/dev/chat

@Fabby and Schengen doesn’t really change that much as far as laptops are concerned; you still need to get them out every time you go through airport security

Fabby

@StephenKitt Not when you drive around...

But yeah: Airport security is a bitch because they're all different. Some even make you boot them.

Faheem Mitha

@StephenKitt Airport security within schengen presumably no longer includes customs. Just checking for undesirable stuff in luggage?

Are they as bad as the US?

Fabby

1:42 PM

I remember in the US when my battery was dead, so it couldn't boot and I showed them a European plug or an airplane plug and told them the converter was in my checked luggage.

That threw them off.

@FaheemMitha Security people are nazis in most of the workd.

Faheem Mitha

@Fabby How lovely.

Fabby

You know how certain professions attract certain personality types???

2

Stephen Kitt

@FaheemMitha no, you can still be subject to spot checks, anywhere within ~20km of a border (and airports count as borders) IIRC

@FaheemMitha but airport security in Europe isn't as bad as the TSA, no

Faheem Mitha

@StephenKitt What kind of spot checks?

Stephen Kitt

@FaheemMitha customs spot checks

in fact the border definition has to be more generous than that, or perhaps it doesn’t even apply any more, because I’ve seen customs officers in action on motorways

Fabby

1:51 PM

@FaheemMitha If within 20Km from the border in France coming from Belgium carrying tons of beer, you'd better have a good explanation that you don't intend to sell it.

Faheem Mitha

@StephenKitt The last time I was in the US, the TSA was fairly horrible.

@StephenKitt Oh, I didn't know that.

So customs still exists between Schengen countries?

Fabby

@StephenKitt Wear a suit and tie, be cleanly shaven, smile and speak clear English...

Faheem Mitha

@Fabby I don't understand the meaning of this chart.

Fabby

(and be patient)

@FaheemMitha Are you one of those professions?

Faheem Mitha

@Fabby I'm not sure. I mean, I've written code before...

Stephen Kitt

1:55 PM

@FaheemMitha no, you can transport goods within the EU (not Schengen) without needing to worry about customs

but customs will check the provenance of goods anywhere within the EU

Faheem Mitha

Oh, does SEEN BY mean the image that those people have of those professions?

Fabby

@FaheemMitha Like Stephen said: just spot checks.

Faheem Mitha

@StephenKitt Oh, Schengen is larger than the EU?

Fabby

@FaheemMitha Ah! You got it now!

@FaheemMitha Smaller

Stephen Kitt

@Fabby yeah I’ve never had a problem with airport security, just seen other people have problems

Faheem Mitha

1:56 PM

@Fabby Is that a correct interpretation then?

Fabby

@FaheemMitha Look it up on Wikipedia

@FaheemMitha Yup.

Faheem Mitha

@Fabby Ok.

Fabby

:-)

Stephen Kitt

@FaheemMitha different

Fabby

@StephenKitt I only ever got into trouble at Tel Aviv and at Heathrow...

Stephen Kitt

1:57 PM

it doesn’t include all EU countries, and includes some non-EU countries

Faheem Mitha

@StephenKitt Ah

Stephen Kitt

Schengen Area

The Schengen Area ( , ) is an area comprising 26 European states that have officially abolished passport and all other types of border control at their mutual borders. The area mostly functions as a single jurisdiction for international travel purposes, with a common visa policy. The area is named after the Schengen Agreement. States in the Schengen Area have strengthened border controls with non-Schengen countries. Twenty-two of the twenty-eight European Union (EU) member states participate in the Schengen Area. Of the six EU members that are not part of the Schengen Area, four – Bulgaria, Croatia...

Fabby

Tel Aviv was just a random deep check, but I got away by saying I was told to just have my laptop checked because I'm IT.

Faheem Mitha

@StephenKitt Confusing.

Stephen Kitt

@FaheemMitha yeah

Fabby

1:59 PM

Heathrow I got a full anal probe for bringing home-made marzipan into the country wrapped in tin foil...

Stephen Kitt

what I find amusing is that different countries in Schengen apply it differently

for example in France you still get passport checks when flying to another Schengen country

Faheem Mitha

@Fabby I hope not literally.

Stephen Kitt

but in the Netherlands they loudly tell you to put your passport away if you have it ready

Faheem Mitha

@StephenKitt Doesn't that contradict the definition of Schengen?

Anyway, need to go for dinner. Later, folks.

Stephen Kitt

@FaheemMitha it depends on who checks the passports ;-)

Fabby

2:00 PM

@FaheemMitha :D No, held up for 45 minutes in an interview room with some police officre in plain clothes and 2 guys with a machine gun and a dog.

Stephen Kitt

(as in, French border police only check passports for travel to non-Schengen countries)

Fabby

@StephenKitt Yeah... It helps being able to tell them: "You're nice cops, ours are nazis!"

That always gets a laugh...

Faheem Mitha

@Fabby Sounds like fun.

Fabby

@FaheemMitha So I'll skip to the moral of the story: Don't bring home-made Marzipan wrapped in tin foil into the UK because it looks like plastic explosives to both scanners and explosives dogs

Faheem Mitha

@StephenKitt I'm confused. French border police are different from whoever checks at airports?

Fabby

2:03 PM

@FaheemMitha the border is inside the airport.

Faheem Mitha

@Fabby Wow. So they were checking your marzipan for explosives?

Stephen Kitt

@FaheemMitha you typically go through (at most) four checks: check-in, airport security, border police, and boarding

in France, you skip border police when exiting the country, and when entering from a Schengen country

all three other steps involve id of some sort

in other countries, the other three steps don’t involve id checks

e.g. in Germany or the Netherlands, you can board a plane without showing id, just your boarding pass

if you’re travelling to another Schengen country

Fabby

2:15 PM

@FaheemMitha They thought the marzipan where plastic explosives!

Faheem Mitha

3:19 PM

@StephenKitt That sounds relatively complex. So, not exactly open borders, then.

@Fabby They have sniffer dogs at airports, don't they?

For explosives as well as drugs?

Stephen Kitt

@FaheemMitha you don’t see as many of them in Europe as you do in the US

explosives are usually checked for with swabs

and drugs only in the x-ray machines

Faheem Mitha

@StephenKitt I remember they swabbed my laptop on at least one occasion.

I'm not sure what they were looking for.

Fabby

@FaheemMitha They used to and the dog was a Belgian Maninois and it reacted to the Marzipan.

Faheem Mitha

@Fabby Maybe he was hungry.

Fabby

So here comes the full story:
This was about 15 years ago and when flying from Brussels into Heathrow, we were scanned again.
The only piece of luggage I carried was my laptop bag with a Hub, cables, and a bunch of other small IT-related equipment, a pair of socks, 1 piece of underwear and 1kg of home-made marrzipan wrapped in tin foil.

By the time I got through the magnetometer, my bad disappeared and when asked I was pinted towards two policemen with a dog and armed with machineguns.

Faheem Mitha

3:27 PM

@Fabby Sounds scary.

Fabby

I was led away to an interview room with another x-Ray machine and was asked to descrive the contents of my bag and if I was the only one packing it, if I'd left it alone, ...

so I gave them an intventory of my bag:

Faheem Mitha

Lots of places don't like you bringing food in, but they don't usually assume it's dangerous.

Fabby

Laptop, power cables, hub, Ethernet cable, cross-over Ethernet cable, leatherman, ...

so they asked me to take all these items out and describe their function.

(they were particularly confused by the difference between an Ethernet cable and a Cross-cable)

Faheem Mitha

@Fabby That sounds pretty paranoid. Did they think they were bomb components, or what?

One would think they'd be familiar with computer cables and so forth.

Fabby

then they asked if enything else was in the bag, I said some documents and socks

Faheem Mitha

3:30 PM

I mean, people presumably travel with them.

Fabby

@FaheemMitha Probaly 20 years ago: no they were not.

Faheem Mitha

@Fabby So you forgot about the marzipan?

Fabby

Yup...

Faheem Mitha

@Fabby Oh?

Fabby

So they scanned the bag again and asked what else was in there.

Pens? Business cards?

Faheem Mitha

3:31 PM

@Fabby That must have been fun for you.

BTW, who made the marzipan?

Fabby

Pens were removed and as they were all identical, fully in metal and emblazened with the company logo and still hooked up to one another they might have looked like large caliber bullets, so I asked them if that was the problem...

they ignored my questions and asked me more: why was I coming to the UK, when was I going to return, ...

and the only thing going through my mind was: "Shit, someone hid drugs in my bag!"

Faheem Mitha

@Fabby It's unfortunate you forgot about the marzipan...

Fabby

so eventuially the home-made (by me, myself and I) Marzipan came out and they wanted to know why I wrapped it in Aliminium foil, ...

after 10 minutes of that I asked:

Is that what the dog reacted to?

Faheem Mitha

@Fabby Isn't that a reasonable thing to do?

Fabby

Phew, I thought someone hid drugs in my bag, so I opened up the tin foil, broke off a piece and threw it to to dog!

Faheem Mitha

3:35 PM

@Fabby Lunch time for the dog?

Fabby

The dog picked it out of the air ans swallowed it and sat there its tail wagging, when one of the armed officers said:

He's not supposed to do that!

me: that's a Belgian Malinois, I'm Belgian, I made the marzipan myself and he wanted some...

Stephen Kitt

@Fabby oh my, petting or feeding police dogs is a definite no-no

Fabby

Total utter silence and the three police officers looking at one another sheepishlyh and me going: Is that an explosives dog???

Nodding going on...

me: 'Oh, now I understand: that must've come up as plastic explosives on the scanner!"

(facepalm! Me and my big mouth!)

"What do you know about plastic explosives? la di ya di yah..."

Me: I'm a chemist by education and an ex-officer in the Belgian army... What do you expect???

Faheem Mitha

@Fabby Are explosives dogs not supposed to react to food, then?

@Fabby I didn't know you had a military background.

Fabby

lots of apologies, no no one else wanted to taste any, the dog wasn't allowed any any more and story finished except:

Faheem Mitha

3:40 PM

Was that that mandatory military requirement thing?

Fabby

@FaheemMitha Not from total strangers, no...

@FaheemMitha yup

Faheem Mitha

@Fabby I mean, if they do, then... false positives.

Fabby

My colleague who picked me up at Heathrow was a bit pissed off as I called him when I left the plane.

Faheem Mitha

Not really good for whoever is on the receiving end.

Fabby

and it took 45 minutes longer to exit the airport than planned

and me going:

I'm never, ever bringing you any of my home-made marzipan ever again!

:D :D :D :D

@StephenKitt Well: they're not supposed to accept food and they should allow themselves to be petted because of ... children.

Faheem Mitha

3:43 PM

Well, all's well that ends well. Did the dog seem to like your marzipan?

Fabby

/shrug

@FaheemMitha He swallowed it whole and was wagging its tail and looking at me like there was coming more,

so I suppose that's a Yes

Faheem Mitha

@Fabby So that's a yes, then.

Is your marzipan popular?

I forgot what it was, so just looked it up. A sugary treat.

Fabby

@FaheemMitha I haven't made any since that day...

Faheem Mitha

@Fabby That's a shame. Why not?

Fabby

I just buy it locally and consume it myself and never give anyone any any more

:D :D :D

Faheem Mitha

3:46 PM

Think of all those explosives dogs out there missing out.

Fabby

:D

:P

Faheem Mitha

There is also something called Turkish Delight. Popularized (at least in fiction), by "The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe".

BTW, can you buy nice nougat in Europe these days.

Fabby

There is an XKCD cartoon about that.

@FaheemMitha France has the best.

Faheem Mitha

I once had some amazing nougat from some company called Callard and Bowser. Or something like that.

Though I think they don't make it any more.

@Fabby Any particular brand?

@Fabby About what?

Fabby

@FaheemMitha turkish delight.

Faheem Mitha

3:50 PM

Oh, this one?

I take it Narnia doesn't have Cinnabons? Because if you can magic up a plate of those, I'll betray whoever.

Fabby

@FaheemMitha yup!

Faheem Mitha

Wow, that's a big box.

Stephen Kitt

@FaheemMitha the best nougat I know of is made locally near Montélimar and only sold there

2

Faheem Mitha

This stuff - it was amazing.

flickr.com/photos/36844288@N00/40751581801

@StephenKitt Interesting. Do they have a web site?

Stephen Kitt

@FaheemMitha I don’t actually remember the name

Faheem Mitha

3:54 PM

Of course, the White Witch's Turkish Delight was probably not regular Turkish Delight.

Stephen Kitt

I’ve got some other nougat which is pretty good, let’s see...

Faheem Mitha

It was presumably Enchanted Turkish Delight. Not sold in shops.

Fabby

@StephenKitt Starred because absolute truth!

Stephen Kitt

@Fabby like lots of food unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on your point of view), you need to travel a lot to sample the best

or perhaps another way of looking at things is that global knowledge of everything, and availability of lots of things, has spoiled us

Fabby

Hungarian Paprika, Veronese Mountain sausages, Greek Oregano, Javan nutmeg, Indonesian Cigarettes...

Faheem Mitha

3:57 PM

@StephenKitt You globetrotters get to have it all.

Fabby

Belgian Chocolate can be bought globally nowadays as well as Belgian beer, so they're off the list.

Faheem Mitha

Apparently some British company has resurrected the Callard and Bowser nougat.

championreeves.com/product/dessert-nougat-italian-rose-cherries/…

Though it certainly isn't cheap.

Stephen Kitt

@FaheemMitha this is the nougat I have just now: nougaterie-fumades.com

Fabby

Oh la laah!

@StephenKitt Where do you live? I would have guessed the UK...

Faheem Mitha

@StephenKitt Thanks.

Stephen Kitt

4:00 PM

@Fabby in the Lyon banlieue

Fabby

(no need to respond if too private)

Ah bon!

Lots of great local French products! (and an easy way of getting other local French products...

Stephen Kitt

@Fabby yes!

and easy access to Bourgogne, Ardèche etc.

Fabby

Uhuh... Bourgogne and Veronese are the only wines I like.

Unfortunately for me, they have to be 6-7 years old at least.

So I drink about 1 bottle a year now until the cache has grown a bit...

Stephen Kitt

@Fabby heh, so starting to get expensive unless you store them yourself

Fabby

I used to have anough stash to allow me to have 1 bottle a month about 7 years ago...

Yup...

Mais vous n'êtes pas Français d'origine?

Ou utilisez-vous un nom de plume ici?

Stephen Kitt

4:04 PM

@Fabby non, britannique ;-)

Fabby

:D So first guess was not too far off!

Faheem Mitha

@StephenKitt I thought you consider yourself Scottish.

Or maybe you just grew up there?

Fabby

@FaheemMitha Still Brittany...

Stephen Kitt

@FaheemMitha British, but if I have to choose I feel more Scottish than English

Fabby

One of the areas I still have to visit!

Faheem Mitha

4:05 PM

@StephenKitt A lot of Scots seem to consider Scotland a separate country.

Fabby

AFK...

Stephen Kitt

@FaheemMitha nearly 50% the last time they were asked (at least, sufficiently to actually want independence)

Faheem Mitha

@Fabby Brittany? Isn't that France?

Fabby

@FaheemMitha Yeah... I meant Britania. (The Roman name, but as Stephen's Scottish, I was wrong even with that)

Faheem Mitha

4:21 PM

@Fabby You mean Britannia (with those n's)?

Fabby

4:36 PM

@FaheemMitha :D ;-) :D

Yes, yes, I know: I'm an idiot

Faheem Mitha

@Fabby There was no such implication intended.

Fabby

I know: that's why I posted :D ;-) :D before the picture...

I also have this one:

Oops!

:-) :-) :-)

Faheem Mitha

@Fabby You just really like emoticons.

Though you could vary them a bit more. I hear there are entire zoos of them out there.

Fabby

7:40 PM

]:(:)

Cow...

Transcript for