The Periodic Table

11:29 AM

How do i re-approve a rejected Edit ?

11:54 AM

@soundslikefiziks You can't.

@skillpatrol Words can't hold the awesomeness of chemistry.

12:52 PM

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Well, i accidentally rejected someone's 'suggested edit' so i wanted to reverse it, i could do that if i had more than 2K reputation

Martin - マーチン

2:37 PM

@soundslikefiziks no you cannot, once approved/rejected your vote has been locked

3:05 PM

@Martin-マーチン well then , i hope the edit suggester whose edit i rejected was not offended :D

3:36 PM

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Say, do you have problems having access to certain websites from iran ?

No because I use browsec.

but normally others do ?

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M i mean , if all citizens use browsec ....

There's a buttload of censorship.

But why ?

i mean , in israel we have a special network connection for religious people, they want all the sexual stuff and violence removed , so they choose to buy that sort of internet connection

Well, they take everything too "islamic"-ish.

3:39 PM

Yes, what i said also is directed to the extreme religious people in israel, but still it's a choice

In ours they're removed by default.

the free open web is open to everyone , the really religious people choose to have a "filtered" internet access

no facebook ?

no youtube ?

But the censorship also [wrongfully] affects legit sites so I prefer a workaround.

@soundslikefiziks Yeah.

@soundslikefiziks Yes.

haha

can you go to israel.co.il ?

i wonder if they block israeli websites too

Dunno. They must have.

3:42 PM

Do you know about the 1970's in iran ?

I understand what they're trying to achieve here, but this is not the way . . . (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

i know you're young

but still, you should look at some pictures from that period in iran

I know what it looked like here back then.

any pictures before 1978

It was very modern.

well, at least the fashion side

i really don't know how life was there for everyone , coz still people did not like the sha

Exactly.

He didn't deserve to be the king anyway.

3:44 PM

Yes well, neither does the current leader

or any leader after him

I don't care much for that part.

Well, this is where you are going to live in the future , no ?

at this pace you'll be a Chemistry teacher :)

All of the politics games make me sick and tired when I'm not going to be one.

one ?

Politician.

3:50 PM

Well, do you want to stay in the country ?

Not sure about that.

i mean , do most intelligent iranians want to stay ?

can stay in country and be oblivious to politics, cant we now ?

of course not

@soundslikefiziks Currently, yes.

Our country has moved on to paying attention to the more intelligent people.

But until we're copying industry and not making one, we're not gonna make progress.

3:52 PM

hi btw mar

I feel sad for you guys, i know how it is because in israel , if you travel to some areas, you can see the public opinion shifting towards extreme religious , but you always have a choice to drive back to were you came from and experience freedom again ...

\o

Actually, I believe there's merit in religion.

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M i really don't think it has anything to do with your economics , even in a poor country a person can experience the sense of freedom

The problem is the gap between what you believe (and i have muslim friends who are very open minded) and between what extremists believe

hmm, i feel religion has caused more pain in this world compared to anything good achieved.

Depends on what you call freedom, but the people here aren't religious to begin with.

Let alone extremely.

3:54 PM

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M What do you mean when you say people in iran aren't religious ??

@Gowtham It's because that's not religion.

@soundslikefiziks It's just the government that censors stuff. I believe 90% of the internet users don't want this censorship.

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M i believe @Gowtham is talking about all the violence that took place in the name of religion , i would love to say it's only in the 100B.C -1600 B.C period

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M I disagree, though am talking more than just violence

@Gowtham I agree with you.

@soundslikefiziks I believe violence is still being labeled as religion. Proof: What will your first thought be when you hear the word 'Muslim'?

3:57 PM

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M salam

That's where this word comes from

@Gowtham That's not religion, not what I worship at least. It's a mask, a tool that politicians use to control people easily.

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Well, he means that you can worship any way you want , and another muslim can worship any way he wants, but you both cannot use the same name to describe what you worship

@soundslikefiziks Then you're better than many . . . I believe the normal American/Israeli says Islam = terrorism

even in Judaism there are many different streams

Which i think should be considered as a NEW religion

There can't be "one book to rule them all" when everyone can freely interpret it any way they want.

Imagine what will happen if this happens in Chemistry

Systemic oppression, social injustice, superstitions etc was where i was getting at

3:59 PM

of course no book is perfect, many contain errors, but the scientific community is quick to admit it's errors and fix them

The Quran is different.

with a new revision

It's always general, nothing precise.

Are you saying the Quran is a book that does not need revisions ?

Yes.

4:00 PM

I doubt any book is.

Have you recited it?

btw belated eid mubarak ;)

Does it say anything about the spin of an electron ?

@Gowtham Thanks!

and when i hear muslim all i think is Briyani, Chicken ;) :P

4:01 PM

haha

@soundslikefiziks There are many things mentioned in it. Don't expected me to know all of them by heart.

There's a lot you can read from it.

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M can you learn chemistry from it ?

@soundslikefiziks No, because you won't even understand the mention of chemistry in it.

Wait, i first want to know if you are serious.

Lemme explain.

The Ayat (whatever that word is in English) are sometimes like this:

4:03 PM

Do you believe that a book written in the year 700-800 , by many scholars of that time, could be the only book in the world that needs no revisions ??

> <A message about worshiping Allah>

> <Some signs in the nature of his power>

> <So, do worship Allah>

even A fiction author today will have many things he would like to change about his already published book, but he can't coz it's not a science book, revisions are not usually applied then.

ok.

That's the writing style ?

It doesn't need revisions. Not because it's not about science.

Because as I said, the superficial meaning of the words is just some stuff like that: Worship Allah, for he did this and that etc.

There are no subtle meanings to it, at first sight.

I know what you mean when you honestly say "it's not about science" but wouldn't you agree that the word of god, the creator of the universe, the all capable being, would be nothing but science , and in levels so high in science that we have yet to reach

and not an ambiguous text that leaves so much room for confusion and gives less contribution to technology than let's say , the Pitagorian theorem

Or, in levels so high of understanding that we still can't reach.

4:07 PM

levels so high ?

higher than what ?

than our understanding ?

Why, in your opinion is Quran not precise?

The Quran is a book about the human behavior at those days and about how in those days there were (and still some) things a person should do, to be a better person to others

while i might have a problem with the concept of a prophet, i guess that was the best way (at the time) to make people to listen to you.

Isn't it because the creator didn't want future leaders to change its wording?

@soundslikefiziks You definitely haven't recited Quran.

I went through some verse about non-believers etc from a FB group. It was shocking to me. I think quran surely needs some editing on that non-believers part atleast. Though i maybe totally wrong or read a misinterpretation.

@Gowtham You did read a misinterpretation, since you did the reading in Facebook.

4:11 PM

But mixing the concept of creation and contributing it to individuals and claiming certain people as more devine, was just a way those days to get your word more widespread, will i tell you that things in that book come with a bad intention ? i don't think so, i think there is a great deal in many religion books to advance the human kind to being better people. but tha'ts about where the influence of the book should end.

People do everything to get more popular.

no , the link was in FB, it lead to translation sites of the book

Again, i only have the problem of attributing the "word of god" to it, while at less modern times it might have been the best way to get your message through, nowadays it's very deceiving.

@soundslikefiziks The current "Muslims" that are bombing places around the world certainly believe they're right; because they think they're interpreting Quran.

@Gowtham What did you read?

Was it "Fight and kill non-believers" or something like that?

i have no extra "bad emotions" associated with it, nor have i ever had. it's just a way to live your life. in todays times, the age of information, it should be much harder to claim divinity to one's self, and this is why i think knowledge is more easily widespread today

4:13 PM

yes, somehing like that i believe, trying to find the site

think it was 9:33 or someting

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M I am not talking about extremists at all, i wasn't even accusing anyone, just generally talking about religion and a book of religion.

@soundslikefiziks Well, people still don't know what religion is intended to be.

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M leave extremists and violent people out of this discussion please.

I will.

When you don't touch someone's money when they're not looking, you're a good guy.

I have no problems with what it's intended to be, as you can see i was also congratulating that effort in those days to wish the betterment of humans with teaching them religion. but i am saying, this was those times, and now things are different, people are much more exposed to information.

4:15 PM

You're being religious.

Because there is no good in leaving that money alone.

Is it?

And if i am doing that without believing in god, am i still religious by that definition ?

Yes.

So where does god come into the picture ?

Well, we call it a set of values.

detached from any divine entity

Muslims, (At least the Islam I believe in) believe for instance, Jews at the time of Moses will go to heaven.

Why should they go to heaven ?

4:17 PM

I'm not detaching or attaching any superior entity to this.

Heaven is a godly concept

That discussion is hot and interesting, but I'm too tired for that.

Maybe some other day.

Maybe :)

@soundslikefiziks So you're saying that death is the end?

I have problems believing in that.

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M no, i am saying i don't know.

4:18 PM

No one knows for sure.

Exactly

yep

No one that I've seen or know or have talked to, at least.

as long as one calls his belief a belief i have no problem with that

the problem starts when you use the word "fact"

like what you said about the Quraan needing no revisions, that would mean that this is the single most precise book in the universe

I've learned the pathway isn't always important, but the result is.

4:20 PM

with flawless arguments

And that is, to me a very problematic claim.

I haven't found any flaws in it.

No one has. Hmm, to Google!

Coming from judaism , i don't want to point our the number of contradictions our bible has. but it does have them and anyone claiming otherwise can be easily proved wrong

Are you saying that no one ever found any flaws in the Quraan ?

I am sure i can find it if i search it, but let's say that i won't , What about what i just told you about The jewish bible ? how can the quraan justify the bible while i am telling you there are contradictions in it?

isn't that a flaw by itself even without having to read the quran for that.

Muslims believe the Jewish bible has been altered.

who has the original form then ?

and how can the word of god be altered yet the quran claims to be untouched ?

> The Qur'an mentions numerous times that the sun and the moon travel in an orbit, but does not mention once that the earth does too. This is consistent with a earth-centered (geocentric) view of the cosmos that places a motionless earth at the center of the universe and all "heavenly bodies" travel around the earth. This was the prevailing understanding of the universe prior to the 16th century when Copernicus helped explain and popularize a sun-centered (heliocentric) view of the universe. Tellingly, the sun's orbit is always mentioned in the context of night and day.

4:24 PM

Do you see the inequality and convenience of these claims ?

Well for one that quote above is itself not accurate.

Well, the Quran also said the world is egg shaped

@soundslikefiziks Because Quran is general. Nothing specific. Again I say that.

@soundslikefiziks The problem of that text is that Arabs didn't know of the geocentric view.

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M and for that statement i replied , how can the word of god be non specific ? or be anything but specific ?

But what do arabs have to do with the Quran ?

@soundslikefiziks Why should it be specific?

4:27 PM

it was god speaking , is god an arab ?

or human ? or anything less than god ?

@soundslikefiziks If we don't attribute it to a divine force then it must be Arabs' work.

God is the "thing" that created every "things"

He didn't.

God didn't what?

He created laws. Laws now govern things.

4:28 PM

Who created him ?

If something else created him then how could he be the God?

Exactly, so Whatever created him is god

But what created whatever created that ?

That's the thing.

And then what created whatever created the thing that created the thing that created whatever muslims\jews call god ?

The root of the world 'Allah' means 'insanity'.

4:30 PM

what if that "god" that appeared to all the prophets was simply a tiny god

He says that 'if you think about me, you'll get insane'.

how would a human : muhammad , moses, abraham.... living 2000 years ago would even have the capacity to tell the difference between an alien from another planet , to the god almighty ???

He can't, heck even a modern person can't

@soundslikefiziks The same cycle can hold for the fact that if we believe such a thing to be, it must have existed before everything, and exist after everything.

How could such a thing be possible?

I don't think this kind of discussion would lead to any conclusion. There are hidden assumptions in each sentence.

The answer is that it is, but our minds is not good enough to imagine it.

4:32 PM

if someone from another planet comes here starts reading other people's minds , starts moving things with his powers (or highly sophisticated technology) then, Boom! he is "god"

No he's not.

or at least that what would gain him that definition 1000 years ago

Because he's limited to space.

That's the Chinese definition of God.

But how would you now know when you met god ?

@soundslikefiziks There are people on other planets! What are you saying?

4:33 PM

You can't meet him. That's the point.

@Kartik :D

So how did any prophet "hear" the word of god and know for 100% that it was god

How can you 'meet' someone when you can't understand his existence?

maybe it was "zartske" from planet X ?

He didn't.

using his new telephatic App on his iphone 1,000 ?

Exactly, so the quran cannot be the qord of god

or any book for that matter

Unless,

you say "i believe"

4:34 PM

Haha, I've heard these arguments before.

than i can't argue with that

@soundslikefiziks Now Its right

@Kartik we're not hurting anyone and the conversation is constructive, so why not?

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M I claim it is not constructive

But once you say "I have a book that needs no revisions!" then i say, ok ,that's not a belief anymore, that's a scientific claim.

4:36 PM

@Sound I'm not saying 'God is someone with superpowers that can freeze you in a millisecond'

@Kartik Then you don't know what 'not constructive' means.

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M then you are not talking about god, because god can even do that, heck, god could even be me right now having this discussion with you

god can be an ant or poop

regardless of how we "humans" see it

it's just that all the good things tend to be associated with god, even though he created many shitty crappy things too.

I'm saying 'there's something/someone up there. If I believe he's looking at me when I'm stealing something, and that would make me not steal it, then the result is good.'

@soundslikefiziks The shitty crappy things are needed for the blings to bling.

But i don't believe anyone is looking to me when i steal , and i still won't do that even if no one in the world knew it, because i would still know!

This is what i want all humans to feel.

I don't want to be afraid of the "day people stop believing in god" would be the day that they fear nothing and all hell breaks loose

@soundslikefiziks OK, why do they feel like that?

It's my turn to ask questions.

Ok, Who feels like what?

4:40 PM

Oh, I misread your message.

Why would you knowing you did a 'bad' thing stop you from doing it?

I just want t clarify one thing, i am saying "i don't know" about god, and i would have no argument to you if you were saying " i don't know either" . the problem is with the "i am sure! and what i believe is the universal truth!"

Believing is the easiest way to build yourself a motivation.

And motivation is all humans need to do great things.

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M i would like to say it's because of our parents, but that's not 100% accurate, it would be like saying , all humans are born bad unless they were raised differently , and that doesn't even happen with animals and i would like to believe we are better than animals at most and if not, we are at lease like them.

i can't argue with belief , anything you want to attribute to belief is again, your free right.,

@Sound imagine a scientific question.

You say 'what is the most abundant element in the universe'?

I just want to add.... it's like explaining why i love my GF.

4:43 PM

With the options:

H, Fe, Al, He

And i would say i believe it's H

I choose H because H3+ is the most abundant simple triatomic interstellar cation.

ok..

But you say "No you idiot. It's not because of that."

i wouldn't say "idiot"

4:45 PM

"It's because H is the lightest element and is the result of quarks smashing blah blah blah"

@soundslikefiziks "Imagine"

I say "I don't care, because I got the answer right."

That, is what I'm saying @Sound.

Now the question is analogous to life.

no , you missed one thing

?

the one with a proof would have the upper hand in here.

Not there.

Somewhere else.

When my reasoning won't work.

And the one with a proof that would agree to recalculate his proof would have an even upper hand in here, because he cares ONLY about the truth

4:47 PM

And what's so special about this truth hunt?

You have to understand that the truth about this universe cannot be bound to what feels good to a human or not

it cannot revolve around what a human thinks about it

That would easily be breakable if we ever find more life forms

i mean more intelligent than us

OK, so now imagine you found the truth: There's no God.

So what?

So it's depressing

What will this truth get you?

and feels no so good

4:48 PM

Precisely.

But now we can build a better future

So is there any good in trying to find something out that would depress you?

@soundslikefiziks How?

we can work together to create a place where humans feel overwhelmed that they will not feel lonely , and we would stop arguing about the existence of something that we no longer depend on for our happiness

@Mart haha look:

The Great Retagging Event - Episode 1: The one-taggers http://meta.chemistry.stackexchange.com/q/2940?atw=1

Tweeted by StackChemistry on September 25, 2015 at 10:02 AM

@soundslikefiziks Seems legit . . . On paper.

Humans adhere to what makes doing easier for them.

Yes, but not towards laziness

4:52 PM

Rationale isn't in control of everything.

I am NOT talking about Rationale

Well, let's review what you wanna do:

i am talking about non emotionally crippled human beings that would have the freedom to feel whatever they want to feel

First i want to say that i am not going to try and prove the non existence of god to any believer , this is just a discussion. i also think that might be a good thing to believe in if it takes away fears in your life.

I still am doubtful about the usefulness of such degrees of freedom.

It is just a discussion, I agree. :)

I just love arguing.

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M it's not about the usefulness it's about a different world which i do not have the founding stones to how it will work , but i do wish we would move towards that direction soon.

user161117

4:55 PM

I think for me this is an important question, if I have to decide between the truth or happiness I pick the truth

Haha I'm just a kid and am no expert in theology or atheology.

user161117

atheology?

user161117

haha

user161117

Most things in chemistry aren't real