@StephenKitt I got this old comment on IRC from the Evolve maintainer:

> <marmoute> faheem: apparently, evolve doesn't build on Debian with python-sphinx 1.2.2 (it seems main was added after that version, so you can't do "python -m sphinx" like you're doing)

But Jessie has 1.2.3+dfsg-1. Obviously, I'm not familiar wih the history of sphinx. I don't think I've ever used it. Should such old versions really be a concern? Comments?

@Tim Something applied to the level that not everything looks like a nail, and people don't end up writing the sorts of commands Kusalananda quoted because they have a wider range of options they understand the implications of. The software carpentry workshops I've seen (that deal with that sort of thing, rather than statistics) seem to give people just enough rope, but stop too soon for people to understand what they're doing beyond the direct examples in front of them.

Some others start from too high a baseline, for people who have and wanted a true introductory programming background, and there's an unsatisfied gap in between

@MichaelHomer When it comes to programming, there are lots of gaps.

There is a lot of machinery out there, often free for the taking, but people, most of the time, have no idea how to use it effectively.

This is particularly for people who have something custom and unique for the computer to do, but aren't and don't want to be programmers at all

@StephenKitt That's evil.

Or at least naughty.

It does work though

It does.

@Kusalananda I know, I can delete it if you think it would be better...

@StephenKitt Well, it's a tongue-in-cheek answer, but it's also only funny if you know that it is and understand it. I'll leave it up to you though.

It does exactly what they asked for. Can't argue with results

Issue is that we don't know what "and so on" means.

If it's only supposed to list two more lines, then why did he leave those two line out?

While on the topic of evil/naughty, I found this rather interesting:

twitter.com/thatcks/status/1141365253558681600

@StephenKitt Hmm... That behaviour was fixed in bash-2.05a-rc1.

z.  Bash no longer attempts to discover if it's being run by sshd in order to
    run the startup files.  If the SSH_SOURCE_BASHRC is uncommented in
    config-top.h it will attempt to do so as previously, but that's commented
    out in the distributed version.

That means Chris must be running with a non-default (or very old) Bash.

@Kusalananda yes, non-default, as provided by Debian and derivatives, and Fedora :-/

His blog post clarifies things: utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/space/blog/unix/…

Wat up nixernauts?

doh, thanks @Kusalananda: I did notice that looked odd

:-)

I think Tim has understood his question better than me though

There's a slight difference between your two last variations in that the last one allows for (and will act on) more than one option.

A liberal application of break should fix that

Or skip the while.

You could do if getopts ...; then

!

TIL

You have to teach me what "TIL" means I'm afraid.

"Today I learned"

Ah, thanks.

Now you can say "TIL" too :p

Duh! TIL!

I never thought a day would come where I taught @Kusalananda something :)

To be fair I guess it would be ILJM in Swedish

@Jesse_b :-) Something like that, yes.

The only Swedish I know is Huu Ojdå!

@JeffSchaller More than google translate knows :p

I forget how it came up, now. It was during the U&L election, and Kusalananda told me it meant something like "oops" in Swedish. I was going to save it for my first mistake as a moderator.

@Jesse_b "Huu" is the sound you make when something stinks, and "Ojdå" (actually two words, "Oj då", but often written together) is "Oops".

@JeffSchaller Did we do anagrams or something? I can't remember.

No, it was encryption via Dvorak!

@Kusalananda I was trying to find the U&L election chat room, but maybe it's been put into cold storage now

Need to find some food.

"hmmm...what if, you walk into a room, and a girl looks at you, and says, 'ojdå'... did i have a nosebleed!?" -- "Hmm. Either you had a nosebleed (oops), or did something embarrassing (sigh) or you are stunningly good looking (wow) " -- Swedish is fun :)

lol

@JeffSchaller: Do you own a chainsaw?

close: chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/90893/2019/3/21 and closer: chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/90893?m=49480817#49480817

@Jesse_b I do, indeed! Used it a couple weekends ago and will be using it again in a few weeks.

@JeffSchaller Nice, what kind? I'm thinking about getting one of those ryobi 14" ones. I need to cut down a tree in my back yard and will probably need it for misc pruning and such in the future...plus it will be nice to have the right tool in case I ever come across a picnic table what needs cut in half

it is very satisfying to have the right tool for the job

I have a ryobi weed wacker with the same 2 stroke engine and it's been running strong for 2 years now with fairly regular use

I have a really old Craftsman chainsaw, inherited from my Dad; I think it's a 16" bar. I think I'd get myself into trouble if I got a bigger one (going after trees that I shouldn't)

it's a 2-cycle as well

Nice, yeah I think I would prefer a 16" but it seems like they start getting exponentially more expensive as the size goes up and I can't really justify a really expensive one on my tiny half acre

yeah, I'm no professional, but unless the tree in question is more than, say, 20" across, you'd be able to get the 14" bar most of the way through it, going around

Yeah the last tree I took down I did with an axe and a come along lol

if it's that big, I'd be cutting a wedge out one side anyway, so you're not cutting all the way through, regardless -- just have to reach halfway, with a little fudge

This one is pretty tall so I'll have to cut down most of the branches and upper sections separately and the 14" would be easier to climb a tree with

I think there is only like a 40% chance I'll die so I like my odds

yeah, if you can get a rope around the top section so a helper can pull it in a favorable direction, you should be good to go :)

Have a political question. If Bernie Sanders becomes president, how can he deliver what he thinks right, despite the senate is still under the control of GOP?

@Jesse_b can I ship you a pine log in a few weeks? I don't want to cut mine up

@Tim Hi Tim! You landed in the U&L chat; did you intend to hit a chat room on the Politics site?

Mitch McConnel has been destructive for the past decade

overusing fillibuster

@JeffSchaller hah, probably cost more to ship it than it would to rent a wood chipper. I bet you can throw it up on craigs list or similar as "free firewood" and someone will come grab it

Maybe you are looking for DIY chatroom too?

aka homeimprovement chatroom

@Tim I just wanted to make sure you landed where you intended, that's all!

@JeffSchaller Here's how I took down the last one: facebook.com/jesse.butryn/videos/vb.586605650/10160592716055651/…

It was leaning far over my fence so I wanted to make sure I didn't damage the fence

@Jesse_b :D glad the tree gave up before you ran out of slack! The pull at the end made me smile :)

@JeffSchaller Heh yeah, that's what that ratchet strap is for though. That is the method I use to pull my truck out when it's stuck when I'm offroad. "poor mans winch"

You can let the come along slack out and then tighten up the ratchet strap

@Jesse_b ahhh, I didn't catch that the other side was a ratchet strap. Smart!

well, I can say that I'd much prefer a chainsaw over an axe for that job. I haven't needed the 16" bar very often, so IMHO a 14" should be fine.

The tree that I was standing behind in that video is the one I need to cut down now

it's killing the conifer tree behind it and I much prefer the conifer tree

oh, nice! The three low forks makes that a nice piecemeal job

Hopefully

well, if you think you'll run across a bunch of picnic tables, go for it. Otherwise, your local home store might rent them?

probably cheaper than flying me out there to do it ;)

@JeffSchaller It's $57 a day to rent a 16" chainsaw from home depot and I can get that ryobi 14" for about $100. I think I'll use it at least twice (probably much more) so it's probably justifiable to buy rather than rent

I have five huge cotton wood trees in my yard as well (like 100+' tall each) and then sometimes drop widowmaker branches that need to be cut up

Plus I have a fireplace so if I have a chainsaw I can go get free wood from guys like you trying to get rid of recently felled trees and chop them into usable wood myself :)

@Jesse_b music to my ears!

Apparently Tim only dropped in to hint that we were having an off-topic discussion?

I think he was just being defensive because you suggested his question was off topic. I don't like talking politics though, last time I did @FaheemMitha got mad at me :(

Chainsaws could be on topic though...In the event you have a linux server what needs cut in half

@Jesse_b from ... several weeks ago? I don't remember a more recent interaction. Oh well.

@JeffSchaller Yeah we were talking about trump

In fact, I never voted to close that question, and it never was closed. Oh well

@Jesse_b ahhh; politics is hard. I don't get involved with it, either

@JeffSchaller Yeah I know it's kind of sad but I got a MOTD from fortune(6) a while back that said something along the lines of "I became a much happier person when I stopped following politics" and it seems like a pretty good lesson to learn

It would be nice to really try to follow politics and make the world a better place but it doesn't really seem possible to make a change at that level. I like the thing Jordan Peterson says like "If you can't clean your room, don't try to change the world". Basically about how if everyone made small changes for the better with things they can directly affect it will result in a widespread positive change

@Jesse_b I feel bad, because I should be more involved, particularly locally. Nationally, it's a lost cause right now, IMHO. But I'm always reminded of the phrase from HH2G: "anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job"

@JeffSchaller hah yeah, it's a popularity contest for egomaniacs

I know I still have a lot of improvements to make before I can start judging others though.

@Jesse_b I'm with ya. I realize that I don't understand what really goes on, so I'm just happy that our worst problems so far are mandated health care and people being caught making money -- and not bombs dropping in the streets or droughts

The real challenge for democratic socialists right now is to win the primary

over corporate democrats or democratic establishment, who have been looking for donations from the same donors as GOP.

If corporate democrats or democratic establishment win the primary of the democratic party, it will not matter much whether they or GOP wins the general election, just like 2016

Chainsaws are much more fun than politics. Probably less dangerous too

You ever use one of these @JeffSchaller?

For lawnmower blades

Hi

I have a question, can someone help me? :$

@AndySamuel Hola, what's up?

I have a host with bluehost, but he only let me get 5 emails with my domain

It's there any way to create my own mailing server?

@AndySamuel There is

Not really an easy task though for someone new to server administration and may end up costing more than your current hosting fees

@Jesse_b negative; when I get around to sharpening blades, it's with a whetstone

@JeffSchaller Dang that must take a while, or you don't have giant rocks all over your yard :p. I have to do some serious reprofiling at least twice a season. I used to use my 1x30 belt sander but I recently bought a 4 pack of those drill attachment ones to try out and I kind of like them so far

Although they are almost impossible to use with a hand held drill, they work really nice in a drill press though

@Jesse_b I was about to say, a hand-held would be hard to keep even pressure with; I also don't sharpen my blades as much as I should. It'll kill you to hear it, but having an awesome lawn is low on my todo list :)

@JeffSchaller Well that's because you already have it! :P

@Jesse_b I don't know how to tell you this, but: you're wrong :)

I suspect you live in Florida, or somewhere on the south east coast. The grass in your photo was particularly green

I've got grass, yes; also: clover, dandelions, crabgrass, moss, and bare spots

oh and shotweed

fewer weeds, now that the professionals have been called $$$ in

That reminds me I need to spread some weed and feed this weekend

Am trying to understand this syntax from a docker file

RUN { \
		echo '#!/bin/sh'; \
		echo 'set -e'; \
		echo; \
		echo 'dirname "$(dirname "$(readlink -f "$(which javac || which java)")")"'; \
	} > /usr/local/bin/docker-java-home \
	&& chmod +x /usr/local/bin/docker-java-home

echo 'dirname "$(dirname "$(readlink -f "$(which javac || which java)")")"'; will get directory where java or javac is located

create a new file docker-java-home and write the path of java or javac in that file

Running docker-java-home will just have path of java, when this file runs, content having java invokes

Am I correct?

close; the single quotes in that 4th echo means that content isn't evaluated until that docker-java-home script is executed -- not created

RUN set -x \
	&& apk add --no-cache \
		openjdk8="$JAVA_ALPINE_VERSION" \
	&& [ "$JAVA_HOME" = "$(docker-java-home)"

then it boils down to getting the 2nd directory "up" from the real javac binary on the system

see, that $(docker-java-home) executes the script, and returns that path above bin/javac

$ dirname /System/Library/Frameworks/JavaVM.framework/Versions/Current/Commands/javac
/System/Library/Frameworks/JavaVM.framework/Versions/Current/Commands
$ dirname /System/Library/Frameworks/JavaVM.framework/Versions/Current/Commands
/System/Library/Frameworks/JavaVM.framework/Versions/Current

in my MAC

readlink is just giving the canonical file name?

which javac gives /usr/bin/javac

correct; /usr/bin/javac is likely a symlink to (eventually) that /System/Library/... path

yes

In this configuration for NGINX install...

RUN GPG_KEYS=B0F4253373F8F6F510D42178520A9993A1C052F8 \
	&& CONFIG="\
		--prefix=/etc/nginx \
		--sbin-path=/usr/sbin/nginx \
		--modules-path=/usr/lib/nginx/modules \
		--conf-path=/etc/nginx/nginx.conf \
		--error-log-path=/var/log/nginx/error.log \
		--http-log-path=/var/log/nginx/access.log \
		--pid-path=/var/run/nginx.pid \
		--lock-path=/var/run/nginx.lock \
		--http-client-body-temp-path=/var/cache/nginx/client_temp \
		--http-proxy-temp-path=/var/cache/nginx/proxy_temp \
		--http-fastcgi-temp-path=/var/cache/nginx/fastcgi_temp \

Is wsgi and cgi for python modules?

images.app.goo.gl/YVdQ2xgdNdc1t7bu6

@overexchange you might consider asking on the site; the code got cut off before the actual command, so I don't have any context for what the container is and is supposed to do

ok

Does volume instruction create target space in container?

# Create the folders and volume mount points
RUN mkdir -p /var/log/jenkins
RUN chown -R jenkins:jenkins /var/log/jenkins

RUN mkdir -p /var/jenkins_home
RUN chown -R jenkins:jenkins /var/jenkins_home

VOLUME ["/var/log/jenkins", "/var/jenkins_home"]

I know... how docker volume create works..

what is the source point for these volumes?

here mountpoint is named ubervol in this command docker container run -dit --name voltestcont –mount source= ubervol, target=/vol alpine:latest

In the above docker file, is the mount point anonymous?

@overexchange You specify the volume to use (optionally) when running the container.

Which can be one you've created with docker volume create

See, e.g., docker run's -v argument

(or the --mount argument)

For what the various things in a dockerfile do, try docs.docker.com/engine/reference/builder

@derobert I read this documentation

but it does not give this information