/dev/chat

I'm curious to hear some other opinions on this Answer -- unix.stackexchange.com/a/494613/117549 -- is it delete-worthy? It's completely missing the point, but it's not completely unrelated to the question. I almost voted to delete (mainly because it's no real use at all), but stopped short on the advice of "it attempts to answer the question"

@terdon, could I bother you for your opinion on the above?

I hesitated to ping you directly, but you appear to be active on the site at the moment.

Stephen Kitt

@JeffSchaller it’s unsalvageable so delete-worthy IMO

but it is somewhat debatable

there are plenty of answers on the site which completely miss the point, and we generally don’t delete them

Jeff Schaller

ideally (IMHO) the poster would self-delete it after reading the comments; just not sure where to draw the moderation line here

one could downvote it, as not useful, but ...new contributor... and honest attempt...

Stephen Kitt

@JeffSchaller does that happen much? I rarely see it

Jeff Schaller

@StephenKitt can't say I keep track; usually the higher-rep users (who know the workings of the site already) will self-delete when it's apparent they're on the wrong track

Stephen Kitt

3:49 PM

@JeffSchaller yes, high-rep users, and even then mostly really high-rep users IME

Jeff Schaller

I imagine a new Stack user could easily be thrown off by having their answer disappear

Faheem Mitha

What rep do you have to have to vote to delete?

I don't see a VTD button here.

Jeff Schaller

@FaheemMitha it showed up in the LQP queue

Faheem Mitha

@JeffSchaller Oh, so only there? Not on the regular site?

Jeff Schaller

Wow! "deleted by owner 2 mins ago"

Stephen Kitt

3:52 PM

Well done new contributor!

Jeff Schaller

@FaheemMitha seems 20k "trusted user"

Faheem Mitha

Randomly opened Debian Planet after a long time, and happened across this piece of weirdness.

daniel-lange.com/archives/…

@JeffSchaller But apparently only inside the queue. At least, I'm not seeing in on the main site.

Stephen Kitt

@FaheemMitha it only appears on answers with a negative score

Faheem Mitha

@StephenKitt Oh. In the queue or outside?

Stephen Kitt

@FaheemMitha outside

Faheem Mitha

3:56 PM

@StephenKitt Ok. And are the rules different inside the queue?

Stephen Kitt

@FaheemMitha in the queue, I think zero-scored posts can be deleted too, or is that "recommend deletion" only? Jeff would know

or we could look it up in his Meta Q&A

Faheem Mitha

@StephenKitt Presumably it's always recommend unless you've got a gold badge or something.

I mean, you can't straight delete an answer.

Stephen Kitt

@FaheemMitha no, the counting rules are different, gold doesn’t facilitate deletion

you need three "delete" votes or six "recommend deletions" IIRC

Faheem Mitha

@StephenKitt I thought it did.

Stephen Kitt

@FaheemMitha no, the gold badge only gives you the dupe hammer

Jeff Schaller

4:01 PM

meta.stackexchange.com/a/5222/307535 might help

I don't have a firm handle on the "delete" vs "recommend deletion" myself; I've been surprised when one shows up over the other

it's a "straightforward" 14-step decision tree

I was about to say "recommend" came up with positively-scored answers, but this one appears to have been zero and got lots of "recommends" -- unix.stackexchange.com/review/low-quality-posts/276359

Faheem Mitha

@StephenKitt Meaning you can close as a dupe immediately?

@JeffSchaller An actual decision tree might be clearer.

Stephen Kitt

@FaheemMitha yes

Jeff Schaller

@FaheemMitha on questions that are tagged with one of his gold tags

although now I wonder if it'd have to be revision-1 tagged? what's to stop you from editing the tags then dupe-closing?

@FaheemMitha I'd write one, but first I'd have to understand it

Stephen Kitt

@JeffSchaller on a tag that the gold-hammer-wielder didn't set

Jeff Schaller

@StephenKitt oh hoh, there's the rub; nice

Stephen Kitt

4:09 PM

But it can get quite complex because in some cases, a tag that was set in the past will count, even if it’s not set any more; so sometimes you can hammer a question closed without realising it’s going to happen.

(Of course you can also one-hit-reopen.)

Faheem Mitha

@JeffSchaller Yes, that part I got.

@StephenKitt Has this happened to you?

Stephen Kitt

@FaheemMitha not that I can remember.

Motivated

Hi there. Can anyone help me understand when a command such as rpm --query --provides vlc should be used? Equally, when should rpm --query --recommends vlc, rpm --query --supplements vlc, rpm --query --conflicts vlc be used? What is the purpose of the types of dependencies? In reading rhttp://rpm.org/user_doc/dependencies.html, it is no clearer.

Faheem Mitha

Let's hope SE is better at writing bug-free code than most of the other people out there.

Indian standards are particularly dire, but they're not the only one sinning.

Complicated rules are even more of a problem if they aren't implemented correctly.

Stephen Kitt

@Motivated please ask a question on the main site

Motivated

4:16 PM

@StephenKitt - I did and it was downvoted. Based on the responses, it suggested to me that it wasn't a question that people thought was appropriate asking.

Stephen Kitt

@Motivated oh, OK, I didn’t see it on your profile

Motivated

@Stephen Kitt - Yes, i subsequently deleted it since the feedback had been negative i.e. it was downvoted and that signaled to me that it wasn't a question people felt was valuable to maintain on the site.

Stephen Kitt

@Motivated so you don’t want to leave it on the main site, but you ask it in chat? ;-)

Faheem Mitha

@Motivated Really? Link?

Motivated

@StephenKitt - If someone was willing to help me understand the concept, yes. This would enable me to post a meaningful question.

Stephen Kitt

4:22 PM

Perhaps a question about something specific you don’t understand on rpm.org/user_doc/dependencies.html would be better received.

Motivated

@FaheemMitha - unix.stackexchange.com/questions/494213/…

Faheem Mitha

@Motivated Thank you.

Motivated

@StephenKitt - Funnily enough those are my specific questions.

@StephenKitt - I provided more details on my attempt to ask and understand in my original post - unix.stackexchange.com/questions/494213/…

Faheem Mitha

@Motivated You wrote - If the pulseaudio package is already installed, why is there a recommendation to install libpulse0?

Motivated

Yes.

Faheem Mitha

4:25 PM

The question doesn't make sense. These are different packages.

Questions like - What do recommends, conflicts, obsoletes, suggests and supplements refer to?

Stephen Kitt

I’m curious why you would delete a question which obviously took you quite some time to write, after only one downvote. Were there any comments on it?

Faheem Mitha

are too broad for the site. People will just direct you to a manual, assuming they bother to reply. If you have specific questions about the definitions, then it's reasonable to ask.

Stephen Kitt

@FaheemMitha I wouldn’t say that, there are other similar questions (similar in scope); the question itself might get downvoted of research, but I’d say it’s worth answering here

Motivated

@FaheemMitha - That isn't entirely correct. libpulse0 is part of the pulseaudio package.

Stephen Kitt

@Motivated no, it’s part of the pulseaudio source package, but it’s not the same binary package

so a package can depend on libpulse0 without depending on pulseaudio

Faheem Mitha

4:29 PM

@Motivated Presumably rpm wouldn't try to get you to install it if it was already installed.

That's the library package.

Well, or suggest you install it. Whatever.

@StephenKitt If you want the site to include manual type entries, then I guess so.

Motivated

@StephenKitt - Ah. That's a bit clearer. How can a package depend on a library if it part of the source package. I would have thought that if it is part of the source package, it would be part of the build.

Faheem Mitha

I personally don't care, but duplicating documentation doesn't seem to be what the site is about. Of course, lots of free software documentation is horrendous. I don't know what the rpm docs are like, though.

Stephen Kitt

@Motivated one source package can produce multiple binary packages; dependencies only concern binary packages

Motivated

@StephenKitt - May seem trivial to most people for me to be asking questions such as these but for a beginner it's a minefield to understand.

Stephen Kitt

@FaheemMitha that’s why I suggested asking a question about something specific which is unclear to the OP (the “Tim approach”)

@Motivated yes, of course

Faheem Mitha

4:32 PM

Actually, I take that back. I think "rpm --query --recommends MozillaFirefox" is just listing the recommends of the package.

Motivated

@StephenKitt - Right. I wasn't aware of that. If that's the case why reference a library?

Faheem Mitha

It isn't actually looking at what your system has installed.

So your system may well have libpulse0 installed.

@Motivated If you want answers to those questions, I suggest you not delete the question.

Stephen Kitt

@Motivated the pulseaudio package provides the PulseAudio daemon

the libpulse0 package provides the library which PulseAudio clients use to talk to the daemon

Faheem Mitha

And I suggest not worrying too much about downvotes. It doesn't pay to be too sensitive.

Stephen Kitt

PA clients need the library, they don't need the daemon

Faheem Mitha

4:34 PM

If you get a ton of downvotes, you can always delete later. Deletion is always an option.

Motivated

@FaheemMitha - So what's the value in using recommends then in that example?

Faheem Mitha

@Motivated Your question asked what they refer to. I'm not sure what you are asking now.

Do you want to know what they mean, or something else?

Stephen Kitt

Perhaps it would be worth reading the Fedora RPM guide

Motivated

@FaheemMitha - It wasn't so much the case of being sensitive. It was a case of if people felt it was appropriate and down voted it then it probably was a case of people not wanting to answer it.

Stephen Kitt

@Motivated one person downvoted it

Motivated

4:36 PM

@StephenKitt - To clarify, do you mean that the output of recommends references both source packages and binary packages?

Faheem Mitha

@Motivated Which people? I only see one downvote and no comments. Am I missing something, or do you have Stack Exchange telepathy?

@Motivated Packages in this context are always binary packages.

Stephen Kitt

@Motivated no, dependencies (of any kind) only reference binary packages

(or virtual packages, strictly speaking)

Motivated

@StephenKitt - Yes and generally my experience with Stack Exchange has been that if one person has down voted it the probabilities of it being answered are that much closer to zero

Stephen Kitt

@Motivated not on Unix.SE ;-)

Here, the metric for the likelihood of an answer is whether the question is closed or not, not whether it is downvoted.

Faheem Mitha

@Motivated Your question could use improvement, but I suggest undeleting for now.

Motivated

4:40 PM

@StephenKitt - If you can provide guidance on what should be changed in my original question, i'm happy to post it again. It is unfortunate that users are not required to post a comment when down voting so that there is context to the down vote. So to answer Faheem's question, it presupposes i have telepathy :-)

@FaheemMitha - Sure. If you can provide input to what should change, happy to repost it.

Stephen Kitt

@Motivated don’t post it again, undelete it

Motivated

@StephenKitt - Sure.

Stephen Kitt

I would recommend making it only about the nature of the package relationships, not about the rpm command

Otherwise it’s unclear what you’re really asking about.

Faheem Mitha

@StephenKitt Unless it's a dupe of a question already in there.

Which seems likely. It's such a basic question.

Stephen Kitt

@FaheemMitha I tried to find one but haven’t so far.

Faheem Mitha

4:42 PM

@StephenKitt Oh, really? Huh.

Motivated

@StephenKitt - The reason i posted the example of the rpm command is because it helps working with an example.

@StephenKitt - Do you mean to change the title of the question to package relationships between recommends, suggests, etc?

@StephenKitt - By the way, i have no idea what virtual packages are. :-)

Stephen Kitt

@Motivated well in this case it ends up making it unclear whether you’re asking “when should I use rpm --blah?” or “what does ‘enhances’ mean?”

@Motivated yes

If you change the title then at least it’s aligned with the questions in your bullet points at the end.

@Motivated I imagined you wouldn’t ;-)

Motivated

@StephenKitt - Sure. I'll give it a go.

terdon

@JeffSchaller I'd have deleted it too. The advice about "honest attempt to answer" is good, but it doesn't really apply when the person answering completely (and clearly) misunderstood the question. In that case, what is posted is an attempt to answer a different question and, as such, not an attempt to answer this one.

Stephen Kitt

(@Motivated, terdon is talking about something else above, not your question.)

Motivated

4:45 PM

@StephenKitt - Thanks for the clarification. I was just going to question that. By the way, i have undeleted the question and updated the title.

@StephenKitt - Fingers crossed.

Faheem Mitha

@Motivated Generally try to keep your question clear and simple. Unless your rep is very high, in which case people will probably cut you some slack.

Motivated

@FaheemMitha - Sure. I would hope that people would cut beginners some slack too.

Faheem Mitha

@Motivated Well, in practice they don't.

It's just another example of what's sometimes called the Matthew effect.

Motivated

@FaheemMitha - That isn't helpful especially if someone has put in some effort to try and understand. It doesn't bode well in the learning process and the individual either hates the topic of learning or simply gives up with the notion that it's just too hard.

@FaheemMitha - No idea what the Matthew effect is if it's an inside reference.

Faheem Mitha

@Motivated Lots of things in the world aren't helpful. I'm not saying it's like that everywhere. I think this site is relatively civilized. SO, for example, is quite unfriendly, these days.

Matthew effect

The Matthew effect, Matthew principle, or Matthew effect of accumulated advantage can be observed in many aspects of life and fields of activity. It is sometimes summarized by the adage "the rich get richer and the poor get poorer." The concept is applicable to matters of fame or status, but may also be applied literally to cumulative advantage of economic capital. The term was coined by sociologist Robert K. Merton in 1968 and takes its name from the Parable of the talents or minas in the biblical Gospel of Matthew. Merton credited his collaborator and wife, sociologist Harriet Zuckerman, as...

Motivated

4:51 PM

@FaheemMitha - Appreciate that but it doesn't suggest i shouldn't attempt to try and ask so here i am :-)

Faheem Mitha

@Motivated Bottom line. People here don't bite. Just be polite, professional, and constructive, and willing to learn, and you'll be fine.

Motivated

@FaheemMitha - Thanks. That's helpful.

@StephenKitt, @FaheemMitha - If you are willing to help answer the question, that would be awesome.

Faheem Mitha

@Motivated I'm not a Red Hat user.

I assume your question is Red Hat specific.

Motivated

@FaheemMitha - No, it's not since i don't use Red Hat either. Since package managers such as zypper are primarily built on rpm, it helps me understand the use of the commands in both scenarios.

@FaheemMitha - I would have thought that rpm was widely used across most of the major distributions regardless since my historical understanding is that it is the grandfather of package managers.

Faheem Mitha

@Motivated Well, Red Hat, including derivatives. I was speaking loosely.

@Motivated There are a number of different package management systems. And "most" isn't well defined. Debian has its own system. And there are other distributions which also have their own. Arch, Gentoo, etc.

terdon

5:06 PM

@Motivated I won't post an answer since I haven't used an rpm-based system in many years, and I'm hoping someone with better knowledge of the details will answer. However, the main answer boils down to "the words mean what they mean in every day language".

So, if packageA recommends packageB, that means it's a good idea to install packageB when installing packageA but you can survive without it. Requires means packageA will not work without packageB and suggests that packageA works fine without packageB but adding packageB makes it even better. But not so much better as to be worth recommending so it's only a suggestion.

As for why it would recommend libpulse0 (and not pulseaudio generally, that's a specific package) when it is already installed, that's just because the package dependencies have nothing to do with whether a package is installed. rpm -q --recommends foo will always return the list of packages recommended by foo, irrespective of whether they happen to be installed or not.

Basically what Stephen just explained more clearly in his answer.

Arjun

Hydrogen:
1. It's is a Gas
2. It has many uses (I know all of them; googled it)
3. its is colorless

4. My Question: Is Hydrogen Synthetic or natural
What I know so far: Hydrogen is not synthetic it's is very very rare in earth
but After so much of study people found out how to make Hydrogen from others
gasses and oils

Am I missing anything? Please suggestions

Stephen Kitt

@Arjun I would suggest asking on a chemistry-related site

terdon

@Arjun Are you looking for Chemistry?

But Hydrogen is far from rare! It is the most abundant element in the universe.

You have entire planets made of the stuff.

And it can be synthetic and it can be natural. It's pretty natural in Jupiter, for example.

Stephen Kitt

5:22 PM

@terdon and stars ;-)

terdon

@StephenKitt And pretty much everything, yeah. Hell, even comets are full of hydrogen (albeit bound to Oxygen as water).

Stephen Kitt

@terdon as are we, in the same vein

terdon

indeed

Stephen Kitt

(well I pretend to be, I’m really made of silicon but hey)

terdon

Hydrogen is as far from "rare" as it is possible to get.

@StephenKitt I try not to hold it against you.

Stephen Kitt

5:24 PM

@terdon I will remember that

and a Stack Exchange bot would probably get a short name which would make people think of something rather different

github.com/linuxthor/uul is rather nifty

Faheem Mitha

@Arjun AFAIK Hydrogen can't be synthetic in the usual sense, because it doesn't need to be synthesized. It's the most basic building block, from a chemical standpoint, at least.

Well, there are isotopes, I suppose. But I'm not sure if your question includes those.

derobert

@StephenKitt What about all the epoxy in the boards? That has plenty of hydrogen.

Faheem Mitha

Isotopes of hydrogen

Hydrogen (1H) has three naturally occurring isotopes, sometimes denoted 1H, 2H, and 3H. The first two of these are stable, while 3H has a half-life of 12.32 years. All heavier isotopes are synthetic and have a half-life less than one zeptosecond (10−21 second). Of these, 5H is the most stable, and 7H is the least.Hydrogen is the only element whose isotopes have different names that are in common use today. The 2H (or hydrogen-2) isotope is usually called deuterium, while the 3H (or hydrogen-3) isotope is usually called tritium. The symbols D and T are sometimes used for deuterium and tritium. The...

For example, deuterium can be synthesized.

terdon

@derobert Silicon-based will have as much hydrogen as carbon-based. Being a silicon-based life form might make you poorer in carbon but no reason to assume you would be any poorer in hydrogen.

@FaheemMitha So can hydrogen in a sense. If you take synthesize to mean produce. Electrolyze water, for instance.

Faheem Mitha

@terdon Yes, I suppose the word "synthesize" is not so precise.

derobert

5:33 PM

@terdon Not sure what else has much hydrogen other than the epoxy. The glass doesn't. The ICs don't (well, except again for when they're encased in epoxy)...

Maybe electrolytic capacitors? Would have to look that up.

Seems they do. At least for the non-solid electrolyte ones.

Motivated

@terdon - Thanks. That makes a bit clearer. So what's the difference between a suggestion and a recommendation to make the distinction? It's interesting since it doesn't refer to installed packages since this would help in making a decision as to whether a recommendation or a suggestion should be taken on-board.

Arjun

@terdon

Thanks, you gave some clarification to what I know so far

@FaheemMitha
I don't know the Isotopes
but I'll definitely have a look at it

terdon

@derobert I'm thinking of long silica chains of the type you would need in a silicon based life form, not necessarily what actually exists in computers.

Stephen Kitt

@Motivated see the explanation in my answer

terdon

@Motivated I don't know how they set the thresholds, that's the sort of detail I lackfor which I didn't want to post an answer :)

derobert

5:47 PM

@terdon but, is StephenKitt hinting he's a silicon-based life form or a robot?

Stephen Kitt

@derobert just an IC

terdon

Eeeek! An internal committee? NOOOOOOOOooooooooooooo

Stephen Kitt

@terdon mwhahaha you will be assimilated

derobert

@StephenKitt I think that brings new meaning to SoC.

Stephen Kitt

@derobert heh, or PoC, person on a chip

I guess it could be “sentient being on a chip”

derobert

5:49 PM

Or just Stephen on a Chip.

2

Stephen Kitt

@derobert oh yes, of course, nice one!

terdon

And now he sounds edible.

derobert

With salsa?

Faheem Mitha

@derobert The dance or the dip?

derobert

@FaheemMitha Now that's a weird image, trying to eat ICs while dancing the salsa.

Faheem Mitha

6:02 PM

@derobert You're welcome.

Rui F Ribeiro

@derobert we eat "salsa" here ....

(parsley)

derobert

So, about ~45m until Brexit vote...

Faheem Mitha

6:21 PM

@derobert What Brexit vote?

Never mind, I'll read about it.

Arjun

Guys I've got a dumb question
If H is called Hydrogen
why H2 is also called Hydrogen (I think it should be called "Hydrogen Gas")

Jeff Schaller

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen calls it a molecule or diatomic gas: "Under ordinary conditions on Earth, elemental hydrogen exists as the diatomic gas, H2"

Kusalananda

@Arjun See e.g. pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/Hydrogen You may want to ask on a chemistry-related site if there still are question around this.

Jeff Schaller

see also: chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/info/3229/the-periodic-table

Arjun

@JeffSchaller , @Kusalananda
thanks for the reference links.

derobert

6:42 PM

@FaheemMitha bbc.com/news/live/46874049

(It appears to watch it there, you probably need a VPN into the UK... Which I'm not bothering to set up here at work...)

Faheem Mitha

@derobert Thank you.

@derobert I can read the web page. I haven't tried playing any of the videos.

derobert

Yeah, the text works anywhere. Video tells me it can't be played from my location, which I assume means I'd need to set up the UK VPN.

Faheem Mitha

@derobert Sounds like it.

derobert

OTOH, I do have a live stream of the snow melting at my house. Which can only be watched from here :-D

The little bit sticking to the tree is about to fall! By about, I mean probably another hour or so...

Eventually I plan to take the raw video (1.6GB and counting) and speed it up. That should be more interesting.

Faheem Mitha

@derobert Are you following the Brexit thing?

derobert

6:50 PM

A bit. I haven't followed all the really detailed stuff (which I suspect only interests folks inside the UK), mainly the bigger issue of whether they're going to leave the EU and with or without a deal

What I gather is if this vote passes, then it's done, they're leaving with the deal Ms. May negotiated. But it seems this vote is expected to fail, and then we find out what happens.

Faheem Mitha

Would I be correct in thinking that it's unusual for a site to limit password length to between 8 to 10 characers?

derobert

Unusual? Not sure about that, especially a few years back. Stupid? Definitely.

Faheem Mitha

@derobert It seems there is much conflict about leaving. It seems the referendum was a simple majority. I wonder who decided that.

derobert

@FaheemMitha Politicians who thought it didn't have a chance of passing so didn't worry about it.

Faheem Mitha

@derobert It's an Indian site. I wasn't expecting it, hence had a longer password. And I didn't really register this length rule till just now.

And the site made things more interesting by accepting my invalid password, so I didn't realise there was a problem.

@derobert Well, it's all very unfortunate. At least if you happen to be British.

I doubt leaving the EU will end well for the UK.

I'm not sure what the implications for everyone else.

Reporting bugs in India is always extra fun, because the people you are reporting the bugs to often don't understand what you are talking about, and respond with gibberish. Perhaps they are just trying to get through the day. Consider that India has nuclear missiles, and hope the people running them have a better idea what they are doing...

derobert

6:56 PM

I suspect if this is voted down, the likely outcomes are delaying the withdrawal date and possibly holding a new referendum. Possibly new general elections too.

Faheem Mitha

@derobert I suspect lots of people hope Brexit can be undone.

derobert

A majority of the UK's citizens, according to the most recent polling I've seen. (Not really undone, as it hasn't happened yet — stopped)

And yeah, it can be, just takes a vote in Parliament, I believe the EU has already decided the UK can unilaterally withdraw its withdrawal. But apparently the politics of that is... complicated.

Faheem Mitha

@derobert Yes, I meant stopped.

Does that mean that some of the people who voted to Leave have had second thoughts?

Even Cameron was in favor of staying, wasn't he?

derobert

@FaheemMitha Probably. Which isn't surprising, it's been a bit and now everyone knows what the exit deal is. Or at least, the one May managed to negotiate.

Faheem Mitha

@derobert "It's a bit"?

derobert

7:06 PM

sorry, it's been a bit. Left out a word.

Faheem Mitha

@derobert You mean, they woke up and realised that an exit from the EU would actually mean, after they saw the details of the actual proposed deal?

Which I don't know anything about. But it seems unpopular.

derobert

Well, I personally think the leave folks live in a fantasy world, with what they thought they'd get, but...

Faheem Mitha

@derobert I don't really understood the issues that well, but it's seems clear the UK is better off in the EU.

Though one hears really mixed things about the EU. One point of view that I heard recently is that Germany uses it to bully everyone.

But that can't be the whole truth, otherwise everyone would leave.

derobert

7:52 PM

"Playing the numbers game is dangerous - one seasoned politician who's been tracking every single move guessed at 90 against the deal this afternoon.

Other wilder claims of up to 200 against are doing the rounds too." https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46882243 .... oops. Guess those weren't so wild after all..

Faheem Mitha

8:03 PM

432 votes to 202 against? Ouch.

That means a lot of her own party voted against her.

derobert

@FaheemMitha Yep. No one likes that Brexit deal.

Faheem Mitha

8:34 PM

This is one confusingly written blog entry - qz.com/india/1478616/…

Well, confusingly as well as poorly written.

If he thinks India sucks, he could just say so.

derobert