/dev/chat

@strugee well, no. From his perspective, he never did get an answer. You pointed him to an answer, but he probably does not consider that the same thing. I can sort of relate - sometimes I like answers too.

And that isn't a criticism of your replies, of course.

I hope your tests/exams went well. Are you having a good summer?

strugee

@FaheemMitha yes, it's been lovely so far. exams went pretty well, thanks for asking!

@FaheemMitha yeah, I can understand. I don't do Red Hat, so...

Faheem Mitha

7:57 AM

@strugee Good to know.

strugee

@FaheemMitha and how have you been?

Faheem Mitha

@strugee If I understand the question correctly, wouldn't he just need to do a listing of the files in the apache package. Using rpm presumably. rpm -ql? something like that.

@strugee I've been Ok. Could be better.

Could be worse too, I suppose.

strugee

@FaheemMitha ah. could be worse, I suppose.

Faheem Mitha

@strugee :-)

strugee

@FaheemMitha race conditions may apply :P

Faheem Mitha

7:59 AM

@strugee heh

strugee

@FaheemMitha yeah, something like that. I think he may be better off just doing whatever the equivalent of apt-get purge is

on RPM

Faheem Mitha

@strugee yes, I don't use RH based systems either. I used to know those commands once, sort of. I ran RH and SuSE once a long time ago. In the late 90s. It was like for 3 years.

rpm itself is kind of crap. At least it used to be. Dunno if it has gotten any better.

strugee

@FaheemMitha heh.

I know YUM is undergoing a rewrite now.

Faheem Mitha

@strugee It is? Ok.

strugee

@FaheemMitha I was waiting for RHEL7 (well, really CentOS 7) to put on my home server, and eventually I was like

"why am I waiting for months for some software to appear at an unknown date in the future when I could just put Debian stable - aka a distro that I know how to use and trust - on it instead? now?"

Faheem Mitha

8:04 AM

The yum history doesn't look that active. yum.baseurl.org/gitweb?p=yum.git;a=shortlog

strugee

@FaheemMitha yeah, I've forgotten the codename. it's on the Fedora wiki somewhere.

Faheem Mitha

@strugee ok

@strugee Yes, Debian is imo generally better than the RH based options. Though I think Fedora may be getting better. I don't know about RHEL. They only support a small subset of packages anyway.

There does seem to be a lot of activity around Fedora these days, though I don't really keep up with the news. I do read LWN.

strugee

@FaheemMitha yeah, Fedora has a project I'm pretty excited about. Fedora Workstation.

Faheem Mitha

@strugee Ok. Why?

strugee

essentially it's about shifting the focus of development of Fedora from "oooo, this technology is cool, we should put it in Fedora!" to "let's create a great user experience, and to do that, we're going to use all this nifty tech"

blogs.gnome.org/uraeus/2014/04/16/…

if you're feeling motivated

Faheem Mitha

8:10 AM

@strugee Ok, I glanced at it.

strugee

found it! DNF and Hawkley

^ next-gen YUM

@FaheemMitha it's a good read. but I get it, it's super long :)

hahaha there's a "hardcore-mode" package for Emacs on MELPA

it disables the arrow keys and optionally the backspace and return keys

Faheem Mitha

8:27 AM

@strugee So some kind of joke package?

@strugee Well, I've read many such posts over the years. :-)

strugee

@FaheemMitha maybe, I don't know :P

I'm going to turn it on for every buffer when I get motivated

it's already in my list of auto-installed packages

Faheem Mitha

I don't know if Fedora has anything like Debian Policy, but if they don't, that's a big missing piece.

strugee

@FaheemMitha I believe they do.

Faheem Mitha

@strugee Really? Where is it?

strugee

@FaheemMitha no idea

Faheem Mitha

8:31 AM

Would be a reasonable question for this site actually. But a google search doesn't bring anything up. And I've actually never heard of any other OS having anything like Debian policy.

strugee

fedoraproject.org/wiki/Overview

somewhat like Debian policy

Faheem Mitha

See lwn.net/Articles/83932

strugee

outlines goals, vision, etc.

Faheem Mitha

@strugee Not, really, no. Have you looked at the Debian Policy manual?

strugee

@FaheemMitha apparently not enough

I looked at some Debian document once.

I guess it wasn't the Policy manual

Faheem Mitha

8:35 AM

@strugee Debian Policy is a specific detailed technical guide to how packaging happens. and how it integrates with the OS. and so forth

debian.org/doc/debian-policy

As far as I know, it is unique to Debian.

strugee

@FaheemMitha ah, yes. I have read parts of the Debian Policy.

Faheem Mitha

See, for example, my answer at unix.stackexchange.com/a/9472/4671

Anyway, that's my take on it.

strugee

yeah, I do like Debian.

even though I prefer to run Arch on desktop systems (as I've waxed on about before), I'm a huge fan of the Debian project.

Faheem Mitha

@strugee That's good.

strugee

@FaheemMitha yep!

Faheem Mitha

8:51 AM

@strugee you're up late. like 2 am where you are? well, i guess I'll take a nap. Talk to you later.

strugee

@FaheemMitha yep. 2. I'm learning C.

and with that, I'll... see... ya!

Faheem Mitha

@strugee Try Common Lisp instead. :-)

@strugee Take care. Have a good night.

strugee

@FaheemMitha LISP's on my list of languages to learn :)

I've picked up some from writing ~/.emacs

@FaheemMitha thanks! you too

Faheem Mitha

@strugee That's good. But CL is quite different from Emacs Lisp. Same family though.

strugee

@FaheemMitha ok, I'll make sure to properly learn it then.

Faheem Mitha

8:54 AM

@strugee Yes, give it a try. Practical Common Lisp is pretty good, and is available free online. There are also other books one can download of course.

strugee

@FaheemMitha ok.

Patrick

12:40 PM

Meh, I think C is far more important to learn than common lisp. C is the language used in the vast majority of applications.

Caleb

@Patrick That depends on what your objectives are. There is something to be said for having specialty knowledge.

Patrick

@Caleb Not saying CL shouldn't be learned as well. But as a first (or early) language, C will provide the foundation for a lot of stuff.

Caleb

1:24 PM

@slm Jinx.

Faheem Mitha

2:12 PM

@Patrick Not by end users.

Patrick

@FaheemMitha End users don't generally deal with any programming language.

Faheem Mitha

And CL is a pretty good language, and inexplicably neglected. I've no idea why. The current implementations do leave a lot to be desired, but this just reflects the lack of resources.

@Patrick Well, they might do shell scripting or a bit of python.

Even ls is technically a shell script.

Patrick

@FaheemMitha That depends how you're defining "end user"

Faheem Mitha

@Patrick Sure. C is more a systems level thing. Much more specialist. Lots of people do a little programming, but far fewer would use C. That is all I'm saying.

And personally I prefer C++ to C, not that I am keen on either.

slm

3:16 PM

@Caleb If I could figure out how to put a Coke into the chat room I'd send you one 8-)

Faheem Mitha

@slm Why are you offering Caleb a Coke?

BTW, how is virtualbox to use these days? I haven't kept up with it.

mikeserv

@FaheemMitha - he's not offering it - he owes it.

Faheem Mitha

@mikeserv Why?

mikeserv

3:32 PM

Because some things you just never grow out of...

Jinx (children's game)

A jinx is a game with a myriad of highly varied rules and penalties that occurs when two people unintentionally or intentionally speak the same word or phrase simultaneously. Rules A jinx can be initiated when at least two people say any same word or phrase at the same time. The game ends when someone speaks the jinxee's name, or when the jinxee "breaks" the jinx by speaking while in a state of being jinxed. In the latter case, the jinxee loses the game, and often a penalty is exacted, typically a drink. Penalties The historic penalty for losing or violating a jinx is a pinch, poke or...

I especially like See Also: Punch buggy

Faheem Mitha

@mikeserv Yes, I know what Jinx is, but I don't see the relevance to an offer of Coke.

mikeserv

But... Jinx - you owe me a Coke...

That's how I always played it.

It's in the wikipedia article too.

Faheem Mitha

@mikeserv Ah, this is some unwritten rule then? Ok.

mikeserv

No - as I just found out - it's written.

Faheem Mitha

@mikeserv Yes, I see it. Nice for the Coca Cola company. They get kids to do their advertising for them.

And for free.

mikeserv

3:38 PM

I didn't know any of it was there though - much less Punch buggy.

Faheem Mitha

> The historic penalty for losing or violating a jinx is a pinch, poke or a punch in the arm.

I don't think that's going to work so well over the internet.

Actually, I didn't know it was a formal game. I thought it was just something you say when you say the same thing as someone else.

mikeserv

Yeah, good and bad I guess. But Jinx - you owe me a carbonated soft drink just doesn't roll off the tongue as easily - which counts for a lot in a game in which the quickest to say a thing wins.

Faheem Mitha

The punch buggy game just sounds stupid.

@mikeserv Agreed.

mikeserv

It is.

Faheem Mitha

I see Debian has virtualbox and virtualbox-ose. which should one use?

mikeserv

3:43 PM

The open source edition may not require the proprietary kernel module drivers.

Other than that I don't know.

Faheem Mitha

@mikeserv ok

casey

1

Q: What's technical difference between official virtualbox and VirtualBox-OSE?

What's technical difference between official VirtualBox and VirtualBox-OSE? My scenario: I'm using Debian sid, it uses a 3.2.0-4 kernel. When you want to download VirtualBox, you have 3 options: customized for distro: such as Debian, Fedora and so on, .bin, and source code. When you install ...

virtualbox

@FaheemMitha ^^^^

Faheem Mitha

@casey Excellent, thanks.

casey

these days I don't think there is any appreciable reason to use one or the other

Faheem Mitha

@casey According to the answers, there is only one version now. It is true, the ose only exists in wheezy. So I guess one should do a backport.

casey

3:49 PM

i use the open source edition with the binary extension pack

Faheem Mitha

@casey on gentoo?

casey

yep

Faheem Mitha

@casey Are there actually multiple versions on gentoo?

casey

> % qsearch virtualbox
app-emulation/phpvirtualbox Web-based administration for VirtualBox in PHP
app-emulation/virtualbox Family of powerful x86 virtualization products for enterprise as well as home use
app-emulation/virtualbox-additions CD image containing guest additions for VirtualBox
app-emulation/virtualbox-bin Family of powerful x86 virtualization products for enterprise as well as home use
app-emulation/virtualbox-extpack-oracle PUEL extensions for VirtualBox
app-emulation/virtualbox-guest-additions VirtualBox kernel modules and user-space tools for Gentoo guests

Faheem Mitha

@casey Looks like one version to me.

Braiam

4:26 PM

4

Faheem Mitha

5:07 PM

@Braiam Someone forgot Common Lisp. "Finally, I cam understand your essay! why didn't you use this first?"

Tim

6:24 PM

I am looking for a online tester that can test the conditional with lookaround as the if part. I tried some, but havent found one working yet.

0

Q: Does Python support conditional structure in regex?

Does Python support conditional structure in regex? If yes, why I can't have the following (using lookahead in the if part) right? Any way to make Python support it? >>> p = re.compile(r'(?(?=regex)then|else)') Traceback (most recent call last): File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module> File "/...

python regex

@Braiam What does it mean about Java and C++?

Tim

6:39 PM

@terdon: what do you mean that " Stephane is some kind of mythical, magical creature, Gilles is a wizard and slm is a human paladin"?

terdon

@Tim Hang around the site a bit more and you'll understand. Those are the three top rep users.

Tim

Are they living in some difernt world?

Patrick

don't most linux users? :-)

terdon

Nah, they just are very knowledgeable. Stephane so much so that he seems magical.

Tim

why magical? knolwedge is created by some other human beings

mikeserv

6:41 PM

@Tim - that depends on how you define living. Consult Asimov.

Tim

some live to die, and some dies to live

terdon

Gilles is pretty much the same, he comes up with the most arcane little bits of detail. Slm is more understandable, his is the kind of knowledge you could imagine aspiring to if you spent long enough working in and around *nix.

Tim

which means I haven't spent long enough. :0

terdon

I said "imagine aspiring to" :) That's a step away from even aspiring.

Tim

Could you paraphrase that? I am obtuse.

Gilles

7:02 PM

@FaheemMitha no, that's Haskell. Lisp is more like “why did you switch to French midway?”

@terdon I learned by experimenting and reading. A significant part of my reading was Stephane's posts on Usenet.

3

terdon

@Gilles Ah, so he affected you too huh? And I realize that's how you must have learned, don worry, we know youŕe actually human.

Braiam

this is funny:

I'd recommend to tatoo another line – bash: syntax error near unexpected token `{:' — Kristaps Karlsons Jan 21 at 22:45

Faheem Mitha

7:20 PM

@terdon I forgot to send you those reviews as I mentioned before in chat, so I'm sending them to you now.

@Braiam A shell script tattoo. That's just weird.

derobert

8:00 PM

Nominations are open

Faheem Mitha

Which sounds better:

"divide x into a collection of disjoint subsets." or "divide x into a disjoint collection of subsets."?

@derobert Go for it.

and where?

derobert

unix.stackexchange.com/election

Faheem Mitha

@derobert Thanks.

Gilles

@FaheemMitha the former. The latter sounds like there's some collection that has no subset in common with some other collection.

derobert

@FaheemMitha well, I think they mean something different. Or maybe. I'm not completely familiar with the terms

Faheem Mitha

8:04 PM

@Gilles Yes, that's the one I chose. Thanks.

@derobert ok

@derobert I was meaning to ask. Where is your lightning photo from?

derobert

@FaheemMitha Yep. I now get to write a paragraph or two bragging about how great I am, which is something that I really don't like doing...

@FaheemMitha My lightning photo???

Faheem Mitha

So, @derobert and @slm and @terdon. Is this a case of ready, steady, off and go?

Ramesh

nomination period began
5 mins ago

Faheem Mitha

@derobert right. Was that unclear?

Ramesh

Yipeeeee

derobert

8:06 PM

@FaheemMitha I'm not sure which lightning photo you're talking about

Faheem Mitha

@derobert The one appearing next to your name. All in red.

derobert

Oh! that's a render of part of the Mandelbrot set

Faheem Mitha

@derobert Ah, I stand corrected. And all this time I thought it was a picture of lightning.

Maybe through some weird colored lens.

derobert

Lightning would have more blue/white in it. But yeah, other than the colors, it has some lightning-like branching.

Faheem Mitha

@derobert I didn't know you were into fracals.

derobert

8:09 PM

Yeah. They look neat :-)

Faheem Mitha

@derobert Like I said, weird colored lens.

@Anthon hey, are you going to stand for mod?

Ramesh

@derobert, what is the criteria for nominations? Apparently, I got a notification that I can nominate even myself :)

derobert

@Ramesh All nominations are self-nominations

Faheem Mitha

Nobody yet.

Ramesh

So no reputation required for nominations?

Braiam

8:11 PM

@Ramesh at least 300

Anthon

@FaheemMitha If I get nominated

Gilles

@Ramesh The only rule is to have at least 300 rep.

Ramesh

oh ok. Thanks for clarification.

Gilles

@Anthon that's up to you. Running in an election is voluntary.

Faheem Mitha

@Anthon It's a self nomination.

Gilles

8:12 PM

But after that there's a vote. If your only claim to fame is 300 rep, you don't stand a chance.

Anthon

@Gilles At the ebook elections that was by self-nomination or by nomination by others

Gilles

People tend to look at reputation more than they should

Anthon

isn't that the same here

Braiam

@Anthon that was for pro-tempore

is less formal

Gilles

and beyond that, demonstrate activity on meta, solid guidance to users in comments, a good flag record, review activity, ...

Anthon

8:13 PM

@Braiam Ah, thanks, maybe I should read through the pages. its getting late here.

Gilles

@Anthon there was no ebook election. On beta sites, moderators are chosen by SE staff.

Sites get elections once the community has stabilized a bit. The first election happens a little after graduation.

Anthon

@Gilles you are right, I am mixing things up

Is the election because one of the current moderators stepped back?

Gilles

@Anthon yes, and also we're getting a fourth

Ramesh

@Anthon, meta.unix.stackexchange.com/questions/2924/…

Gilles

U&L is pretty tame, but we have 60 q/day, and U&L and TeX are the only two sites with >30q/day that don't have at least 5 mods

Braiam

8:16 PM

@Gilles that's pretty cool actually

through sometimes spam stays for far too much time

derobert

I need to put an answer on the C question on meta I asked. Tried to over the weekend, but the site kept showing as in read-only for me for most of Saturday :-(

Ramesh

@Gilles, I think U & L runs smoothly even with lesser moderators.

derobert

I think the main thing more moderators will get us is that the few problems that do occur will be dealt with quicker.

Ramesh

so mentioning spam, I always get the edit for this user symcbean and it always happens in the same question again and again.

Faheem Mitha

@derobert C question on meta?

derobert

8:17 PM

@FaheemMitha The one about the site scope... if the C API is still on-topic

Ramesh

I have flagged it multiple times but apparently the spam escapes somehow I guess.

Faheem Mitha

@derobert Oh, that one.

no nominations yet. come on, guys. chop chop.

Gilles

@Ramesh there's a firewall that protects against bots, but the protection isn't absolute.

Ramesh

@Gilles, the spammers are targetting only this particular user and this particular answer.

2

A: I want to use a bluetooth keyboard during initram

Wouldn't it be simpler to have the root filesystem unencrypted and just delay mounting the encrypted /home till after the OS is up?

So, can't the moderators delete this answer citing as prone to spam or something?

Gilles

It learns from spam flags and rejection of suggested edits as vandalism, so remember to use the proper flag: flag spam as spam (don't vote to delete, as that doesn't train the spam filter), and reject spam as vandalism (not as radical change or invalid edit, because that doesn't train the spam filter)

@Ramesh they could, but the spammers would just pick on another post

Ramesh

8:20 PM

@Gilles, I have always rejected as vandalism.

derobert

@Ramesh There are a few other answers they target, too.

Braiam

@Ramesh that seems like an NAA

derobert

And I don't think its a good thing to delete random answers just because some miscreant targeted them. If anything, locking it would be more appropriate (can an answer be locked, or only a question? Not sure.)

Ramesh

Oh ok. But I have seen spammers targetting this user alone and this user is not active also.

Gilles

@Braiam no, it's a bit elliptic, but it does answer the question

@derobert an answer can be locked, but again, there's no point, the spammer would just pick another one

Ramesh

8:21 PM

Or wondering if the posts of this user alone can be locked?

Gilles

40 secs ago, by Gilles

@derobert an answer can be locked, but again, there's no point, the spammer would just pick another one

derobert

@Gilles Maybe. The spammer obviously isn't too bright, as he/she doesn't notice that all his/her edits are rejected.

Gilles

@derobert he does, but he keeps doing it in the hope that one of them will get through

that's how spammers operate

possibly he's paid by the hour or by the attempt as opposed to by the number of successes

Ramesh

@derobert, the spammer apparently doesn't care. He advertises some ray ban glass or something by editing the posts.

I even went to the site mentioned in the post and the site seems to be fake.

derobert

Could be. Or could be a bot. Or maybe the spammer just has a long list of URLs he goes through, over and over again...

Braiam

8:23 PM

@Gilles I edited it... so...

derobert

But regardless, its not a huge deal, not like the spammer is overflowing the edit queue. Or getting edits approved, both of which would be a problem.

Braiam

if there are >X attempts to vandalize a post by anonymous users the post gets blocked for editions

Ramesh

@derobert, exactly. But my concern is the spammer targets only this user. I was wondering if the user is even aware of it.

Gilles

@Ramesh he gets all these notifications, so yes, he's aware

but there's nothing he can do about it

derobert

account shows active as of late May, so yeah, aware of it

Ramesh

8:27 PM

So if the user approves the edit before the edit goes through the review queue, does that mean the spammer is successful in editing the users' post?

Braiam

@Ramesh why would he approve it in first place?

Ramesh

Apparently, I believe it wouldn't be difficult for spammer to gain access to the user if he can target his posts.

derobert

@Ramesh yes, the author can always approve a pending edit

@Ramesh if the spammer gained access to the author's account, the edit wouldn't even go through the queue.

Braiam

> Is there any reason for the ketchup marker class with 2px dotted #a6a6a6 border-top?

Ramesh

@derobert, got it. So I believe the spammer is hold at the gates and cannot gain an entry into the iron fort :)

Faheem Mitha

8:33 PM

How many votes does each person get?

derobert

@FaheemMitha You get a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd choice.

Faheem Mitha

@derobert ok, thanks.

@derobert damn, you really will never be a politician.

derobert

/me puts on politician hat

@FaheemMitha You get one vote for me, then you can put (two of) slm, terdon, Anton, Braiam, etc. as your 2nd and 3rd choices

/me takes off politician hat

Was that better? :-P

Faheem Mitha

@derobert Sounds good. :-)

still no nominations. come on guys, i'm getting bored.

Braiam

@FaheemMitha we are geeks!

derobert

8:41 PM

@FaheemMitha Mine should come tomorrow sometime

Faheem Mitha

@Braiam So?

@derobert Ok

I thought surely someone would just say - vote for me cos I'm awesome. Now, that's short and sweet.

derobert

I should put because my avatar is awesome ;-)

Faheem Mitha

@derobert That too.

actually, slm could put that as his nomination statement. everyone on the site probably already knows who he is.

derobert

Either that, or I need to do a posting that is a parody of No. 6's election campaign.

Faheem Mitha

@derobert No. 6?

derobert

8:44 PM

Number Six (The Prisoner)

Number 6 is the central character in the 1960s television series The Prisoner, played by Patrick McGoohan. In the AMC remake, the character is played by Jim Caviezel, renamed "Six". In the original-series episode "Do Not Forsake Me, Oh My Darling," and due to its mind-transfer plotline, Number 6 is portrayed by Nigel Stock. In several episodes, his attempts to escape his prison the Village would be foiled, either by Number 2, the place's chief administrator, who was frequently changed, or by Rover, an enigmatic artificial guardian that resembles a weather balloon. Much of Number 6's ba...

OTOH, unix.stackexchange.com/users/6/kevin-montrose should definitely just change his profile name to Number Six.

Gilles

@derobert no one has fully decoded my Science Fiction & Fantasy election nomination post. Don't bother doing something too elaborate.

Faheem Mitha

@terdon sorry for the double email.

derobert

@Gilles Hah, yeah. I'm not going to put that much effort into it. I do owe the site a blog post or two, which I need to work on instead.

Ramesh

ha, I created sci fi account to ask question about game of thrones :p

Braiam

maybe we need to lick you a bit @derobert

derobert

8:51 PM

@Braiam I'm not a tootsie roll lollipop... it'll take far more than three!

strugee

9:19 PM

@derobert that blog post, though! GO FORTH!

derobert

10:00 PM

@strugee If I did a blog post on FORTH, then (a) I'd have to learn FORTH; (b) Gilles would close it as off-topic; (c) shouldn't that be FORTH GO (or maybe "FORTH" GO, or even FORTH GO . if you wanted to see the result.)

mikeserv

sally forth?

derobert

@strugee also, having looked it up on Wikipedia, FORTH's "function" definition syntax is clearly wrong. I suggest PostScript instead, they got it right.

@mikeserv Can't say I read the comics page...

mikeserv

but you know where to look. I'd say there's a blog in that.

Faheem Mitha

@derobert you should try stand-up.

derobert

@FaheemMitha I'm sure jokes about semi-obscure programming languages would go over well with the average comedy club crowd.

Faheem Mitha

10:10 PM

@derobert You could set a new trend.

derobert

There is a Geek Comedy Tour, but even they don't do jokes like that...

mikeserv

the geeks would just watch it on youtube anyway.

Faheem Mitha

@derobert Well, people go for the Big Band Theory and Jim Parsons, so why not?

Aka Sheldon Cooper, of course.

derobert

@FaheemMitha I'm trying to imagine this Big Band Theory show. Would be pretty interesting!

Faheem Mitha

@derobert Whoops, typo.

I meant the Big Bang Theory, of course.

derobert

10:14 PM

But would be an interesting parody. When you substitute various obscure things from musicology.

mikeserv

picture: really big microphones

Faheem Mitha

@derobert Perhaps. I doubt BBT is so famous that people are going to parody it. Plus it is a bit of a parody of itself anyway.

derobert

BBT is pretty famous...

Faheem Mitha

@derobert It is? Wonder why.

derobert

It gets something like 15-20 million viewers in the US, at least.

The Big Bang Theory

Faheem Mitha

10:16 PM

I've watched it for years, but I always wonder why it is so popular.

@derobert Yes, I know.

Does that equate to being famous?

derobert

I don't know. I've seen an episode or two.

Faheem Mitha

@derobert What did you think?

derobert

@FaheemMitha Well, Wikipedia tells me its #2 in TV ratings this season, #3 last season. So that's pretty famous.

Faheem Mitha

@derobert overall? or just for its time slot?

derobert

@FaheemMitha Don't know what to think of it. Was a random episode. Need to watch it for real to have an opinion of it

@FaheemMitha Probably for its time slot, that table on Wikipedia isn't clear

Faheem Mitha

10:19 PM

@derobert Ok. It is a little puzzling, because it is not exactly US mainstream. It is increasingly being dumbed down, but originally it was way more intelligent than the average US sitcom.

derobert

Checking the citation, no. 2 in prime time. So probably #2 overall

Faheem Mitha

Now, increasingly it consists of things like fat jokes.

For example 2.5 men was much more comedy mainstream.

derobert

It lost to Sunday Night Football (which is American football, the one with the oblong ball which you carry, not kick)

Faheem Mitha

Well, still is.

At one point it had a Physics consultant, who was an actual physicist. Who was probably fired a long time ago.

derobert

Hah, sounds like I should start from S1E1 then when I try it.

And not a current one

Faheem Mitha

10:22 PM

@derobert Probably. The first few seasons are clearly the best.

you could try the staircase implementation. that's in the third season, and is about how leonard first met sheldon. though you probably won't get much out of it if that is the first thing you watch.

That episode is about as good as it gets, imo. Though of course it depends on context for much of its effect.

derobert

If the first season is good, then might as well start there. There are some shows where the first season is best avoided..

Faheem Mitha

@derobert Sure. Though for the record, I wouldn't recommend anyone to take time out his/her life to watch tv. it's the sort of thing one should do if one can't find anything better to do.

Patrick

if one can't find anything better to do they should play with unix/linux!

derobert

Or start a systemd flame war! That's popular as of late.

Faheem Mitha

@Patrick I was going to suggest they go dancing. If I was in North America, that is what I would do.

Braiam

10:27 PM

emacs is better than vim

derobert

@FaheemMitha That's an odd thing to have to visit North America to do...

Faheem Mitha

As a way of spending time, it is about 10,000 times better than watching tv. Playing with Unix is also a worthy alternative, granted.

Braiam

btw, @derobert @FaheemMitha is by timeslot, you see in the headings of the table

Faheem Mitha

@derobert Not at all.

I didn't suggest one would have to visit NA to do so. Just that if I was there, that is what I would be do. Logistics permitting, of course.

Patrick

How is dancing in North America different?

Faheem Mitha

10:29 PM

@Patrick Different from what?

derobert

@Braiam Nah, if you check the citation, it's to deadline.com/2014/05/tv-season-series-rankings-2013-full-list-2 ... which clarifies its talking about all of prime-time.

Faheem Mitha

I'm tempted to add a question for the mod election - will you become drunk with power?

Patrick

@FaheemMitha Well you say if you were in North America, that's what you'd do, implying it's not something you would do elsewhere (or at least not everywhere). I'm curious why

Faheem Mitha

@Patrick it is not necessarily an option in other places.

Patrick

@Braiam There is actually an answer to that war that I rarely see.

VI is defined in POSIX

Faheem Mitha

10:31 PM

E.g. India, Pakistan, much of the middle east, probably big chunks of africa.

Maybe China, dunno.

Patrick

@FaheemMitha They're not allowed to dance?

Faheem Mitha

@Patrick Not necessarily. In Saudi Arabia and Pakistan and some of this very religious Islamic countries, that is probably the case.

In say India, sure there is (some) dancing, but if you are a man at least, it is a pretty bad scene.

And of course there are lots of places even in the US where there is simply very little going on because nobody has organised anything.

Braiam

@derobert what is the "prime-time" actually?

Faheem Mitha

@Braiam 8 pm onwards?

Braiam

@FaheemMitha east, central or west? -4, 0, -8?

derobert

10:36 PM

@Braiam 8pm-11pm, sometimes 7-11, depends on exactly who you ask and where you are in the country

Patrick

@FaheemMitha heh. Ok, I follow that rationale. Just as a North American, I don't think what we have is much of anything special.

Faheem Mitha

@Patrick What you have in what respect?

derobert

Got to go. Ride is here.

Patrick

@FaheemMitha A dance scene

derobert

BBL.

Faheem Mitha

10:37 PM

@Braiam good question. I don't know exactly.

@Patrick Ok. Do you dance?

Patrick

@FaheemMitha Not really. I've been to a few clubs and such years ago. But not much more than that

Faheem Mitha

Well, it may not seem that great, but it is a lot better than many other places. For example, in India if you go to a dance the girls won't dance with you. That is not generally an issue in the US for example. Plus the dance options are much fewer in India. And the venues tend to suck. Very small.

@Patrick if you ever try to learn to dance seriously, I recommend West Coast Swing.

Gilles

Who here is called Michael? We need a second one to balance Caleb and Caleb!

Faheem Mitha

I'm confused. What is this about two calebs?

Gilles

@FaheemMitha read the comment on Caleb's nomination

@Caleb What is your stance on the destruction of alien planets? (Or is it the alien destruction of planets? I was never sure.)

Faheem Mitha

10:43 PM

@Gilles I did. I didn't understand it.

Gilles