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12:15 AM
@jmac: Perhaps for the first time, I'm concerned about the quality of questions coming in.
3 hours later…
2:46 AM
Q: Testing proposal: automating review of answers that fail to meet site-specific guidelines

gnatPosted on behalf of jmac. The idea to test automating review of answers that fail to meet site-specific guidelines has been proposed by SE Community manager here: let's test this first, see where it works and where it falls apart, and then implement the system that emerges. Pick a site you'r...

If anyone has experience with the data explorer, it would be interesting to get some results on the post notice experiment to see how much of an impact it has and whether the amount of input put into this machine is worth the output.
@MonicaCellio - Well said. I love the way you worded this:
> Some sites suffer the double whammy of (a) being more subjective (answers are hard to verify) and (b) covering topics where everybody thinks he's an expert. Most of us work, so we're obviously qualified to answer any question on The Workplace. Any parent is obviously qualified to answer questions on Parenting. Anybody with some religious background is obviously qualified to answer questions about the bible. Or so the theory goes -- but it's wrong.
@jmort253 thanks. We actually don't have the worst case of this on the network (IMO); that'd be hermeneutics. But it's a big problem for us and for others, and Shog -- who mostly pays attention to SO et al -- needs some help in seeing it. I don't appear to have convinced him, but others can help too.
@MonicaCellio The results of the experiment will tell us a lot.
@jmort253 agreed. And we need baseline data before we run the experiment. So the question we need to answer before we can get started is: what exactly do we want to measure?
Good question. I see two different but related issues. (1) Getting more regular users involved in answer moderation independent of the up/down voting, and (2) allowing users with lower quality posts more time to edit and improve before they're ultimately deleted, which involves creating another feedback loop to hold them accountable.
#2 is where I think Shog has raised the most questions.... if adding post notices to things doesn't make all that much difference, then we should scrap that idea completely.
But #1, I feel like separating answer moderation from answer voting is key on sites like this.
Unless we raise the upvote threshold to 1000 lol....
3:02 AM
So one set of data revolves around what happens after the post notice goes up: does the author edit? Does somebody else edit? Does the post receive no edits and get deleted? Receive no edits and not get deleted? And how long does all this take?
Another set of data revolves around community participation: who (and how many) votes to add post notices, who helps fix posts? (Votes are secret so we'll never get downvote data.)
I don't know if flagger identity is available in SEDE; I suspect not, since it's not public on the site.
@jmort253 agreed -- if the notices don't result in enough posts getting fixed, then we should bag that and go straight to deletion -- but recognize that we'll need mod-deletions for a while yet even though it's supposed to come from the community (all, what, 4 of them right now?).
@MonicaCellio - Today's Thursday, and there are only 2 editors for the week. (Although I think this doesn't show editors below a certain number... not exactly sure how this page works...)
That can't be right.....
@jmort253 yeah. We need better tools for the community to moderate answers, independent of voting.
@MonicaCellio If it comes down to it, we might need to.... tolerate... some low quality stuff for awhile....
3:06 AM
@jmort253 I don't know if self-edits are included, and that'll be key for this experiment.
Everyone here has been incredibly patient, but I can tell you that any mods that get elected would be in danger of being burned out. This has been an intense few weeks.... :)
@jmort253 the biggest challenge there is coming back to it. We delete bad posts now because if we decide to wait we may never find them again. That's not ideal; better to give people a chance to fix. But without auto-delete-if-not-fixed, or an alarm, or something like that, it's not scalable. For the experiment we can do something like maintain a date-ordered list on meta, but that's a workaround.
I haven't played around with the data explorer too much... that's usually @jmac or @Rachel when she's around...
I really need to learn SQL.
@jmort253 I can imagine. Just the subset that leaks through to the rest of us has been kind of intense. (Though as a fellow mod I also see non-public stuff in TL.)
the DE is probably a good way to learn actually.... SE generally makes nice UI's for things like that... at least they do with the API...
@MonicaCellio - Here it is:
25 answers with post notices. Start at the end... or the oldest....
If I don't delete something that I plan to delete, I add the notice... helps us find it later.
3:11 AM
I was just looking at the help for the DE earlier today, actually. They don't have "teach SQL" as a goal, of course; the assumption is that you can do that elsewhere. So there's the schema (if you know what to do with it), and some help for some magic columns and variables, but if you don't know SQL you pretty much need to go look at existing queries. Which is fine, but oh so many -- that's where I blocked, for now.
It's sort of like the "mini-deletion queue", except without all the niceties of a review queue.
do you know how to write an if statement in a language like Java, JavaScript, C, etc?
@jmort253 oh, handy! I was thinking that that was mod-only, but the data is public, so it's really just about affordances. Nice.
I updated the link though, to sort by newest
@jmort253 yup.
so the oldest stuff is on the last page.
3:13 AM
Good idea.
SQL is like if statements, but backwards.
the IF part is at the end... not sure if that helps or not ....
I know that's pretty basic and you're probably talking about learning more advanced stuff, so sorry if that's the case :)
That makes sense. Where do JOINs (inner and outer) come in?
JOINS are basically like this.
Lets say you have a USERS table
and then you have an ANSWERS table
the USERS table will have userids, like 98 for me on Workplace
And there's going to need to be a value in common, somewhere.
Ah, should have waited. Sorry. :-)
Exactly... the ANSWERS table may have a "foreign key" containing that UserId on posts I've answered, so there might be a userId column with "98" for all my answers
SELECT * FROM ANSWERS inner join ANSWERS.userId on USERS.userId WHERE userId=98
that might give you all my answers....
I don't know the schema though, so that's pseudocode :)

JCCyCFor simplicity, assume all relevant fields are NOT NULL. You can do: SELECT table1.this, table2.that, table2.somethingelse FROM table1, table2 WHERE table1.foreignkey = table2.primarykey AND (some other conditions) Or else: SELECT table1.this, table2.that, table2.somethin...

That may help too.
3:18 AM
@jmort253 gotcha. :-)
The nice thing is, you can't break anything. I'm pretty sure "drop tables" or whatever the command is is disabled... hopefully :D
@jmort253 thanks for the help! (Do joins default to inner or do you need to specify?)
So it seems like a good place to play around....
@jmort253 I think that's a safe bet. :-)
@MonicaCellio good question... that I'm not sure... I've always specified INNER JOIN....
I come from a Postgres background, and that was years ago.
These days I live in the world of NoSQL....
Which is a world where you hear the desperate cries of developers who yell out "bbut... I could join the tables in SQL..."
3:21 AM
This discussion comes at a good time, actually -- it gives me some specific goals (queries we want) to experiment on, and it would be professionally helpful for me to not be a complete SQL noob. (I've just applied for a tech-writing job at a company in the DB space. I can learn on the job, just as I've done for every new technology that's been needed, but having a bit of a head start seems useful.)
@jmort253 I've heard of both of those (of course), but I don't know much about the differences.
@MonicaCellio Absolutely. :) I've picked up a ton of knowledge from SE :)
(Obviously there are some, I mean, but I don't know what the key ones are.)
@jmort253 I plan to leverage that, yes. :-)
NoSQL is where objects are mapped directly to a datastore. Querying is pretty much limited to a smaller subset, like looking for keys only... I'm not convinced yet that it's better.... but that may just be because I'm still learning it all :)
Huh. So querying doesn't seem to be the primary use case there; what is?
1 hour later…
4:34 AM
@MonicaCellio Google App Engine uses NoSQL methodologies, and I suspect because it's harder for developers to write really crazy SQL JOINS that consume all the resources. By boxing developers in, they've effectively made their platform scale better.
Here is an example of an answer that was flagged for the post notice, but it was actually edited and improved significantly, so it wouldn't be counted in any of our queries unless the DE can see flags....
A: Why do some people in office not greet back (or even look away) when you say Hello?

Brad ThomasOften people in senior positions feel that they need a certain professional distance. It's likely not personal, they just don't want to start getting pally with everyone. Edit added: e.g. they want to be able to take business decisions without friendship getting in the way of those decisions. By...

And the first revision is definitely something I would have added a post notice to, and it's subsequent form does provide a satisfactory explanation and us up vote worthy IMHO.
I will say that it seems more posts are not improved than those that are improved....
5:20 AM
The expression "pick your battles" comes to mind. You only get so many complaints to your manager before you get written off as unsatisfiable; is this really where you want to spend one of your limited number of complaints? — Eric Lippert Mar 17 at 23:19
True words of wisdom....
1 hour later…
6:25 AM
@jmort253 Take this for what it's worth, but I'm not even a mod and I'm feeling a little burned out. :/
@jmort253 Also, many of my flags have gone unnoticed/unrecognized, so that's really a disincentive for me to try and help clean things up.
@jmort253 Of particular note, I flagged a snide comment where a TWP user questioned another TWP user's gender. Yesterday, I checked the status of that flag and it said "Aged Away".
@jmort253: I would estimate that I'm in the Top 10 for flag weight, but if flags like that are going to be marked as "Aged Away" then that's a big disincentive for me.
6 hours later…
12:17 PM
FWIW, there are seven questions right now in the list: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7. In comparison, Stack Overflow has 3 (that's t-h-r-e-e)... no wonder it's priority -17 to them, with such a protection — gnat 4 mins ago
^^^ the more I learn about this "hotness game", the more it feels fucking unfair
the more I want to learn what the real issue behind the hotness game is
the more I get discouraged because it became so fucking huge
I can't tell what the real damage is because I can't see it
you explained to me some time ago and I understood that it drives the wrong audience to the workplace, or something like that
@AlexM. I think that's simple, just click or hover the word "bad" in the question above the comment I quoted...
> repeated clicks repeated clicks repeated clicks repeated clicks repeated clicks repeated clicks repeated clicks repeated clicks repeated clicks
Q: Answers quality in hot questions

gnatFor few recent months, I've got a habit of downvoting answers which quality doesn't look OK to me. These probably can be generally described as low effort and/or these lacking relevance to question asked. Opinionated slogans, claims that are not backed up by appropriate references or by ...

damage is to answers quality

cultural clash

2 days ago, 39 minutes total – 22 messages, 2 users, 0 stars

Bookmarked yesterday by gnat

but is it that serious?
I mean I always see good answers being upvoted enough and bad answers lagging behind
I'm sure I sound ignorant considering I never looked into the matter
I'm asking honestly though, since you've been discussing it ever since I joined (and most likely way before that)
so at first sight it looks like something that could kill workplace.se
12:46 PM
@AlexM. that's right, you see "good answers being upvoted enough and bad answers lagging behind". The problem with hot questions is, you see 2-3 good answers at top and 10...20..30 garbage behind. Now, repeat that 20...50...100 times at all the hot questions and you'll find that overall answers quality is dragged down by that pile of crap. It's simple, people see garbage and start thinking it's the norm to post stuff like that
it leaks from hot questions to regular ones
and drags down overall culture of answering at the site
yes it could kill Workplace.SE. In the past, it killed NPR (currently known as Programmers, but that's essentially a different site)...
A: How can I encourage Stack Overflow to rein in the 'subjective' vigilantes?

Yannistl;dr We already tried supporting those questions, we even gave them their own site. Sadly, it didn't work out. C'est la vie. 3 years ago, a Stack Exchange site called Not Programming Related came out of Area51, the Stack Exchange staging zone. NPR was supposed to be a site where questions t...

Q: "SO questions are penalized" in the hot list - how does that work?

gnatShog explained in this question about hot list: SO questions are penalized... if your goal is to get more SO questions into the list, you have a bit of a hump to climb. How is this achieved? Or, to be more precise, is it technically possible to establish similar "penalty" for some other si...

I want it to be priority -17 at workplace, too!
FWIW, there are seven questions right now in the list: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7. In comparison, Stack Overflow has 3 (that's t-h-r-e-e)... no wonder it's priority -17 to them, with such a protection — gnat 45 mins ago
1:05 PM
@gnat plus 1 for 'shog only knows' :D
@JimG. wow, I don't think I've seen "aged away" before, and I've had flags hang around for a long time (days to weeks) -- on another site, not this one. Is that new?
Q: When are moderator flags automatically dismissed as "aged away" by the system?

user215114Moderator flags can be dismissed as aged away. What does this dismiss reason mean? What causes flags to be dismissed with this reason? Do aged away flags affect my daily flag amount? Return to FAQ index

I didnt even know aged away was a status
@gnat thanks. Huh -- I knew that close votes could age out but that'll never be reported as such, though I guess close flags would be (for people who can't vote to close)? And it surprises me that spam/offensive flags could hang around (on most sites) for 4 days without being acted on. Wow. I guess that happens on small sites where there aren't many flaggers and the mods choose to wait for the community instead of acting.
@AlexM. Oh yes. For instance... Have you ever seen this question?
Q: Jokingly told my boss "I quit" on April Fools, and I think I just got fired

enderlandI jokingly told my manager "I quit" via email (it was longer than that) as an April Fools joke. We get along pretty well normally. Well, it seems my joke was taken a bit too seriously as I just got an automated email from HR with checkout procedures and an invite to a few "checkout" meetings la...

1:18 PM
I'll take a closer look in a bit, also at what gnat replied earlier
@AlexM. (36 x 5) + (66 x 10) = 840 points... On a joke question...
@AlexM. That drove a ton of traffic to the site on that day.
@AlexM. Overall, you're right. It just sends the wrong message.
Q: Do flags to close expire like votes to close?

gnatVotes to close are known to expire, for the reasons explained eg in answers to this question: Why do close votes expire? Does something like this happen to flags to close cast by users lacking CV privileges? Side note - related question makes one feel that it's unlikely the case: Don't let flag...

@JimG. as far as I can tell it sends just the right message with historical lock:
> This question exists because it has historical significance, but it is not considered a good, on-topic question for this site, so please do not use it as evidence that you can ask similar questions here. This question and its answers are frozen and cannot be changed. More info: help center.
personally i dont think historical things should be kept around on the site
either deleted or meta'd perhaps
@RhysW it probably depends on the specific case. Questions that were once in scope and then the site changed might deserve more of a life than stuff that never should have happened in the first place. And if something is heavily linked, e.g. from meta as a bad example, that breaks if you delete the post. OTOH, some stuff should just die...
The historical lock (or any lock) prevents any further contributions to the post, including votes and comments, and locked posts never appear on the front page (though once it stops changing they wouldn't anyway I guess). I don't know if they have lower priority in searches.
1:35 PM
@RhysW well historical lock is the closest to museum we're allowed to have by SE team. I certainly would prefer a dedicated museum site but oh well
A: how to deal with link rot caused by deletion of popular off-topic questions?

gnatOne way that could address the link rot without compromising SO quality would be to modify 404 page to make it display the link to archived / "museum" copy of the deleted question. Archived copy could look similar to how questions are rendered by Stack Printer. This way, Visitors brought by l...

1:53 PM
Morning folks
2:31 PM
I think there's an answer in here, but the edit to fix it would be somewhat major. Should I?
A: Could asking questions online damage my professional reputation?

Vietnhi PhuvanActivity on Stack Exchange and Github - that's always nice. I have 131 reputation points on Stack Exchange and I hope to push it to 1000 within 12 months :) And you get reputation points on Stack Exchange for asking good questions as well as providing good answers :) We all have asked our share o...

Q: Aggressive Edits

jmac Update 3 weeks following this discussion, the question has been closed, is sitting at -2 score, and has two answers with a combined +1 score. This is not to say "I told you so", but rather to say that if the community disagrees with an aggressive edit, I would strongly invite thos...

^^^ me (and probably @jmac) vote yes, you should!
@gnat I'm more willing to make aggressive edits to questions because they're the framework on which answers hang. In a sense they belong to the community more than answers do (though answers do too). So I'm not sure how aggressive to be with an answer, but I'll probably do it. If nothing else, we get a test case out of it. :-)
A: Editing Philosophy

gnatA friend of mine, professional tech writer, once told me that one of the major skills in this profession is to remain anonymous. He explained that it means that to readers (including original author of the edited content), it shouldn't look like you added something of "your own", that it shouldn...

^^^ safe way if you prefer it
Please don't get me wrong, this is not about being somehow... shy when editing - quite opposite, I firmly believe that one should feel completely free to edit and the more, the better.

Neither this is about amount / size of content to add - I for one never feel anyhow obliged to correlate size of my edits with that of the original post in any way.

Nor this is about limiting self in making justified cuts to original text - I cut without mercy when I can justify (preferably, in the edit summary) my cut to anyone, including original author.
2:56 PM
@gnat right, an edit definitely needs to respect the author; putting words in his mouth doesn't do that.
3:08 PM
Q: My boss slapped me over a calculation error

user5115I was slapped in the face by my boss. I'm male. She's female. My Excel file had an error in the calculation. Ok, so I messed up. But to be slapped? I fixed it and saved it out to the network. If I complain I guess I will just get fired. But I don't want to work for someone like this. How should I...

I must be weird but
I find this to be a bit sexy
I think OP's boss kinda likes him
@gnat done.
Jan 11 '13 at 15:28, by gnat
aren't we a perverted bunch. Slapping, sleeping with boss' wife (still at the top in the hot questions btw), now toilet paper. Where will this end?
yeah I found it a bit weird the most voted question was the sleeping with boss' wife one
Hot is good, right? Gaming the system, perhaps? Sort of like SEO, but at the stackexchange level? (It's good to know that toilet and manager are magic words.) — Joe Strazzere Mar 10 at 14:06
@JoeStrazzere oh there are plenty magic combinations to trigger lemmings attention. "git is fantastic" does the trick. Anything "sexual" in the title does it, too. It's not a rocket science, really — gnat Mar 10 at 14:12
makes sense
3:18 PM
@MonicaCellio you've got a talent to separate wheat from chaff. Profound and respectable edit
@gnat thank you.
Q: Could asking questions online damage my professional reputation?

HughI like to post quite a lot of questions online, on Stack Exchange and other locations such as GitHub. Despite my best efforts to research before asking and to ask good questions, sometimes I feel that I have asked quite foolish ones. I also have a few questions in the past that seem fairly poor i...

^^^ this has got to the top of the hot list, at risk of getting lemming answers for next 2-4 hours, while hotness formula is most brain-damaging. If only....
Q: Make hot questions with multiple answers age away faster on smaller / subjective-ish sites

gnatDue to extended exposure to wide SE network, hot questions tend to attract certain amount of low quality answers 1 2 3. These answers would better be (and eventually are) removed, but on smaller / subjective-ish sites removal takes quite a lot of time due to limitations in moderation power and in...

meanwhile, it could be that with a little bit of upvotes these SO questions currently in the list may redirect part of lemmings attention out of us: stackoverflow.com/questions/22557042/… and stackoverflow.com/questions/22534183/sql-injection-dropdown and especially this one: stackoverflow.com/questions/22561614/…
3:50 PM
time to run home, going to get back to the hot question thing once I'm done
cya later
4:05 PM
@gnat I have changed my mind... I am going with the old army saying: "Embrace the Suck!"
except that the comparer == will actually compare instances of objects are the same not that the values are the same... Still a lemming +1 for you — Chad 14 secs ago
@Chad well if this "strategy" involves posting answers like those you did on Mar 11 and 2 days ago, I am all for that. :) (FWIW your most recent one doesn't look bad either)
@gnat thanks :)
It was semi sarcastic im still on board with the lemmings to the SO cliff strategy :)
as long as someone doesnt suggest making a bad list of at least readable if statements, would be better if they made them nested and less readable!
@Chad I see. wrt embrace, I mostly follow it, too... but exceptions still happen, sometimes it sucks just too bad. You'll find out it that sometimes you just say screw the ride, I just has to vote down / flag it
@Chad by the way, have you seen that recent MSO question of the answerer confused with a wave of lemming upvotes?
in hot questions (and your answer is posted in such a question), voting is broken: basically any answer "...gets a nice portion of populist upvotes and supportive comments, a portion sufficient to cover any downvotes and critique from site / tag regulars - a portion sufficient for other newcomers to believe answers like that are welcome and rewarded (broken windows anyone?)" — gnat yesterday
I did not actually read your answer... it was long so I assumed it was good and upvoted it... would you prefer I retract that vote? — Chad 32 secs ago
I need to get the reopen vote privelege on SO to help them really feel the pain
I feel kinda bad about the SQL injection question cause that is actually a good and important question... well im sure those crappy answers will help someone :)
Q: What's the best way to part ways after a month at a company and will leaving affect future employment?

GaryI recently started my first out of college programming job. I made the mistake of not asking enough questions during the interview process for my new job, and I also did not evaluate the culture well enough. I felt a bit "forced" to get out of the house as it had been a month since graduation an...

that question is a dup of one from 2012
Q: Bosses refuse to follow branding guidelines

MyojojoMy company recently acquired a new building. The architect proposed a design for the facade that goes against the branding guidelines on use of our company logo. As the Corpcomms manager, I did my part by letting my bosses know that this is not a good way to proceed. By approving this design, w...

I think this is a fake question. The OP is too easy about taking criticism that is a bit unfair and easily taking the advice that is opposite of what he is asking for.
5:15 PM
@gnat well, the author seems to be objecting to that edit. Oh well; I did what I could.
@MonicaCellio all right, if my upvote on that post will be unlocked by bad edit / rollback, I know how to change it :(
@gnat yeah, if he reverts that edit (without fixing the core of the problem some other way), I'll be voting accordingly too. An edit unlocks votes, so no worries there -- you just have to notice it happened.
5:47 PM
@AlexM. That was a fake question by a troll with a sockpuppet account...
5:58 PM
Q: When your boss wants to be your Facebook friend

ZibbobzI've had a pretty good working relationship with my boss for the past 1 1/2 years. He trusts me to deal with the problems he gives me, I give him the best quality work that I can, occasionally there are some hangups but in general I do good work for him, he appreciates me, and we get along well...

I think we need quick decision on this I think it could blow up. In some ways its a very interesting question but it is purely opinion and discussion bait
@Chad noo :(
2 days ago, by gnat
@MonicaCellio yes, all of that, and don't forget my personal favorite - title editing! :)
<whistling innocently>
Q: How to handle boss's invitation to become a Facebook Friend knowing that sometimes my Friends might post something that is not work-appropriate

ZibbobzI've had a pretty good working relationship with my boss for the past 1 1/2 years. He trusts me to deal with the problems he gives me, I give him the best quality work that I can, occasionally there are some hangups but in general I do good work for him, he appreciates me, and we get along well...

@gnat you got me curious with that hot question thing; is there anything that I could read about programmers.se's past?
A: How can I encourage Stack Overflow to rein in the 'subjective' vigilantes?

Yannistl;dr We already tried supporting those questions, we even gave them their own site. Sadly, it didn't work out. C'est la vie. 3 years ago, a Stack Exchange site called Not Programming Related came out of Area51, the Stack Exchange staging zone. NPR was supposed to be a site where questions t...

^^^ canonical starting point. Three links at the bottom of it provide further references to those interested in even more thorough study
awesome thanks
6:13 PM
@gnat Nicely handled
@Chad thanks. :) Will see how it flies, need to keep an eye at it but at least concrete title like that gives a more solid ground to down vote and flag garbage answers
@jmort253 Is there a reason it has been intense... I know I have actually tried to stay on best behavior to make it easier for you (knowing you are handling 90% of the crap)
Hello Guys
6:45 PM
@Vinothbabu Hey vino
Hey @Chad How are you doing
@Vinothbabu good :)
7:15 PM
Q: "SO questions are penalized" in the hot list - how does that work, can it be done for other site(s)?

gnatShog explained in this question about hot list: SO questions are penalized... if your goal is to get more SO questions into the list, you have a bit of a hump to climb. How is this achieved? Or, to be more precise, is it technically possible to set up similar "penalty" for some other site?...

@gnat - Nice
I think part of our problem and one reason I have always believed in this site is our scope means that 90% of the total population of the earth is probably a potential user for this site. Figure liberally there are 100 million programmers (I suspect its closer to 10million) but even at that figure less that 2% of the total population is a potential SO User. we have 90% of the total population...
we have a prospective userbase that would make us the largest site on the SE network by a factor of 45. That is assuming that we are limited to a similar ratio of penetration that SO is to the Programmer community.
I would love to see a graph in 6 months that shows our growth compared to SO's compared to all other SE sites
I know one thing I noticed... it used to be that we had about 90% of our activity m-f 9am ET - 5pm PT M-F That is changing.
2 hours later…
8:58 PM
A: Testing proposal: automating review of answers that fail to meet site-specific guidelines

Monica CellioData we need to collect: What happens to answers that get this post notice? Possible values: edited and notice removed, edited but insufficient (notice not removed), notice removed sans edit (successfully contested), answer deleted by owner, answer deleted by mod/community after the waiting pe...

1 hour later…
9:58 PM
A: Are there three pyramids in Antarctica?

user18321I find the discovery of manufactured pyramids on the Antarctic Continent ENTIRELY credible. Through satellite photography covering the entire plant Earth, numerous discoveries have been made and will continue to be made for many years to come. As it turns out there are manufactured pyramids ALL O...

I love it "The truth is out there!" Have a good weekend everyone
@RhysW By and large, I agree with you.

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