The Water Cooler

angarg12

06:25

Another case of "tell me what I want to hear"? workplace.stackexchange.com/questions/94366/…

to be honest I'm a bit disappointed that my answer wasn't accepted :(

0

Q: Is it unethical for me, under stated contract, to not tell my employer I finish my job in 10hrs per week?

I work in academia and the way contracts work here is that we have to do research, teaching, and service (for those not familiar with academia, service is like administrative work). Nowhere in the contract are the weekly hours stated. In fact, sometimes we have to work at night (for example teach...

ethics

sight

angarg12

06:43

@SoylentGray right now one of my hats is consulting for cloud, agile and devops, but I honestly, from the bottom of my hearth believe in the benefits of these technologies

and one of my first advice is don't adopt technologies and processes by the book just because!

first analyse your problems, and then look for possible solutions

Magisch

07:52

Jesus H. Christ

Polymorphic code in VBA is the worst to debug and reverse engineer

This one list right

it works but it rewrites itself when you filter it and click buttons

and there's a function that isn't actually a function involved too

crashes my access when I put break points on it

@RichardU I need the emergency flamethrower

I have recursive and polymorphic VBA code that is so outlandish it crashes my debugger when I try to debug it and rewrites itself dynamicly

angarg12

sounds lovely :)

Magisch

oh so it doesn't like being used in the direct window either

Kaz

09:16

@Magisch What kind of person writes recursive, polymorphic code in VBA!

I don't think even Satan is that evil.

angarg12

09:37

smbc-comics.com/comic/punishment

Magisch

09:50

Now that's just messy

There is a function, getStepType3, that references itself, getStepType2, getStepType4 and getStepType5, but not getStepType1

Not even that complicated but the guy really loves recursion

Kaz

11:14

Just an intuition:
I would take good odds that the UK/USA enter a new recession in the next year.

Such things are, of course, difficult to forecast accurately, but I see things like this:

Magisch

@Kaz US recessions always ripple in europe, so europe will most likely be affected as well if it comes to that

Kaz

And I wonder just how long the stock market can continue to defy gravity.

Magisch

As long as we prop it up

Kaz

For reference: That graph is the S&P 500 vs the Economic Surprise Index (A measure of whether economic indicators come in above or below expectations)

Magisch

The last 15 or so years we've propped it up with legislation and financial action designed not to increase overall economic value, but to shift that value from the 99% to the 1%

And it has worked spectacularly

But like everything in real life the amount of ressources we have and our means of harnessing them are both very finite, so it can't go on forever

Kaz

11:25

@Magisch I actually disagree there. Our raw materials may be finite, but our ability to use them more efficiently keeps increasing.

Magisch

@Kaz Even then, there is always a cap

If you have 1kg gold, the most you can use to 100% effect of that is 1kg, regardless of how good your technique gets

Kaz

@Magisch Sure, but I put the cap at "Complete geo-engineering of the entire planet".

Magisch

We're still quite some ways off from anywhere close to 100% in most of our processes, but there is a cap

@Kaz Do you actually think humanity is capable of coordination on that scale?

We can't even get a climate deal passed because of scarcity of ressources and that is only poised to increase.

Kaz

@Magisch Assuming we aren't wiped out in a 3rd World War / Engineered Super-Plague / Complete Societal Collapse, yes.

Every generation that goes by, the scale of things that people build on this planet keep increasing.

W/rt climate change, I'm actually very confident that it will be solved.

Not through coordinated international action (which I largely dismiss as not solving the actual problem)

But through stuff like this:

That's the cost of generating electricity from various sources. The plummeting grey line is the cost of Solar.

My philosophy is: If you want the whole world to run on renewable energy, then just make it more profitable than running on coal, and the market will take care of the rest.

We're not quite there yet, but we're getting close.

angarg12

they call it the "solar singularity"

I also see another economic crisis brewing in the next 2 years tops... I wish I could migrate to the US before it happens!

Magisch

11:47

@Kaz It will be solved either way

If that solution is a large scale reduction of human population or something we come up with, that is the question

Kaz

@Magisch Deliberate population reduction is not a solution. Because it will never be done voluntarily.

Magisch

@Kaz I mean the changing circumstances of our environment will kill a whole bunch of people off

That's what I mean by large scale reduction of human population

at some point our engineering will fail and people will start to die off until it's sustainable again

Kaz

@Magisch "Climate change will eventually solve itself" is also not a useful solution, because it doesn't give us anything useful to do in the meantime.

Magisch

@Kaz Ideally, we'd do something about it, but as with everything that involves people having to give up wealth or potential wealth, it ain't gonna happen

Ever

If we wanted to be serious about continuing the earth in its comfortably liveable state we'd have to massively cut our lifestyle, our consumption and our numbers. We probably need to lose at least two thirds of our current population to make that feasible

But eh maybe someone will come up with something that makes easily harnessable pratically infinite energy and then we'll be a post scarcity society

Kaz

@Magisch Or increase our efficiency. Which is the option that is always ignored despite being the one that has actually been proven to work throughout all of human history.

Magisch

11:57

@Kaz As I already said, that is only postponing the problem, not solving it

Kaz

@Magisch Postponing the problem for 100 years is pretty much equivalent to solving it.

Magisch

If climate change keeps pace we stand to lose a giant chunk of our livable landmass within 200 years alone

@Kaz From your individual point of view yes, from a larger point of view, no.

Where do you think the some 1 billion people living in coastal areas will go once their homes are flooded?

Kaz

@Magisch I think that's not a helpful way of looking at the problem.

Magisch

@Kaz To be honest I think at this point we're past any solution. We'll just have to let nature and the ecosystem run its course and hope we don't go extinct in the process

Or maybe we do, it doesn't matter either way

Kaz

@Magisch So what, sit back, don't even bother trying, and just wait for the apocalypse?

angarg12

12:02

guys, it's none of my business, but I think we may be getting way offtopic for the chat

Magisch

Good point

Kaz

@angarg12 That is a fair point.

Richard U

12:37

@Magisch That goes beyond the eight circle of hell, you're right next to Judas now.

Just a general comment on the above conversation, trying to predict the future use of resources is like trying to catch a black cat in a dark room, where there is no cat, and then proclaiming to have caught it.

Kaz

13:22

So the office printer just stopped working...

And we don't know how to fix it...

And we have no backup printer...

motosubatsu

@Kaz ... congrats! The paperless office has finally arrived!

Nzall

> Is it ethical to use unofficial channels to bypass or expedite official B2B support channels?

would that be on-topic? As a question, I mean

Richard U

@Kaz The lack of redundancy of critical systems never ceases to amaze me.

Nzall

@RichardU If you're a small company, you usually don't have more than 1 printer

or at least, more than 1 office-grade printer

Richard U

@Nzall If you're a small company, and can't afford 50 bucks for a backup printer, you need to close your doors.

and you don't need office grade as a backup.

just something to print out critical documents. Cheap lazer printer for 50 bucks at Staples when it's on sale

Nzall

13:32

@RichardU it's less about the money and more about whether a printer is critical for a small company

Like, there are very few documents these days that need to be printed. Pretty much only things that need to be signed or displayed somewhere

but about my first comment: would a question on that premise be on-topic for this stack?

Kaz

@Nzall For some companies, maybe, but we work in Private Client Financial Advice

Lots of paperwork.

Nzall

or should I just go "I'll post it and if it's deemed not relevant, it's just extra work for the moderators"?

Kaz

@RichardU It's less "Can't afford" and more nobody thinks of a printer as a critical piece of hardware, and small-company mentality is always to avoid spending money wherever possible.

I'm working on changing said mindset, but it's slow going.

I have recently convinced management to start spending £1,000 per new computer though, that was a big win.

Only took about a year of lobbying ^^

@Nzall It sounds On-Topic, though I'm struggling to see how ethics apply.

Nzall

@Kaz A) you're turning a support issue into a public PR issue; B) you're setting a precedent and are possibly inconveniencing the other company

With "unofficial channels", I mean complaining on social media, asking social media whether they know an insider who can help, or both at the same time

And you might also be running afoul of things like established support contracts you're unaware of

but given that you say it sounds reasonable, I'll just ask and let the community sort it out

Richard U

@Kaz Yeah, nobody thinks of security either until they get hacked. I warned one company I worked for, they ignored me and got hacked the very way I told them they were vulnerable.

Nzall

13:46

@RichardU relevant CommitStrip:

@RichardU Did you send them an email or other documented communication to prove that yes, you did mention this to them before they got hacked?

Because at that point, the important thing is to make sure you're not the one they blame

0

Q: Is it ethical to use unofficial channels to bypass or expedite official B2B support channels?

Anyone who has spent any reasonable time on Facebook or Twitter probably saw it happen already (or even did it themselves): Someone has a problem with a product; The company producing the product has received a request via official support channels, but can't or won't act on it; The problematic...

communication ethics

in case you guys were interested in the question I asked.

Richard U

@Nzall I wasn't working in an IT capacity and had no email, but I did let management know and demonstrated the vulnerability. Couldn't be blamed.

But, yea, as per that comic.....

Nzall

@RichardU is that why you used the past tense?

Richard U

@Nzall Yep. Good riddance to them too. They fought my unemployment claim too. I don't care, they're going to be out of business soon.

Nzall

Let's run a local build before doing a 4 PM commit on a Friday

Feeds

1

Q: Should "what should I do" with an answer of "consult a lawyer" be closed as a legal question?

I saw Employer wants me to write down "I accept the termination" on my termination paper was closed as being a legal question. Now the question itself doesn't ask "is this legal", which would obviously be a legal question that has no place here. The question is more "what should I do", which see...

discussion on-topic-definition legal-questions

0

Q: can this question be saved?

Are there proven approaches for creating a healthy work relationship with huberistic and self entitled individuals? It's on hold, and I think there may be something in there worth saving, but not without a heavy edit. I have an idea, but I don't know how much help I could do with an edit. Is t...

discussion

Kaz

13:59

@Nzall fyi, I edited your title because "unofficial channels" covers a lot of channels, whereas you question is focused solely on public channels / social media.

For instance, "unofficial channels" in my company generally means "call some relevant senior person we know in the other company and ask them to get it expedited".

Nzall

@Kaz Thanks, that's probably more accurate

@Kaz I'd personally call that "escalation"

Kaz

@Nzall There's official escalation, and then there's "I'll call the CEO, he's a personal friend".

Nzall

And as I edited into my question, I'm assuming that escalating to second line support, supervisors and managers already failed

@Kaz In my perspective, that's still escalation, just not through official channels

I consider escalation to be "support can't help me, so I'll either ask them to give me someone who can, or I will seek someone like that out myself"

Richard U

14:29

I got my phantom downvoter again, LOL! never a comment, just sneaks in, down-votes and goes on his merry way.

Kaz

@RichardU I'm surprised you only have one ^^

motosubatsu

@RichardU I seem to suffer from that as well...

Richard U

@Kaz so am I, I think I'm second only to Kilisi in gruffness.

@motosubatsu yeah, anyone with anything worth saying accumulates haters

motosubatsu

@RichardU holy shit... did you just say something nice about me? Gotta be careful there you do have a reputation for severe and scathing grumpiness to maintain you know! :)

also there is JoeFact #412 to consider: "anyone with anything worth saying accumulates haters - except Joe"

Richard U

@motosubatsu yes, well, I do have the occasional "pet the dog moment", I've read the "evil overlord list", you know I also occasionally dress in bright and cheery colors, to confuse my enemies.

motosubatsu

14:38

well blood is red, and red is a bright color....

Richard U

Joefact #347: When joe gets a downvote, the system automatically corrects the error.

2

motosubatsu

:D

LangeHaare

do any of you guys work in financial services/know any good informal forums etc for people who do?

basically I have done for the past 6 weeks and would be useful to have more experienced people to chat with about it, including perspectives from other workplaces (obviously I can chat with my colleagues too)

Kaz

@LangeHaare HI!

I'm a UK-Based Quant

LangeHaare

@Kaz me too!

Kaz

14:49

@LangeHaare Ooh, whereabouts?

LangeHaare

@Kaz oxfordshire

Kaz

@LangeHaare Cool. I'm over in St Albans (Hertfordshire).

LangeHaare

@Kaz Cool! How long have you been doing this kind of stuff?

Kaz

@LangeHaare About 4 years.

Richard U

we have four reopens for this, can we get a fifth?

6

Q: Employer wants me to write down "I accept the termination" on my termination paper

This question basically builds up on this question My employer wants me to write down "I confirm having received the termination and I accept it" on my termination paper. As I'm not happy at all with the termination and this basically throws me into unemployment I'm struggeling to write that. ...

termination switzerland

motosubatsu

14:52

@RichardU done!

Kaz

@motosubatsu Argh! Beat me to it ^^

@motosubatsu So, what do you do?

motosubatsu

@Kaz moi? I'm a .NET developer, currently working as a contractor

Kaz

Nice, I'm a 1-man Quant/Analyst/Programmer/Excel Guru/Smart-Guy-Who-Understands-Computers-And-Gets-Things-Done

It's a small company, I wear many hats ^^

motosubatsu

cool... you maybe need a snappier job title though :)

LangeHaare

I just wear one very small hat

(comes with being Jewish, I suppose)

Kaz

14:56

@motosubatsu My official title is "Quantitative Analyst". Though we recently hired me a subordinate, so "Senior Analyst" would also be appropriate at this point ^^

motosubatsu

I've been-there-done-that on the multiple hats front, in fact I've had it taken to extremes in previous roles. Hence I now contract - I get to wear just the one hat and have have more pay for less stress :)

@Kaz Senior Quantitative Analyst has a nice ring to it :)

SoylentGray

@angarg12 Ohh I get it completely... One meeting this week was about moving our SAN to the cloud... I just facepalmed.

Kaz

@motosubatsu Except we don't really have a Junior Quant, just an intern.

Richard U

what's a quant?

motosubatsu

@Kaz sshh... that's between you and your resume :)

Richard U

14:58

could someone please translate English to English for me?

Kaz

@RichardU "Quantitative Analyst". Wall-Street speak for "Numbers Guy"

motosubatsu

@RichardU it's like a Qual but more measurable

LangeHaare

someone find that clip from the big short where he's racistly introducing his quant

Kaz

The Big Short Clip - That's My Quant

►

LangeHaare

confession: I was doing a PhD in statistics and watching that film started a weird sequence of events that led to me getting this job :-P

DCON

15:04

Hey, I watched that movie over the weekend- having never heard of it before it's suddenly come up like 4 times since then- this being the fourth...

Kaz

@LangeHaare I randomly interned here doing data entry back when it was 2 financial advisers and a couple of secretaries. Went off to study maths for a year, discovered that academia is not my kind of environment, came back, and in the intervening year, they'd merged, founded a company, and needed someone to do grunt work for the CIO.

@DCON It's an awesome movie :)

DCON

@Kaz I know I really enjoyed it :)

Kaz

That was 3 years ago ^^

@LangeHaare What brought you to the Water cooler?

BlueBarren

@DCON fellow intern, eh?

I was just reading your most recent question

DCON

Yeah, it's paid though so it's alright ;)

BlueBarren

15:11

So is mine!

It might be law in Canada though or something because all the post secondary institutions in my area mandate that internships through their schools are paid

DCON

Lucky us! I have classmates who are earning €1 an hour in different part of the country :o

in Ireland it's not required to pay, but most do, especially for software internships

LangeHaare

15:26

@Kaz mix of procrastination, and wanting people to talk to about finance life and just general work motivation stuff

SoylentGray

16:19

@Kaz have you seen billions?

Kaz

@SoylentGray YES!

Magisch

@RichardU Friend of mine got canned for doing that. Then the company tried to sue him because they argued since he pointed it out he obviously was the one wo hacked them

SoylentGray

Its actually my current binge

Magisch

Went nowhere, but still

Kaz

@SoylentGray It's on my list of TV shows I regularly check up on.

Said list:
Billions
Rick & Morty
Game of Thrones
Better Call Saul
Silicon Valley
Daredevil
Suits

LangeHaare

16:26

@SoylentGray just looked it up, can't believe I haven't heard of it, looks like something I'd be really into!

Kaz

@LangeHaare It's absolutely awesome!

SoylentGray

@LangeHaare And I think damian lewis is perfect for that role

LangeHaare

will have to check it out this weekend :-) is it on netflix or amazon streaming (in the UK)?

Kaz

@LangeHaare I'm not sure.

I think it's on Sky

SoylentGray

its on amazon if you have showtime

I dont know about netflix

LangeHaare

16:33

I'll find it somewhere

So what kind of place do you work @Kaz? not a fund manager I presume?

Kaz

@LangeHaare Joint Financial-Adviser and Discretionary Fund Manager.

LangeHaare

So there's a lot on your shoulders as the only quant!

Kaz

Last time I checked, we're about 0.02% of the UK's Private Wealth Management Industry. So, still a ways to go, but growing crazy fast.

@LangeHaare Ish. We've got 2 very experienced directors. One spent 10 years managing a Billion-Dollar fund for M&G.

But yes, I get to have a lot of impact :)

LangeHaare

fair enough!

I think we've got about 0.1% of the uk asset management industry's AUM

Kaz

16:56

@LangeHaare Yay for the Underdogs!

At the rate we're going, we might get to 1% by the time I'm 30 :D

LangeHaare

how old are you now?

29 years and 360 days?

Feeds

17:43

0

Q: Should I "refactor" my answer into separate answers? If yes, how?

For this question NSR Certificate Verification, I suggested in the comments that my older answer here If I don't have a relieving letter from a job, should I exclude those years worked from my total experience? would be helpful1. However, I read the older question (which I had edited too) and m...

discussion specific-question specific-answer

BlueBarren

18:26

ugh the guy who sits behind me is really annoying

he just has a loud existence

like he yawned right now and it sounded like he was trying to eat the air

2

Christopher Estep

19:01

@Kaz stop making me feel old. (or reminding me that I am, rather)

David K

I need to stop responding to Fattie before I start violating the Be Nice policy

Richard U

19:17

@Magisch The place I worked was so insecure, it could have been hacked by a Speak-and-Spell

@DavidK He's going to earn himself a visit from the mods soon.

David K

@RichardU He isn't doing anything rude or offensive, it's that everything he says is "OMG THAT IS THE WORST YOU HAVE TO ABSOLUTELY DO THIS" or "you're working in a startup and 95% of them fail so you just quit now"

he has no idea what he's talking about but gives advice that is so absolute and generalized

the incarnation of the dunning-kruger effect

Richard U

@DavidK He's had at least one answer down-voted to -17 that I saw, and in his comments he can be quite rude. I've had about 10 of his flagged as not constructive so far, and upheld. Now, I know I have poor social skills, but this guy makes me look like Emily post in comparison.

@DavidK AGree, a living avatar of dunning-krueger

David K

@RichardU He's also had a couple 100+ answers too

but if you throw enough spaghetti at a wall, something's going to stick

Richard U

@DavidK yeah, but HNQ helped him too

David K

no doubt

Richard U

19:30

I'm not impressed unless your high-scored answers beat the popularity of the question.

David K

Well, that is the case for one of them 112 answer, 58 question

that one's not a bad answer, but the language still annoys me

anyway, there's probably not much we can do aside from aggressively flagging and downvoting when needed

Richard U

@DavidK and hope he's self-aware enough to get the message.

David K

@RichardU I wouldn't hold my breath

Richard U

19:50

@DavidK I feel your pain. It kind of reminds me of Sheldon Cooper from the Big Bang theory, thinking that because you're good at some things, that there is a halo effect that spreads to others.

Kaz

20:52

@LangeHaare 23 ^^

Kaz

21:08

@ChristopherEstep I'm 24 in a few months if that helps ^^

Christopher Estep

21:20

@Kaz I have 6 kids that are older than you, so not really. :)

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