@Snow Nice edit there: workplace.stackexchange.com/questions/105474/…

@Draken I'm not sure it helped the question at all, but I felt the title needed to at least include the question.

Morning all

^^^ reading chatty discussion dumped right below this warning makes me wonder if the font of this comment is too small or maybe mod diamond is invisible in some browsers

@gnat - some people either feel they are not the ones targeted by that message, or just don't understand it. As the system doesn't let us add new messages to a chat if we have done it once, I always delete any that come after the message.

Finalement. Got my legendary badge. I can finally stop answering. :]

@Lilienthal Really?

Jups. I always thought I'd be the third but then my answering spree slowed down and everyone else took over. ;)

@Lilienthal Then why did you answer that one :D

(Sorry, that one was too easy to leave untouched)

@Lilienthal Nice though! I really should step up answering if I want to reach that sometimes, but at the same time people keep telling me to leave more work for some lower rep users :P

@Lilienthal welcome to the elite club :D

Well Reflector saved a few asses today. I won't tell anyone in my team how easy it was though.

@Snow :D

"What does this dll do? The developer left 3 years ago and we don't have the source code, find the damned source code!".

@Snow ROFLMAO I can't count the times I've encountered THAT one over the course of my career. At my current employer, not only do we have the source code backed up, but a hard copy printed out as well.

Also, apparently, nobody has ever heard of a "decompiler"

Sssshhhhh... This is the only secret I have....

@Snow ROFL!

@Snow I've actually secured my position by being a knowledge broker. I give out my secrets... well, most of them ;)

lol. Actually, I think most of us in the team knows about Reflector. The key thing is that our Team Lead doesn't.

@Snow HEADDESK

@Snow how good is reflector? How easy is the code to read?

Plenty good enough for me. It anonymizes the variable names, but it's easy enough to use. Obviously, it depends on the complexity of the code. This dll only had a couple of small methods.

@Snow so it creates the same nightmare code that we maintenance coders are used to eh? :D

It indents stuff, so I guess it has something going for it.

but seriously, it's not bad at all. well worth trying the trial version on a few sample assemblies.

USE THE SOURCE, LUKE! LOL

speaking of train wrecks, anyone seen The Last Jedi?

A long time ago, in a multiplex far, far away...

@Snow Something got deleted before I could rant at the moderator. I'm disappointed :(

@Tinkeringbell I gave up on it. Seemed pointless to argue against people who only want to create obstacles. I wasn't going to get anywhere, and getting all Jerry Maguire about it wasn't going to win me any Oscars.

@Snow Well, hope you won't mind the edit anyway.

At least I tried ;)

And I thank you for making an effort there too. You really did try your hardest there. It's pretty clear that my views are simply not acceptable there.

@Snow which is a shame because interpersonal skills are values neutral

@Snow They should be... otherwise we're having another community problem. Although I agree we should be really nitpicky about what and how we put stuff on meta :)

Morning! And, uh oh, did I miss additional drama? :-\

The sad thing is that (basically put), they're punishing anything and everything that's non-conforming and expecting a good quality site as a result. It's simply not going to happen.

@TheTinyMan Yeah, you missed me going all Johnny Cash over in IPS land.

@Snow Fun times. :-/ I'll try to catch up on the transcript. :-\

morning

@Tinkeringbell the problem, IMO, is that IPS has become too political to be of any use to anyone. I can guarantee that if I put up a post titled "How do I explain to my lesbian daughter that my southern-Baptist church does not acknowledge her marriage to her partner" It would be shut down in two minutes, voted into oblivion, and I'd get enough flames in the comments to equal the heat of a million suns.

@ChrisE Good morning sir.

@Tinkeringbel I keep going back to magisch's post about someone stepping on his foot, his outburst, and the "BIG HATE" thrown at him. Perhaps one of the most undeserved attacks on a poster I have ever seen.

When stuff like that happens, there needs to be a real price paid by people who engage in dogpiles like that.

@TheTinyMan good morning.

@TheSnarkKnight You're probably right. :-\ I was pleasantly surprised by a recent question wherein someone was asking how to tell a single mom that has no romantic feelings for him that he needs a chaperone to be alone with him. It squicked me out and there was some blasting but the question wasn't actually shut down like I was afraid it would be.

@TheSnarkKnight I remember the question but I don't remember the hate. Was it bad? :-\

@TheTinyMan one of the advantages of an eidetic memory. One of the answers was so bad that it was deleted for being abusive. Most of the comments ignored his question and went on virtue-signaling tirades about how ***-ist he was, and how awful a person he was, and that this indicated a greater... blah blah blah (insert archair psychology here)

This struck me as particularly wrong, as my criticisms of him have always been quite the opposite.

@TheTinyMan yeah, the "smile" question squicked me out as well, principally due to the misandry in the original question, but I just avoided answering it, as I knew I had nothing to contribute.

My mistake was commenting in chat that I couldn't relate.

@TheSnarkKnight In my opinion your mistake was the way you framed that comment, but I think we've had that conversation. :-P

Was there misandry in the original question? I don't recall that, either.

@TheTinyMan Yes, but the misandry was quickly edited out. much more in the comments. The thing is if the genders had been reversed, those comments would have disappeared faster, and the post likely locked. Which is another problem

@TheSnarkKnight Gotcha. Yeah, probably, and that isn't the best thing. :-\

@TheTinyMan so, if you want to build a community there, it needs to be even handed and open to differing viewpoints. The "How do I explain to my friend that we cannot accommodate her vegan diet" should be treated with the same respect as "How to I tell my friend that I can't deviate from my vegan diet"

and disrespect for EITHER viewpoint should be shut down.

@TheSnarkKnight You're right of course. I saw that the first question there was asked once, but I don't remember how that went either.

@TheTinyMan I think the term "virtue signaling" is a bit overused, but for those questions I mentioned that was EXACTLY what has been going on. People have been using the questions as an opportunity to tell everyone what they think of the OP in question and show how they would NEVER do such a thing themselves.

The only reason "virtue signaling" seems overused is because there's so much of it going on.

Damn you snow for writing a better answer than mine. :)

@ChrisE Sorry about that. That sort of thing normally happens to me. Seems like a long time since I wrote a decent answer. I hope you'll forgive me.

nothing to forgive. Yours is clearly better and you have a source.

Well, not really a source, it's a link to reference.com. I'm not sure it's a great source. But plenty of Google hits suggest the same thing (I was unable to find an IRS sourced article quickly). Still recommending call to the IRS seemed appropriate.

I wasn't entirely sure if the IRS would help right away. My mom's an accountant and she usually just calls and sounds threatening and that does the trick. People tend to react when a third party gets involved. A tax lawyer would probably be even faster. :)

But it's still a somewhat decent source, certainly better than my non-existent one.

@TheSnarkKnight Yet Magisch is still around, but you're no longer there to flag that stuff... :/

@Tinkeringbell I answered your question on Meta. I may come back for purposes of flagging, and see if that helps.

I don't think it will be well received though

I think you'll shortly be following me into the ring of fire.

@Snow that's the fun thing about being a pariah, you can't be hated any more than you already are.

True. And the understanding that there's more important things in life than typing stuff on the internet.

I think I should post something praising the LGBT+ community, just to watch people down-vote it because I was the one who posted it.

@Snow the answer to the IRS question was spot on, nothing to add.... dammit. :D

Hah, wrote an answer on IPS hoping to read some "amusing" comments, but got a couple of upvotes instead. Wrote an answer here today because I was bored (and frustrated) at work, it hit HNQ and I got an accidental repcap. Springtime for Hitler in full effect.

@TheSnarkKnight People don't downvote you because you're you... IF you get any, you'll get them from people that really aren't the community at all, and see downvotes as the ultimate way to saying 'I detest LGBT+'.... Without having their comments/answers deleted and us ever being able to tell them they're being not nice.... :/

Yeah. I took a brief look at the W2 documentation on the IRS web site. It scared me, I closed the window down.

@Tinkeringbell that's just a bit of sarcastic hyperbole on my part.

@TheSnarkKnight Yeah well, people that don't know you or IPS might get scared away, and I'm trying my ass off to get a community going there! Shame on you :P

@Snow did I tell you? last year I caught one of the IRS scammers :D he went to jail.

@Tinkeringbell I'm walking away from the IPS site for a while. I see your comment and your undelete vote. I don't think anyone else will vote for undeletes enough to undelete it. The comments there are just nails in the coffin.

@Snow hah, watch me :P

@TheSnarkKnight You remind us of that on an almost weekly basis, yes...

:D

@Snow It already has two and I'm going to badger a mod now :P

@Tinkeringbell You are so very Dutch....

@Snow Yep.... Nothing wrong with that :P You should come live here for a while too :D

@Snow well, when you get older, the second thing to go is your memory... and the first thing is... is.... What was I saying?

@Snow (Btw, if you ever want something proofread before posting again, just make a chatroom over at IPS)

Thank you. But I don't intend on going back to IPS for a while, at least until the end of February. I might look, but I won't touch.

@MaskedMan Would you please reconsider using IPS for comment fishing? It's enough of a problem already to keep them in line! What kind of 'fun' where you hoping for? I hope you didn't try to draw out a fight?

Masked Man is supposed to be retired.

@Tinkeringbell Actually, if he CAN use IPS for comment fishing, that means that IPS can be used for comment fishing.

@Tinkeringbell I was hoping for a bunch of holier than thou drama queens and kings preaching their life's wisdom to me.

Sorry, I just coughed out half a banana.

@Snow To be precise, I am retired in restricted mode, which leaves room for hit-and-run operations.

Oh. Like an internet version of "limp home mode"? Got you.

fun weekend project - imgur.com/a/gI5Ax

Sweet, that's a game, right?

fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2015/11/3/star-wars-rebellion

The Lego Millennium Falcon took me a whole lot more than a weekend of fun.

@MaskedMan yeah, not a good idea :/

@Tinkeringbell I warned you....

@Tinkeringbell That aside, the IPS seems to be a dumping ground an echo chamber of entitled teenager keyboard warriors, which means that site is pretty much irrelevant, so it doesn't matter what we do there.

@MaskedMan Hmmm... Sad you seem to think about it that way. I'll keep it in mind.

@Tinkeringbell I would have phrased it a bit more delicately than @MaskedMan, but... he does have a point. It is a bit cliquish right now, and it needs to change if it is to grow.

@TheSnarkKnight How many times do I have to say? WORKING ON THAT! :P

The attitude of the community makes it difficult for wise people with to give useful advice, because anything that goes against the "entitled" attitude will be chased out of town with torches and pitchforks. The stated goal of the site is good, but the culture created by the community there generally goes against it.

@TheSnarkKnight That's where the retired in restricted mode is so useful, since I can now do hit-and-run operations, I don't have to worry about being delicate. :P

@Tinkeringbell I know, which is why I suggested some things that may be harsh, because if it's allowed to take root, then eventually, SE will declare it a failure and shut it down.

@Tinkeringbell For a number of questions on IPS, a valid answer would be: "For God's sake, if you are an adult, it is high time you learned to deal with your sh**." ... of course, with a different choice of words and some more elaboration, but that would be unpopular with the community. Once people get their hands burned a few times, they will turn away from the site, and that just contributes to the echo chamber.

@MaskedMan actually, those questions should be closed outright.

@MaskedMan realistically that's what people thought about this site too for a long time and perhaps still do

The point I am making is, I wish that site well and hope that it survives and scales greater heights, but it is increasingly difficult for me to contribute towards it. And then, the next best option left is to amuse myself there. I don't like doing that, but there's nothing better to do with it.

@MaskedMan Isn't 'learning to deal with your schtick' what we're trying to help them do there when that happens?

@enderland I think that's part of where "HR IS NOT YOUR FRIEND" came from. People with petty squabbles wanting to go to HR

@TheTinyMan I'd actually like to see the stack succeed.

@TheTinyMan Right, but people asking questions there don't want to hear that. They come there hoping that someone will blame the world for their problems, and IPS doesn't disappoint them.

To be fair, we get such "woe is me" questions here quite frequently too.

@MaskedMan Hmm. That's not the pattern that I notice...but then the only questions that I regularly read are the ones whose title sound interesting and relevant to me. :-P I see plenty of people told, "nope, you're fucking up, quit fucking up" on the ones I look at. More are closed outright than ever answered, I think.

@TheTinyMan here we call those questions "Validation questions". People not really seeking an answer, but want people to tell them "You're right". This usually earns a "populist" badge for someone :D

@TheTinyMan It is possible that I too have a confirmation bias. I don't go to that site frequently, I usually go there when one of their questions goes HNQ. Then I stick around there for a bit to see what else is on offer. :P

It also seems to be overrun with "advice for the lovelorn" which Shog specifically warned about.

I have actually been wondering about creating an entry on tvtropes for our site, complete with character pages and such. I guess The Gadfly would be an appropriate entry under my character page. :P

sup @MaskedMan how are things?

@MaskedMan I'm more of the Karmic Trickster myself

I would like to post a question asking if an employer's vacation policy is reasonable (vacation taken is not paid on a paycheck until the end of the year), but this is getting close to asking for legal advice. I'm not really looking for "what should I do?", but rather more like "can anyone else find any reference material?", since I've been unable to find anything. Should I post the question, or don't bother?

It seems like something an HR manager might be able to answer, which fits the guidance on Meta.

@StephenJennings sounds reasonable, especially the way you've worded it here, give it a go

@StephenJennings Though "is this reasonable" questions often are borderline opinion-based

@StephenJennings yes, if we can come up with a way of not using "reasonable" or "legal". perhaps "Is this a common practice?"

Yep, common practice sounds better

I will use that, thank you.

@StephenJennings any time! Really. Any time you want advice on how to post something, come in here, or go to Meta. Either is good, but we tend to answer more quickly in chat than in Meta.

funniest thing you'll see today

@ChrisE ^^^^^

I don't know which is funnier, a camel beauty pageant or that they were cheating with botox.

Why thank you. I'm already here.

did the site insert it because you linked to it @enderland or did you have to cut & paste?

if you direct link a comment it always does that

a link like: workplace.stackexchange.com/questions/105559/…

and just a plain link pasted in does that

So you just put it in in the text? Like chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/3060/the-water-cooler you didn't have to use []() even?

yep

@ChrisE I edited this one so you can see what it looks like :)

cool

Hi all

@TheSnarkKnight I think I got myself a wrong job

I m unable to function without someone intervention

And today my manager asked in scrum if this ticket was ever gonna end

My peer said I will try to finish off today but couldn’t coz he knew or was long but my manager comments made me think it is bad

I’m thinking of getting back if they take me

Coz I’m master of nothing I know nothing

@Nofel you need to get to a psychologist or psychiatrist. you are showing signs of panic disorder, maybe PTSD