The Periodic Table - 2016-04-14 (page 1 of 2)

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user116211

3:18 AM

@Martin-マーチン: Don't we have soft-question tag at ChemSE?

user116211

1

Q: Szabo and Ostlund?

This is kind of a silly question, but my google-fu has failed me, and I can think of no better place to ask it: What ever happened to the authors of the classic "Modern Quantum Chemistry", Attila Szabo and Neil S. Ostlund? I notice that they were faculty at IU and University of Arkansas, respect...

user116211

This question is not of any actual chemistry query but, IMO, not an off-topic; it could have been tagged with soft-question.... please opine on it.

Martin - マーチン

5:24 AM

@MAFIA36790 what is a soft-question? Sounds like a meta tag. I doubt we have it, nor that we need it.

user116211

5:46 AM

@Martin-マーチン We have this at physics... this goes as:

user116211

physics.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/soft-question

user116211

> Questions that ask about some aspect of physics research or study which doesn't involve the actual physics. In general, soft questions can be answered without using physical reasoning.

user116211

Since the question above doesn't relate to any actual chem query, I thought that tag would be apt in that context.

user116211

@mart would you consider that question off-topic?

Martin - マーチン

not sure... it's somewhat in the history of chemistry scope...

user116211

5:51 AM

IMO, we shouldn't take it as an off-topic query..... he wanted to know about the whatabouts of the authors... maybe quite a legitimate discussion at chat? Not sure though.

user116211

Let the community decide.

Martin - マーチン

There is no cv on it, by now i would consider it decided...

user116211

Meanwhile Geoff has given what OP wanted.

6:59 AM

@MAFIA36790 I hate that tag.

I don't want it. EVER

7:21 AM

!!gun

‘̿’\\̵͇̿̿\\=( `◟ 、)=/̵͇̿̿/’̿̿ ̿

user116211

@PhMgBr: o/

user116211

!!!greet/@LucasKauffman

Welcome to The Periodic Table @LucasKauffman! Here are our chat guidelines and it's recommended that you read them. If you want to turn Mathjax on, make a bookmark of the link in this answer. Happy chatting!

\o

7:30 AM

@Chemobot !!!greet/aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa‌aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Welcome to The Periodic Table aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa&zwnj;&#8‌203;aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! Here are our chat guidelines and it's recommended that you read them. If you want to turn Mathjax on, make a bookmark of the link in this answer. Happy chatting!

user116211

@PhMgBr: Were you too busy these days?

ohoh spaghetio

do we have insufficient input validation htere :O

user116211

@LucasKauffman Were you busy doing something while typing ;P

@LucasKauffman \o

7:36 AM

@PhMgBr o/

user116211

@PhMgBr: Oh, BTW, today is our New Year- Bengali New Year ;P Lots of sweets, feasts.....

!!table

!!!table

!!where are you

Thailand just had their new year too @MAFIA36790

user116211

7:50 AM

@skillpatrol oh.

user116211

@chemobot ????

user116211

!!!gun

user116211

!!!table

!!table

user116211

???

user116211

7:51 AM

@hippa help!!

!table

!!table

!!!!!!!!!table

user116211

!!table

user116211

!!!table

user116211

damn,

user116211

7:52 AM

!!!gun

user116211

hmmm....

user116211

!!!table

Oh well, it seems table is down.

Stop sandboxing

user116211

!!!untable

!!!help

user116211

7:53 AM

:)

user116211

0

Q: What causes a frozen egg to be smoothy instead of fluid?

If you freeze an egg the yolk of it gets more spreadable instead of it was fluid before. It appears that this state of the yolk is perm. So what chemical reaction causes this?

organic-chemistry

user116211

Damn; I never observed it ;(

user116211

I hate eggs.

Martin - マーチン

table and untable dont exist anymore

!!flip is the new table

(╯°□°)╯︵ ɹǝʇʇıʍ⊥

user116211

7:58 AM

!!!flip

user116211

@Martin-マーチン I totally forgot.

user116211

!!!untable

user116211

???

user116211

@Martin-マーチン untable exists.

Martin - マーチン

well

7:59 AM

!!flip/@Mart's mod powers

(╯°ਊ°)╯︵@ɯɐɹʇ⅋#Ɛ6؛s ɯop doʍǝɹs

!!flip/@ɯɐɹʇ⅋#Ɛ6؛s ɯop doʍǝɹs

Martin - マーチン

hmmm

(╯°ਊ°)╯︵@mart's mod powers

Martin - マーチン

stopit

8:00 AM

@Hipp broken Unicode. ^^^

user116211

8 mins ago, by PhMgBr

Stop sandboxing

!!flip/@Mafia

(づ๑ʖ๑)┛︵@ɯɐɟᴉɐ

user116211

;(

user116211

!!!gun @PhMgBr

8:03 AM

!!flip

（ノ－＿－）ノ･･･~┻┻

user116211

Don't use unnecessary !!

user116211

to @everyone

user116211

!!gun

( ͝ಠ ʖ ಠ)=ε/̵͇̿̿/’̿’̿ ̿

8:04 AM

Nothing is unnecessary

user116211

hmmm....

The only unnecessary thing is something that doesn't happen.

user116211

smothering PhMgBr

I thought why ina is not online for many days but he/she has changed her/his name

user116211

@ramsay she has changed his name a lot.

8:07 AM

oh i see.

@ramsay Chemicals are genderless.

@MAFIA36790 I'm everything except a she.

user116211

@PhMgBr sorry it

Aha. No further mistakes. ಠ_ಠ

user116211

shivering

but you aren't a chemical, you are human.
and names are just stupid things

8:09 AM

@ramsay Pfft, says who

user116211

@ramsay Nothing is in the name, everything is in work

ok so i should call PhMgBr as "it" right?

A and B are matrices, what is this inequality called? ||A+B||_{op} <= ||A||_{op} + ||B||_{op}

@JesterTran i think you forgot $ symbols

user116211

1344

Q: MathJax basic tutorial and quick reference

To see how any formula was written in any question or answer, including this one, right-click on the expression it and choose "Show Math As > TeX Commands". (When you do this, the '$' will not display. Make sure you add these. See the next point.) For inline formulas, enclose the formula in $......

discussion faq mathjax reference

8:12 AM

bye, mafia , ina

user116211

!!!greet/@JesterTran

Welcome to The Periodic Table @JesterTran! Here are our chat guidelines and it's recommended that you read them. If you want to turn Mathjax on, make a bookmark of the link in this answer. Happy chatting!

@Chemobot thanks

user116211

@ramsay o/

user116211

@JesterTran what is {op}?

8:15 AM

@MAFIA36790 are you familiar with norms? "op" means operator. I'm currently working with operator norms

user116211

@JesterTran damn; yes.

@MAFIA36790 thanks for this

"Your connection is not private

Attackers might be trying to steal your information from meta.math.stackexchange.com (for example, passwords, messages, or credit cards)."

@JesterTran That's because of https.

Change it to http.

user116211

@DavidZ: o/

@ramsay Call me "sensei" ᕙ(⇀‸↼‶)ᕗ

@ramsay Buh bye

user116211

8:17 AM

Have a !!!coffee @David .

user image

@PhMgBr thanks

@JesterTran I'm pretty sure there's a math.SE chat.

user116211

@PhMgBr Two

@JesterTran meta sites don't really work with HTTPS.

8:19 AM

Is there a quick way to enable mathjax?

@MAFIA36790 Two what

user116211

@PhMgBr Two main chat rooms.

@JesterTran Yes, copy the code in this answer and make it a bookmark

4

A: MathJax in chat (ChatJax offshoot)

Based on the same principle, this little bookmarklet loads cancel in addition to mhchem: javascript:(function(){if(window.MathJax===undefined){var%20script%20=%20document.createElement(%22script%22);script.type%20=%20%22text/javascript%22;script.src%20=%20%22http://cdn.mathjax.org/mathjax/latest...

Make it appear in the bookmarks bar in your browser, then drag it to the top of this tab.

@MAFIA36790 Why?

user116211

@PhMgBr that's why !! greet is for?

user116211

@PhMgBr I hardly participate there; I don't know.

user116211

8:22 AM

@PhMgBr hmmm... why does it work in my device?

@MAFIA36790 There are no whys for why a bug exists or it doesn't unless you're the developer of the code that's throwing it.

14

A: Any chance of MathJax in chat?

As a workaround while this request is pending, there exist several client-side workarounds that can be used to enable LaTeX rendering in chat, including: ChatJax, a set of bookmarklets by robjohn to enable dynamic MathJax support in chat. Commonly used in the Mathematics chat room. An altern...

possibly more useful than the bookmarklet

@DavidZ Mart's script contains mhchem.

Robjohn's doesn't, as far as I'm concerned.

user116211

@PhMgBr Chem's is different.

?

8:24 AM

Yeah, both versions are linked from the answer I posted.

well, not my answer, I mean the link I just showed

Martin - マーチン

i use the chrome extension...

You might also consider ChatJax++ which doesn't need you to click a bookmarklet at all. Though I'm not 100% sure it works properly.

Martin - マーチン

it's alright, except when you don't want it to load -.-

$$\Huge{\text{Everyone } \color{red}{\heartsuit} \text{ @Mart.}}$$

2

@DavidZ Oh well, it's not like I use it often, so when I got the bookmarklet to work, I didn't see the need for extensions with extensions.

Got it to work

Thanks everyone

Martin - マーチン

8:28 AM

$\tiny\text{stop it}$

Yeah that's fair. I guess math isn't quite as prevalent here as in the physics room.

user116211

@PhMgBr Mart is embarrassed ;P

Martin - マーチン

@DavidZ in principle, most of the times, this is only off-topic and meta

@MAFIA36790 That's all part of the plan.

Also someone seems to have a problem with a reaction:

In any case, I just figured it's better to link people to the "master list" of options for enabling MathJax in chat, so they can choose for themselves whether they want to use the bookmarklet or something else. I didn't even know about that list for a long time.

8:30 AM

-1

Q: What is the mechanism of synthesizing hydroxybenzotriazole?

I have big problem with this reaction.

organic-chemistry reaction-mechanism

@DavidZ Good point. CC @Hipp (We need a link to that in the welcome message)

user116211

@DavidZ: Yes, we can fix the Chemobot then.

@DavidZ thanks for the list :)

user116211

BTW, I'm using the chem one; it also suits the physics room. Don't know why.

Why should it not?

user116211

@PhMgBr really big problem.

user116211

8:33 AM

@PhMgBr Don't know ;P

user116211

Sometimes, I love trolling @PhMgBr ;)

You're a very bad troll then.

user116211

hmmm.... ;(

Pro tip: If the person you're trolling doesn't even feel trolled, either you have a poor taste or you're broken.

user116211

Okay, see you guys at the evening.... o/ @PhMgBr

user116211

8:34 AM

@PhMgBr enough is enough !!!gun

In your opinion, what are some concepts of chemistry that provoked a lot of thought as you studied it? (e.g. dynamic equilibrium for a reversible reaction)

user116211

@JesterTran MOT

cya later @MAFIA36790 o/

@JesterTran Hmm, what is your definition of fundamental and cool?

@PhMgBr let's delete those two words and say, any concepts

8:36 AM

I generally liked all of stereochemistry and how it affects reactions.

Also yeah, MO was pretty nice.

user116211

@JesterTran @PhMgBr is a genius in these areas.

In which areas?

Chatting? Yeah, I'm a big chatting expert all right.

user116211

@PhMgBr ;( just you mentioned; so dumbo.

user116211

1 min ago, by PhMgBr

I generally liked all of stereochemistry and how it affects reactions.

Well, stereochemistry isn't exactly an "areas".

Stop being vague !!gun

8:38 AM

(ง ͠° / ^ \\ °)-/̵͇̿̿/’̿’̿ ̿

user116211

That's a real nit-picking; annoying one.... !!!gun !!!gun !!!gun @PhMgBr

I miss chemistry :'(

user116211

cya soon.

@JesterTran Hmm, when was the last time you read some?

@JesterTran i think the concept of a mole can provoke a lot of thought

8:40 AM

Yeah, esp. how they dig their own houses.

Chemistry is generally more awesome when you like it.

20

A: How do I excel in Chemistry?

Chemistry needs a devoting reader. You should try to love chemistry as much as you want! That'll be the ignition for lots of reading and stuff. My pointers: Love chemistry. Learn in an organized matter. (For example, do not jump from studying about covalent bonds' basics to reaction mechanism. ...

> You should try to love chemistry as much as you ~~want~~ can.

tough luv

@PhMgBr Two years ago in a first year chemistry course: atoms, molecules and energy which deals with quantum mechanical structure of atoms, chemical bonding and intermolecular forces, chemical equilibrium, acids and bases, laws of thermodynamics, electron transfer reactions, corrosion and energy storage in batteries

@PhMgBr Thanks

@JesterTran Oh, so just general chemistry.

Well, exclude quantum chemistry and electrochemistry, and choose one of the other ones.

Grab a textbook on it and start studying.

8:55 AM

@PhMgBr I have interests in those too but I'm not sure where my interests are for chemistry.. gonna think about it sometime, lol.

@JesterTran Well, I have never been restricting myself to one branch of science.

If stuff's interesting, it's interesting. Doesn't matter if it's physics, chemistry, math or biology.

Or anything else.

9:19 AM

user image

10:05 AM

Bye all, gonna get grooving with classes

10:40 AM

@PhMgBr ok, what's the link I should change exactly ?

user116211

11:28 AM

@PhMgBr That's why I cherish you ;P

Martin - マーチン

12:44 PM

@Hippalectryon

Welcome to The Periodic Table @Chemobot! [Here](http://meta.chemistry.stackexchange.com/q/2723/) are our chat guidelines and it's recommended that you read them. If you want to turn Mathjax on, follow the instructions [in this answer](http://meta.stackexchange.com/a/220976/). Happy chatting!

This should do it... I'll also add the link to the guidelines

3 hours later…

3:36 PM

user image

How to draw nonoverlapping bonds like these on the scifinder editor?

1 hour later…

5:00 PM

If there is no temperature given in a chemical reaction, then is it meant to be in 'normal temperature'?

5:33 PM

@manshu Well

How do you suppose we answer that?

\o @Mith

Also !!greet/@Manshu

Welcome to The Periodic Table @Manshu! Here are our chat guidelines and it's recommended that you read them. If you want to turn Mathjax on, make a bookmark of the link in this answer. Happy chatting!

hello

Hi

Hullo to you two

hi grignard reagent of benzene :p

5:36 PM

@Mans from what I've seen, if they don't specify "STP", you can't take the conditions to be STP.

Then what do we take it

But if they haven't given you any info about the conditions, it's nonsensical to ask for something that requires that info, of course.

Here's what you should do: Go find someone else that knows this stuff and has dealt with crap that you have to deal with, and ask them.

This isn't something that we can answer reliably since we didn't face such stupid problems @Mans.

It's not like I am dealing with this stuff. i just wanted to know

There's nothing to know.

It just came to my mind.

5:38 PM

If it didn't tell you what to do, don't do.

@manshu Oh, so it's not from a question?

No

Well, you aren't likely to face such situation then.

I just checked and I found that there are some chemical reactions where there is no temperature given in my textbook

@manshu I'm pretty sure you're only provided the temperature if it's necessary for your calculations.

@Martin-マーチン Done, will be updated next time the bot restarts

5:42 PM

and for the products?

@Hippalectryon command-request manual restart of the bot.

products can vary with temperature

afaik

@manshu You mean whether or not you'll need the temperature to guess which physical state the products are in?

@PhMgBr But then how do I restart the bot restarter :D

yeah and to guess which products will be formed

5:44 PM

@Hippalectryon I'll RESTART YOUR RESTARTER ಠ_ಠ

haha

@manshu Well, potassium nitrate degrades differently in difference temperatures.

Yeah...

And what if the temperature is not given?

If it doesn't specify that the system's temperature is >500 deg C, then it's the other, "normal" degradation.

If there aren't any special indicators (like done in 10 atm), you'll assume stuff's being done in achievable and normal conditions, like in a lab.

That's intuition. Undocumented rules.

ohkk...that's what I was asking. :)

thanks

but wait.

5:47 PM

But in some reactions, like the combustion of alkanes, the water product can be gaseous or liquid.

in my this question all the three products are achievable at normal conditions

5

Q: Reactions of alcohol with sulfuric acid

I knew two chemical reactions of alcohol with sulfuric acid $\ce{CH3CH2OH + H2SO4 -> CH2CH2}$ Here product is having a double bond (ethene) and this reaction happens at 443 K temperature. $\ce{CH3CH2OH + H2SO4 -> C2H5OC2H5}$ Here product is ether an happens at 413 K temperature. But today I c...

organic-chemistry synthesis alcohols

Those are the edge cases, and you're always given a clue on what the physical state will be, if it is important.

Can we take it as "Uncertain" if nothing is given?

If nothing is given, and you have products forming in, say, 500, 510 and 520 K temperatures, then yeah.

ohk...thanks :)

5:49 PM

But in your question above, the third one is happening in much more normal conditions than the other ones.

Yeah..

Also most of organic reactions are equilibriums between different products.

but the temperatures are near enough

BRB

ok

5:54 PM

Back

There isn't really any doubt remaining. Thanks for the help.

@Mith you there?

I have a question that might be very stupid but I don't know the answer to it.

Why such change of chemical and name?

Also I'm gathering ideas before researching, so it's not researched yet.

And what question

5:57 PM

@Mithoron Since when I'm doing things that have reasons behind them?

@Mithoron Why do we have only three states of matter when we can give infinitely different energies to our substance?

Also let's not quibble over counting neutron stars and plasma and stuff as states of matter. I'm talking about sane ones.

Sorry if it's pretty simple but I don't seem to solve the contradiction.

Plasma is very common, also degenerated matter

They are quite sane for me :D

Still, there aren't infinitely many states of matter.

Imagine you have a substance with the internal energy of x.

You can add infinitely different amounts of energies to it.

Then why isn't it in infinitely many states of matter, because you're decreasing bond strength (or at least changing it) in infinitely different ways?

Wait a moment

I can wait a century. What will happen isn't in my control tho'.

Well humans prefer drastic transitions. Fluid ones are more problematic to perceive.

6:09 PM

But the change is drastic.

So it's rather a matter of definition

Water changing into water vapor is a pretty bigger change rather than water temperature increasing by one.

So the question changes into "why does this only happen few times to matter"?

Ah, wrong use of quotations, too lazy to edit.

encoding declaration in Unicode string

oops

@Chemobot You forgot the roboty mode.

Oh, back to the meta-metaquestion, is this a good question to ask @Mith?

6:15 PM

@PhMgBr Sometimes not that few.

Should I do some research and post it on the main site, or am I speaking gibberish, or both?

@Mithoron Nice, I love how mysterious you look now.

Cryptic answers :D

@PhMgBr Answer: it doesn't

!!flip

See, e.g., Curt F.'s answer to this question of mine about behavior near supercritical point:

6:17 PM

Oh, chemobot's busy. You have to do everything yourself. (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

4

A: Why must both the critical temperature and pressure be exceeded to achieve the supercritical phase?

The critical point is a phase transition of phase transitions. It's a different beast than your everyday run-of-the-mill phase transition like water boiling to vapor or ice melting to water. The diagram you included is very misleading in its use of color. The "yellow" supercritical regime does...

┬─┬ ノ( ^_^ノ)

@PhMgBr Done :D

See also the phase diagram for solid water:

For the use of this term in mathematics and physics, see phase space. A phase diagram in physical chemistry, engineering, mineralogy, and materials science is a type of chart used to show conditions (pressure, temperature, volume, etc.) at which thermodynamically distinct phases occur and coexist at equilibrium. == Overview == Common components of a phase diagram are lines of equilibrium or phase boundaries, which refer to lines that mark conditions under which multiple phases can coexist at equilibrium. Phase transitions occur along lines of equilibrium. Triple points are points on phase diagrams...

@Hippalectryon (づ｡◕‿‿◕｡)づ

6:18 PM

Chemobot is back :D

@Brian Yeah I was also thinking about those phases

@Brian OK, I'm gonna need someone to translate that to me.

BRB dinner

!!reload

Use !!reload to reload me ! (only for mods)

@Hippalectryon and what does "reload" do?

6:26 PM

@Loong Oh ._. good question :D

It reloads the function that handles chat commands to the latest version

When would I use that?

Well if I'm here you probably won't need it since I'll launch it myself I guess :(

It basically just saves me the trouble of starting the python program again everytime, and I'm restricting its use just in case

ok

@PhMgBr Ignoring plasmas & other exotics, the main reason why there are only two common fluid phases, liquid and gas, is that the movement of molecules/whatever around each other is "random" enough that, on the macroscale, you end up with a statistically-averaged distribution of particles.

@Hippalectryon and what was this:

in g-block elements, 6 hours ago, by Chemobot

🎺🎺🎺 AND HIS NAME IS JOHN CENA 🎺🎺🎺

6:30 PM

Thus, most gases are pretty similar, and most (small-molecule) liquids are pretty similar.

In terms of things like viscosity, density, etc.

@Loong :o that's unexpected. Basically the bot has posted about 500 messages since its birth, and it has one chance out of 1000 of saying that ._.

I didn't think it would appear that soon :(

@PhMg As you increase the packing (pressure) and kinetic energy (temperature) of a fluid phase, you approach the supercritical regime.

For physical reasons that I don't fully understand, that results in a convergence of gas and liquid properties.

The real question is, why did it appear in g-block ?? No one asked chemobot any question

However, depending on exactly where you are relative to the critical point, the properties of the phase can vary widely. So, to some extent, you have a "phase identity" that's a local function of temperature and pressure.

Oh I know ._. I'll fix this

6:33 PM

'YOUR CLOTHES. GIVE THEM TO ME.' 'Shit, uh ... you are now breathing manually!' 'I AM ALWAYS BREATHING MANUALLY.'

3

@PhMg In the solid phase, since the particles are ~fixed in place relative to one another, you do see a lot of different phases, such as in the ice phase diagram, above

!!reload

@Loong Haha

Fixed, now John Cena may only haunt you when you actually ping chemobot

chat.stackexchange.com/…

6:41 PM

@Brian I got ya.

Now going back to read Curt's answer.

I semi-understand things now. Thanks @Brian. Awesome as usual.

I wonder though, maybe I should post something on the main site.

This time a more flushed question, that can get some nice answers.

> Why are there two major fluid states of matter?

@PhMgBr It's a good question. Sort of a "down the rabbit hole" sort of thing, busting up the "three states of matter" paradigm of secondary school fame.

Yeah, HNQ FTW. :p

Well there are many liquid crystalline phases ;)

Kills @Mith with virtual gun

The thing that still rather baffles me is why gas/liquid phase separation occurs.

I guess it's because the particles "self-sort" by their kinetic energies?

6:48 PM

-2

Q: Organic chemistry

In the mass spectrum of an organic compound, the molecular ion occurs at m/e = 86. Which of the following could be the empirical formula of the compound? A C6H14 B C5H10N C C5H12O D C5H7F

molecular-structure

One lovely question title CC @Mart

Anything with sufficient KE escapes to fly around freely, while anything under the KE threshold is trapped into the condensed phase.

@PhMgBr !!gun

ヽ༼ຈ益ຈ༽_•︻̷̿┻̿═━一|<——— ҉ Ĺ̯̿̿▀̿ ̿)

THIS IS WAR

Sure

pH13 - Yet another Philipp

6:53 PM

!!doubleflip/nightcore

ǝɹoɔʇɥƃᴉu＼(｀д´)／uᴉƃɥʇɔoɹǝ

@pH13-YetanotherPhilipp Depends on how much it's been modified

pH13 - Yet another Philipp

wait ... !!doubleflip/nightcore

ǝɹoɔʇɥƃᴉu╰(ﾟxﾟ)╯uᴉƃɥʇɔoɹǝ

!!doubleflip/uᴉƃɥʇɔoɹǝ

6:55 PM

!!doubleflip/uᴉƃɥʇɔoɹǝ

erocthgin︵╰(゜Д゜)╯︵nightcore

erocthgin︵╰(゜益゜)╯︵ nightcore

@PhMgBr ._.

@Hippalectryon ._.

pH13 - Yet another Philipp

lol ... nice that the "backflip" works also

!!flip/lol

6:58 PM

(づಥਊಥ)づ︵ꞁoꞁ

@pH13-YetanotherPhilipp Special one for you :P

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The Periodic Table

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