Good Day !! (well at least it's day here)

Good day too

Hi folks.

Hi, @Fabby I read your comments and want to ask you something. I thought I can get all grub commands from this page gnu.org/software/grub/manual/grub/grub.html, but I Didn't even see linuxefi and initrdefi commands. I just see version without efi.Could you explain that to me a little about the xxx-efi command you used in this answer? unix.stackexchange.com/questions/469426/…

Reading first...

@神秘德里克 OK, I read here that linuxefi should be used on efi machines

and as I was careful and planned the procurement of my new laptop well and didn't know anything about UEFI before I started,

@神秘德里克 I never even tried the old modules

so why I asked you here was:

1. Do you have an UEFI machien as well

I seem to recall using UEFI is a bit of a business. And right now, I'm not even clear what the advantages are. No doubt I've forgotten.

2. If yes, are you using the old modules? (non-uefi) and does it work???

@FaheemMitha Larger boot sectors than 512 bytes and hardware can be turned off at the UEFI level and massive roll-outs become easier.

(you can copy UEFI settings from one machine to the other easily)

@Fabby Hmm. Those don't sound compelling, but I must have had some reason for switching to UEFI. I seem to recall it was quite a lot of effort. Or maybe I just wanted to play with it. I forget.

@Fabby I don't have such machine, so I only use non efi commands. I didn't use virtualbox or qemu either, maybe I can test uefi using those. Personal I don't like UEFI because of … the uefi partition.

Oh, OK, so you just wanted some more clarification is all.

No worries: like I said, UEFI has some disadvantages if you only have to roll out a single machine, but some big advantages if you need to roll out 10, 100, 1000, ...

It's kind strange that redhat doc did even mention grub2 on BIOS. Which CAN boot linux. Maybe that's some magic redhat patch or some magic hidden features from upstream?

The xxx- efi commands

No as I'm running on Ubuntu.

Hmm, actually, I think one thing that appealed to me is that the boot area is now something that you can actually look at, instead of hidden at the beginning of the drive.

It's just an undocumented feature.

@神秘德里克 File a bug at the GRUB manual maintainers!

So you can actually see what is going on, at least in theory. And a Windows installation overwriting the boot sector should not be an issue.

Does that make sense? My memory is still fuzzy.

@FaheemMitha True, but Windows can also overwrite NVRAM (though I haven't seen that happening yet)

I mean, I haven't installed Windows on my machines, ever. But it's always a possibility. And of course, there are other operating systems.

@Fabby NVRAM? Remind me what that is.

AFAIR, the UEFI protocol provides a special separate partition which handles the booting. Of course your BIOS firmware needs to be aware of that partition, so it has some logic for that, which I now forget. Maybe you register it with the BIOS, but what happens if you change drives? I suppose it just stops working.

I roughly guess, just pure guess, linux command can be used to load the kernel, but using some very unique protocol or magic number sort of things in kernel binary. While linuxefi is using the EFI-STUB in the kernel. Because I heard that kernel can be directly boot by UEFI

I mean , the linux command, it's so unique, can it even be used for laoding bsd or Mach or other kernel?

Only Class 0 and 3 exist nowadays.

The rest is for historical purposes.

NVRAM is to store the UEFI parameters just like EEPROM did that for BIOS.

I only use Ubuntu and CentOS so cannot speak about anything else, but the E in UEFI = "Extensible" so even if it doesn't exist, you can write a loader for it...

and rEFInd is pretty complete, so maybe that would have something.!

Needed for a comment

What? Foreign teacher do that punishment for students too?

I thought only my middle school teacher make us do that. OK, senior teachers too, when somebody keep forgetting the H2O (definitely not me)

@神秘德里克 Huh? I left a comment below an answer that we're not a script writing service here...

(also: it looked like a homework question)

;-) :-)

I was just talking about repeatly writing a sentence

@神秘德里克 :D :D :D

@Fabby It's a typical punishment for students when I was… a pupil, a middle school student. Also it's a traditional teaching method to let students remember things like poems or meaning of ancient Chinese words

So I thought foreign school don't do that.

Lemme think. I never had to write stuff like that on a blackboard, but I did in a notebook.

(primary school)

No, it's part of homework, every single ancient article or poem we learned, we do that. Also as punishment for students keep forgetting something important

Oh, I actually think it's kind of useful, for some basic elements, like periodic table, English words, new Chinese Characters

I don't know any Chinese charactrs, so I cannot comment on that.

@Fabby Those mixed options aren't worth the effort.

@FaheemMitha They used to be when UEFI was new and no UEFI OSes existed (Class 1)

that's the "compatibility mode" nowadays.

Wow I didn't see that coming

how do you solve problem with Kali ? Install Ubuntu :D

This is a rare instance of U&L (self) answering question about de K-word ....

@Archemar Maybe because it's described in detail, and show some effort

I would say it's MicrosoftZ's fault

@神秘德里克 how's that ?

Windows will secretly delete or disable your entry

Maybe delete bootmgr entry in UEFI settings and use grub for everything is a better idea

Although grub still need to chainload

Never had the issue in the past. but nowadays I try to avoid every dual boot installation possible and use VM instead, way less trouble

same here, dual boot is a call for trouble.

Still think about Windows, it might behave different on different firmware, like real laptop vs virtualbox UEFI

I have less and less trouble with windows and more and more with Linux... I happen to find linux desktop experience less stable than 6 years ago. The transition to gnome-shell (which I love and hate) and systemd is IMHO part of the problem

Hey, Why UEFI is Good? I don't know too much, but have the gut feeling that coreboot ‾‾ the idea of embedding a whole powerful grub2 into your firmware ‾‾ is better. I never have to think about Where do I install grub because my disk doesn't have partition table (I personally don't like the partition table, I like btrfs or LVM style volume manager) I got grub resue please save me problem

@Kiwy Starred! (and upvoted both Q and A)

@神秘德里克 Or in the case of Acer: only Windows can write into the NVRAM. So you have to drop in an EFI shell and add Linux manually.

cc @Kiwy ---^

@Fabby what do you mean ?

@Archemar @Kiwy I run a dual boot but have used Windows in the last month:

1. to perform system updates about twice

and how can you upvote this answer it's probably one of the worst I 've ever seen

2. Change my keyboard backlights once

to have a GoTo Meeting once

@Kiwy I mean that efibootmgr exits with 0 but the NVRAM is not updated.

so Linux thinks Everything is hunky-dory, until you reboot and then:

Windows Boot Manager!

(which is a certified piece of crap! not very friendly to other OSes and has a very obscure CLI )

this K-word question, receive RTFM as an answer : unix.stackexchange.com/questions/469803/… !

We all know RTFM means:

Read The Fine Manual!

@Archemar I try not to be rude toward new comers, but sometime they deserve it

Response:

Can someone star one of those 3?

done

@Archemar Thank you!!!

@Kiwy Ah, lemme re-read.

You said:

I said:

so I wanted tyou to know that I've never had any Dual Boot UEFI problems except:

@Fabby OK, I didn't understand. I never tried EFI anything except windows.

Also: VMs are a waste of RAM: I like my OS the full metal...

I mean: it's OK for consolidation, but I only have one machine.

Yeah, that happens a lot: I take too many things for granted when I explain things

I have like 6GB or ram on my 6 years old laptop and I workded with Windows VM a lot without any impact on my workload

Sorry!

there's nothing to apologize for right here :D

I have a 16G machine now and run Linux all the time and for the few times I need Windows, I don't mind rebooting...

@Kiwy Yeah well: I'm confused and confusing all the time.

(one of my disadvantages)

New question, what would do when you got 128GB memory, some people say they will keep lots of VM

It's just some time you can't run real os on your computer, it cause trouble, like my i7 8GB machine

@Fabby if I refer to your picture, it seems that you're a dog, so I don't mind if a dog happen to be confusing from time to time as long as he can have a pretty normal conversation typing on its keyboard with its nice paws !

:D

:D

look again and see what's in-between its paws

ho you do not have nice paws, but you're a hell of a drawer for a dog

:D :D :D

A dog drawing a man

What are you doinf @Fabby, internet was invented so that no one would know you are a dog !

(except Three Letter Agency of course)

@fabby Or maybe I'm too confuse to understand your underlying explanation

🤣🦍🐶

@Kiwy I think you got it: it's a drawing of a dog that drew a picture of me.

Ohhh! Now every thing make much more sense I guess...

Wait, something wrong with my username, guys, help!

I can't read/write/understand/see ideograms

Where's my 克？

I can see it at the end of your nickname

same here on right side, left from icons

How many characters do you see of my username? My Android chrome problem?

5

Oh, after a little while, it becomes 4

My 克

5

Mysterious Derick becomes Mysterious Deri

Oh, God, its auto line warping

I see 5 of them on a "normal" laptop screen.

Something wrong with my Chrome, still not render fully correctly

I see 4 of them if I strip my firefox windows

It's auto line warping, 克 goes to the second line

And if I switch to Samsung Galaxy S9 mode on firefox I can see 5

When my head photo get smaller

chrome sucks, use firefox

@Kiwy Starred!

It had to be said at loud

@Kiwy What desktop are you using?

wired.com/story/linuxs-creator-is-sorry-but-will-he-change

LINUX'S CREATOR IS SORRY. BUT WILL HE CHANGE?

“[...] Torvalds has developed a reputation for behavior and harsh language that critics said crossed the line into emotional abuse. [...] On Sunday, he apologized for years of improper behavior. “

Bonjour

@DoritoStyle Yes, that was discussed earlier.

I, at least, thought it was rather strange.

@FaheemMitha Maybe he is a high reputation SE user coincidentally dealing with our new COC ;)

@DoritoStyle We have a COC?

@FaheemMitha lol?

Linus Torvalds isn't a member of any forum I know of, actually. He does have a blog, but it's not exactly active.

@FaheemMitha “that i know of” exactly. It would probably benefit him to keep any accounts anonymous! Cue X-Files them music

@DoritoStyle That's true, he might.

Miguel de Icaza does have an account here, though he wasn't active very long.

stackexchange.com/users/1010011010/illuminati 😱😱😱

Actually, it looks like he is still somewhat active on SO.