The Water Cooler

1:24 AM

Sometimes the whining and childish attitudes just get to me. It was all I could do to still "be nice"

1

A: Have I been given too short a notice to decide about new role opportunity?

You had 5 days to make the decision. I think your boss is being very reasonable. You call it "3 working days" but that's a ridiculous equivocation. You're trying to make it sound like it's less time than it is. Or do you expect people to believe you only think about this position during working h...

Frank FYC

2:23 AM

@GrayCygnus @GrayCygnus Hey Gray, if it was about the company volunteering event, in retrospect was a poor question to begin with that is company specific. I felt that it didn't contribute anything of worth as a question, hence the deletion.

Sorry for not giving you a chance to reply.

RhysW

7:34 AM

@ChristopherEstep sounds like he put off thinking about it and is now worried that he can't do all the research needed in one evening

Snark Shark

8:13 AM

Good morning all. Another thrilling day at the coal-face.

Erik

8:44 AM

Morning.

Kaz

Morning

J.S

Preface: I am working in a company where most of the employees are in their early 20s. We have a very open culture and office. This is great to have a very friendly and low-stress working environment. As a byproduct, productivity is low and almost everyone is behaving fairly unprofessionally. They don't respect deadlines, juniors don't follow instructions carefully. And a grave lack of mutual respect among many colleagues, gossiping etc. As a member of management, what can I do to find a balance between a fun and free working environment, and utter chaos. I don't want to make any dramatic c…

Erik

Hi J.S. Welcome to the Workplace :) You've got a pretty tough question as a first one.

Are you in your early 20s as well, by the way? And what's the company culture like?

J.S

@Erik Thank you for the very warm welcome. Yes, I am also in my 20s.

Erik

Well, in that case at the very least you're going to be getting a LOT of experience from this company ;)

J.S

8:56 AM

Company culture is very open, everyone is free to walk over and talk to directors. All ideas are welcome etc.

motosubatsu

Hi @J.S I was actually typing up an answer to your question when I saw you pop in here

J.S

:) true, I am definitely getting a lot of new experiences.

Erik

Sounds like a modern startup and/or a just-ex-student company. I've worked for those when I was that age

They're a lot of fun to work in, and they can accomplish a lot

motosubatsu

what you're facing is pretty common for new managers - it's easy to get trapped in the binary mindset that a manager is either a tyrant or a pushover

J.S

@motosubatsu If you were typing an answer please feel free to post it :-)

Erik

9:00 AM

Are all the employees related to each other in some way, btw? If they all come from the same study, or community or something like that, it might complicate things.

J.S

@Erik It's not a start, company has been operating for 13+ years.

Erik

Oh. Ok. Has this problem been around for all that time (as far as you know?) Do they have high turnover?

J.S

@motosubatsu I actually like the open culture. I am just trying to get work done. We are facing many missed deadlines and I am having to face unhappy clients very often.

Snark Shark

@J.S Is the business aware that this kind of working environment is basically wasting money?

Erik

I would start by asking if the employees are aware that they are wasting money and goodwill, and whether they care.

J.S

9:05 AM

@SnarkShark Yes, to a certain extent. But they are afraid of changes that may cause people leaving. Skilled engineers are hard to come by.

motosubatsu

@J.S I've posted up the answer I was working on

Snark Shark

It should be the other way around. Workers should be made aware that if they don't meet deadlines, then their jobs could be at risk.

motosubatsu

I'm totally with you on supporting the open culture - that's not your problem. You need to focus on results and there is nothing wrong with spelling it out to the employees that if they don't meet deadlines and clients get unhappy and leave that there won't be a company for them to work for

you don't make that as a threat

it's just a statement of reality

J.S

@motosubatsu @SnarkShark I could give that a shot.

Daniel

If you want to change and don´t want to alienate the employees, best get them in on the task, make them part of the change.

motosubatsu

9:10 AM

one of the things that really helps when trying to manage people is remembering that we are all fundamentally selfish creatures (and I don't mean that as a bad thing) so if you can make them see that their needs and actually aligned with the company's needs in many ways they will be much more proactive in working towards them

J.S

I am somewhat afraid of being looked at as the guy changed their dream workplace

Daniel

Btw. Stackoverflow with it´s reputation system is a good example of such an organisational scheme, leveraging the "selfishness"

motosubatsu

@J.S I understand that feeling - but it doesn't need to suddenly become a horrible place to work or not "fun"

Erik

But they don't sound like they currently have a workplace, it sounds more like a playground. And I can't imagine it being anyone's "dream" anything if it's full of gossip, don't respect each other and are constantly being confronted with failure.

motosubatsu

but the harsh reality is that if the work doesn't get done then there won't BE a workplace

Erik

9:12 AM

(And if it is, you need to get rid of these people asap, because you don't want that kind of toxic culture)

motosubatsu

and you want to avoid falling into the classic "new manager" trap of trying to be their best friend and being afraid to say boo to them

they won't respect that

and you'll never get anything done

Daniel

People, especially IT-staff tend to have the most fun when they experience they accomplished something great.

Erik

I think at this point it's also an interesting point to look at differences of management style, because I don't feel it's the manager's job to get anything done in an IT-consulting company. It's the employees' job to get things done, and the manager's job to help them get things done.

motosubatsu

@Erik good point there Erik - a manager might sit higher up the food chain as it were but it's as much their job to facilitate their subordinates getting the work done as it is to tell them what work needs doing

Erik

Whether it's the manager's job to tell them what needs to be done also depends on the organisation; lots of agile setups don't give managers any say over that. It'd depend on how J.S. company is set up.

motosubatsu

9:17 AM

@J.S can I ask whether you are senior or middle management?

J.S

I understand you all have valuable points and I will try to adopt them. Another thing that complicates matters is that i quickly rose through the ranks in 2 years. From being a mid-level engineer to the Senior manager (Just bellow managing director). Most of these people were my seniors 1 year ago.

motosubatsu

@Erik true.. I didn't phrase that very well "tell them what work needs doing" should really have been more "communicate the company's goals"

Erik

Yeah; communicating goals sounds much more like what someone in a leadership position needs to be doing :)

motosubatsu

@J.S while it's not your fault that can often make your life harder as, best will in the world, those who were senior to your previously will still have that mindset a bit and ti can take a while for them to start seeing you differently. It's tricky since you need to demonstrate the change in relative station but you don't want to just come out and be a hard ass on them as that will foster resentment

@Erik sometimes my command of language deserts me and it can take a couple of bites at the cherry before I manage to actually say what I mean :)

Erik

That's why open discussion helps a lot ;)

Snark Shark

9:24 AM

I have added my answer to the pile, although it may be labelled as either "stating the obvious", or "missing the point entirely".

motosubatsu

@SnarkShark I thought it made some good points :)

J.S

Thank you all! I have a lot to think about now. How to go about setting goals, encourage performance etc I will read all of your comments again. I will post an update after few months of experimenting, I am sure some of you might like to know how this turned out. Thanks again!

Snark Shark

Thanks. It might also be worth the company as a whole sharing their growth/business strategy and what high-level projects are required to meet those targets. My company is accountable to shareholders and the stock markets. Not meeting our key objectives has large implications.

motosubatsu

@J.S Happy to help.. hopefully we've given you some good starting points :) I'd also add that it's not a bad idea to plagiarize... think about the best managers you've had and what they did or said to motivate/inspire you and try and emulate them

Snark Shark

@J.S We always appreciate knowing the outcome. I think that the base aim here is letting the workers know what effect slacking has on the company as a whole and hope that they get the hint that they're key to the company's continuing success.

motosubatsu

9:30 AM

I for one would be very interested in the outcome - and remember that you can always post a question on TWP or if it's something smaller there's generally a few of us in here most of the time and we're always happy to help.

Apart from @RichardU that is... he's just here to be a grumpy sod :D

Snark Shark

I'm not sure I agree with the question being closed. There's some fairly fundamental high-level suggestions that can be made without getting dragged into 'too-broad' details.

motosubatsu

@SnarkShark I'm with you... it's broad in potential scope but there's nothing to rule out specific answers

and besides it's about helping a new manager find their feet, sound bang on with the spirit of TWP to me

I've VTRO

Snark Shark

@J.S I've edited the question to tighten the scope a little more in an effort to get the question un-broadened. Please review (and edit if I've missed the mark). I also removed the request for book references, we don't really do that here.

J.S

9:54 AM

@SnarkShark @motosubatsu Thanks again! I will share the outcome once I have tried for a few weeks/months. And I will surely be back with questions and hopefully help others too

Also, I am happy with your edit :)

Happy to help.

morning all

@RhysW Hey there.

hows everyone today

10:11 AM

That's a difficult question. I'll settle for 'meh'.

RhysW

10:24 AM

tricky day?

motosubatsu

I second the call of "meh" @SnarkShark but will add a healthy dash of "irritable" for good measure

Snark Shark

10:41 AM

I went through "irritable" on the way to "meh"

motosubatsu

@SnarkShark what can I say.. I'm a multitasker :)

Snark Shark

Multi-angster?

motosubatsu

@SnarkShark haha. indeed. I am a true master of the art!

Erik

I'm conflicted. On the one hand, I'm signing a contract at a new company tomorrow, so I should be happy, but on the other hand I'm sitting in the office that's caused me to go look for the new company, so I'm not feeling it yet :/

Snark Shark

@Erik Go take a pub lunch. You'll feel better afterwards.

Erik

10:47 AM

You mean drinking in the middle of the workday? :P

Snark Shark

As long as you don't do shots, you should be ok.

Erik

Considering my alcohol tolerance, I doubt it. I don't think I could even finish a whole drink in half an hour.

Snark Shark

Oh man, we're such a cheery bunch this morning...

motosubatsu

@SnarkShark I'm always cheery.. except on days ending in a 'y'

Erik

@motosubatsu sounds like you need to emigrate, then. None of the days end in a 'y' here.

They all end with a 'g'.

Snark Shark

10:55 AM

This explains the grumpiness of Germans then...

motosubatsu

@Erik Ist heute noch nicht mittwoch?

Erik

Not in Dutch, no ;)

It's just woensdag.

motosubatsu

@Erik that sound you can hear? it's the sound of my attempt to be a clever bast#!d deflating like a sad balloon

Erik

Your sad balloon sounded a lot like a Stack-chat notification sound...

Kaz

@SnarkShark I think it depends. I'd say if you were an SO Moderator, that probably carries positive connotations when applying for a technical position. Any other site, and any other position, I'd say it's unlikely to have any positive outcome.

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