So is terdon POSIXly correct or not?

If the host shell is POSIX sh, no subshell is mandated and only a "separate utility environment" is used to execute the command. If the host shell is bash, it's allowed to make a subshell if it wants and I don't know if it does

The distinction between "a subshell" and "the first half of fork/exec" is somewhat illusive, though

@MichaelHomer I see, thanks.

→ 10 messages moved to Room for Tim's questions

Why am I followed by a user who just attacked my post on SO?

There. I moved your messages to a new room and I made you the owner of that room.

Please use that room to store your questions and not this one which is the main room of the Unix and Linux site.

chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/115200/room-for-tims-questions

I posted it here, because their behaviors need to be exposed and I have no place to do that. They stole my speech freedom on meta.stackexchange.com and stackoverflow.

@Tim Well, this is not the place for that either.

And we have had this discussion before. Many, many times. Over many years,.

This room is a public room for discussions around Unix, Linux, the U&L site etc. It is not to be used as your private dumping ground or storage space.

Because it has been a plague on SO for many years

Then take it to SO, but stop bringing it here.

What? where is my speech freedom on SO?

@Tim Not here.

SO does not guarantee you freedom of speech. Neither does any other SE site. These sites are censured regularly and have never pretended otherwise. There is no freedom of speech here.

That is why freedom of speech needs to fight for.

besides justice

Perhaps so. But this is not the place for it.

Trust me, if I have a better place to do so, I will do so

If you need what you call freedom of speech, and if you consider closing your questions as an attack on that freedom, then you should not be using these sites. I recommend one of the dozens of forums, or reddit or any other place with less censorship than here.

Given that it is me not you, I am not sure if you actually follow through what you saidt if it were you.

I don't understand what that means.

But yes, of course I wouldn't be using these sites if I felt the way you do! You hate everything about what makes the SE network work. And that's fine, you have every right to dislike the way we do things. But that's why you would be happier somewhere else.

Moreover, leaving is not cure. Nothing will change if people follow what you said

Me, I love the censorship. It's what makes the sites work for me.

Because you don't see it will backfire

or you won't have the risk, because of your socioeconomic and intellectual status

Perhaps. But that's irrelevant. If you want to use these sites, you need to accept their rules. End of story. If you feel these rules are unfair or oppressive, then you are very free to go somewhere else. But if you choose to remain, you must abide by the rules.

I have followed the rules. Those who attacked me didn't.

OK.

I never initiated attacks on other users. I confronted their attacks

They retaliated me

I am not going to rehash this. We have been over it dozens of times, and we will not agree. Your definition of "attack" is very different to mine.

At the end of the day, either you accept that you will be subjected to things you consider an "attack", resign yourself to that and continue using SE or you decide this is too unpleasant for you and stop using the sites. These are the only two options you have.

In any case, you should not use this room as the dumping ground for the complaints you have with other users or sites of the network.

I was wondering why I have been followed from SO?

I don't think my chat account is associated with SO

I don't know about your being "followed" (it's a public network, after all), but it's trivial to find your chat account. Just go to chat.stackexchange.com and search fot "Tim"

chat.stackexchange.com/users/118021/antti-haapala instantly followed me here after suppressing my post on SO

There is another user from SO, who wasn't involved

@Tim Yes, so?

I feel being monitored across the network

Sorry to hear that. Unfortunately, that's part of being in a public network: everything is public here.

without knowing it is possible

How's the new gig so far @terdon?

So far so good. Same gig though, really, just getting bigger as we grow.

Nice. Building a good team?

Yes. It's an interesting challenge :)

How bout you, did that change you were hoping for materialize?

@terdon Yeah, I start a new job in november :)

Oh hey, and that's a good thing, I take it?

Yeah I'm excited about it. Seems like a great company so far

Great! Congratulations!

Is it along the same lines? Cloud services?

Yeah. It's with Packet

looks cool, well done!

Do you need to move?

Naw it's remote

even better!

@AndrasDeak As a fellow TeX user, I'm wondering if you are able to understand this answer without further explanation.

I didn't, even after reading the relevant sections of "TeX by Topic", till it was explained to me in chat.

I'm a latex user :)

@AndrasDeak I'm not sure if that answers my question.

It doesn't directy, but it hints at that I have no idea how tex primitives such as \def work.

which is to say I have no idea how any of that works

@AndrasDeak So that's a no, then?

yup, nope

Ok, never mind. Though it's hard to do much in LaTeX (or anywhere else), without being somewhat familiar with the underlying TeX primitives, I expect.

I'm not very familiar with TeX myself, but am becoming gradually more so.

I now kind of wish I'd read the TeXBook as a child. It would have been much more useful than some of the things I did read.

Much like with linux stuff, I'm an end user of *TeX. I typeset text and formulae, and draw figures and create slides. But none of that needs looking at what goes on under the hood. I've needed \newcommand on occasion, but that ostensibly has pretty straightforward syntax.

@AndrasDeak I see. Not a priority then, I guess.

I've been doing more programming in TeX recently, which inevitably means looking more at the fundamentals.

yup

But I've been a TeX user since the 1990s, and only since 2014 have I really learned anything. Which is shameful, really.

And it's mostly because of TeX SE.

@FaheemMitha Why? If it Just Works there's no need to get your hands dirty. And TeX isn't exactly a compellingly beautiful language.

@AndrasDeak Did you look at that answer?

briefly

@AndrasDeak I guess I like to understand how things work.

Granted, life is short, and there isn't time to understand everything.

@AndrasDeak TeX has its good points, though I'm not going to step up to defend it.

But it's probably no worse than shell languages, and possibly better designed.

I can't really comment because I don't know anything about its internals

@AndrasDeak Fair enough.

It has a sort of bizarre elegance. It's also very efficient.

Most people don't realise what it's doing in the background, but it does everything at staggering speed.

well Donald Knuth is not a dumb guy :)