@vzn I am trying to decide whether to take CS courses at my university. The intro level courses code in Haskell. I read that article you posted. Does this mean computer science has little to do with tools that are useful for most jobs/workforce?

@user1667423 It seems that the Wikipedia article touches this and gives plenty of references. What have you found there.

@StanShunpike I don't know vzn's opinion, but I certainly disagree. Well, depends on your notion of "tool". CS itself provides plenty of (abstract/theoretic) tools, such as algorithms and data structure. Plus, many "technology tools" work as well as they do because of decades of CS research, e.g. compilers.

@StanShunpike hi stan whats new... the article was quite controversial/ polemical, complex. CS teaching has a long and evolving history. the article seems to be pointing out that software engineering has more economic value and CS is becoming somewhat more academic. am seeing somewhat similar debates going on in physics chat room where phd graduate is looking into engineering type edu/ work.

to me have always thought CS and software engineering mesh in many ways, but that may be a minority pov & more reflecting of my personal feelings.

this meta question has some comparison/ contrast of CS vs software engr.

there are several dichotomies at play. eg "doing what you love" vs "doing what pays the bills" that can be a quandary both in school & outside.

also our economic system values innovation/ entrepreneurship differently than academia/ pure research etc., sometimes dramatically/ starkly.

you ask about haskell. there is an unwritten concept in both CS/ engr edu that they sometimes teach general concepts that crosscut languages but using a selected language. in my day it was scheme & structure/ interpretation of computer programs by abelson/ sussman (MIT).

there are 2 lines of thinking in schools. in more trade schools, they try to use mainstream/ common languages. in CS & sometimes engr there may be less emphasis on languages used "in industry".

top languages "in industry" are basically java, c++, c. many colleges have java/ c++ classes & recommend those if you are concerned about industry stds/ "skills marketability".

for more industry related content try this site

@vzn firstly, I am awesome. I just had an excellent quarter and took my first econ class so a lot of fun. And I am very excited to try out some CS hopefully.

@vzn something that may interest you. My father's MOOC launches July 13. He will be the first UChicago law professor to run a course and all of it is about the intersection of law and computing technology.

Watch the intro video just to get a flavor. coursera.org/course/internetgiants he's going to cover a bunch of tech topics and since ur super smart and know a bunch about cs, I think you might enjoy it.

I found learning Java, C++, and C relatively easy. So I think online courses would be fine or maybe there are select ones at my uni. But will a CS degree be worth anything? Is that only a path to academia?

@StanShunpike "Does a cs course have to be in a marketable language to be of use?" In short, no. You can learn something marketable from any cs course, though you can also learn nothing from any cs course. The marketable skill won't necessarily be directly from the language, but might instead be debugging skills, a better understanding of machine organization, or other so-called marketable skills.

In computer science, a marketable skill isn't necessarily mastery/knowledge of a specific language, but rather higher-level skills you can apply and reuse in many contexts.

@skeggse What are some critical things a marketable CS education should provide?

And by marketable I mean flexible

Enough experience / training that I have options

I can only speak from the perspective of someone who has successfully entered the software development as a self-taught developer; I just finished my first year as an undergraduate, but I held a number of software development positions before electing to go to college. My education prior to working was varied, and the skills I now market center around my ability to quickly pick up a new tool/language/framework.

This ability stems from higher-level skills, including debugging, communicating, documentation, and research.

There are probably more, but those are the skills that come to mind

You generally pick these up through a CS education, but as always that depends on how much effort you put into it

Hopefully that helps

It does! Thanks for the feedback. I am still aggregating info so glad to have your thoughts.

Generally, I have enough broad knowledge about how things work in CS that I can relatively quickly pick up a new skill when my work requires it

Yeah, no problem

@Raphael I suppose my definition of "tool" is that which is useful to the workforce. Metaphorically, I envision stuff I learn in class like tools in a tool box. And I try to invest time into tools that might be useful for many situations.

Mostly my recommendation is that you become familiar with many different aspects of CS such that you can pick up something new if necessary. Example: get used to a number of documentation tools, so that if a company you join is using one, you have a relatively shallow learning curve, and already know what purpose such a tool would serve. Same thing goes for other tools like compilers, issue trackers, etc

Even more simply: get good at doing things that could be useful in a number of contexts. You'll create a broad knowledge base to draw from, and be able to reapply existing skills in new ways/contexts.