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3:10 AM
Turns out the system won't let you downvote them all.
 
 
12 hours later…
2:49 PM
I'm getting the following error:
 
It's called "writer's block".
 
@terdon Yeah, that one has done the rounds at work :-)
 
Of course :)
 
3:45 PM
Hey guys, I'm new to this chat and I was wondering if anyone has any experience with systemd and upstart.
 
@MoAli This room isn't super active. If you have a question, it is better to post it on the main site. And if you want to ask a question here in chat, just write it and if someone can answer they will.
 
@terdon Thanks, I'll take your advice.
 
@MoAli As @terdon said. This chat is mostly used to discuss existing questions, exchange ideas, and for passing the time. You're welcome to ask here, but if the question requires that someone does even a modest amount of research, then it's better to ask on the main site (which will also hopefully benefit others).
 
faheem@orwell:/usr/local/src/simplesshd$ git clone galexander.org/git/simplesshd.git
Cloning into 'simplesshd'...
fatal: unable to access 'http://galexander.org/git/simplesshd.git/': Failed to connect to galexander.org port 80: Network is unreachable
I wrote to the author, who said:
> Oh, I just realized why - it's because your computer does not have IPv6
routing but for some reason does not know this fact. galexander.org has
both A (IPv4) and AAAA (IPv6) addresses, and I bet your computer is
trying to use the IPv6 one.
 
"Works for me"
 
3:57 PM
I'm really not clear what this means.
Does this make any sense? Should I post a question. It's clearly not important, but having git clones failing for no reason is not ideal either.
 
I can't ping6 the host, but I can see its IPv6 address with host ....
 
Do I need some special config on my side for this to work?
 
Hmm... no? Try with 64.62.190.177 instead of the host name.
 
@Kusalananda Ok.
Yes, that works. What's the moral?
 
BTW, are you able to reach the URL with a browser?
(I can)
 
4:00 PM
@Kusalananda Yes, I can.
 
My network-fu is not strong, but it seems as if git picks up the IPv6 address rather than the IPv4 address, and, as the author said, your machine does not do IPv6 routing, so it fails.
VonC's answer.
 
@Kusalananda Presumably it's possible to get my machine to do IPv6 routing.
 
If your network provider supports it (I think).
 
> In 99% of cases, you should not be doing this. The real answer to the question is fix your IPv6 connection.
@Kusalananda Oh, joy.
 
That's beyond my knowledge tho.
 
4:05 PM
This is India, land of crazy. One can just about get a working net connection, and be grateful for that.
 
git clone -4 http://galexander.org/git/simplesshd.git/
 
@Kusalananda Yes, I saw that. Trying it now.
 
It did hang for a while when I first tried without -4, as if it was trying and timing out on the IPv6 address...
 
> error: unknown switch `4'
 
Too old Git..
 
4:08 PM
git --version
git version 2.1.4
 
I'm on git version 2.12.2
 
Hah, I wonder if it's time for my routine call to or chat to FiOS support: "do you have IPv6 yet? [answer: no]. Is there an ETA? [answer: no]"
 
@derobert Apparently we're not the only people blessed with terrible support. Actually, here they probably wouldn't even understand the question.
 
The support isn't so bad. They're generally helpful, to the extent they're allowed to be. But of course, they don't get to tell the network engineers to add IPv6.
 
@derobert What network is this again?
 
4:10 PM
FiOS
 
So, Verizon?
 
Yep.
 
Ok, not those terrible Comcast people one hears so much about.
> git --version
git version 2.11.0
Upgraded to jessie backports.
 
Yeah, they're definitely a few steps above Comcast...
 
-4 works now.
 
4:13 PM
Not many steps, but a few.
 
Hmm. I wonder where MTNL would rank in the US hierarchy.
Actually, I was favorably surprised the other day. The DSL line in my guest room gave out.
I contacted them via their online "fault booking" system. I fully expected to be ignored.
 
@FaheemMitha Yay!
 
They came out the next day and fixed it!
@Kusalananda Was that a sarcastic yay?
 
No, a heart-felt yay for someone solving a problem.
 
@Kusalananda Ah. Excuse my paranoia. It's a rough life over here, sometimes.
Plus I've been sick, which never improves ones mood.
 
4:16 PM
@FaheemMitha Here are friends.
 
@Kusalananda Yes, I know.
 
You could try without the -4 with that updated Git. Maybe it's gained some intelligence, or maybe my OpenBSD is the one that was smart?
 
Or fix gai.conf...
 
@derobert gai.conf?
@Kusalananda No, it doesn't work without the -4.
 
I used to own a vt220 (orange-on-black). I used it with a SUN Ultra Sparc. I'm terribly sad that I had to get rid of it when I moved from the UK... I didn't have the space. unix.stackexchange.com/questions/359038/…
 
4:21 PM
@FaheemMitha /etc/gai.conf
 
@FaheemMitha Ok, that's good to know actually.
 
@derobert I see it. I've no idea what to do with it.
@Kusalananda Oh? Why?
 
@derobert Is that a Linux config file?
 
@Kusalananda Yes, for glibc
@FaheemMitha this bit looks relevant:
#    For sites which prefer IPv4 connections change the last line to
#
#precedence ::ffff:0:0/96  100
 
@FaheemMitha I wasn't sure it was Git or my system that managed to pick the right address of the host, but it now appears it must have been something other than Git.
 
4:23 PM
That file controls the sorting of IP (both v4 and v6) addresses returned by getaddrinfo
e.g., by DNS lookups through glibc (at least, using the modern interface, not the legacy pre-IPv6 interface)
 
@derobert Hmm. Would that fix the problem then?
 
It should, by having git try IPv4 first
 
Might it break other stuff?
 
It shouldn't—if you don't have IPv6 connectivity, you always want to use v4 first.
 
@derobert Ok, I'll give it a try.
Do I need to restart anything?
 
4:31 PM
@FaheemMitha Should take effect for programs when they're started. So no. Not for git.
 
@derobert ok.
Does not seem to have changed anything. For:
at least.
 
Hmmm, here at least glibc is realizing I don't have v6 connectivity and not using it at all...
$ perl -MData::Dump=pp -MSocket=:addrinfo -E 'my @res = getaddrinfo "galexander.org", "http"; pp @res'
(
  "",
  {
    addr      => "\2\0\0P\@>\xBE\xB1\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0",
    canonname => undef,
    family    => 2,
    protocol  => 6,
    socktype  => 1,
  },
  {
    addr      => pack("H*","0a0000500000000026003c0100000000f03c91fffe960f0600000000"),
    canonname => undef,
    family    => 10,
    protocol  => 6,
    socktype  => 1,
  },
)
do you get the same result? That's showing the IPv4 result first
 
faheem@orwell:~$ perl -MData::Dump=pp -MSocket=:addrinfo -E 'my @res = getaddrinfo "galexander.org", "http"; pp @res'
(
  "",
  {
    addr      => "\2\0\0P\@>\xBE\xB1\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0",
    canonname => undef,
    family    => 2,
    protocol  => 6,
    socktype  => 1,
  },
  {
    addr      => "\2\0\0P\@>\xBE\xB1\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0",
    canonname => undef,
    family    => 2,
    protocol  => 17,
    socktype  => 2,
  },
  {
    addr      => pack("H*","0a0000500000000026003c0100000000f03c91fffe960f0600000000"),
 
weird, yours lists ipv4 first... odd your git isn't following that. That git clone works here...
 
What defines ipv4?
I just learned that the world saw "Absolutely Fabulous: The Movie" in 2016. I guess the news passed me by.
 
4:43 PM
@FaheemMitha errr, a bunch of RFCs? I must be misunderstanding the question
 
@derobert No, I mean in that Perl output.
 
$ perl -MData::Dump=pp -MSocket=:addrinfo -E 'my ($err, @res) = getaddrinfo "galexander.org", "http"; die $err if $err;  pp getnameinfo($_->{addr}, NI_NUMERICHOST) foreach @res'
("", "64.62.190.177", "http")
("", "2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fe96:f06", "http")

... now with improved output!
@FaheemMitha oh, the "family" field
 
@derobert ok
So 2 for ipv4 and 10 for ipv6?
 
yep
 
Wonder what they use the other digits for.
 
4:45 PM
$ perl -MSocket=:all -E 'say "inet: ", AF_INET, "   inet6: ", AF_INET6'
inet: 2   inet6: 10
 
I'm guessing Absolutely Fabulous fans are thin on the ground here.
 
@FaheemMitha ummm.. a bunch of other protocols... wonder if I can find a list quickly...
 
@derobert Don't worry about it.
 
AF_802 AF_AAL AF_APPLETALK AF_CCITT AF_CHAOS AF_CTF AF_DATAKIT
AF_DECnet AF_DLI AF_ECMA AF_GOSIP AF_HYLINK AF_IMPLINK AF_INET AF_INET6
AF_ISO AF_KEY AF_LAST AF_LAT AF_LINK AF_MAX AF_NBS AF_NIT AF_NS AF_OSI
AF_OSINET AF_PUP AF_ROUTE AF_SNA AF_UNIX AF_UNSPEC AF_USER AF_WAN
AF_X25
that's the list of them from perl's Socket.pm
@FaheemMitha /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/bits/socket.h has a list with values
/* Protocol families.  */
#define PF_UNSPEC       0       /* Unspecified.  */
#define PF_LOCAL        1       /* Local to host (pipes and file-domain).  */
#define PF_UNIX         PF_LOCAL /* POSIX name for PF_LOCAL.  */
#define PF_FILE         PF_LOCAL /* Another non-standard name for PF_LOCAL.  */
#define PF_INET         2       /* IP protocol family.  */
#define PF_AX25         3       /* Amateur Radio AX.25.  */
#define PF_IPX          4       /* Novell Internet Protocol.  */
#define PF_APPLETALK    5       /* Appletalk DDP.  */
it later defines AF_* to be the same thing as PF_* (well, maybe there is an exception to that, certainly didn't check the whole list)
 
5:08 PM
@derobert Thanks for the research. I wouldn't have known where to start.
Ok, on a non-unix topic, I purchased a Dlink DSL router which would drop the wifi connection quite reliably after 2 days. I assumed is was defective, and purchased another one, planning to send this one in for repairs.
But I called up Dlink support, and they told me to use channel 6 instead of automatic. Are they blowing smoke?
 
5:27 PM
@FaheemMitha Not knowing the technical inns and outs of wifi routers, it sounds odd that choosing another channel would (permanently) help.
I know that if a channel is congested, there may be connection problems.
 
@Kusalananda Well, I generally assume that tech support is full of crap. That's my default assumption. It's generally pretty reliable.
They probably want me to give up and forget about the defective router. Or am I being too cynical?
@Kusalananda How's it going with you? As I recall, you're taking care of a sick family member. Unless I have you confused with someone else. It wouldn't be the first time.
 
The thing with generic tech support is that the by default assume you know absolutely nothing about the thing you need support for, so they say silly things like "have you tried rebooting?" or "have you tried changing the wifi channel?".
@FaheemMitha No, that's me. Still the same. She can't scratch her own nose. It's difficult.
 
@Kusalananda Sounds awful. Sorry about that. I've got a vaguely similar situation here - my sister. She's a total basket case. Though she can scratch her nose.
 
I need a haircut and a shave. I'm turning into a wizard.
 
@Kusalananda Agreed. And getting through to someone who knows something can present formidable difficulties.
@Kusalananda One advantage of being in India is that you can find someone to babysit without paying huge quantities of money.
It isn't a big advantage on the grand scale of things, though.
 
5:35 PM
@FaheemMitha We have excellent help from the city council. Does cost money though, but is affordable. Brings her lunch boxes and can step in if I need to be away.
 
@Kusalananda Well, I guess there are advantages to being in Sweden. I doubt one would get this in the US. For example.
 
@FaheemMitha The city council employs a number of care companies, and I pay the council for the services of one of the companies local to us. That's how I think it works in any case.
 
@Kusalananda Hmm. Anyway, pretty stressful overall, I imagine.
 
Only having to care about my own food is a great relief. Yes, quite stressful. I hope you're coping.
Pictures of cute animals and funny YouTube videos help :-)
 
@Kusalananda I don't have it that bad, probably. But comparisons are difficult, because I don't know what you're going through, of course. And vice versa.
@Kusalananda Not that I've noticed.
Ok, another tangent. I think Anthony has probably gone home, but I think I talked to him about this once.
I've been sporadically trying to decide on a brand of SSD to buy.
I really need to move off my old disk drives. They've been holding up well, but they won't last forever.
The Samsung ones are popular here. I was debating the merits of EVO vs PRO. PRO is a bit more, and I'm wondering if it's worth it.
 
5:44 PM
(can't say anything about hardware, sorry)
 
@Kusalananda No problem. I don't really know anything about hardware either. Hence the question.
 
6:03 PM
@Kusalananda That's a bad thing? :-/
@FaheemMitha I'm still here, so far...
 
@derobert Oh. I thought you'd gone home.
@derobert He's probably talking about the look, not the magic.
Personally, I could do with a little magic. It would come in handy.
@derobert Do you remember talking about SSDs with me?
 
@FaheemMitha vaguely
 
It's been awhile.
 
@FaheemMitha Indeed. I wonder if polymorph works on Cacti. Been fighting the monitoring server on and off this week trying to get the IOPS down
 
@derobert I don't have any idea what that is.
 
6:08 PM
 
Oh, I see.
I don't see the relevance of magic, though.
 
@FaheemMitha Not much, other than there being not much else left to try that isn't a bunch of work...
 
@derobert It sounds like you tackle a lot of this stuff alone.
Isn't the point of a company to have other expertise you can fall back on?
I know it's a small company...
 
Yep, very small company. Technical team is three people. And I'm the only one with any sysadmin experience.
 
In academia, we'll frequently flying solo. But in academia, they don't pay properly. It's a dysfunctional environment.
Well, they don't pay the right people properly I should say.
@derobert That's a lot of pressure.
 
6:17 PM
@FaheemMitha I dunno, I can do a bit of magic... I certainlyneed it! I'm going to try getting a vintage BSD up and running on a PDP-11 (emulator).
 
@Kusalananda Ok, I take it back...
 
@Kusalananda definitely do not report to the barber until after you've finished that
 
:-)
 
@Kusalananda You could get yourself a wand. Try the Harry Potter spells.
 
Failing that, I'm up for the job of Father Christmas in December.
 
6:20 PM
@Kusalananda That sounds like a fun job. Not.
 
@FaheemMitha Staff with a knob on the end and a pointy hat seems more appropriate.
 
@derobert I'll see what I can do.
 
They do the Father Christmas thing in Sweden? I thought that was one of those wacky Anglo-American things.
@derobert Possibly. Are we going Pratchett or Tolkien?
 
@FaheemMitha Pratchett
 
6:23 PM
@FaheemMitha We do... We have the anglicised Father Christmas in red handing out presents... But it's mix in with a bit of older folk lore about gnomes (small folk living in the forest, or sometimes in the stables or houses, usually benign, sometimes to great help).
 
@Kusalananda The Anglo stuff is infectious. I blame Hollywood.
 
There's a custom to put out a bowl of porridge outside you door on christmas night for the local small folk to eat.
The word for the small folk happens to be the same word as we use for Father Chrstmas, "Tomte".
 
I thought those were called brownies.
A brownie/brounie or urisk (Lowland Scots) or brùnaidh, ùruisg, or gruagach (Scottish Gaelic) is a mythical household spirit from English and Scottish folklore. Brownies are especially popular in the North. In this region, brownies are commonly conflated with hobs. A brownie is the Scottish and Northern English counterpart of the Scandinavian tomte, the Slavic domovoi and the German Heinzelmännchen. == Tradition == In folklore, a brownie resembles the hob, similar to a hobgoblin. Thomas Keightley describes the brownie as "a personage of small stature, wrinkled visage, covered with short curly brown...
I guess that's the UK version.
 
A nisse, tomte, or tomtenisse (Sweden) (Swedish pronunciation: [ˈtɔ̀mːtɛ]), nisse ( Denmark and Norway) (Danish pronunciation: [ˈnesə] or Norwegian pronunciation: [ˈnìsːɛ], Danish plural nisser) or tonttu (Finland) is a mythological creature from Scandinavian folklore today typically associated with the winter solstice and the Christmas season. It is generally described as being no taller than 90 cm (35 in), having a long white beard, and wearing a conical or knit cap in red or some other bright color. They often have an appearance somewhat similar to that of a garden gnome (which are also called...
Santa is called "Jultomte", literally "Christmas gnome".
Makes little sense. I prefer the folklore gnome to father Christmas any day though.
 
@Kusalananda Me too. But why does it make little sense?
 
6:31 PM
Ah, the mixing of traditions give rise to oddities.
But they're only odd if you try to think about them.
... or explain them.
 
I think Mary Norton's Borrowers are latter-day descendants of brownies. Excellent books.
Not the most cheery, perhaps.
 
Yes, sounds about right.
@FaheemMitha Also, the main characters of Terry Pratchett's "Diggers", "Truckers" and "Wings" books (to tie in with that name which was mentioned a few moments ago).
 
@Kusalananda You know those books?
 
They're good. I read them in my 30s...
@FaheemMitha Ah, you mean Mary Norton's. No, but I read the synopsis.
 
@Kusalananda Ah, ok. I read them as a child, mostly. I probably didn't appreciate them properly till later.
@Kusalananda Yes, I meant Mary Norton's books.
 
6:43 PM
Sorry confused.
All clear now.
It's the beard.
All the wisdom goes into the beard. Not much use there...
 
They're good. Probably not to everyone's taste. They're very English. Technically children's books. But more adult than many adult books.
And not very happy books, overall. Lots of stuff about loneliness and alienation.
The last book might be my favorite. It's probably the only one in which nothing bad actually happens.
If you're stuck in a doctor's office or a hospital you could give them a try.
@Kusalananda I don't like beards. Used to have one. Itchy. And I looked like hell.
 
@FaheemMitha I'll agree with you there. Wouldn't know what to do with my hands if I didn't have it though.
 
@Kusalananda I don't follow.
And agree with which part?
 
@FaheemMitha Beards are itchy and I don't look good in it. It's the same for me. Also, it's a bit like for smokers and their cigarettes (I presume), having the beard to always twiddle with. Bad habit.
I look like a boy without it though.
 
@Kusalananda I used to have a beard in my early twenties. I looked like someone from one out of one of the grimmer Russian novels. I was quite thin. Something set in a Gulag, perhaps.
For some reason, I didn't realise at the time that it wasn't a good look for me.
@Kusalananda Is that bad?
 
6:58 PM
@FaheemMitha Well, I once accidentally shaved too much of it off, and had to correct by shaving it all off. I didn't recognise myself in the mirror. It was quite a shock, really. I don't really want to do that again. Also, it hides any suggestion of a double chin ;-)
 
@Kusalananda Those identity crisis things are tricky. But personally I don't think I'd ever consider a beard again. Unless I become homeless, which isn't impossible...
 
@FaheemMitha Ouch. Do take care. You're not in a good mood today.
 
@Kusalananda Not sure what you mean.
 
@FaheemMitha I mean exactly what I write; Ouch for the possibility of becoming homeless. Do take care, because you should take care of yourself. And you're having a rough time, like myself. Things come and go. Do what is right and don't look back.
 
@Kusalananda Ah. I just meant it was a possibility. Not meaning to sound dark, particularly. You take care of yourself too.
 
7:07 PM
@FaheemMitha You're a nice guy. I'm off to help someone brush their teeth. Then I'll find some sort of entertainment before going to bed. Be well.
 
@Kusalananda Thanks. You too.
Try the Borrowers novels. You might like them.
 
:thumbsup:
 
7:43 PM
@FaheemMitha BTW, the view from the kitchen during most of today: instagram.com/p/BS3C-OWDrc5
 
@Kusalananda Wintry. Possibly not cheery. But I wouldn't know without being there. Some people do like snow. I'm probably not one of them.
And the view from the kitchen here is very different.
 
@FaheemMitha A bit of a freak snowstorm. It's not normal. I saw crocuses popping out of the ground just yesterday.
 
@Kusalananda Oh. Right, it's the middle of April.
 

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