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1:31 AM
AAAAH
guess whose talk on Arch GNU/Linux got accepted for LinuxFest Northwest??
 
slm
nice
 
slm
2:04 AM
> Geek Lifestyle
 
2:28 AM
yeah. I wasn't sure what to put it in
I didn't want to put it in the newbie track, given Arch's target audience
 
slm
yeah that seems like the right place, just made me laugh when I saw it, now it's a "lifestyle"
 
 
1 hour later…
3:44 AM
haha I know
rolling release is
 
... debian
:)
 
4:17 AM
@Braiam yeah, to each their own of course, but personally I can't stand Debian
 
@strugee gnome-core the next time ;)
 
slm
4:47 AM
@strugee - what does arch use in place of selinux?
0
Q: Subversion repository on NTFS drive

toiI am trying to use my repos that is located on an NTFS formatted drive. I am dual-booting Windows 8.1 and Arch Linux. I am running subversion 1.8.5 and apache 2.2.26 with SSL. The problem seems to be related to httpd not being able to open the files where the repos are located. This is what is ad...

 
@slm Y U NTFS?
btw, he said that ext4 was just fine...
 
slm
5:04 AM
@Braiam - I have no idea what the hell this guy is doing, just trying to help.
 
wow, I saw terdon ranting about a migration vote D:
note that I'm with Alvar
 
slm
5:23 AM
@Braiam - I answered it
 
I'm about to create the , someone against?
 
slm
what is it?
 
android debug bridge
something to mess up your android device really bad if you are not cautious
 
slm
k
 
5:55 AM
@Braiam hah. this is the difference between Arch and Debian
 
3
A: As a highly experienced professional software developer, I have difficulty getting good answers to questions

Jeff AtwoodCan you provide specific examples? It is difficult to talk about generalities and abstract terms, I find it is helpful to anchor these discussions on real, concrete examples so everyone is clear. http://stackoverflow.com/users/1105562/david-pfx?tab=questions These questions look mostly answered...

is HE back?
 
in Debian you get everything by default when you install "gnome", and you have to install "gnome-core" to get only what you need. in Arch, you get the bare minimum with "gnome" and everything else you get when you install "gnome-extra"
@slm what do you mean?
what's available?
@Braiam or add epic things to it, if you're awesome. \o/
although actually now I'm realizing that's really more fastboot
 
6:18 AM
@strugee if the GNOME install on Arch doesn't make you wonder, "wtf, is this Windows?" then I'd argue you're not getting the true GNOME experience.
2
And I have no idea what you mean by Debian installing a bunch of stuff by default. There are checkboxes in d-i to install a desktop environment if you want... but if you don't want it, don't check them.
Maybe it's installed if you run the installer in "don't ask me questions!" mode
 
@derobert yeah, that's true. I forgot about that haha
that must have been it actually. oops
but the thing with xul-ext-adblock-plus bugged the crap out of me. and the patches, oh god the patches
I mean I want to be clear the fact that you're a Debian user is awesome, I'm a huge fan of Debian as a project, I just have a personal distaste for it on the desktop
@derobert I plugged in an encrypted flash drive and it prompted me for the passphrase and I was really surprised because it took me a minute to realize that that was something that would need to happen automatically for the incompetent user
 
slm
6:36 AM
@strugee - yeah what does arch use?
 
@slm I don't understand the question
do you mean, what's enabled by default (i.e. comes preinstalled)? what's available in the repos? what's recommended? which
 
slm
is there something else that arch uses by default instead of selinux?
 
Arch doesn't use SELinux by default
it's not turned on unless you explicitly do so
if that's what you're asking
pretty much nothing is in Arch by default
no service is turned on unless it is absolutely essential (and I mean essential - think the login daemon), ports are all closed by default, and it comes with basically nothing (not even sudo).
that's the beauty of Arch. nothing is decided for you, ever. you create the system yourself.
 
slm
Check out this awesome diagram I found
0
A: Diagram of Linux kernel vs. performance tool?

slmI came across this diagram which shows exactly this.     In the above you can see where tools such as strace, netstat, etc. interact with the Linux kernel's subsystems. Source: Linux PerfTools References Linux Performance

 
self-answered. nice.
 
slm
6:51 AM
@strugee So then SElinux being enabled wouldn't be that guys prob. then
 
anyone knows how to check what building flags had dbus?
 
7:24 AM
@strugee Not just the incompetent user, but the lazy one too :-/
Though I don't have automount on... too much of a security risk.
(Well, I take that back, I have it on some machines. Depends on how secure each one has to be. E.g., less worried on the media PC at home. But no autorun!)
 
7:39 AM
Watt:~# rpcinfo -d status 1
rpcinfo: Could not delete registration for prog status version 1
ugh, wtf
I'd just restart rpcbind, but it preserves state. I'd just delete it from the state file, but its #*!@*(# binary
Whatever. Delete the state files, restart rpcbind, restart everything NFS related.
Should probably file a bug report :-(
Except I already deleted all the relevant data.
Now that rpcinfo -d works... must have been some corruption.
 
@strugee "Debian installs a lot of things by default for you. It is graphics-oriented: the default network connection daemon is NetworkManager running in GNOME. It installs a desktop environment at installation."
Honestly, this does not seem very accurate. I don't even know what network manager is. maybe you installed some task.
A basic installation does not have much of anything.
 
@FaheemMitha strugee no doubt picked the Desktop Environment task
Either that, or accidentally installed the distro with releases named after obscurely adjectived animals, instead of the one named after toys from a popular series of films.
(sorry!)
 
8:00 AM
@derobert probably the former rather than the latter. I don't think he would have confused Ubuntu with Debian.
@derobert oh, i see you made similar comments above. as any Debian user would, really.
 
@FaheemMitha I'd hope not, but maybe he's not familiar with Toy Story, and could think that a Jaunty Jackalope is one of Woody's friends?
 
@derobert No, don't think so.
The whole Pixar connection is a bit ironical, really. Debian isn't exactly corporate, and Pixar is now part of Disney.
 
And is it just me, or does a Saucy Salamander sound like an exotic food?
 
@derobert They are pretty wacky names. I guess these are all Shuttleworth's brain-children?
I do prefer the Debian ones, certainly.
 
@FaheemMitha No idea who comes up with them.
 
8:04 AM
Plus Pixar's films are (some of the time anyway) quite decent for what they are. Eg. the Incredibles.
 
But Ubuntu is almost over. They started with W, their next release is T.
 
@derobert I imagine Shuttleworth. Maybe with assistance. Maybe he gets a list of suggestions, and picks one. After all, he doesn't have all that much to do. It is not like he does any real work.
 
I mean, they have a U release and a V release left. With their twice-yearly cycle, Ubuntu is done after Spring of next year.
 
@derobert heh. They will probably start over at A.
If they wanted to be imaginative. they might start using the hebrew alphabet or something.
Also Wall-E was not half bad.
 
Who knows. They already have two H releases. The first few were Warty, Hoary, and Breezy... They didn't follow the alphabet before Dapper.
 
8:07 AM
Especially for a US popular film.
@derobert True.
It is true in the installer, it tends to have things like desktop environment checked, and you have to uncheck them, but I think it is trying to be helpful.
Most people presumably want that stuff.
 
I like most of the Pixar films. Toy Story I grew up with... I didn't care that much for Wall-E (well, except the first 20 minutes or so). Haven't seen Brave yet. I seem to recall there being one more film of theirs that I didn't care for ... don't remember which. Would have to check a list of 'em.
 
@derobert The Incredibles is pretty good.
It's interesting to note that Debian was practically invisible before Ubuntu. Apparently people really do be need to have stuff marketed to them.
It seems to have more traction now, probably because of Ubuntu. At least partly.
 
I'm not sure how invisible it was, it was fairly widely used... At least on servers.
But yeah, on desktops it was pretty much unheard of. Of course, so was Linux period.
 
@derobert Well, maybe. But was not talked about it. It was never reviewed.
That changed after Ubuntu. Maybe not right away.
In the 1990s I had heard of Red Hat, but not of Ubuntu.
 
Ubuntu did a lot making Linux on the desktop something people have heard of.
 
8:12 AM
@derobert True.
by the way, that chap got his mpd question answered. don't know if you noticed.
 
It was actually a pretty nice distro to give random people who were currently Windows users, and get them interested... At least until recently.
Between GNOME 3, Unity, Mir, ...
 
@derobert Maybe. I never tried it. At least for myself.
I've got vague memories of installing it for other people.
@derobert when did you start using Debian?
 
@FaheemMitha A while ago. I think it was sometime around 2000, after dumping RedHat.
 
@derobert Summer 2001 for me.
Remember it quite well.
I had been planning it for at least a year before that, but I was quite busy.
 
8:34 AM
what site is the frying pan attached to?
 
8:49 AM
@slm link?
@FaheemMitha the default installation parameters install a desktop environment, but yeah I was probably wrong about this. NetworkManager is, you guessed it, a daemon to manage network connections. it's not bad but it is more complicated than other solutions.
@derobert I got the ones from the films (thank god). but mine wasn't named after a toy...
@FaheemMitha presumably you meant Debian? Ubuntu was released in 2004.
 
@strugee I meant Debian, yes.
@strugee The standard install provides some option, but they are pre-enabled / pre-checked. You should uncheck them if you don't want 'em.
The standard desktop environment task which is pre-checked does install a boat-load of stuff, but lots of people can't be bothered to select packages manually. Hence Debian tries to be helpful here, and tries to give you a functioning environment out of the box.
If you don't know what you are doing, selected packages by hand can be confusing and difficult.
I imagine.
I was always into Free Software from the first moment I saw it. I had this curious feeling of coming home, though at the time i knew little about it. I never felt out of my depth.
 
9:25 AM
<3 free software
@slm I only just saw that diagram. that's awesome.
 
 
6 hours later…
3:19 PM
Either xkcd is getting more obscure, or I am getting more stupid. C.f.
Then there is this one -> xkcd.com/1202
 
3:36 PM
You mean the comedy value of having a time that goes back in time to switch itself off?
Sometimes the xkcd cartoons can be quite uncanny - like they are reading my mind. This is definitely not one of them.
This one is kind of funny, and kinda on-topic here. xkcd.com/1209
I've never seen an interrobang in LaTeX
 
3:55 PM
Sorry, wrong channel.
 
4:22 PM
@FaheemMitha I think the joke is that the time machine left him right back where he started from
 
@terdon Right. That was explained to me in the tex.sx channel.
 
You know explainxkcd.com ?
 
@terdon Johannes on tex.sx chat just mentioned it to me. I had probably come across it before, but it was not in my mind.
Some of those xkcd cartoons are quite elaborate. This one, for example, completely baffled me.
I got the wrinkle in time reference immediately, but had no idea about the rest of it.
as it turns out the wrinkle reference isn't central to the point of the cartoon, such as it is.
 
4:48 PM
@FaheemMitha wrinkle in time? You mean the Nesbit book? What reference? It seems to be a Dr Who joke.
Not nesbit, L'Engle, damn, it's been a while since I read that.
Yeah, OK, I had to read the explanation too. :)
 
O_O
xkcd is too advanced for this room?
 
5:04 PM
@terdon Yes, the famous L'Engle book. I thought that was something all Americans read as children. :-)
 
slm
@terdon - useful diagram I found
19
A: Diagram of Linux kernel vs. performance tools?

slmI came across this diagram which shows exactly this.     In the above you can see where tools such as strace, netstat, etc. interact with the Linux kernel's subsystems. I like this diagram because it succinctly shows where each tool latches on to the Linux kernel, which can be extremely helpful...

 
@slm yeah, s'great! Already upvoted :)
@FaheemMitha unfortunately it's not. I happen to have read it but it's not as well known as it should be.
 
@terdon It is a combo Dr Who, Abott and Costello and Wrinkle in Time joke
 
That was one of my first, if not my very first, SF book.
 
slm
Wasn't sure if you saw it, found it last night, wish I thought to draw it, will be useful for newbies, and us...
 
5:05 PM
@slm It's great!
@FaheemMitha yeah, I read the explainxkcd page on it
 
@terdon Ah. I had already read it when I was 10 or so.
 
@FaheemMitha same here, I think my father read it to me (might have been my older sister) I was definitely a small child at any rate.
 
slm
You guys remember how to do this in top?
2
Q: top: How to freeze current task order?

Hauke LagingI believe I have read some time ago how you can make top stop sorting the tasks so that they stay in the same line (easier to read) but still get updates for their values (in contrast to simply stopping the screen refresh by pressing e.g. k or r). Now I tried to find this info in both the online...

 
Apparently it is still enough in my head that I recognized the reference immediately, including the relatively obscure Aunt Beast one. Curious how these things stay with you. I once impressed the hell out of some people by describing in detail the plot of a Dr. Dolittle book I had not read for many years.
@terdon Ok. I kind of thought it was an American classic. Like To Kill a Mockingbird, but with aliens and evil bodiless brains.
 
:)
@slm no, I was reading that and I wish I did know
 
5:09 PM
Anyone tried this strawberry pi thing? apparently debian has a port
 
slm
I remember this coming up but top is a pain to search for through old answers
Wait wrong thing, we use strawberry perl
 
@slm huh?
strawberry perl?
 
slm
windows port of perl
 
sounds like a fruit drink
@slm ok
 
O.o
they are changing meta.*.stackexchange.com scheme to *.meta.stackexchange.com
 
5:17 PM
@Braiam that is the scheme to uniformize meta?
 
@Braiam FINALLY!
@FaheemMitha no, Stack Overflow is getting its own meta and meta.se will now just be the global meta for the network
 
@terdon That's what I meant.
before the SO meta was special. Doubled as the network meta, right?
 
yeah
 
5:49 PM
one day people will be writing theses on xkcd cartoons.
 
lol:
1
Q: Hidden cache upstart folder getting too large

Luca FiaschiUnder my user an hidden system folder .cache/upstart is getting insanely large - 99G. Does anybody knows what is this folder and why it may get so large ?

Yes, because you're using a distro that chose upstart...
 
@terdon naughty
Add that as a comment. I dare you.
 
6:45 PM
@terdon but that's unrelated. The change to *.meta.stackexchange.com is for https
 
6:58 PM
@Gilles Ok
@Gilles What are they doing with https?
 
@FaheemMitha planning to support it
and you can't write “this certificate is valid for meta.*.stackexchange.com” or “this certificate is valid for *.*.stackexchange.com” with major browsers
but you can write “this certificate is valid for *.meta.stackexchange.com
 
@Gilles yes, I misread
 
@Gilles Why? This is presumably all public stuff.
 
and various questions on MSO and Sec.SE for more details
 
7:22 PM
what was the last line about learning resources?
 
7:43 PM
@Gilles Ok. Thanks.
 
7:55 PM
@Gilles Interesting technical read (though I did not understand much), but doesn't cover the why.
@strugee hi
 
@FaheemMitha the why on the https stuff? search for a post by Thomas Pornin or Tom Leek on Information Security
 
@Gilles Yes. Ok, will do.
This xkcd cartoon is pretty good.
When did SE stop expanding xkcd?
 
@FaheemMitha I think you have to post the HTTP URL, not HTTPS
 
@Gilles I didn't even realise it was https.
Thanks.
I think we can all relate to that.
 
8:11 PM
@FaheemMitha because we don't want to be Man-in-the-Middle attacked.
 
@strugee Oh. In other words, a site posing as SE but not really SE. And that is a real possibility?
Since all the content is presumably public, why would anyone bother?
 
@FaheemMitha to usurp someone's privileges
e.g. use an established user's account to post spam
or malware
 
@Gilles I see.
 
8:27 PM
@FaheemMitha not exactly. I was thinking about an attack in which you would inject something into SE pages. e.g. you could inject a bit of JS that opened a WebSocket to a remote server, and then evaluated whatever it was fed as JS
 
@strugee Ok.
 
 
2 hours later…
10:04 PM
#*@#(! it, better hurry up my plans to steal JonSkeet's account before they get this SSL thing working.
 
10:20 PM
@derobert You can have Skeets if I can have yours.
 

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