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Bee
Bee
11:30
looks like I missed a busy night
@Bee Trolly McTrollFace certainly did a great deal
Bee
Bee
I just do not understand tbh @moto
@Bee me neither.. I just can't get me head around the mindset where doing this sort of sh#t would be considered "fun"
Bee
Bee
@moto clearly a bit of an attention whore
@motosubatsu "at long last my master plan of ever so mildly irritating a dozen or so people is complete"
3
smh
11:41
@Magisch Blofeld they aint
 
1 hour later…
12:48
It makes me a little frustrated to see questions like this one, where there is a clear and legally correct answer yet people who don't understand that are providing commentary and answers that have no basis in facts: workplace.stackexchange.com/questions/154728/…
I try to comment and add clarity when this happens but sometimes I wonder if I come off too strongly when doing so. What does everyone else think?
Bee
Bee
Nah I think you're good
It's always a shame to see the factually correct answer which clearly cites where the information is - isn't the top answer
@dwizum amen to that.. questions like that apply to the UK always drive me nuts for the same reason. You often get a great deal of US-centric or pub-expert rubbish.
While Joe hasn't fully cited the appropriate DoL info his answer isn't "wrong" in the same was another user's who is arguing in comments and repeatedly insisting on patently incorrect information
Yeah. I mean, to be clear, I like Joe's answer. I upvoted his answer and Dmitry's. What I don't like is comments (now deleted) saying things like, Americans are one step away from North Koreans. Or, answers that literally say "the employer can do whatever they want, too bad" or stuff like that. Those are just wrong, and portraying the US as a lawless wild west where anything goes and there are no employee protections is wrong and feels insulting.
Bee
Bee
I like both I just think that one which references the source deserves more praise
@dwizum I've seen plenty when teres a question about tipping and they go nuts about americans
Bee
Bee
13:02
@Tina there are a lot of rumours (at least here in the UK) about the american tipping system
There are a lot of rumors about it here in the US too!
@dwizum I mean, in a sense, if you're in a work contract with a big corp with mandatory arbitration provision the access-to-justice angle can become prevalent
@dwizum yeah.. I mean there are some pretty fast and loose ways that employment works in Yankland but that just makes it all the more important for sites like TWP to separate fact from fiction as it were
especially when the reality can very easily boil down to "they can do what they want, you can't afford to fight it, your options are take it or quit"
@Bee I hear you if you don't tip 10% they can legally take first choice of organs from your firstborn
Bee
Bee
13:06
@Mag that's definitely the impression I get from most of TWP US
@Magisch yes - but in the case where there's a clear law, I think we have the obligation to at least explain that what the employer is doing is wrong, instead of literally just saying "too bad, employers can do anything in America, there are no protections."
mind, for a lot of problems, it's also a "how big of a deal do I want to make this?" issue
yes, agreed
Bee
Bee
ahah @Moto I've heard if it's not 12% you have to let them move into your house
haha
13:07
I agree with you, there shouldn't be an answer that just claims its legal
because that's not true
I'm sure you've all seen the episode of The Office where Dwight explains that he never tips for anything he can do himself
@Bee yes but you don't have to give them the WiFi password and they only get one shelf in the fridge
2
Bee
Bee
I like the fact that non of the yanks on the chat have corrected us yet...
I'm just waiting to see how creative it gets first
Bee
Bee
I'm using that as conclusive evidence that it's true and will hold fast if I ever get to write and SE answer about US tipping
13:10
so far I think @motosubatsu is winning
@Bee they're too busy working out how much they have to tip the barista's mother for giving birth to them. It's a complex calculation that has to take into account whether the mother was receiving child support or not so it might take a while
imo a lot of the answers saying "this specific minor thing is illegal for your employer to do" neglect the "you'll have a terrible time if you take your boss to court over a minor overtime discrepancy" angle
Bee
Bee
yeah moto wins this round
@dwizum you're welcome, please remember to tip your chat comedian at 𝜋% (no rounding!)
I lived in England for a few months as an 18 year old, right when I arrived we were discussing differences in tipping culture and one of my local friends told me you have to tip everywhere in the UK, even for fast food. That made for a few days of hilarity before I caught on.
Bee
Bee
13:14
@dwizum oh you poor sod! You got done well and good
@motosubatsu no problem, let me go dig out my .15926535ths of a penny
Bee
Bee
Very funny though
@dwizum haha...that's such British humor
yeah
tipping is weirdly inconsistent here
13:15
that's what I get for moving in with a bunch of Geordies
@dwizum Wey aye, man!
2
Bee
Bee
@mag where is here
germany
Bee
Bee
Whenever I go abroad I tend towards "if in doubt - tip"
Rough Guides usually have a pretty solid section on tipping though
I made good money on tips but what kills you is they tax you on your checks and assume you've been tipped even if you haven't been. Most people are cool but I hear some cities like New York add the tip in because tourists don't know
Bee
Bee
13:19
@dwizum he said % and we're not paying him to be here so technically we're off the hook
@Bee good point, I guess any percent of zero is zero
Bee
Bee
@Tina I don't know if it's an old wives tale but I always tip in cash here because I was once told that it means the wait staff won't be taxed on it
@dwizum Quite!
@Bee it kind of depends on how the place runs payroll and how much tipping gets reported. Sometimes it can work against you
I had nights as a bartender where I'd take home $1,000+ in tips for a single night and only pay a few dollars in taxes, and other nights at another place where I'd take home maybe $100 a night but end up paying $50 in tax
Bee
Bee
But I guess that people will never come off worse because you've tipped cash right?
@Bee yeah I generally tip in cash as it makes it harder for unscrupulous businesses to skim or otherwise prevent the tip going to the server
13:27
I heard before that some servers in the US have to tip out the other staff, so pay e.g 10% of the sale volume of tables they handle to be divided between the other staff, and keep the rest
Bee
Bee
@moto I do like it when you know the tips are shared with the person who prepped the meal too though
so if you don't tip serving you can end up costing the server money
(thats what I heard from a friend of mine who used to work as a server in the US)
Bee
Bee
My friend used to work for a youngs and they share all tips between all the staff in
@Bee the case when you can come off worse is basically if it's perceived that you were tipped a large amount of cash (and then they tax you on those tips) but you really didn't get much tipping at all, you get taxed on the amount they think you got tipped. So, yeah, you're right, you can never be punished for being tipped in cash, but sometimes you get taxed as if you were, when you weren't
Kaz
Kaz
@Magisch I remember a question asking "can my boss say this to me" to which I replied "Your boss can say whatever the hell they like. Unless you're willing to sue them in court, nobody's going to stop them". It wasn't particularly well received.
@motosubatsu Sure, you can have 0.00000314 BTC, just as soon as you pay the ~0.00001 BTC transaction fee ^^
13:48
@Kaz of course.. just remember that all transaction fees are subject to a (non-refundable, non-alcoholic, gluten free, non tested on animals) admin charge of 547,364.77 IRR per fee
plus tip (natch)
natch
Have any of you spent any time with SEDE?
I think I know who the troll is, and I've got a query in mind to support my theory but I'm not quite talented enough to actually write it
14:04
@dwizum I think our resident party parrot is the expert
but I can have a go?
yeah basically I want to be able to specify a list of user IDs in a query and see how the timelines of their activities line up (i.e. were they ever active at the same time)
and just to be clear, this is much more for my own curiosity than out of any desire to actually make a serious suggestion of who the person is, publicly, or any sort of actual action against anyone
I might just grab a text list of activity dates and do the comparison in another tool
@dwizum hmm.. let me have a quick play
I'm not even sure where deleted stuff lives in SEDE though, if I search for a deleted post by ID, I get nothing
something like:SELECT
OwnerUserId
FROM
Posts
WHERE Posts.CreationDate NOT IN
(SELECT CreationDate FROM Posts WHERE OwnerUserId IN ('1','2','3')
that would (in theory) give you all the userids who posted at the exact same time as userid 1, 2, and 3
sorry that "NOT" shouldn't be there
yeah, the trick is I wanted to check for "sequential" activity, i.e. every time user 1 does thing X, it's within a few minutes of user Y having done something
14:18
@dwizum that's going to be trickier - depending on what the things X are
I know I can get it once I have the raw data, I just need to find where in SEDE the deleted stuff ends up. I can't find it anywhere. It's not in POSTS and it's not in POSTHISTORY at least
I'll put the data in a calendar heatmap in PowerBI once I have it, it should be obvious if there's a pattern or not
Also, does anyone know the date on which the first instance of this spammer showed up?
@dwizum hm?
I'm pretty experienced with SEDE
@Magisch do you know where deleted content goes? Like, a deleted question?
there's a questionswithdeleted table
I think
yeah, that looks like just a tally of deleted things related to questions (i.e. a count of how many comments have been deleted from a question), not a list of actual deleted questions
this question is deleted, and isn't in POSTS or POSTSWITHDELETED or POSTHISTORY: 154669
I'm not sure if deleted content is stored permanently, since once a deleted question is a certain age (a few days?) you get a 404
so this whole idea might be moot
14:36
yeah
I never mucked around with post content much, just votes and voting heuristics
that would be an interesting angle as well
do you know why the userid column is mostly null on VOTES?
I suppose it makes sense to hide who cast a vote so that it remains anonymous, but some votes have USERIDs
@dwizum depends on type
up and downvotes are anonymous (naturally), close and favorite votes are not
you can see who received the vote via the post id, but not who cast it
14:53
ah, that makes sense
I'm confused about something in my rep alert tracker in the SE bar at the top of the screen:
It shows a -19 on a recent answer I posted (yikes!), but that answer itself shows two upvotes and two downvotes. Is that users being removed, or something like that?
@Upper_Case if you go to your profile -> Activity -> Reputation -> Time it should show you a breakdown of the changes
Go to your user profile with ?tab=reputation at the end of the URL and it gives a play-by-play explanation of points
@motosubatsu jinx
@dwizum pfft.. I got there first, you're just being a sore loser :)
details...
15:01
@motosubatsu Ah, that makes it clear. My answer was accepted and then unaccepted, so that's where the extra -15 came from
Thanks!
@Upper_Case no problem :)
 
2 hours later…
Bee
Bee
16:34
Just discovered my temporary work laptop is touch screen
This is a wild ride
I don't really get the point though unless you're in like a specialist field
@Bee on "traditional" laptop form factors I think it's more of a gimmick then anything else - on laptop/tablet hybrids though it's much more useful (obviously)
17:25
In some cases I've even found it distracting, when someone tries to point at a laptop screen and unintentionally moves the mouse. We have a touch sensitive screen in our main conference room here, and no one seems to remember it's touch, so it's a pretty frequent thing that people will go to point at a graph or something and inadvertently click on it.
At home though my chromebook is touch and I love it!
17:46
Did quotes just changed in appearance?
> did they?
;)
I mean, on site, not chat
They were yellowish
I can't check, I'm using Sam's dark mode on all sites
since you're here, there's a discussion in charcoal HQ you might be interested in
about 3 flag spam limits
I remember some issues we had the last time
34
Q: Please revert the quote background from white to yellow

Mark JohnsonAt some point during the day, quoted background, in I assume CSS, has been switched from yellow to white. This is harder to find within an existing text, since the background color is the same for the whole text. For some, white is harder on the eyes anyway together with the thin letters. I...

17:49
39
Q: Some improvements to blockquotes

Aaron ShekeyUpdate Sorry for the delay! I’ve been thinking about this feedback in between my other projects, and I’ve landed where I’ve started 😕 I’ve made sure to continue highlighting spoilers in gray. The differentiation from normal blockquotes is super important since their behavior is so different. I...

I could swore that yesterday they were still yellow here on TWP
css changes sometimes lag
might be caching
I know at work where we have a web based ERP systems our css changes always take time to propagate no matter how hard we try to invalidate caches
Anyways, I think yellow was better
More readable
join the dark(mode) side
:D
glorious reduced eyestrain
Neo
Neo
18:29
We are asking for the threshold to be dropped to 3 for those items flagged as spam
the key is to FLAG THEM AS SPAM
 
1 hour later…
19:38
Yeah I want the yellow back
This new blockquote look is crap. It makes long answers look more like a wall of text and doesn't break things up visually like the yellow background did
 
2 hours later…
22:03
0
Q: We should have a flag or close reason of 'Trolling'

KilisiThis seems a reasonable idea to me, perhaps even with a lower threshold than other flags. The suggestion of flagging as 'Spam' is factually incorrect.


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