these kind of questions are good and we'd love to have them..and like you just said..these ones are a big fat NO

broad and less prone to misinterpretation unlike homework imho

IͶΔ

@getafix And would that be a 200-page manual?

Martin - マーチン

@getafix welcome to the jungle of misinterpretation and the meta...

when you start talking meta about meta.

IͶΔ

@Martin-マーチン I will need to misinterpret that.

Martin - マーチン

10:32

I propose that we rename The Periodic Table to meta.meta.chemistry.stackexchange.com

IͶΔ

:O @Mart just called misinterpretation a jungle! Flags as offensive

Martin - マーチン

you have a problem with jungles?

IͶΔ

Jungles are jungly.

Martin - マーチン

tru:

IͶΔ

@Martin-マーチン Here's an annoying GIF:

Martin - マーチン

10:40

I like it

IͶΔ

Yay

Martin - マーチン

okidoki... ima prolly be afk till monday ... mayhaps a little peek on fridays

have fun. be nice.

IͶΔ

Don't I ignore the last recommendation, @IͶΔ.

:O

magical-chemistry

@Mart is now an apparition.

THIS CHAT IS TOTALLY HAUNTED . . . RUN FOR YOUR LIVES

getafix

10:58

haha lol

CopperKettle

16:45

In the ozone molecule, do we have a kind of dative bond spread over two bonds?

I mean, the central O donates two electrons for bondings, and hence has the charge +1.

CopperKettle

17:00

Is carbon bivalent in carbon monoxide (CO)?

How come Oxygen gives two of its electrons to Carbon, if Oxygen is more electronegative?

For some reason, the Russian name for carbon monoxide is "carbon monoxide (II)", and the Roman numeral usually denotes valency.

But it clearly has three bondings with Oxygen, so why (II)?

user116211

@CopperKettle Urgggg... the balls in the ring; aren't they past-perfect?

CopperKettle

@user36790 ?

user116211

Just meant to say you are following Rutherford model; this is dead-cold.

CopperKettle

But it must be okay for getting to understand it schematically.

I know about the MO theory etc.

user116211

@CopperKettle Then it's a sin to use this if you already know MOT :)

user116211

17:10

At-least VB theory is handy.

CopperKettle

> Whoever is without sin among you, let him be the first to cast an electrone at him.

user116211

@CopperKettle: Huh??

CopperKettle

It's from the Holy Scripture.

IͶΔ

17:56

@CopperKettle No.

We have resonance though.

@CopperKettle Don't underestimate this little guy.

CO is a very complicated molecule.

And the bond order is three, so I'm not sure how your valency will be defined.

Feeds

18:16

0

Q: Policy on questions in basic mediums

Let's sit down and have a talk. Recently, we're closing a lot. 1 A good portion of the "offending" posts have been questions that either touch very basic concepts of chemistry, or are ones that you can get an answer to by inserting in a magical machine named Google and watching the page load. ...

discussion allowed-questions scope

IͶΔ

@Feeds That would be me.

CC @Mart

CopperKettle

19:55

Does this mean that SO2 grabs an Oxygen out of every second OH(-) group present in the solution?

IͶΔ

@CopperKettle Not sure, but it means that SO2 is oxidized.

I mean, what does "grab" mean?

CopperKettle

@IͶΔ SO2 is oxidized?

IͶΔ

Yes.

CopperKettle

But it ceases to exist as SO2, so maybe it's not oxidation but just "grabbing" of an Oxygen?

The oxidation of S remains the same, +4

IͶΔ

Oh right.

I dunno why my chemistry's just finished right now.

CopperKettle

20:06

(0:

Well, maybe it does oxidize here. When something adds an Oxygen, we call it oxidation..

IͶΔ

Nope.

'tis just an acid-base reaction.

CopperKettle

But in an acid-base reaction, an acid gives an H(+) ion in exchange of the metal atom. SO2 has nothing to give.

> the sulfur oxides are the acid anhydrides of common acids.

And what does that explain..

IͶΔ

@CopperKettle Acid base theories vary.

SO2: acid. NaOH: Base. And a strong one.

CopperKettle

An acid is something that can grab an electron or donate an H+.

But since the oxidation of S stays the same, it has grabbed no electrons.

And since it had no H(+), it donated no proton.

IͶΔ

@CopperKettle The oxidation states don't vary in acid-base reactions.

CopperKettle

20:19

> When an acid and a base are placed together, they react to neutralize the acid and base properties, producing a salt. The H(+) cation of the acid combines with the OH(-) anion of the base to form water.

But SO2 had no H(+) on it.

IͶΔ

@CopperKettle So it's not a bronsted acid. Yeah.

CopperKettle

Maybe it quickly grabs an H+ and an Oxygen out of the solution, pretends to be a full-fledged acid for a second, and then neutralizes some nearby OH(-)

IͶΔ

Well, what if I'm wrong.

I'm a bit tired and my eyes are red/

CopperKettle

I too need to sleep. (0:

IͶΔ

I might be

just

wrong.

CopperKettle

20:21

Anyway, you helped me understand something, thanks! I know that I'll need to read up this.

Acid–base reaction

An acid–base reaction is a chemical reaction that occurs between an acid and a base. Several theoretical frameworks provide alternative conceptions of the reaction mechanisms and their application in solving related problems; these are called acid–base theories, for example, Brønsted–Lowry acid–base theory. Their importance becomes apparent in analyzing acid–base reactions for gaseous or liquid species, or when acid or base character may be somewhat less apparent. The first of these concepts was provided by the French chemist Antoine Lavoisier, around 1776. == Acid–base definitions == =...

Buck up, shut up, and read up.

Or, shut up, read up and buck up. (0:

IͶΔ

Back up, lock up, rock up.

answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081228045805AAt7pVj

Oh wait. Forget that.

@Cop here's some chemguide: chemguide.co.uk/inorganic/period3/oxidesh2o.html

CopperKettle

@IͶΔ Thank you! I read that through a week ago. I probably need to re-read.

Good-night, Muhammad!

IͶΔ

> Sulphur dioxide will also react directly with bases such as sodium hydroxide solution. If sulphur dioxide is bubbled through sodium hydroxide solution, sodium sulphite solution is formed first followed by sodium hydrogensulphite solution when the sulphur dioxide is in excess.

Note: Sodium sulphite is also called sodium sulphate(IV). Sodium hydrogensulphite is also sodium hydrogensulphate(IV) or sodium bisulphite.
Notice that the equations for these reactions are different from the phosphorus examples. In this case, we are reacting the oxide directly with the sodium hydroxide, becaus…

And blame chemguide for that weird space.

It's supposed to be some images.

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