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07:12
@ChemProfMatt Hullo; welcome to the Table!
What? Nobody pinged me?
NNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!ONEONEONE!!!!!!!!!!!
> Likewise, chromium has 4 d-electrons, only 1 short of having a half-filled d-orbital, so it steals an electron from the s-orbital, allowing chromium to have 5 d-electrons. Sounds fishy.
Best. Comment. Ever.
@Won't It's on Skeptics, they are probably busy looking for research to challenge his claims... — Yannis Apr 19 '12 at 22:33
Why would an atom need to half-fill its d-orbital? 5 d-electrons means that one slot is only half-filled.
@CopperKettle Stealing is illegal.
@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. Maybe it's not on the atomic level.
07:19
@CopperKettle Being half-filled feels relaxing, IOW half filled orbitals bring in more stability.
So a p^3, a d^5 and an f^7 are more stable.
I thought that all atoms aspire to have orbitals filled.
@CopperKettle For this level, you only need to know that.
Honestly, I've learned that quantum isn't nothing to be messing with.
I remember the quantum numbers (n, l, m) and that atoms aspire to have the lowest n+l combination.
07:20
And even explanations as riveting as detective stories don't help much.
Okay, I'll remember that a d^5 is to be wished for.
@CopperKettle Do you know about the Hund's and the Afbau rule/principles?
@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. Not yet! I've been reading about Cu(OH)2 and wondered how on earth could it latch on to two (OH) groups, and that lead me to that page.
I'll better learn first things first. (0:
Thanks for the hint!
Be back later!
Hello!
Hey @Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.
Hullo all
07:27
Where were you?
@CopperKettle Oh. Think of it as one Cu^2+, and two OH-'s.
@TanMath Bathroom
Bathroom™
So why the big hello all?
That's my template answer to the non-question "hello/hullo/hi/howdy/hey/yo/oy/o//\o//\o/".
@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. OK...
(esp. when I'm too lazy to ping the guy(s))
07:32
You are lazy
No, I am not lazu. Everyone is lazy in a certain period of their life.
You said you are lazy...
I didn't say I'm lazu.
Yeah! So? You said you were lazy!
You are lazy
Lazy ≠ Lazu
Lazu may refer to several villages in Romania: Lazu, a village in Agigea Commune, Constanţa County Lazu, a village in Terpezița Commune, Dolj County Lazu, a village in Malovăț Commune, Mehedinţi County Lazu, a village in Gherghești Commune, Vaslui County Lazu may refer to village in India Lazu, Arunachal Pradesh, a village in Tirap district of Arunachal Pradesh in India. == See also == Lazu River (disambiguation) Laz (disambiguation)...
07:35
@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. I know... How is this relevant?
hahaha... @TanMath you're in the ina trap ;)
good afternoon everybody o/
@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. not really funny...I corrected it!
@Martin-マーチン afternoon?
Hey @Mart; Now I have to shoot you since you spoiled my plans.
early evening?
07:37
̿̿ ̿̿ ̿’̿’̵͇̿̿з=༼ ▀̿̿Ĺ̯̿̿▀̿ ̿ ༽
Late morning?
nah
noon has well past by now
@TanMath We're just playing around, it's not supposed to be funny, it's supposed to be fun . . . at least . . . for one of the sides.
@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. ̿̿ ̿̿ ̿’̿’̵͇̿̿з=༼ ▀̿̿Ĺ̯̿̿▀̿ ̿ ༽
@TanMath ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽▬▬ι═══════ﺤ
@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. I knew the joke
.I kinda was playing along
07:38
See my previous previous comment.
@TanMath So what are the objections?
Uh, just change the subject.
I'm gonna go study something. Be back in 1<x<2 hours.
@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. no!!!
Have fun with @Mart.
Bye!
@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. you push me with @Mart?
07:41
happy studying ina!
You mean Muhammad!
When does @ManishEarth come?
Have not seen him here recently...
Anything to discuss?
08:32
@TanMath sorry... i was a bit busy
 
1 hour later…
09:42
@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. Yes, but Cu has all of its d-orbitals filled to the brim...
@CopperKettle Well, full orbital is better than half filled, and half-filled is better than not half-filled.
So in order to fill its last orbital, the 4s, it needs to connect only one (OH) group.
It manages somehow to connect a whole of two groups.
@CopperKettle The problem is the lack of numbers.
We are only going qualitative here.
An atom does everything to reach lower potential energy.
So Cu may acquire +1 or +2 oxidation states/charge/formal charge/whatever, whenever it likes to.
It would need to chuck away one or two electrons for that.
For one thing, bonding orbitals are a thing and they're totally different from nonbonding orbitals @Cop.
It might be an oversimplication to say that Copper loses electrons and hydroxide gains them.
09:58
I said nothing about non-bonding orbitals.. I just wondered how it could connect to two (OH) groups.. Maybe Oxygen attracts electrons through strong electronegativity.
I'm jotting down 'uncertain points' in a copybook, and I've quite a few now. (0:
@CopperKettle This is the problem with this topic.
What really is happening is too complicated to comprehend, the models and calculations are PhD material, and all students are left with is oversimplifications and qualitative statements @Cop.
So it's just poison for curious minds Cu Kettle.
But the teachers explain to the students that Cuprum has a 'strange' oxidation range.
I'll read up some more. (0:
In the evening. (0:
Bye!
 
6 hours later…
16:07
Psst. Anyone there?
Jan
Jan
@TanMath Yeah. In my defense: I didn't ask for an upvote to a specific post and it was > 60 % joking. No-one has complained about that here yet, so …
HI @Breaking @ina (@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.) @whoeverelsewantstofeelgreeted.
One question @Mods (@Mart?) I got -30 for User was removed today … Can we gain any interesting gossip from that? =D
16:38
@Jan What does that even mean?
Jan
Jan
@pentavalentcarbon That a user got deleted and that all their votes got reversed.
Well that sucks for everyone...I'm assuming you have to do something pretty bad to get your account deleted.
Jan
Jan
Last orbital: A man was assassinated from behind by some T-handled sword-ish thing. He is now lying flat on his face. (CC @Mart)
2
 
1 hour later…
17:57
@Jan Eh, do I want to be greeted?
@Jan Actually, I likened it to a cute toy plane.
Jan
Jan
@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. That works, too =D
Speaks volumes about what our spirits looks like.
Jan
Jan
Just because I can be complexed by cyanide D=
My mom told me not to judge people by what they can form a complex with.
2
@Cop's reading about octet. Oh crud.
Something's @Breaking. Runs away
18:24
@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. Yep, still musing about that Cu and about that (OH)2. (0:
Jan
Jan
@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. Octets are good =3
So much answerz today. I feel tired.
Well, I need to answer something on chem/
I really don't give answers these days. :(
Jan
Jan
*just remembered I now need to star the message that asks for upboating the chat ad*
18:44
It will only take me two millennia.
Jan
Jan
@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. In that case I would advise you to turn into a different molecule; palladium(0) species are not stable enough to survive that long.
@Jan I am NOT a normal tetrakis.
Jan
Jan
(But who's talking. It's not like an unsubstituted porphyrin be much more stable towards oxygen attacks …)
What makes you abnormal?
I'm radioinactive, which is the opposite end of radioactive, with "stable" in the middle.
So no mere mortals — certainly no puny oxidizing or reducing agents or acids or bases or electrophiles or nucleophiles or ponies or unicorns — can even touch me.
Random question: Is there a way to red-shift the emission spectrum of a fluorophore?
Or, alternatively, blue-shift the absorption spectrum of a molecule?
18:52
@Jan knows.
I don't do spectro. Not yet.
Not yet, are you in a chem program?
No, but I study myself.
Jan
Jan
@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. No @Jan doesn't.
@Jan doesn't do spectroscopy outside NMR.
Consider a fluorescence resonance energy transfer (FRET) system. You need the donor emission spectrum to overlap with the acceptor absorption spectrum. But they don't. How fix that? I can't think of anything. It should be possible to lower the emission energy with a filter, but you can't put a filter in-between the donor and acceptor, which are separated by something like 50 Å. So, can you make a chemical change to the donor or acceptor that change the spectra in a desirable manner? Dunno.
19:09
I don't fret.
I don't think anyone in this chat frets.
Unless @Breaking does, but that may be unlikely.
An auxochrome (Greek αὐξάνειν auxánein: "to increase" and χρῶμα chrōma: "colour") is a group of atoms attached to a chromophore which modifies the ability of that chromophore to absorb light. They themselves fail to produce the colour; but when present along with the chromophores in an organic compound intensifies the colour of the chromogen. Examples include the hydroxyl group (-OH), the amino group (-NH2), the aldehyde group (-CHO), and the methyl mercaptan group (-SMe). An auxochrome is a functional group of atoms with nonbonded electrons when attached to a chromophore, alters both the wavelength...
Jan
Jan
@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. Seems like @IUPAC knows xD
I forgot @Loong Sensei is jack of all trades and everything trades and trades' mom.
Jan
Jan
If there is a gold version of Generalist, @IUPAC is predestined to get it? ;)
19:16
@Jan it's called the Google Badge.
@CopperKettle Yeah so?
Jan
Jan
@Loong O father Wiki and aunt Google …
Make it quick @Cop; I'm about to go to bed.
@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. So, counting valence electrons in Cu, we have only one.
Because all d-subshells are filled.
O_o
OK.
Though my textbook used another definition.
Jan
Jan
@CopperKettle Which is why copper(I) compounds are so prevalent.
@Jan Yes, but why then Cu(OH)2 exists at all? It clearly does exist. I'm not very knowledgeable..
Jan
Jan
@CopperKettle Yeah, that is a non-octet compound. It is paramagnetic, i.e. it has unpaired electrons.
@CopperKettle Because abiding by octet or any stupid rule like that isn't a must.
Thank you! (googles 'paramagnetic')
19:25
That is, the most concise answer to your question, is sadly a boring "just because".
Jan
Jan
The real answer is:
@CopperKettle STICK TO MO, I tell ya
@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. What is MO? Molecular Orbitals?
Jan
Jan
> Because oxygen atoms are strong enough to draw away another electron from copper, making copper(II) stable.
@CopperKettle Jes
Jan
Jan
19:26
And in molecular orbital considerations, you will see that there are only fully-populated or semi-populated energy levels, making the entire thing okay.
@Jan Thanks!
@Jan Or indeed: "stable enough to exist in noticeable amounts"
Jan
Jan
Put copper(II) in a solution with iodide, and they will react: $\ce{2 Cu^2+ + 2 I- -> 2Cu+ + I2}$
Then maybe this question should be reopened and someone should explain this peculiarity.
Jan
Jan
@CopperKettle I think no, because the two questions are asking for the same thing. The question you linked did not ask whether copper(II) exists or anything, it just asks for the ground state of uncharged copper atoms.
19:28
Hullo @ScienceIsMyLife.; you need a further 7 reputation points to be granted the privilege to chat in public SE chatrooms.
@Jan But maybe the guy saw Cu(OH) or CuS and thought "why?". And the viewcount on that question is 1000. It would be nice to have an explanation to field all those who wonder about the same thing.
Jan
Jan
@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. Copper(I) oxide degrades to copper(II) oxide in moist air according to Wikipedia, so no, copper(II) oxide is more stable.
@Jan That doesn't negate what I said.
Jan
Jan
@CopperKettle But then it's a case of the X-Y problem, more or less. Ask for X and you will get an answer for X, even if what you need is the answer to Y.
What I said was just being "lawyery".
Jan
Jan
19:31
Okay, I shall not argue with lawyers. At least not until the dick from the webshop gives me my money back D=
@CopperKettle This is not ELL and people don't imagine what the OP is asking about.
@Jan Okay. Anyway, thank you for the explanation. That question was bugging me. I mused about the electronegativity difference, but did not deem it big enough to pull a whole electron to O.
@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. Heh.
Jan
Jan
@CopperKettle You're welcome *bows*
@CopperKettle In this stuff, you can always reach the conclusion by saying "but the electronegativities allows that".
19:36
@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. I see. I'm googling for Cu(III), because my Mendeleev Table indicates that Cu can even have the valency of III.
@CopperKettle *can even haz
> However Cu(III) compounds are rare in chemistry in general and until recently organocopper(III) species have been elusive. In 2007 the first spectroscopic evidence was obtained for the involvement of Cu(III) in the conjugate addition of the Gilman reagent to an enone
@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. thanks!
Jan
Jan
Copper is a chemical element with symbol Cu (from Latin: cuprum) and atomic number 29. It is a soft, malleable and ductile metal with very high thermal and electrical conductivity. A freshly exposed surface of pure copper has a reddish-orange color. It is used as a conductor of heat and electricity, as a building material, and as a constituent of various metal alloys. Copper is found as a pure metal in nature, and this was the source of the first metal to be used by humans, ca. 8,000 BC; it was the first metal to be smelted from its ore, ca. 5,000 BC; it was the first metal to be cast into a shape...
You're welcome
@CopperKettle Poor Cu, he gave in after they tortured him.
Jan
Jan
I thought I remembered a copper(III) somewhere in a transition metal catalysed reaction (but I have forgotten where).
@IUPAC will know xD
19:39
@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. (0:
Organocopper compounds in organometallic chemistry contain carbon to copper chemical bonds. Organocopper chemistry is the science of organocopper compounds describing their physical properties, synthesis and reactions. They are reagents in organic chemistry. The first organocopper compound, the explosive copper(I) acetylide Cu2C2 (Cu-C≡C-Cu), was synthesized by Rudolf Christian Böttger in 1859 by passing acetylene gas through copper(I) chloride solution: C2H2 + 2 CuCl → Cu2C2 + 2 HCl Henry Gilman prepared methylcopper in 1936. In 1941, Kharash discovered that reaction of a Grignard reagent with...
@Loong change your name to @Loong-AKA-IUPAC.
2
Jan
Jan
@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. @IUPAC-aka_Loong
@Jan Step by step; be patient.
Jan
Jan
Alright … I'll patiently go shopping and then home now ;)
And I'm going to be going to be going to be going to sleep.
Jan
Jan
19:43
@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. Is that future IV?
@Jan No, that's impossible future.
Jan
Jan
Reminds me of the old joke:
> Which tense and mood is 'You shouldn't have been born'?
@Cop's playing with chat animations again.
Jan
Jan
> Preservative defect.
Haha
Well, that's my weakness; you can't throw me new jokes.
Jan
Jan
19:45
I can't?
Well, you theoretically can.
Jan
Jan
But you know most of 'em?
Maybe.
Jan
Jan
Okay. Well, anyway, I wanted to be off o/
19:49
@CopperKettle if you define "valence electrons" the way the book quoted in the answer does, then you would say "Cu has one valence electron, but non-valence electrons participate in bonding". And if you define "valence electrons" as electron that participate in bond, you would say Cu has more than one valence electron, let's say 11 valence electrons. It's just a matter of defining an unnecessary term. scientificamerican.com/article/…DavePhD 1 min ago
So Dave is still kicking.
20:10
@TanMath When you ping me
I'm around, just not hanging out on stackexchange much
 
2 hours later…
22:38
0
Q: Borderline self-promotional edit

steveverrillToday I received an edit suggestion on this answer of mine. The answer contains the following: Probably the ultimate non-toxic solution [for a high density brine] would be a cesium polytungstate solution. The suggested edit was as follows Probably the ultimate non-toxic solution would ...


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