The Periodic Table

Martin - マーチン

07:04

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Are we twisted today?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

08:49

@Martin-マーチン Yep. And my avatar always looks cool.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

09:05

I keep repeating it's cool but it gets cooler every time.

pH13

11:19

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M be aware that you don't reach absolute zero

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@pH13 I'm at -20 K now.

pH13

then you should consider a recalibration of your thermometer

I read a few minutes ago about sp5 hybridization ... does that tell you sth?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

11:37

Pfft.

Levy

Hi! @inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Hullo!

Levy

What's that?

heeeey!

bye!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Levy Twist-boat conformation of cyclohexane

The second most stable conformation.

Amirite @pH13?

pH13

you ask questions ...

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M looks like, yes

Berne

11:53

Hi!@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Berne Is that you?

Berne

obviously

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

And I told you Berne is a boring name, but whatever.

Berne

inoza..... is boring too.

Election!!!! @inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

What had happened?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Nothing important.

Berne

11:56

give me a link

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

ell.stackexchange.com/election

Berne

how many votes?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

16:30

Hey @Mith!

@pH13 I lost faith in hybridization when they said it's not real real . . .

I don't like pure math. Math should have some meaning, some parallelization with what's going on IRL.

Mithoron

Hey!

pH13

as I said, I don't want a mathematical answer, as it seems to work but produce wtf-results. I am asking for "another explanation that might base more on chemical intuition or "real" chemical concepts".

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

"Real" chemical concepts asks for a cool answer from the mighty @ron.

pH13

we'll see

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Loong should hybridization notation be slanted?

Mithoron

16:36

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Err, simply this "alternative" hybridization doesn't have much to do with number of orbitals, it even usually is fractional

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Flips hybridization

pH13

@StevenGrigsby

more theory oriented:
Christoph Cramer, Essentials of Computational Chemistry
Frank Jensen, Introduction to Computational Chemistry
Ira Levine, Quantum Chemistry

practical examples for "real" problems:
Steven Bachrach, Computational Organic Chemistry

Loong

16:54

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M like "$sp^3$ hybridized atom"?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Loong so it should be slanted, right?

Loong

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M No, IUPAC uses upright characters "$\mathrm{sp^3}$"

On the way to success

Hello evryone

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Guys superuser.com/questions/972484/windows-10-debacle/972488#972488

@Onthewaytosuccess hi!

On the way to success

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M:Hey hw re u doing?

obe

17:04

@Onthewaytosuccess How was your exam?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Good, busy.

Slow typing.

On the way to success

@obe:Hello, OMG do you remeber that I had an exam?

@obe: Not bad and not good

obe

@Onthewaytosuccess That is the only thing I remember.

On the way to success

Hey any of you are working on wondows os?

obe

My quantum field theory course starts tomorrow and I'm screwed.

On the way to success

17:07

@obe: are you a undegrad?

obe

@Onthewaytosuccess I'm in high school.

Same as @inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

On the way to success

@obe: So you are studying quantum field theory? I have no idea what is it

Obe: where are you from?

pH13

@Onthewaytosuccess here is win 7

On the way to success

@pH13: Hello hw re u doing?

Did you ugrade it windows 10

obe

@Onthewaytosuccess Right though I didn't completely finish learning QM and didn't read on complex analysis. Idk what it's about in detail... I'm taking it to learn.

@Onthewaytosuccess I'm from Canada.

pH13

17:10

@Onthewaytosuccess nope and if I update it, I will not do it until shortly before the 1 year upgrade option end

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Onthewaytosuccess Only if you have some good RAM.

On the way to success

@pH13: Why do you aim that?

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M: have you upgraded to win 10

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Onthewaytosuccess I'm working with 8.

@Onthewaytosuccess No.

obe

I have windows 10 right now.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@obe How stupid is it?

obe

17:12

I like it better than windows 8 to be fair.

pH13

@Onthewaytosuccess there is no need to upgrade from win 7 to win 10 - there was also no need to update to win 8

On the way to success

@obe: Isi t better than win 7 and 8

obe

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M It's glitchy... my wifi keeps disconnecting from time to time.

@Onthewaytosuccess It's like windows 7 + windows 8.

pH13

Now many users are kind of beta testing Win 10 and when the year is over, the most important patches and drivers, etc. are there to securely update to win 10

@obe 1+(-1)=0 ;)

obe

@pH13 True.

I still prefer xp.

On the way to success

17:14

@pH13,@obe,@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M: I have a notification which says that my pc upgradable to win 10 for FREE

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Onthewaytosuccess So what?

pH13

@obe now that's not the best solution ... but if your software can handle that

@Onthewaytosuccess it is for free ... for a whole year

On the way to success

@pH13: For a whole year ?

pH13

@Onthewaytosuccess yes

On the way to success

I dunno but I think it is for lifetiem but not sure

pH13

17:16

it is free for 1 year to upgrade it from win 7 or 8

after that year, you have to pay for it

On the way to success

@pH13: pcworld.com/article/2873214/windows/…

what about that article

pH13

Yes, free! This upgrade offer is for a full version of Windows 10, not a trial. 3GB download required; internet access fees may apply. To take advantage of this free offer, you must upgrade to Windows 10 within one year of availability. Once you upgrade, you have Windows 10 for free on that device.

from microsoft.com/en-us/windows/features ... below footnote 10

On the way to success

That is an amzing offer , isn't

pH13

kind of

but it is to be viewed very ambivalent.

On the way to success

@pH13: Wt are u upto these days?

Research things

pH13

17:19

nothing ^^ I wait for starting my master thesis in octobre ... then it will be about ruthenium dyes

On the way to success

@obe: Don't you have any exams

Ruthenium dyes@pH13: so you are going to make those or what?

pH13

I'm nearly at the end of my study ... there are no exams anymore ... besides a last protocol and my thesis (+ the defense of it)

@Onthewaytosuccess I will be calculating stuff ... computational chemistry

On the way to success

that's cool

pH13

I hope so :D

On the way to success

Are females rare in chemistry field?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

17:23

@Onthewaytosuccess not rare, shy.

pH13

depends on the field

On the way to success

@pH13: So hw abt your field

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M: Only shy? aren't there anyother things

pH13

we are currently 10 people in our group with 1 woman ... our boss

On the way to success

@pH13: Isn't that interesting?

,@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M @pH13: Hey if i upgrade to win 10, do I get office 10 also free

pH13

@Onthewaytosuccess I don't think so

@Onthewaytosuccess why should it be?

On the way to success

17:29

isn't it free in win 7 also

pH13

no?

On the way to success

@pH13: You are from germany? what is the time there?

Here it is exactly 23:00

pH13

19:30

On the way to success

I am sleepy now, so good bye @pH13,@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M,@obe

pH13

bye ^^ good night

obe

17:47

Bye.

ron

19:01

@pH13 Are you still around?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@pH13 HOW DARE YOU NOT ANSWER @ron?

ron

How are you MRA?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Great, thanks!

Kinda stuck studying math and can't get back to chem. But good.

And the math is tolerable. It's functions and waves and stuff.

ron

You're a senior in HS, right?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Well we don't have senior-freshman status here.

But it's my third year in high school.

ron

19:08

So do you start applying to college next year?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Next year's next year.

ron

so still some time then

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Yep, still just a kid.

ron

19:32

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Good luck with the math problems, see you next time I'm around!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Cya!

ron

@pH13 Your cyclopropane post caught my eye. Maybe we could discuss non-mathematical aspects of hybridization and bent bonds the next time we are both here in chat.

pH13

19:47

@ron I'll be back in a few minutes

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@pH13 Too late.

BWAHHAHA

pH13

noooo

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Next time, learn to be in chat.

pH13

;)

@ron I don't know your time zone, but I'm in UTC+1 (central european time) and here around 10 a.m. to 11 p.m.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@pH13 He's currently in the US I think.

pH13

20:02

then this will work for a few hours, as it works with Todd also

ron

@pH13 Hi

pH13

hi :)

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Noooooo!

ron

Is there something in particular that you don't like about using the bent bond explanation in cyclopropane?

pH13

it's not about the bond itself, it's about the "sp5" description

that's completely unlogic and sure, I can follow the maths behind it, but that does not change sth about the unlogic 5 p orbitals ^^

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

20:12

This is gonna be interesting to watch.

ron

what about it? it is just one point on the sigma continuum from pure s to pure p sigma bonds

pH13

and a pure sigma p bond would consist of more than two p orbitals?

ron

no one p orbital on each atom and the two orbitals overlap in a sigma sense

does that make sense?

pH13

it does

the absolute problem lies in the fact, that "sp^5$ states, that the bond would consist from one s and five p orbitals

ron

sp5 is just more p contribution and less s than in a sp3 orbital

pH13

20:15

no ... would be hybridized from them

ron

one part s and 5 parts p vs. one part s and 3 parts p, what's the difference conceptually?

pH13

my thought behind sp3 is a mixture per atom from one s and three p orbitals - so far so good

sp5 would then tell me based on my principle, that I would need per atom: 1 s orbital and 5 p orbitals ... where do the 2 more p orbitals come from?

ron

but very few bonds are exactly sp3, most are something more or less, cyclopropane C-C bonds just have a lot more p character

pH13

I could live with sth like 20% s and 80 % p

ron

ok well sp5 is one part s and 5 parts p so it is 16% s

pH13

20:19

it's not hard to imagine sth like low or high p character

ron

sp5 gives

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@pH13 No, of course not. If you say s5p25, does it mean the bond consists of 30 orbitals?

ron

an sp5 mix gives the best C-C overlap in cyclopropane

pH13

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M for me and my current thoughts about the nomenclature, this would be the case

ron

than ks MAR

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

20:21

@pH13 sp5 means there's 16% s and 84% percent p character.

ron

the hybridization indices s1p5 means 1 part s and 5 parts p combine to make the orbital

when one sums over all orbitals on the atom the totals must =1 and the total p=3

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Almost. I'm not that masochistic to write $16.\bar{6}$ percent or $16.6666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666‌666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666\ldots$.

pH13

@ron I accept that ...

that was the way I was thinking of that

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@pH13 Zustand == orbital?

pH13

wait for it

f.l.t.r.: ground state, excited state, hybridized state

Zustand = state

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

20:24

OK now I totally German. ᕙ(⇀‸↼‶)ᕗ

pH13

this scheme always made sense to me, as sp3 orbitals would be created from one s and three p orbitals ...

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@pH13 But sp3 itself doesn't mean that.

ron

@ph13 is the point clear now? $\ce{S^{x}p^y}$ x and y are hybridization indices.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

It's just because 1 and 3 are good integers to begin with.

pH13

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M seems like ... now

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

20:26

@Ron you had some good answers on this . . .

pH13

@ron as I said - I have no problem of thinking about bonds in percentages of s or p amounts ... it was just the numbers that confused me, because I thought in this easy scheme

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Not easy, simplified.

ron

yes i understand

pH13

there was no need, though, to think of it in another way

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M sorry, yes ^^

thank you for clarification about it

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

What a miss . . . I wish you were user 4321 @ron.

ron

20:27

as i said, those numbers are just hybridization indices, telling us the s/p % composition of the orbital. NOT how many full s and full p orbitals are involved.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@pH13 read some of this.

Oh BTW I forgot to ping @Martin.

@Martin ^

^ @Martin

@Mar ^ tin

pH13

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M the percentage explanation is completely ok ... but I commented that I might have to read about those concepts again. I also never heard of Bent's rule before coming to this site

ron

if we're clear, I'm going to watch some american football (first week of the season!)

pH13

as no one of my study colleges here has, too

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@pH13 Me neither of course. :)

ron

20:30

see you two later

pH13

cu, have fun :)

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

La'er!

pH13

thx again

ron

you bet!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Bent's rule is actually really useful. And I'm surprised I partially understand it.

pH13

20:31

I will read it, when I have time for it

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

3 hours ago, by pH13

I'm nearly at the end of my study ... there are no exams anymore ... besides a last protocol and my thesis (+ the defense of it)

Hmm. Hm. Hm hm.

pH13

hm?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Hm. Hm. Nevermiiiiiind . . .

pH13

tell me ಠ_ಠ

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

I zzz.

@pH13 No. ಠ_ಠ

pH13

20:43

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M do it

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

I didn't hear you because I have closed the lid of my laptop and I'm asleep.

pH13

you highlighted it and now you don't want to talk about it oô

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

I didn't hear you because I have closed the lid of my laptop and I'm now asleep.

pH13

grr

good night ಠ_ಠ

Berne

21:38

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

→ 7 messages moved to Trash

Berne

What are doing?

What's that?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Shhh.

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