The Periodic Table

Todd Minehardt

01:18

got some spam - chemistry.stackexchange.com/questions/34753/…

PH13

07:43

o/

Wildcat

08:09

=\^.^/=

BURN SPAMERS!

PH13

burn them in hell

did you heard of that Mg + NaCl stuff before?

Wildcat

nope

My review queue is now empty. :(

PH13

nooo

Wildcat

And no new qc questions.

PH13

then I maybe should think of a qc question

Wildcat

08:22

At least SCF IS CONVERGING! :D

PH13

fast ?

Wildcat

slowly

PH13

but at least it does

Wildcat

but steadily!

:D

PH13

purrfect

what is your work horse functional?

Wildcat

08:32

BP86 for geom opt

M06-2X for TD-DFT

PH13

no matter if organic or inorganic?

Wildcat

well, i do only org stuff

PH13

ok ^^

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

16:43

@Mart ping me if my meta Q is still ununderstandable.

PH13

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M o/

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

\o

PH13

o/

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

I see my meta post has stroke like a lightening.

BUT

PH13

BUTT

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

16:46

Now I need to rip you apart with acid.

Martin - マーチン

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M ping

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

What part of it is ununderstandable?

Martin - マーチン

did you change anything?

Wildcat

So many humans! :O

Hi there!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Martin-マーチン No.

Martin - マーチン

16:48

it does not show any edits

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Wildcat Who you calling human? ಠ_ಠ

\o

@Martin-マーチン I didn't change anything because I need to know what to change.

Wildcat

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M, not you, my cyclo... whatever friend! :D

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

I'm almost certain a lot of regs understand me because they've seen at least one of those questions.

Martin - マーチン

well, change thos example questions to something meaningful...

you don't have to link it, but

i really didn't get what you were talking about the elves stuff

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

But if I write human it'll easily be searchable and thus the meta effect.

Wildcat

16:52

Aha. New meta discussion...

I'm with Ben Norris!

BURN!

Such questions are off-topic.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

I'm with myself. ANNIHILATE!

Martin - マーチン

well if no one knows what you are actually talking about, then this question just stands and reads as a joke

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Martin-マーチン But who doesn't?

Martin - マーチン

What do you mean?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Except you, no one has commented and said it's unclear. You also get it.

PH13

16:54

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M because most of us have been in chat yesterday

Wildcat

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M, and I agree with @Martin-マーチン: you better provide links to the real questions.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Wildcat I don't want meta effect.

Hmm, I'd add links if @Martin promises to lock those questions to prevent downvotes.

Wildcat

I got it, but I feel it is fine to have the meta effect.

PH13

@ToddMinehardt o/

Martin - マーチン

What downvotes do you want to prevent

the questions are already locked, until there is consensus on them in meta

Todd Minehardt

16:56

hey @PH13 - hi guys

Martin - マーチン

they were a real flag party when I came about this morning...

Wildcat

Hi @ToddMinehardt.

Todd Minehardt

hey @Wildcat

Martin - マーチン

and i had quite a hard time sorting this out...

Wildcat

:D

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

16:57

@Martin-マーチン They are?

@ToddMinehardt \o

Todd Minehardt

hi @inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Martin - マーチン

until I convinced myself to just lock them and see how the meta post evolves...

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

BTW enjoy my sensible comment:

@Aify we always comment and ask for research if research is expected. 70% of the time the asker responds with their research in comment, and we add them to the question. The other 30% either don't respond or say plzzz halp i wants answers! and then we close the question. I stated that they don't do research because they even generally state that in their question. Just saying I'm not a chemist so I didn't do calculations is not a good excuse. — inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M 36 secs ago

@Martin-マーチン Thumbs up I'm gonna add the links.

PH13

@ToddMinehardt I got my structure output from the programmer-lady herself. but it's not quite as wanted it ;) she included it into the pyff.py

Martin - マーチン

but I had a lot of reading to do before I was able to get that out in there

Todd Minehardt

16:58

@PH13 - good to hear (i guess, sounds like a partial solution) - let me look at what she did...

Martin - マーチン

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M I don't say add the links, but leave out the elves and angry birds... make it more factual, so that we actually know what we are talking about

PH13

@ToddMinehardt I think it's appended to fafoom/fafoom/pyff.py

def save_to_file(self):

Martin - マーチン

the meta post can serve as something to refer to when these questions arise again... which will happen

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Martin-マーチン No, if I am to be informative, I need to add links.

Todd Minehardt

yeah, looking at the changelog - save_to_file is it

Martin - マーチン

17:00

and I just don't see these questions persist on the site...

when the meta post reaches consensus, I am going to unlock these questions and close them off toppic

after that the community will take care of them

just like any other questions

But any way @inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M I am very happy you brought that whole topic up. It develops our community :D So, that is great!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

17:19

@Mart done!

Martin - マーチン

great, thanks a lot

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Bows

I agree its jokish tone was too high, many folks wouldn't take it seriously.

Martin - マーチン

well I enjoyed that a lot though ;)

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

I'm hoping to make meta as jolly as possible.

I wanna make that gray look better in your eyes.

Also, I wanna get badges

Martin - マーチン

good job ;)

PH13

17:30

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@PH13 Don't be sad, you're sometimes a good boy too, sometimes.

PH13

:C

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Is that a colon behind moon?

PH13

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M more like (ಠ ∩ಠ)

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

I see the resemblance.

PH13

17:42

o/ @chipbuster

chipbuster

ello

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Yellow!

Aify

17:55

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M I don't understand your comment on the producing sand part.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Hullo @Aify! Welcome to our chatroom!

I left the homework policy link as a comment.

Let's discuss stuff here.

I think now we need ideas from other people, as your idea is well-stated.

bon

@Martin-マーチン Can you use your moderator powers to deal with this guy please. chemistry.stackexchange.com/users/17961/bobby-blue

Also hi everyone else

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@bon Hi.

@Bon mods only nuke spammers.

Aify

I've finished reading the homework policy.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Aify That's quick.

Aify

17:58

(I read 400wpm with 80% retention rate) I don't think that applies to the question I asked.

reasons:

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Bon @Martin can write a warning message, but as they're an unregistered user, I don't think that'll help.

PH13

@Aify your question could be on how the acid effects the body but as long as your questions refers to how long it would take, you need calculations and those need an approach

bon

@M.A Yeah I'm not sure what he can do but hopefully something cos spam like that is just annoying - although it does give free flags :D

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Oh wait now, is this defense?

@Aify we're totally not attacking you.

Aify

1) In the policy, A "homework question" is any question whose value lies in helping you understand the method by which the question can be solved, rather than getting the answer itself." The value of the answers resulting in answering the original question is not in the method of calculation at all - The value of it would likely be in the data regarding fluoroantimonic acid that would be saved on this site.

@PH13 I realize that I need calculations, and I've provided an approach (Albeit a very vaguely worded one)

Because there's a ludicrous lack of data on fluoroantimonic acid, having a calculation on this site would increase the value of the site, would it not?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

18:02

Of course it would.

Aify

Or maybe I'm searching for the wrong things, because I sure can't find any data on it.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Letting a question slip through is sometimes good too, but not when the topic is problematic.

Aify

How is the topic problematic?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Aify You can just say that I found this formula that relates acid strength to what and what, however, I dunno how I should calculate what.

bon

Personally I don't see that it really qualifies as a homework question. Although it might technically be under the policy, it clearly isn't intended in that way. The purpose of the policy is to avoid low quality homework dumps.

Now whether it is still on topic otherwise is another question. Personally I think its a rather amusing/interesting question but that it might be quite difficult to answer well due to the complexity of the imagined situation (basically your gonna have to actually try it to find out).

Aify

18:05

Thank you, @bon

That was a subtle point I was trying to get at that I couldn't get into words for some reason.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

And that's a chemistry view. My view may well be polluted by meta.

bon

@Aify have your read this question chemistry.stackexchange.com/questions/4877/…

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Aify Alas, you need to put in there more details.

@Bon that example is misleading.

Aify

I have indeed, and that question uses Hydroflouric acid which byfar isn't even close to the strength of fluoroantimonic acid. Fluoroantimonic acid contains properties that allows it to essentially melt through anything except for Teflon.

bon

Why?

Aify

18:07

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M How can I put in more details when those details don't exist? What kind of details are you looking for? I can certainly put in more details, if I were able to find them.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Good example as a guidance, but if you wanna say the Op of that didn't provide effort, that doesn't work.

Aify

Also, I fully realize that it's a difficult question to answer due to the complexity of the situation, which is why the proposed actual question is much less complex, where we don't have to try to find out.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Aify Then put some info! "I have seen [this question], but fluoroantimonic's pka is blah while HF's is bleh so I reckon it would be x times faster."

There are formulas that work for all of acids.

Aify

I could put in that it takes sulfuric acid 2 days to melt a body. Fluoroantimonic acid is 200 quintillion times stronger, so it should be able to do it in a minute or less.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Well, how do you define strength?

Aify

18:10

I couldn't find the formula for this acid, mostly because it's 1) not a normal acid. It's a "Super acid" and 2) There isn't much data to work with

bon

@Aify I would certainly add the fact that you have read the previous question (provide a link to it as well) and that you are interested in the differences between the two acids.

PH13

@Aify and why do you think that we can calculate sth without data?

Aify

Chemical potential

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Aify have you heard of Hammett acidity function?

PH13

besides that my point still holds. your question is not about the chemistry.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

18:11

@PH13 They can make it so.

Aify

I've read about that function on wiki.

bon

@PH13 It is about the chemistry, but it will require doing an experiment in order to find out the answer as I suspect it is far to complex to even make a decent attempt at calculating it.

Aify

fluoroantimonic acid has a value of -28

Bon it's only complex if we actually try to get an exact value for dissolving ab ody

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Aify No, it's really complex no matter how much you try to break it down.

Aify

we can get a much easier calculation by substituting the human body with a chunk of (bone/flesh/tissue/the hardest thing for the acid to react with in the human body)

chipbuster

18:13

"Assume a spherical human in a vaccuum..."

bon

How do you know what the hardest thing to dissolve is. I suspect that will be the problem.

PH13

@chipbuster i like that

Aify

And that's the info that's missing in the question

@bon

because theres no data on it!

bon

Personally I think it should stay open but I doubt that you will get a good answer for it because it requires too much work.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Unless you say "I'm dropping a 30x20x30 rectangle cube" in vacuum . . .

PH13

18:14

the info that's missing in the question is a formula that relates acidity to dissolving speed/strength

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Man, the more I think, the more I find out that this thing lacks a lot of details.

Aify

Does that formula even exist?

PH13

@Aify Actually I hope that it does not.

bon

@Aify I suspect not

PH13

not because of your question but because of "no normal reasonable scientist would do that" ...

Aify

18:16

But we can do a calculation for reaction rate between the acid and calcium, right?

Yes, no normal reasonable scientist would do it. So if we manage to get the data on it here, we would suddenly have very valuable information, wouldn't we?

PH13

@Aify then ask your question this way ... I don't want to read about dissolving humans ...

I - as many others here - don't want to answer questions on dissolving humans.

Aify

@PH13 Noted. I came from world building, and we're doing a weapon-design challenge right now, so we're all in the mindset of killing people. I apollogize if that has caused anything unwanted. I would rephrase it to the calcium version, but the post is locked.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Aify then wait till tomorrow afternoon, when I'll decide and post my answer and close the case.

Wildcat

heh

PH13

@Aify I don't know what to do/can be done with locked questions :)

Wildcat

18:24

killing people is not a bad idea per se :D

Humans are dead-end of the evolution! :D

PH13

@Wildcat we (actually not >we<) will see

Wildcat

Humans are Nature's fault! We have to fix it! =^.^=

chipbuster

oh dear

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Wildcat I concur,

Let's dissolve someone.

chipbuster

FLEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Aify

18:28

Can we use Fluoroantimonic acid? And measure the rate?

Wildcat

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M, let's catch a hw vampire and do that!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Are you a human?

PH13

@Aify good point ;D

Aify

I'm a robot. Let's just use a corpse from the local morgue.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

K we're going on a vacation, tatta guys.

PH13

18:43

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M human dissolving vacations?

or vacations from human dissolving?

Apoorv

hello :D

PH13

hello :D

Apoorv

I wished to know about the reason as to why there are multiple definitions for acidity..

if one is better than others, shouldn't we just stick with it?

PH13

@Apoorv as they did not plop in all at once, they coexist because all of them have been invented ... what definitions do you have in mind=

Apoorv

Bronsted and Lowry must have felt that Arrhenius' definition isn't complete/general enough and hence they invented their own and so shouldn't Arrhenius' definition be dropped and thought of as obsolete?

HDE 226868

18:57

I supposed I indirectly caused a fiasco yesterday (I asked the referenced question on Worldbuilding). I hope I didn't indirectly disrupt too much on Chemistry. Apologies for that.

PH13

it always depends on what you want to describe or explain. and in terms of easy explanations you sure don't choose the theories that are most advanced but those who fit best to your problem.

@HDE226868 there need to be questions like this to know what to do in future. so it's ok that they appear

HDE 226868

I wasn't sure if there was precedent for this kind of thing happening before. My thinking is that the questions here can be boiled down to homework-esque ones.

Apoorv

@PH13 oh, i think i get the idea.. thanks!

PH13

@Apoorv that they coexist does not mean that they are all used. esp. in school there is a history part that somehow leads you step by step through the inventions that have been made

@HDE226868 I mean, there are questions that rise into everyone's head but not all of them have to asked somewhere in the internet. Some of those questions should disappear as sudden as they came. And everything that is related to killing people, dissolving flesh or whatever else one can imagine are simply nothing that should a) be asked ... think about who could be offended by this question and b) answered ... because why should someone get advices for questions on killing people with chemistry.

Apoorv

@PH13 that is the actually the reason why the question came to my mind

I was being taught in school and perhaps missed the main idea

PH13

19:11

@Apoorv look on antique/classic cars ... they are on roads occasionally but not all the time but only for history reasons or just to show off ;)

so ... I'm afk

chipbuster

@Apoorv have you taken an organic chem class yet?

chipbuster

19:28

@HDE226868 it's a question that almost every "practical" SE has to ask itself at some point or another. There was a huge hubbub on the travel SE recently over a guy who asked about bringing a bazooka, bulletproof vest, and gold ingot onto a passenger plane.

HDE 226868

@chipbuster I'm trying to figure out how the gold ingot relates to the other two. . . Yes, it's a big issue, and it might have come up on WB at some point.

Ah, I found him:

User, London, United Kingdom

1.2k 2 11 28

Those are scary questions.

chipbuster

Lots of very bizzare stuff.

But I don't think that being scary on its own is a valid reason for closure.

Then again, I'm American. We have some really wackers perspectives on "free speech" and whatnot.

Nicolau Saker Neto

... Wow, that is bizarre

Wildcat

20:27

:D

PH13

traveling with a gold ingot ... nice

Wildcat

They never sell tickets to cats. :( Only to humans.

PH13

cats with gold ingots would be funny

Wildcat

20:45

who needs these useless pieces of metal?

except for stupid humans, I mean

:|

PH13

that's the point

@bon I hate that you can change things without the need for approvement xD

santiago

homework vampires swarming!

PH13

but I'm on my way ಠ_ಠ

bon

@PH13 :D :D gotta farm that rep

I was only 43 sec after you anyway

PH13

:O

＼＼\\٩(๑`^´๑)۶//／／

or even more @inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M -ish: ლ(ಠ益ಠ)ლ

let's say it in lolcode:

HAI
CAN I HAZ REPZ
KTHXBYE

Wildcat

20:58

Did not watch football for long time. Watched few games today. Still soooooooo boring.

:|

santiago

vampires... vampires everywhere!!!!

bon

it's night time (here at least)

PH13

where is there?

bon

vampires are coming out to play

@Ph13 UK

Wildcat

@santiago, are cats in danger? :O

Or do vampires attack only humans?

PH13

21:02

not cat vampires

santiago

@Wildcat all lifeforms are in danger

Wildcat

@santiago, damn

PH13

@bon is it 22 pm?

santiago

my sarcasm is about to be triggered

bon

@PH13 yes. or 22:04 to be precise

Wildcat

21:05

Heh, my clocks just crossed through the midnight. :O

Still no vampires.

In close proximity.

:D

PH13

there is no summer time in russia, right?

forever winter

Wildcat

@PH13, depends on where exactly do you live. :D

santiago

homework questions must be closed, downvoted to the 7th level of hell and the OP be flogged with a rubber chicken

Wildcat

@santiago, true.

and not sad

:D

PH13

@Wildcat ok ... forever winter time

Wildcat

21:07

@PH13, NO! IT'S SUMMER TIME!

:D

This summer though is not that hot.

At least in central part of the country.

PH13

I thought I read sth about that russia don't changes through winter and summer time :O

Loong

@santiago or simply dissolved in worldbuilding acid

Mithoron

Hello :)

Wildcat

@PH13, currently I'm not sure, because these things are constantly changing for the last few years.

@Mithoron, =\^.^/=

PH13

@Mithoron czesc

Wildcat

21:10

@PH13, On 26 October 2014, Russia permanently returned to "winter" time.

:O

permanently

OK

PH13

as I said :D

why do I know more about your time zone than you? xD

Wildcat

i have no idea

maybe you're a spy

:O

a German spy :O

PH13

(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

you mixed that up ... that would be an american

Wildcat

why?!

PH13

because the NSA spies on everyone

and we poor germans are the victims of the nsa

ლ(｡-﹏-｡ ლ)

Wildcat

21:16

@PH13, cs419129.vk.me/v419129065/a2df/EcTMK9uz91c.jpg

or wait

Can you see that? :D

PH13

yeah ... the language is kind of a hindrance

Wildcat

The boy says: "My farther says you're watching us"

Obama response is: "He is not your father"

:D

PH13

xD

that's exactly my point :D

santiago

@Loong YES!

i need to answer more...

almost answered a question last night.... discarded it...

Wildcat

@santiago, but why? :O

santiago

21:25

lost confidence, not happy with it etc etc

Wildcat

:(

santiago

been doing that a bit lately...

Not sure if anyone noticed, I have stopped greeting too, but are still doing things in the background (reviewing mainly)

Mithoron

@Wildcat Nice joke :D

Loong

@santiago You are becoming a mod.

santiago

@Loong omg!

Mithoron

21:30

@Loong Oh no, we must save him :D

Loong

@Mithoron Noo, he will become one of us.

Wildcat

@Loong, is it lethal? :O

Loong

@Wildcat Certainly. But that is not the end.

@santiago Come to the dark side!

Mithoron

@Loong Oh, no you too 8) Gahh, is it contagious?

santiago

me? a mod? bahahahahahaha

Loong

21:35

Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen.

PH13

:D

@Loong it's written in some IUPAC books, I guess

santiago

I think the chances of me becoming a mod is bout as likely as sentient life being found on Neptune's moon Triton

Wildcat

@Loong, is the denial we see from @santiago a typical symptom?

santiago

anywways, I got to go...lol

Loong

@Wildcat well, it's a twelve-step program

Wildcat

21:38

:O

so loong :D

Mithoron

1

Q: Why does RCN attack the benzene ring in Hoesch Reaction?

In the Hoesch reaction, an alkyl cyanide reacts with a polyhydric benzene ring, and forms an imine salt by attacking the activated benzene ring. Most acid derivatives (and even alkyl cyanide itself with phenol) results in attack at the alcohol's oxygen, which is more nucleophilic than the benzene...

organic-chemistry reaction-mechanism

PH13

so ... good night :)

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