Minecraft Talk

Jochem

08:17

@Ender I mostly find that I get scrap or wooden hoes when I use scrap boxes :/

Martin Sojka

08:30

Igneous Extruder feeding a Recycler-Generator loop, siphon off half of the scrap generated (this makes sure you don't run out of energy; add a battery as buffer in doubt), auto-craft scrapboxes, deploy them, gather what comes out and filter those unimportant things like hoes into a void pipe. Put down a world anchor (this whole thing easily fits into a single chunk), leave running for a week or two.

The filtering system is the part which takes the most place, really.

You could also add a second recycler for the unneeded parts instead of the void pipe, but that's overengineering it in my opinion.

Kevin van der Velden

@MartinSojka You say overengineering like it's a bad thing

2

Martin Sojka

@KevinvanderVelden Heh, no. It's just that it would improve the yield by at most something like 2% while adding lots of complexity to the core loop. :)

Arperum

08:47

What is mostly done with cobble from quarries?

I'm currently voidpiping it, but it feels like waste >_>

Kevin van der Velden

Storing it in a deep storage unit

Martin Sojka

Making any amount of cobble is easy; there's no point in storing it.

Kevin van der Velden

auto crafting thingy with an alkahest :)

Free redstone

Martin Sojka

... unless you're on some sort of special map where there's no lava anywhere, that is.

Kevin van der Velden

And no bees, and no blazes

And no lava fabricators and and and =p

Jochem

08:51

@MartinSojka Making building amounts of cobble is trivial, making a lot of cobble isn't... and DSUs are cheap, so I just store it anyway

Arperum

Map has plenty of lava. We have a whole nether for one base (currently a single advanced pump is giving us more lava then we need by FAR

No DSU's on my server though :(

And we first filled an upgraded barrel with stone, just to have some if there was ever need for it.

Jochem

@Arperum I have a bank of 10 recyclers running through autocrafted cobble slabs, though it has no hope of keeping up with even my half-assed lazy quarrying, I still have almost a million cobble in storage

Arperum

I should really get into autocrafting things for a bit.

Jochem

I think before I used AE and DSUs, I used an upgraded barrel and voidpiped the rest. Though recyclers are a decent destination too, you can always use more scrap

Arperum

We have three recylcers running whenever we think of adding some.

or when we decide to place our stone golem on a chect of cobble :)

I think I might turn that into some kinbd of piping this evening. Maybe.

Kevin van der Velden

08:57

Jeah, 12 AESUs :D

Jochem

@MartinSojka also, you mean burn the scrap in a generator?

/me does math

wow, generating scrap is a net-positive energy producer :o

Martin Sojka

@Jochem Yes. And creating cobble is energy-free. Basically, free scrap and free energy. :)

Kevin van der Velden

Nice

Jochem

hm, problem is lag though I guess

to generate any meaningful amount, I'd have to have a lot of recyclers and a lot of generators

Martin Sojka

Not really, the thing is so small and the amount of stuff actually in circulation is so little that it generates no perceivable lag. I don't do it in mass - I just let it run all the time.

Jochem

09:03

thing is, if it's less than 512eu/t I'm not going to bother >_>

Martin Sojka

I think you can also do a pipe-less system for at least the generation. First one goes Igneous Extruder -> Recycler -> Generator, the second Igneous Extruder -> Recycler -> Chest, with the generator powering both recyclers.

Jochem

I'm more worried about the lag of having dozens of recyclers and generators running, routers or AE can take care of item routing :)

Arperum

@Jochem Do these cause so much lag?

Jochem

@Arperum any machine is going to have some code running most ticks, so technically more machines == more lag. I'm not sure how much recyclers and generators produce, lag-wise. It's just that the server is kinda overloaded as it is, so I try to be extra paranoid about lag

Arperum

@Jochem Ah ok, that way.

My server isn't having any lag issues at all (yet).

There's only the two of us though, so not that many people, a chunkloader with an advanced pump in the nether and a chunkloader in our base + a 64*64 quarry in a third world. and that's what's kept in memory.

Kevin van der Velden

09:21

Jeah, my plasma container is 0.5% full

Course, it is a quantum tank with 2 million buckets capacity xp

Jochem

09:33

@KevinvanderVelden I've been meaning to do the math for a quantum tank storing steam. I'm not sure how much energy is actually in 2MB of steam...

Kevin van der Velden

2 kEU/t is about 4 buckets / t

But the problem will be getting it out of the tanks

Jochem

@KevinvanderVelden hm, 5 liquiducts set to extract mode could get 800mB/t out, that's not a whole lot :/

I didn't even think of the "getting it back out" part

M'vy

11:18

@Jochem that's why the quantum tank for lava isn't so overpowered

you can tune the throughput

Jochem

@M'vy hehe, true :)

I'd love to start centrifuging lava, just for having done it (I don't really need any resources atm), but I'm worried about lag if I set up another pump, even if it's an advanced one

Arperum

11:58

What is the big difference between buildcraft waterproof pipes and liquiducts? aside from being from different mods?

M'vy

@Arperum you can more or less tune the speed and directions of liquids with the emerald and iron ones

you can't do that with liquiducts alone.

But you need MJ to pull liquid out of things and just redstone (or sometimes nothing) for LD

And BTW I think there is a compression factor that exists for LD. Not sure for WP.

Kevin van der Velden

Also liquiducts are much more server friendly because they're a multiblock. And they don't require time to transfer liquids inside of the ducts.

Arperum

Oh, gonna have to switch some stuff around then.

M'vy

And you can't remove them inadvertently

Arperum

And I just read that they produce light when filled with lava

@KevinvanderVelden So I can safely create a lot of random liquiductnetwork for lighting while causing a lot less lagg then when I do the same with waterproof pipes?

Jochem

12:11

@Arperum you don't even need the liquiducts hooked up to anything, once you fill them with liquid

also, liquiducts have twice the capacity per connection to a block, and the compression is effectively infinite, so any number of hookups can travel through a single pipe and out the other end without a problem

Arperum

@Jochem so if you connect it twice to a tank and twice to some fluid absorbing monstruosity of doom and destruction and in between a single liquiduct wide it would output twice as fast as when it was singly hooked to both tank and construct?

Jochem

@Arperum yes, though with most devices you don't even have to hook the consumer up twice

Arperum

@Jochem Well no, but it was theoretically speaking. Would hooking up a single entrance and double exits work the same? or vice versa?

Jochem

no, the limit is on the entrance pipes, not the exit pipes

any potential limit on the exit pipe is set up by the receiving block

Arperum

so double entrances and a single exit would speed it up?

versus the single/single setup of course

I am so building some tank that is completely coated in liquiduct entrances now.

just because compelte and utter overkill is always good.

Jochem

12:23

@Arperum yes, it should

hehe :) remember that to pull liquid from a tank, you need to get a redstone signal to the entrance pipe and wrench it into output mode

M'vy

you sure of this?

We managed to get twice the throughput but no more last time

Arperum

@Jochem Yea, I didn't know that, and then got completely stumped when our advanced pump didn't work at all.

Jochem

I've used it on steam boilers, I think

the problem with pumps is that they output liquid, and liquiducts can be a little picky when they get liquid offered instead of having to pull it out

Arperum

@Jochem After trying a couple things with the liquiducts connected to the advanced pump I found the output mode and noticed that hitting a button gave some result.

Jochem

ah ok :)

Arperum

12:27

so the next step was sending the other guy after some redstone stuff to create a redstone clock.

He hadn't even left the nether yet or I called him back.

I then tried with a redstone torch and it worked.

After that we went to have a look at our BC tank pile and were both awestruck by the speed it was filling up.

That was a rather awesome moment.

Jochem

yeah, depending on how you power your pump, it can go pretty quick :o I filled up a full size xycraft tank in my SSP world in no time.

Arperum

Before the advanced pump we had a single magma crucible...

Or we had to manually put a lot of liquid into an endertank of which another one was outputting in our tankstack.

Jochem

ah yeah, then it'd be extra fast ;)

Arperum

Our stored lava did a first serious crash when our first MFSU gor hooked to a couple thermal generators. The second crash was slower, and mostly caused by three extra magmatic engines to power our quarry

user43095

I had a recycler generator electricial engine loop powering a quarry a while back. It was self sustaining.

Arperum

12:41

@jeffreylin_ And what do you do with the excess cobble you can't recycle fast enough?

user43095

Shove it in a buffer. It had close to 10 over clocks, so it just went vroom vroom vroom!

user43095

At the end, there wasn't enough cobble, so I added an igneous extruded too to keep it happy.

user43095

I would provide pictures, but that setup eventually caused a chunk reset due to Enderchests in Twilight Forest.

Arperum

@jeffreylin_ So enderchests are unsafe in the twilight forest?

user43095

Cause a chunk reset

user43095

12:47

Anyway, I ended with so much maze stone...

Arperum

@jeffreylin_ That's rather bad.

user43095

Tesseracts FTW!

user43095

I only lost a couple diamond chests of maze stone, a quarry, some water mills, etc.

Arperum

We are currently in some labyrinth, and I've been deliberately setting of traps to get the mazestone. It has armor aspect on it. I need more armor aspect for my thaumcraft research.

user43095

Note that this was DW20, so no GT

user43095

12:48

Traps? 64*64 Quarry is more like it

Arperum

Yea well, that might come later.

We just beat up the boss.

user43095

Or maybe a nuke

user43095

or itnt

Arperum

or if I need some I might grab a wand of equal trade and an inventory of cobble.

user43095

Did you kill the Spawner?

Arperum

12:50

@jeffreylin_ What spawner?

We beat up some mooshroom thingy in a closed off room.

user43095

The Spawner that spawns the boss

user43095

more bosses are going to spawn

Arperum

@jeffreylin_ I didn't even know there was a spawner.

user43095

I think there is. You get a nice view of about 20 spammers once you start quarrying everything

Arperum

I knew naga things start out with a spawner because I've seen one a couple times, but i guess the naga blows it up almost immediately.

user43095

12:54

MobGriefing off

Arperum

@jeffreylin_ But then I can't use creepers to mine :(

user43095

That's what a mining laser is for

user43095

carefulfor careful, it kills you even in quantum If you set it to explosive

Arperum

Also, having a naga go in a crazy destruction spree when you lure it out of it's area is fun.

user43095

Never battled one. My way, AFK, breakfast

Jochem

14:04

I just spent like... two hours trying to figure out why something wasn't working on the dev environment at work for a project I haven't worked on in weeks... only to find out that I took my admin rights away last time I worked on it to test something, and never reset them

user43095

14:40

=P

user43095

Also, what could Lua be used for other than CC?

Jochem

14:51

@jeffreylin_ it's quite commonly used as a scripting language in games, so a lot of other games

Lua (programming language)

Lua ( , from meaning moon; explicitly not "LUA") is a lightweight multi-paradigm programming language designed as a scripting language with "extensible semantics" as a primary goal. Lua is cross-platform since it is written in ISO C. Lua has a relatively simple C API, thus "Lua is especially useful for providing end users with an easy way to program the behavior of a software product without getting too far into its innards." History Lua was created in 1993 by Roberto Ierusalimschy, Luiz Henrique de Figueiredo, and Waldemar Celes, members of the Computer Graphics Technology Group (T...

the link actually goes to the 'applications' part of the article, which is of interest

user43095

@Jochem I figure I'm going to learn a language this summer, wondering if Lua is a good one to learn, practical, usability, etc.

Martin Sojka

16:51

@jeffreylin_ As long as your goal is to learn a programming language instead of just programming, Lua is fine.

user43095

@martin what's the difference?

user43095

I'm looking into python after Lua. Going to be a busy summer.

gnovice

17:12

@jeffreylin_ I think what Martin is getting at is if you want to learn the fundamentals of programming (like memory management, data structures and algorithms, object-oriented concepts, etc.), you would be better off learning a lower level language like C or C++ than higher level languages like Python or Lua, which tend to hide much of the complexity behind quick and easy to use syntax and interfaces.

Coronus

@jeffreylin_ I think the point is that scripting languages (Lua, Python, Javascript) are used in specific environments, and generally aren't used as stand-alone products. Lua is good for scripting mob behaviors, but you wouldn't go out and write a full application in it. And what @gnovice said.

Jochem

@jeffreylin_ I'd suggest Python over Lua. Lua has some restrictions in language constructs that are rather generally available in other languages. If you learn to work around those limitations first, and then have to unlearn your workarounds, that might be problematic.

There's codecademy.com if you want some good learning resources, for various languages.

also, I'd honestly suggest picking a project and then picking a language rather than the other way around.

and by all means, learn the basics before you start your intended learning project, but if you don't have something you want to accomplish that isn't some exercise from a book, you're going to have trouble keeping at it

and trying to figure stuff out for yourself is a much bigger learning experience than being able to check the right way in a book

Coronus

17:34

@Jochem That's neat. I just found out about Google Cloud Playground yesterday, been dying to try it out.

Looks like a good way to try what you learn and see samples of others' code too.

Jochem

huh, that's cool

I'm mostly getting a bunch of errors playing with the templates though

I'll have to take a closer look after dinner

user43095

@Jochem i will look into that

Jochem

17:50

@Coronus hm, seems it doesn't work in firefox for some reason

go go gadget Chrome \o/

Coronus

18:29

@Jochem That's good to know.

user43095

18:50

I dislike how python is case sentitive

Coronus

@jeffreylin_ Get used to it.

user43095

Annoying on my iPad where everything starts capitalized

Jochem

@jeffreylin_ yikes, don't program on a soft keyboard X_X

Coronus

@jeffreylin_ I don't think the problem in this situation is the programming language...

Jochem

you're going to spend most of your time screaming at the keyboard to do what you want, and the rest of the time nursing your sprained wrists

user43095

18:57

@Jochem lol

Jochem

19:32

so how crazy would I be if I started setting up giant nether quarries?

and would it be a lag causing thing?

I'm trying to get through my backlog of ores, and was figuring out how to make sodium persulfate cells... one thing you need is sulfur which you can get from all the gregtech nether ores and just plain old grinding+centrifuging netherack... also netherack == lagless lava == energy gain

Coronus

I don't see it causing more lag than in a mining age.

Jochem

the only problem I can forsee is lava reflow, but that should be a one time thing

if it hits a lava lake on the way down, it'll cause reflow for every level it goes down at the shores of the lava lake

Coronus

How much are you looking to bring in?

Jochem

I honestly have no clue how much I'd need... I think somewhere along the lines of 3500+ sulfur, eventually

though wait, I think you can cook gunpowder into sulfur

I've got 26k of that :D

so scrap the quarry plan :D

Coronus

@Jochem That's handy.

Jochem

19:44

yeah, it's nice. Byproduct of my creeper soul shard

Coronus

@Jochem I need to start some of these shards. I am just so unmotivated. My creeper and wither skel shards have a handful each. :|

Jochem

@Coronus I got one or two shards legitimately, the rest I've gotten (or am getting) by combining shards in the anvil

Coronus

@Jochem Tell me more.

Jochem

you get 150 bonus souls in the combining, and they don't need to match souls

Coronus

@Jochem wat

Jochem

19:46

so what I've been doing for quick and cheap-ish souls is flying around the mining age, picking up druid spawners with the portal gun, and putting them on torches to make them pop

that turns them into pig spawners

Coronus

@Jochem That didn't work for me.

Jochem

then, I make a bunch of soul shards (diamonds are cheap anyways) and kill 1 pig on a bunch of soul shards

Coronus

It slid off

Jochem

might be lag, make sure you hold your mouse still before you let go

then, rightclick your fresh new pig spawners for 200 bonus souls, and combine a couple of shards with the 1 kill shard of your mob of choice

it'll take some levels and some extra diamonds, but you get rid of all the grinding

you can do it without pigspawners too, it just costs a few more diamonds

Coronus

Ok, maybe I'll give this a go. I have a couple of zombie spawners under my farmhouse.

Jochem

20:01

you also know you can fill shards using MFR spawned mobs right?

Coronus

Yes, right now I am really just interested in the wither skel shard. I can't remember what I originally wanted the shards for.

Jochem

do you need some wither skulls?

I've got 273 in storage atm, can't imagine I'll need close to 100 netherstars soon

Coronus

Well... yes, but I... 273??!

Jochem

I left my wither farm running over the weekend accidentally <_<

wither skelly farm that is

Coronus

Well, I miscounted originally, I think I only need 1 or 2. I've spent a few nights trying every now and then, but no luck.

So I've used it as a chance to get some shard kills.

I'm thinking with my luck I'd have a full legit shard before finding a frickin skull.

Jochem

20:08

lol :) well, feel free to stop by any time. in fact, I'll just plomp a stack in the community chest at NightGo Industries

there, stack of skulls in the community chest if anyone needs them

Coronus

@Jochem This still won't stop me from following through with this T-5 wither skull shard. I just checked it out. Thanks for letting me know.

Jochem

no problem :)

oh man, I am so close to getting an alveary... just two more scented panelling

Jochem

21:01

omg the lag...

Coronus

@Jochem lol The server has been up for a few days, hasn't it.

Jochem

two I think, yeah :)

it's that weird burst lag

it runs fine for 2 seconds, then not for 3 or 4

Coronus

@Jochem Yeah, Knight was on last night and her block lag wasn't so bad, but I got on this morning and had fun watching the moon rubber band across the sky.

Jochem

lol :) @M'vy can reboot the server now too though if he's around :)

Coronus

I figured that was the best route, since he's the one I saw playing the most, and I trust him the most out of all of us to not push the wrong button.

gnovice

21:27

So, is the dynmap dead?

Jochem

@gnovice I think it was turned off

Coronus

21:40

It was probably to save on resources. On my server Dynmap bumps up the CPU quite a bit.

M'vy

22:06

Hey

in need of a restart?

Jochem

@M'vy I think so, it was really bad when I was on earlier

M'vy

Restarting

some minuttes after the start:

2013-07-02 22:10:39 [WARNING] [Minecraft] Can't keep up! Did the system time change, or is the server overloaded?

Memory and CPU are screaming

Jochem

ugh :/

M'vy

I wonder how the system is with MC not started

Coronus

@M'vy I see that sometimes in the middle of the night when there's nobody on my server, and it recovers just fine. I've been wondering about it.

M'vy

22:13

@Coronus What I mean if maybe the machine need a restart

Coronus

Oh ok.

Jochem

The only thing I've changed in the last couple of days is that I've made some export/import busses hooked up to a carpenter and a centrifuge

M'vy

@Jochem It's been running smoothly recently?

Jochem

It was yesterday, and I had that setup running then

M'vy

load average: 0.84, 1.54, 1.53

with no server loaded?

Coronus

22:19

@M'vy I blame Greg.

M'vy

@Coronus lol

 load average: 1.81, 1.33, 1.41

server loaded

NightExcessive

@M'vy I wish @ThomasMcDonald would get back to me on the offer that I made.

Regardless, CPU load isn't very useful in measuring the performance of our Minecraft server on this VM.

M'vy

swap seems limited

at least it's not trashing

atm

NightExcessive

@M'vy As this is a VM, host swap matters far more than guest swap. The host machine is swapping us a decent amount (seemingly ~8%)

M'vy

hum

yeah java...

Coronus

22:33

@NightExcessive Yeah, I'd say we just go for it, but I'm not in a position to be the one financially responsible on that deal. I can certainly add periodic donations, however.

Macha

Have you tried TickProfiler if you're having lag? It'll tell you what's taking up most of the tick time.

user43095

23:05

@NightExcessive I believe @TimStone is in charge of purchases and stuff.

user43095

@Macha I suggested that, but apparently it needs a thing called ant (cc @M'vy)

M'vy

@Macha I need to find time to build it somewhere else and hope it will run on another machine

Macha

Oh, don't they have builds released?

In fact, here it is: nallar.me/buildservice/job/TickProfiler-1.4.7/…

Or for 1.5.2: nallar.me/buildservice/job/TickProfiler

user30

Jun 11 at 19:37, by Thomas McDonald

but it sounds good to me

Coronus

Oh, I thought that was to the testing. :P

Coronus

23:27

@NightExcessive So if you get it all set up, how do we take care of payments, is the main question.

NightExcessive

@ThomasMcDonald We still need to figure out how we want to get the money to the host.

@Coronus It's mostly setup already. Preparing it for normal use will simply require taking down the current server and syncing everything over to the new server.

Coronus

Well, I'm able to put in enough for a couple of months, sometime in the near future.

We should probably just get a PayPal set up for us to chip in.

user43095

23:45

Bit coins?

NightExcessive

@jeffreylin_ Although I regularly use Bitcoins, I doubt that @ThomasMcDonald does.

The host says that he will accept Bitcoins, though. (same price, based on MtGox exchange rates)

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