The Periodic Table - 2016-10-11 (page 1 of 3)

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2:28 AM

@Loong All the best for the elections. You are definitely the best candidate out there.

@orthocresol How else would we know they're asking a question?

3:00 AM

What's the deal with the answer on this? It's like "view on hover" or something. Is it a feature to like prevent spoilers? If so, is this the proper application of it? chemistry.stackexchange.com/a/31525/402

3:28 AM

@MelanieShebel Hmm... that would seem to be their reason for doing so, but generally our policy is to not answer other people's homework questions for them

Holy moly though... I didn't know a gold tag badge gave you so much power

Maniacal laughter

1 hour later…

Martin - マーチン

4:52 AM

@MelanieShebel Yes in principle the spoiler tag can (or should) be applied for proposing a strategy without giving away the answer directly. See for example one of my answers In this case, it is somewhat okay-ish to use that. I don't think this is a good answer for the start.

@ringo Yes gold-badge holders can close hammer. Remember the Thor-badge from the Winter bash? Here's some meta for you: meta.stackexchange.com/q/230865/260760

In this case, however, the question certainly is not about organic chemistry... so ron should not have had the power to do that. In any case he was the last deciding vote, so it would not have mattered ;)

5:13 AM

I see

I wonder what else I don't know

Martin - マーチン

I think it is reasonable to assume that we all don't know anything ;)

0

Q: Inspiration from Hacktoberfest

Hacktoberfest is a program to get programmers involved in the open source community. The idea is that by contributing to a number of projects during the month of October, members can receive a free t shirt and stickers. Would a similar reward system possibly work on Chemistry StackExchange? What ...

feature-request

You know, @MelanieShebel I almost went to Purdue

Who knows, maybe we would have had classes together

5:56 AM

I'm at a regional campus of Purdue. Tiny little place.

@ringo Sorry, forgot to tag you.

Oh? I wasn't aware Purdue had regional campuses

Is it far from Lafayette?

6:38 AM

@ChemExchange Thank you very much. We'll see what the voters decide.

7:15 AM

@ChemExchange Hullo @Chem! Welcome back

@ringo that I'm gonna be elected

O.O

0

Q: When are duplicate flags "declined"?

I flagged this as a duplicate of that. I m not asking why it is not considered a duplicate; I agree that it is not a duplicate. What is strange about it, is that I have never* seen a duplicate flag being declined before. They are either "helpful" or "aged away". When are duplicate-flags decl...

discussion flagging

Already 102 users voted. That's clearly better than the last election. :-)

7:31 AM

@Loong Alright, I prolly should say bye bye to mod status.

@Rubisco Why do you think so?

The higher rep here would usually mean being elected.

By here, I mean when a lot of one-time users come and vote.

yeah, higher reputation or higher candidate score

Martin - マーチン

well.... it's just on par right now with last year

@Loong Higher rep. I thought candidate score was really important, but it's not.

Martin - マーチン

7:34 AM

candidate score is meh

although, personally i would not vote for someone who has not achieved civic duty

It's what I observed from previous other elections.

Merely rep, and no help in moderation can gain you more votes than moderating and not gaining much rep

Alas

Whatever man. At the very least I can enjoy @Jan's meta post becoming moot

I should start thinking about those FAQ-y meta posts.

@Mart I was thinking we could write a couple of meta posts on how to write a good question.

Then link it to the frequent askers.

So they become avid askers.

After that, we should get back to the close reasons.

Martin - マーチン

@Rubisco with we you obviously mean you

I'd prolly open a meta post, gathering some ideas on what things we should be closing. I mean the things that were previously thrown a HW reason.

@Martin-マーチン ʕ ⊃･ ◡ ･ ʔ⊃︵┻━┻

Martin - マーチン

I had that absolutely crazy idea....

It's not that crazy. It's MY idea.

Anyway we could gather some ideas on that, and I think either data questions or Amirite questions would get the third CV slot.

Martin - マーチン

7:41 AM

I'm not talking about your idea... I'm talking about my idea. And you're supposed to ask "Oh, what idea?"

Hm, this question just became very broad: chemistry.stackexchange.com/posts/60644/revisions

@Martin-マーチン What idea, oh?

Should we reverse it? The original question already had an answer.

Yes, it sounds like it invalidates the answer.

Martin - マーチン

hang on... there's a flag on that

7:42 AM

I mean, broadens the thing to the extent that the answer is no longer a good answer.

Martin - マーチン

@Loong yeas, roll back and leave a comment

@Martin-マーチン done

I just discovered that in my Russian text, the word "microcolumn" really meant a pipette tip filled with a sorbent.

OMG

user image

Is this common practice, to call such tips "microcolumns"?

This explained the "repeated pipetting" over which I nearly broke my head

It could also be a centrifuge tube or a syringe body instead of a pipette tip, but I guess that would no longe be called "micro".

7:59 AM

@Loong So it is common to name different things "columns"?

I can just translate it as "microcolumn", and the English reader will understand that this is a pipette tip?

Martin - マーチン

@Loong thx

Or should I write "pipette tip" for better understanding?

@CowperKettle yes, "column" can be all sorts of things

For my thesis, I used these cartridges:

user image

Each one has 2 ml of resin.

ah, nice then, it's easy to translate it then without delving into details (0:

This is also a "column":

user image

8:04 AM

capillary zone electrophoresis?

no, gas chromatography

capillary GC column

Nice

I haven't yet come across such things in my translations

BBL!

pH13 - Yet another Philipp

@Rubisco google.com/…

@pH13-YetanotherPhilipp . . .

I regret asking that question in the first place

pH13 - Yet another Philipp

^^

8:15 AM

Hullo @Kau! Welcome to the Table!

!!greet/Kau

Welcome to The Periodic Table Kau! Here are our chat guidelines and it's recommended that you read them. If you want to turn Mathjax on, follow the instructions in this answer. Happy chatting!

user228700

@Rubisco Hi, thanks! :-) But I've been here before @Chemobot :P

@Kaumudi Don't recall

Martin - マーチン

coz you been busy getting elected

Yeah yeah

We'll see.

user228700

8:17 AM

@Rubisco I've been here so many times before! :-O @orthocresol will recall :-) So will Martin, Getafix and Ringo. I changed my avatar; perhaps that's why you don't remember me :-)

Well, I've changed my avatar and name as well, but I recall myself.

YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID

user228700

XD Sure, OK.

Have you voted in the election?

I'm too lazy to check.

user228700

No, not yet :-)

user228700

I've got a small question regarding valencies and the octet rule and it's about Boron. It's basically the exact same question that this person is asking:

user228700

8:20 AM

chemistry.stackexchange.com/questions/50381/…

Please vote for the 2016 moderator election.

7

user228700

@Rubisco I will :-)

user228700

I wasn't able to understand the answer to that question.

@Kaumudi I was able to understand it for you. Happy ending.

See, boron does form compounds with a full octet.

But those are usually complexes.

user228700

OK...

user228700

8:26 AM

And since the octet rule is just a rule of thumb, the fact that it doesn't have an octet in its compounds is OK?

But when it doesn't, and it can't, it's because it doesn't have the electrons to.

@Kaumudi Yes, it's okay.

You need to understand that compounds with full octet are stable.

user228700

@Rubisco Riight.

Those that don't follow octet aren't necessarily unstable, or worse, non-existent.

user228700

Right, yes, OK :-) Too often, the confusion arises because students(like my previous, confused self) think that the octet rule is a fundamental law. Thank you :-)

@Kaumudi Once you dig a bit further into this, you'd start forgetting about octet.

user228700

8:32 AM

@Rubisco Yes, OK :-) Thanks for ur help!

NP

@Rubisco surely you meant "vote in"

@orthocresol I prolly did.

"The 2016 moderator election" isn't a candidate.

But there's nothing bad in endorsing an election

8:34 AM

Boron chemistry is really complicated

:D

Arguably, it's sometimes better than organic

And fun

This is spam. Please flag as such. Don't comment. — Rubisco 7 secs ago

@Rubisco You can have both. But the interesting boron parts are inorganic...

On my way to collecting badges on Bio.SE

Pfft, do you even

Soon I'll be a network wide mod

Yes of course

8:58 AM

user image

benzy- lammonium?

and input data with only two significant digits, but they want a result with 0.4 % uncertainty

@Loong It's pronounced ben-zee-lam-monium.

=^.^=

user228700

Hi again! I'm reading up on how to best avoid mistakes while writing lewis dot structures for atoms and this list basically enlists some better rules.

user228700

The first step is to count the total number of valence electrons in a molecule.

user228700

The second is to decide which is the central atom(s) of our molecule, the third is to arrange the other atoms around the central atom so that the valency of the central atom is satisfied and the fourth step is to "distribute pairs of electrons b/w bonded atoms" and this step is giving me some trouble; how the heck am I supposed to know how many atoms to distribute as bond pairs, before distributing them to individual atoms as lone pairs?

9:14 AM

hi everyone

user228700

Hi :-)

@Kaumudi could you provide an example?

user228700

@DHMO Well, uh, it could be literally any molecule but let's go with a very simple one, $CO_2$.

@Kaumudi what does it become after the second step?

I mean the third step

user228700

@DHMO O_C_O and now I must distribute the 16 electrons among these three so that every atom's octet is complete.

9:17 AM

alright

so there are essentially 5 regions

aObCcOd

and e is the lone pair(s) on C

user228700

Yeah, the two Os, one C and the bonds in b/w, yeah?

a+b=8
b+c+e=8
c+d=8
a+b+c+d+e=16

should be quite easy to solve

(most unhelpful advice ever)

user228700

Oh, nooo :-(

i would just use the valencies of the side atoms

O has 6 valence electrons

so it needs 2 bonds

so a=4

and the 2 bonds can only be in region a

user228700

Right. Check valency of side atoms. But again, there are exceptions galore. Sigh. OK, thanks :-)

9:20 AM

yes

for example nitrate NO3^-

could you try this?

user228700

Odd number of electrons.

don't care about the parity

user228700

@DHMO Sure. Trying...

and it has an even number of electrons

because of the extra electron

user228700

@DHMO Yes, yes, sorry. Counted wrong :/

9:24 AM

well since it is an exception you wouldn't succeed...

user228700

I'm tempted to bond all three oxygens to the nitrogen atom but I know that Nitrogen can't share/accommodate those many electrons.

now

N wants 3 bonds

each O wants 2 bonds

except the O- which only wants 1 bond

so we could only accomodate one O and one O-

right?

user228700

Hang on...

O=N-O[-]

[-] is the charge

user228700

Ugh. Okay...where's the other O?

9:29 AM

now, N wants 0 bonds and O wants 2 bonds right?

I haven't accommodated the other O yet

user228700

Yup.

so, we use our secret weapon

the dative bond

it fills 0 bonds on one atom and 2 bonds on the other

user228700

Riight, yes. I'd considered that possibility...

have you learnt formal charges?

user228700

@DHMO Sure, I have.

9:32 AM

then you can use it also

another secret weapon is to assign formal charges so that now N and O both want one bond

user228700

Yup. OK. Thanks :-) I just need all the practise I can get.

now, octet deficient: NO2

@Kaumudi

user228700

Oh, sorry, I thought we were done. Yes, $NO_2$.

user228700

See, I found this website:

user228700

chemistry.umeche.maine.edu/CHY251/therules.html

user228700

9:43 AM

@DHMO It has one electron on N. Just one, that isn't bonded to anything, so half a lone pair.

10:27 AM

Anybody here comfortable with surface chemistry?

@DHMO @ortho @Rubisco ?

No.

Darn....

@orthocresol You still doing undergrad right?

@Rubisco Anyway, yeah, I agree with consolidating all the stuff we have on meta. To be honest, I was thinking that a lot of stuff on main can be consolidated, but that's one heck of an ambitious idea.

@AaronAbraham Yes.

Don't you guys cover surface chem too? Under Phys. Chem I mean @orthocresol

@Kaumudi BTW, "practise" is a verb and "practice" the noun in British English. Or, if you like American English, you can simply use "practice" as both verb and noun. But using "practise" as the noun is strictly incorrect. :)

10:33 AM

Whaa....

Advise-Advice.

@AaronAbraham It depends on the syllabus. And no, not really, except for a bit about liquid surfaces. I believe they used to teach the Langmuir adsorption model a few years ago, but I was too late for that. In any case, just like electrochemistry, I hate the topic, so I can't help with that.

@AaronAbraham Nope. But throw the question anyway, someone might come across and answer.

Americans suck at everything except simplifying unnecessarily complicated spellings.

@AaronAbraham Advice/advise is different. In both British and American English, advise is the verb and advice the noun.

The only part of physical chemistry that I genuinely like is QM.

?????

Just want to clarify something @orthocresol, @Rubisco you can pitch in too if you want...

The BET equation is for Chemisorption, right?

Don't know

10:39 AM

(@Rubisco, I'm doing you a favour by stalking pH13 in the g-block ;) )

Don't know

Brunauer–Emmett–Teller (BET) theory aims to explain the physical adsorption of gas molecules on a solid surface and serves as the basis for an important analysis technique for the measurement of the specific surface area of a material. In 1938, Stephen Brunauer, Paul Hugh Emmett, and Edward Teller published the first article about the BET theory in the Journal of the American Chemical Society. The BET theory refers to multi layer adsorption, and usually adopts non-corrosive gases (like nitrogen, argon, carbon dioxide, etc.) as adsorbates to determine the surface area data. It usually uses static...

Multilayer. So physisorption?

> The BET theory refers to multi layer adsorption, and usually adopts non-corrosive gases . . .

So physisorption?

@AaronAbraham No, it sounds chemical

10:40 AM

Aaaaargh!

Look, there's lots of things I know a little bit about, and I pitch in with my 2 cents. That's why I comment so much on main site. But this, I genuinely don't know anything about :)

Wait..."sounds" chemical O.o ?

1 min ago, by Rubisco

Don't know

....

Oh wait. It's physical

10:42 AM

Fuuuu

So...how are things going for ya? @Rubisco

Nowadays?

Things?

You know....*things*....

@Kaumudi but what are the other bonds?

Things! I thought you were talking about things.

Things are fine.

He isn't here @DHMO, now it's just you and me...

hehehe

(Rubisco, you're interrupting..)

10:47 AM

Boo

@Rubisco 'course I'm talking about things. Duh! But the thing you're talking about isn't the thing I'm talking about....

Something feels awkward about that last thing I said though...

No gore in this chat

user228700

@orthocresol Oh, sorry. Thank you! :-)

I'm a pacifist...you're an enzyme...big difference between us...

@AaronAbraham aren't you made of enzymes?

10:52 AM

Not completely though....

So technically, you're incorrect.

3:)

Alright

Hmm...you surrendered just like that? COME ON ARGUE WITH ME LIKE A MAN!

@Kaumudi have you studied (traditionally labeled) hypervalent molecules?

@Kaumudi No need to apologise at all. Your English is already pretty good.

(*MOLECULE)

10:54 AM

@AaronAbraham a molecule cannot argue

it just conforms

user228700

user image

@orthocresol You're a Brit?

user228700

@DHMO?

@AaronAbraham No.

@Kaumudi what is the difference between filled electrons and hollow electrons?

10:54 AM

"ApologiSe"

Instead of ApologiZe.

user228700

@AaronAbraham Dunno what u're talking about.

@Kaumudi he isn't talking to you

It was to @orthocresol

@AaronAbraham By that logic, everybody who speaks English is either British or American, depending on how they spell apologi(s/z)e.

user228700

@orthocresol Thanks :-)

10:55 AM

@AaronAbraham I'm sure you haven't heard of Australian spelling either

Now I'm confused...who's talking to who now?

a molecule is talking to a seal

@Kaumudi what is the difference between filled electrons and hollow electrons?

user228700

@orthocresol In countries that used to be colonies of the British, mostly British English is used.

@Kaumudi Of course. I am from one such country. :)

> Oxford, United Kingdom

10:57 AM

SEE! @orthocresol 'merica ?

orthocresol, Oxford, United Kingdom

12.9k 3 29 75

organic-chemistry homework physical-chemistry thermodynamics inorganic-chemistry reaction-mechanism stereochemistry

Ah...

user228700

@DHMO What is happening?! I responded to you only, @DHMO, saying that I dunno what u're talking about, when u say "hollow" electrons and all...

@AaronAbraham No.

@Kaumudi in your diagram, some electrons are filled and some electrons are hollow

10:58 AM

You can go down this list, one by one, and guess where I am from. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…

India?

Martin - マーチン

@Rubisco Sorry. I got distracted. My brilliant idea was to abandon the HW policy completely and substituting it with a CV: meh. And then just let terror reign. :D

user228700

Oh, crap, I just realized that I had responded to @AaronAbraham by mistake. Pinged him instead of @DHMO :-P

@orthocresol must I go one by one?

@DHMO If you do that, I am not going to respond. And no, not India.

10:59 AM

Happy reali(z/s)ation @Kaumudi

@orthocresol if I do what?

Ask me countries one by one.

Aussie?

I said can I not go one by one

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The Periodic Table

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