/dev/chat

12:10 PM

@maulinglawns There's even better:

-2

Q: How to pass a user input into a command line application via the command line arguments?

I have a command line application which requires a user input: ./some_application # something happens here..... # something happens here too..... Enter secret pass phrase: I want to call it from a terminal and pass a secret pass phrase to it right away, without having to enter it manually. H...

And please note the deleted comment:

Stephen Kitt

@terdon ooh that stings!

terdon

:)

I so wanted to answer "I don't think so, no, but I have top moderate some"

Stephen Kitt

@terdon heh heh... I see moderators can't undelete comments, that makes sense (then again until a couple of months ago I didn't know moderators could see deleted comments!).

terdon

We can undelete them if we (or another mod) deleted them in the first place. In this case, the comment was flagged as offensive by enough users that it got deleted automatically. Those we can't bring back. Same goes for any that the users deleted themselves.

Stephen Kitt

@terdon Ah OK, that's understandable — you can undo anything you do (as a group), but you can't go against the will of the author or the users.

terdon

12:16 PM

Yep. Not for actual posts though. We can undelete questions or answers even when deleted by the OP.

Stephen Kitt

@terdon Yup, and we can vote for undeletion too. The comment handling makes sense given that they're supposed to be evanescent!

0

Q: What problems or experiments did you try when first using the terminal?

Relatively new to Ubuntu/Linux terminal and I'm wondering what most here did or experimented with when they became familiar with the syntax and implementation of code in the terminal. I know my way around the system now, but just a little unsure as what to do now, so would like to see what peopl...

linux bash ubuntu terminal

I had a sarcastic comment ready but the edit makes it pointless... ("The first step is to write "kernel" correctly ;-).")

Just as well though, sarcastic welcomes for new users aren't what Unix.SE is about.

terdon

Oh wow. Have you see the profile pic?

Stephen Kitt

Yes, Stallone as Harry Potter :-).

Makes you wonder whether this is just a troll account, but the question doesn't read like a troll.

terdon

No, just someone thinking this is a forum.

Stephen Kitt

@terdon Indeed!

terdon

12:22 PM

:)

Oh, on a completely unrelated subject but I really need to brag about this, I finally took the plunge and shelled out for a CODE keyboard!

@maulinglawns Oh yes. Precisely.

If anyone is thinking of paying a ridiculous amount of money for a keyboard, I recommend it with absolutely no reservations. It's worth every penny!

@maulinglawns I gave a link!

Junaga

On the CODE keyboard, the Fn key replaces the Menu key

Dear god

I need this

terdon

It is absolutely wonderful. Feels nice, looks nice, works nice.

Junaga

but it's expensive x)

btw, do you guys know this sub?

reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards

terdon

Yes, that it is. I've been wanting to buy it for 3 years now and I can finally afford it.

Junaga

If not subscribe it's awesome

terdon

12:29 PM

Yeah, I've read some posts there while deciding to buy this.

Junaga

I've been the same logitech keyboard my entire live lul

Stephen Kitt

It's a shame they don't have an ISO variant, I always hit <kbd>\</kbd> on US keyboards...

Junaga

6years something I think

Stephen Kitt

@Junaga when I started typing the keyboard was part of the computer ;-)

Junaga

That's barbaric

On like a real Terminal?

terdon

12:35 PM

@StephenKitt Instead of enter?

I keep hitting enter instead of \ on this one. Need to get used to that.

Stephen Kitt

@terdon yeah instead of Enter

@Junaga well an Atari 400 in my case

terdon

Yeah, that can be annoying. What's an ISO variant?

Surely you don't mean that devil spawn azerty monstrosity the French use!

Stephen Kitt

@terdon deskthority.net/wiki/ANSI_vs_ISO

terdon

@StephenKitt Ah, yes. Those are indeed good.

I've used them quite often. The only one I simply couldn't get my head around was the French. I've used US, Greek, UK, Spanish, no problem.

But OK, use azerty, but shift for numbers? WTF?

Stephen Kitt

@terdon my pinky handles the numbers automatically now

but yes, lots of people use the numpad instead

I use the fr(oss) layout which is very nice, I can type stuff like × ÷ ↓ ↑ with the Alt Gr key

Junaga

12:46 PM

the iso standard also applies to my German keyboard (guess it's fine?) But I think the short shift on the left side is completely stupid

>We just need more space for the characters of our retarded language

Stephen Kitt

or use the Caps Lock key instead

(remapped)

Junaga

honestly wtf is this.
ä, ü, ö

terdon

?

Junaga

some german letters

Yes letters

terdon

@StephenKitt OK, yes, that's cool. I can get all of the ones I need through dead keys though (don't use those).

@Junaga You must be American.

Stephen Kitt

12:48 PM

@terdon probably not, see "my German keyboard" above ;-)

terdon

Ah, true. Then why in the world would you be surprised at ö?

ö_Ö

Junaga

@terdon living in Germany my entire live basically german(since I am 3 or sth). My parents came from russia but have german roots from back to ww2

Stephen Kitt

œ_Œ

Junaga

Stahp

my eyes

Stephen Kitt

æ_Æ

terdon

12:51 PM

Χει, ιτ καν γετ γορσε!

Junaga

at Least we use letters alright

how does even a Chinese keyboard look like?

Stephen Kitt

@maulinglawns it's not breaking any rules, alternate solutions are usually welcome, even after an answer has been accepted!

terdon

Junaga

no way

terdon

Apparently so :) I think they mostly use a simplified one which is like what we're used to though.

Junaga

1:01 PM

Thats surely isn't the standard. But still thats impressive enough

terdon

@maulinglawns What Stephen said. There's absolutely nothing wrong with posting another answer. Not unless it just repeats information already there.

Junaga

This is insane. honestly imagine You had one character for entire words You are like searching a dictionary trying to type

terdon

Greek keyboard are the same. They basically have US layout with Greek letters superimposed.

@Junaga They also write using the Japanese (which, I think, is actually Chinese in origin anyway) alphabet.

Stephen Kitt

@terdon do the letters match approximately, like alpha on A, beta on B etc.?

terdon

@StephenKitt Yes, most of them do.

Junaga

1:05 PM

I always hated the fact that some characters have like 3 sets. Make all of them 3 or all of them 2.

terdon

:)

Stephen Kitt

@Junaga on fr(oss) all keys produce four characters (plain, shift, alt gr and shift alt gr)

Junaga

@terdon Oh, so on your keyboard the @ is also accessed though pressing Alt Gr+Q? and Euro with E god does that make me frustrated

I honestly prefer the American layout it's so sorted. But the Enter key is different

which sucks

terdon

@Junaga No, the Greek layout is based on the US one so it's Shift+2. The SPanish and UK ones use Alt+2. Never seen one use Alt+Q

Junaga

Well the german one does xD

who decided this things anyways?

terdon

1:07 PM

Ah, no, the UK one has a dedicated @ key, forgot that.

Junaga

@StephenKitt wtf

Stephen Kitt

terdon

@StephenKitt 2 spaces? o_O

Junaga

@StephenKitt Yes what I was looking for, all the images I found showed only two letters.

terdon

What's the "fine" one for?

And when would you use a ÿ in French?

Junaga

1:10 PM

>Realizes Home Key has Windows Icon

ÿ How does language even work

Stephen Kitt

@terdon the fine space is used in front of some punctuation marks, like : or ;

terdon

Ah! Those are different? I had no idea.

Stephen Kitt

@terdon never, some of the characters are there to make typing other languages easier

although ÿ is accessible using a dead key too

terdon

I knew French has spaces before punctuation but thought it was just a normal space.

@StephenKitt Huh? On a French keyboard? :P

Stephen Kitt

the fine space is also supposed to be used as a separator for thousands etc., like 1 000

@terdon hah yes

terdon

1:13 PM

Huh.

I guess a normal space is the width of an em-dash and the other the width of an n-dash?

Junaga

@StephenKitt Thats some insane grammar

Stephen Kitt

@terdon no, the normal unbreakable space is the same width as a breakable space, fine is half that

Espace insécable

Une espace insécable est un signe typographique numérique consistant en une espace que l'on intercale entre deux mots (ou un mot et une ponctuation) qui ne doivent pas être séparés en fin de ligne. L'espace insécable permet d'éviter qu'un mot, un ensemble de mots, un nombre, une date[réf. souhaitée] ou une ponctuation soient rejetés et isolés au début de la ligne suivante lorsque cela nuirait à la fluidité de la lecture. == Définition == Comme terme générique, le concept englobe deux caractères distincts : L'espace insécable proprement dite, de même chasse que l'espace-mot ordinaire (sécable),...

terdon

Oh, hey, you're very welcome. But yes, this community is particularly good. It's one of the most friendly and civil ones on SE (as long as you do put in a little bit of effort).

Junaga

@maulinglawns I know right? This community is awesome I am basically a noob who knows nothing xD I've learned so much stuff, and many people took there time to explain me things. Comparing this to the experience I collected on SO/Superuser. just wow

Alone reading the first 100 most voted questions. I've learned more then In an Year from IT-class

@maulinglawns sorry ^^

terdon

@StephenKitt I see. Of course, they all look pretty much identical in my terminal :)

$ while IFS= read a; do printf ':%s:\n' "$a"; uniprops "$a"; done < a | grep -A2 '^:'
: :
U+0020 ‹U+0020› \N{SPACE}
    \s \h \pZ \p{Zs}
--
: :
U+202F ‹U+202F› \N{NARROW NO-BREAK SPACE}
    \s \h \pZ \p{Zs}
--
:–:
U+2013 ‹–› \N{EN DASH}
    \pP \p{Pd}
--
:—:
U+2014 ‹—› \N{EM DASH}
    \pP \p{Pd}

Ah, but not in my browser.

@Junaga OK, while this particular room is not too bothered about profanity, one of those words you used is actually pretty offensive. Please don't do that.

Junaga

1:28 PM

sorry:/
Yep, I am definitely spending too much time on 4chan x)

terdon

Yeah, that'll do it for you :)

Junaga

I don't get what you mean.

ohhhh

Yes

but /g/ is quite okay

terdon

Not sure if you don't need to enable it somewhere though.

@StephenKitt will know.

Stephen Kitt

@terdon I'd have to check, but I think the last install of Jessie I did had ntp enabled by default, yet.

s/yet/yes/

terdon

1:47 PM

You do know you can edit chat messages, right?

terdon

2:19 PM

@maulinglawns There's an arrow that appears on the left if you hover over a chat message. Click on it and one of the options is edit. It's only there for a few minutes after posting it though.

It should also work if you just hit the up arrow, I think.

Although that might be a feature of:

17

Q: Chat Reply Helper for Stack Exchange sites

Press : to start replying to a previous message. Press ↑ as many times as you need to mark the desired message. What does it do? First of all, the Chat Reply Helper for Stack Exchange sites provides a simple key combination to select a message to reply to. This removes the need to grab the...

script chrome-extensions chat greasemonkey

Which I also highly recommend.

Junaga

thanks for that addon

terdon

Yeah, it's brilliant. That one and the auto-review comments are the ones I can't live without on SE

347

Q: AutoReviewComments - Pro-forma comments for SE

No more re-typing the same comments over and over! This script adds a little 'auto' link next to all comments boxes. When you click the link, you see a popup with 6 configurable auto-comments (canned responses), which you can easily click to insert. This script was inspired by answers to thi...

script comments

Junaga

3:08 PM

>Friends of mine are discussing a new distro that appeared called Solus
>Comparing it to Ubuntu/Fedora/Gentoo
>Saying it's actually the best distro out there

I look it up.
It's some hipster Desktop with a custom package manger called eopkg
One repo having almost no packages.
Does not even have man pages

I say: Guys that's not a real distro

reply: gtfo You know shit

terdon

Budgie is supposed to be quite good, actually.

Junaga

3:22 PM

Yes but the Desktop is just a small part of the distro or not?
That's actually my point, our generation grew up with double-click desktops. Graphics is all we know.
They are helpful, and nice, and structured. But the Graphics, (just like everything thats gets sort of terminal like outputted) are just a compression of the entirety of the system that runs on the hardware. (I barely managed to understand it, and still have (sort of) to remind myself everyday that there is much more to it then the Desktop I see).

terdon

3:33 PM

Heh, your generation maybe. I still had to choose to install a desktop manager and manually start it with startx when I started using Linux :P

But it all depends on what you use it for. If you don't want the terminal and all you use is the GUI, then the GUI is very important for you. To each their own.

What do you use, anyway?

Junaga

as Desktop?

openbox

terdon

As distro

Junaga

Debianx)

and you?:p

terdon

Arch for the past year or so.

Been through many though.

Junaga

I am looking forward into testing it^^

It is really resource friendly right?

terdon

3:47 PM

It's exactly what you make it be.

The base install, yes. It doesn't even have a GUI.

Junaga

I love Freedom x)

But, what exactly differs? Except the package manager/repos?

terdon

Not much, really. I mean the system you get is basically the same in the end.

But you get to configure it just the way you like it, you learn a hell of a lot in the process and you don't have anything installed that you don't actually need.

All Linux distros are mostly the same when you get right down to it.

And it's sort of a mix between source-based and binary-based distros. The base packages are precompiled, but then you get loads of extra stuff from AUR and those you (well, your package manager) compile for your system.

Have a look at wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/…

and wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Frequently_asked_questions

And this for a nice overview of what Arch is:

wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Arch_Linux

Junaga

If it comes to the following what would you say is the best distro?
1.Security
2.Customizability
3.User-friendliness (On 4 levels: Sysadmin, Superuser, normal-user, My mom)
4.Resource-friendliness

@terdon Definitely going to check it out, give me a few days I am currently reading about networking^^

Stephen Kitt

1. Debian or one of the paid-support distros (e.g. RHEL)

2. Arch or Debian (in different ways)

3. I don't know

4. I don't know

For the latter, you can make most distros more or less resource-friendly, it depends on what you run on them.

Fedora is nice if you like frequent updates, Debian testing gives you that too but probably needs more in-depth knowledge if you want to keep it secure.

Gentoo would be a nice fit for (2) also.

Junaga

How professional is redhat e actually?
I remember reading once that it only is used by the biggest experts of all. like nsa employers.

Stephen Kitt

4:02 PM

What do you mean by "professional"?

Lots of companies use it, pretty much all the Fortune 500 companies in the US, and loads more around the world.

(I work for Red Hat BTW.)

Junaga

oh,

terdon

He's also a Debian Dev, so he should know what he's talking about on both fronts.

@StephenKitt why would any distro be more secure than any other?

Junaga

But, RHE is closed source or not?

terdon

No!

Stephen Kitt

@terdon I was thinking more about how fast they issue security updates, and how well-connected they are with the disclosure communities.

Junaga

4:04 PM

oh,

sorry x)

Stephen Kitt

@Junaga redhat.com/en/open-source ;-)

terdon

@StephenKitt Ah, right. OK

Stephen Kitt

@terdon otherwise I'd say OpenBSD ;-)

terdon

For 2. I would say LSF first, then things like Gentoo and Slackware, then Arch and then Debian etc.

Junaga

whats LSF?

terdon

4:07 PM

Linux from scratch

linuxfromscratch.org

Junaga

ohh yes I read about that one

did they acutally rebuild everything?

or just the coreutls and upwards?

Stephen Kitt

@Junaga yes, you do end up rebuilding everything.

Junaga

But not the Kernel or?

Stephen Kitt

@Junaga the kernel too

Junaga

wtf

Stephen Kitt

4:08 PM

the kernel's easy to build really

Junaga

and what about all the drivers? they surely didn't rebuild drivers

terdon

Of course

That's what all the distros do.

Junaga

This is insane

terdon

Think of LFS as building your own distro.

It's not something you do unless you want to dig deep into the Linux system and get your hands dirty.

Stephen Kitt

@terdon some rely on others to do the rebuilding ;-)

terdon

4:10 PM

Heh, true, true.

Stephen Kitt

@terdon it's an interesting voyage of discovery

terdon

Ever done it?

Junaga

@terdon They do? How, I thought drivers are Kernel depended. or do you mean higher lvl drivers?

terdon

Some are in the kernel, some aren't.

And for those that are, they aren't actually in the kernel AFAIK. They need to be enabled at compile time. Right @StephenKitt?

Stephen Kitt

@terdon before LFS

@terdon yeah it depends

terdon

4:13 PM

@StephenKitt Oh wow, before the book, huh? Brave man.

Stephen Kitt

you can still build a monolithic kernel with everything you need built in

but yes, modules are only built if you configure them in the kernel

terdon

But to do so, you need to explicitly enable the relevant compile flags to include the drivers, right?

Stephen Kitt

although you can always rebuild a module afterwards

Junaga

Yes they arn't in the Kernel but they are in Kernel Space R0-2 that's why they need to be written depended on each other

Stephen Kitt

there are some external drivers still

like ddcci

and nvidia of course

Junaga

4:14 PM

whats that?:o

oh graphics

terdon

And stphchzlas

Sigh. Wouldn't it be great to be able to just use --with-stphchzlas or --with-gilles and have their expertise included in your system?

Stephen Kitt

gitlab.com/ddcci-driver-linux/ddcci-driver-linux

@Junaga kernel is just R0 on x86

@terdon sysadmins everywhere would be out of a job ;-)

terdon

Heh :)

Junaga

Yes but the drivers do spread from 0-2 or not?

Stephen Kitt

@Junaga not kernel modules

Junaga

4:16 PM

ohhh

Stephen Kitt

there are FUSE-type drivers which run in userspace, ring 3

very few OSs use rings 1 and 2

OS/2 and Netware come to mind

Junaga

So "Kernel-Space" is just R0 or not?

Stephen Kitt

@Junaga on Linux yes

on x86 anyway

other CPUs have different protection mechanisms

Junaga

ON other ISA's you mean

:p

^^

Stephen Kitt

indeed

Junaga

4:51 PM

Oh my god. I just found out a Server is something that: Serves.
That's where the name comes from: Serving

terdon

5:01 PM

@maulinglawns Wait until you get called "dude" :)

You must be really old though. You have kids and everything!

You could even be (gasp) over thirty!

Junaga

You don't look that old tho

terdon

That old? As in >30?

nah, he does. I bet he is, too.

(I'm 36, by the way, just in case you take any of this personally :)

Junaga

I am 20 lul. You are all Old.
OLD
*OLD*

terdon

Oh hey! See? I knew you were old!

@Junaga Yeah, we had kinda figured that out :)

Junaga

@terdon xD

Pleas everyone fav this. best roast I've read so far, here.

terdon

5:08 PM

By the way, we prefer "matured" or "delicately aged" rather than "old".

:P

Junaga

I am Serious . this was awesome I am still laughing x)

Only his joke:P
the rest was like Old people are joking around.

^^

You think so:p

terdon

What? What? Speak up, I can't hear you. In my day, younguns knew how to speak to their elders!

Junaga

before I get Old immortality gets invented

btw what music do you old people like?

I fcking love Dubstep

xKore ft. Zoe & Naomi - Need You [Centra 100BPM Remix]

►

xd is my generation so obvious.

@maulinglawns but I censored it :/

terdon

Hey, I own my age. I'm into Jazz.

Junaga

Baker Street HQ Instrumental

►

This is jazz right?

terdon

5:18 PM

@maulinglawns Ah, yes. My favorite album for chess playing.

@Junaga No, that's Muzak.

@maulinglawns I'll check him out, thanks.

@Junaga Jazz is probably the broadest musical category of all. It includes things like this and things like this

From very smooth and calm to absolutely crazy wild, bordering on thrash metal. And pretty much anything in between.

For the thrash side (well, noise, really), here's one:

Bonehead - Naked City

►

Junaga

Please don't get me wrong

but it's honestly soo hard to find a melody for me

terdon

The brains (and sax) of that group is the same person who wrote this:

Masada String Trio - Meholalot

►

Just to give you an idea of how wide the range is.

Junaga

it just seams there is no rhythm it's like it's random

terdon

@Junaga Heh, that depends very much on what you're listening to.

Junaga

@terdon That one is actually great

terdon

5:24 PM

No indeed!

derobert

All your weird music. I've been listening to Ring for the last few days...

Junaga

I swear to god I've heard this before playing hearthstone I think xD

terdon

@Junaga That is a wonderful group.

And if you want rhythm, try this:

Steve Coleman and Five Elements - Drop Kick Live

►

He's probably the most rhythmic musician I know.

@derobert Hey, I've been listening to Chopin all day :)

Junaga

@derobert What's ring?

terdon

Nibelugen, probably.

derobert

5:26 PM

@Junaga Opera cycle by Wagner

terdon

Der Ring des Nibelungen

Der Ring des Nibelungen (The Ring of the Nibelung), WWV 86, is a cycle of four German-language epic music dramas composed by Richard Wagner. The works are based loosely on characters from the Norse sagas and the Nibelungenlied. The composer termed the cycle a "Bühnenfestspiel" (stage festival play), structured in three days preceded by a Vorabend ("preliminary evening"). It is often referred to as the Ring Cycle, Wagner's Ring, or simply The Ring. Wagner wrote the libretto and music over the course of about twenty-six years, from 1848 to 1874. The four parts that constitute the Ring cycle are,...

derobert

Yep. Finishing up Siegfried now, soon will be on Götterdämmerung.

terdon

@terdon Damn. I hadn't heard that one for a while. Forgotten how good it was.

Junaga

This is the most german thing I've read this month

what do you guys think about rock?

like this

Foo Fighters - The Pretender

►

terdon

Oh Rock's great. I grew up with rock. And then I discovered Jazz.

Still listen to some rock stuff though.

Junaga

5:36 PM

Do you know this?

Kim Dotcom - Good Life

►

yep that's him xD
he made some songs

derobert

Questions like this unix.stackexchange.com/questions/325211/… make me think we really need a "how does networking work" question to point folks to, to give the basics of IP routing

Junaga

Yes!

derobert

And of course the tools to manipulate on various Unices.

Junaga

I already searched for this once!

One Giant and awesome answer, who could do this?

derobert

It wouldn't even be that long... it's actually fairly simple....

Maybe I'll start one on Google Docs or something (anyone have a good open source suggested alternative?) and then I can post it here once its at least somewhat ready.

terdon

5:53 PM

@derobert Yeah, you can put it next to your NTP answer.

:P

derobert

@terdon oh dear, I forgot about that one entirely....

terdon

:)

derobert

Hey, the networking one is probably shorter! And comes up more often....

terdon

Sep 23 '13 at 16:15, by derobert

At work, too. If I work on that NTP question, it'll probably be tomorrow...

Hmmm. . .

Junaga

where can I actually read how networking works?

terdon

5:55 PM

Oh wow, it's still around!

docs.google.com/document/d/…

Junaga

maybe someone can help me.(something to read that helps me to understand)
about networking/distributed computing

not on a "very technical" level(explanation using source code)
but It shouldn't be child friendly. Wikipedia level and or above. So not like tutorial stuff, that explains using dialogs.

Transcript for