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00:01
The tweet has a picture of a newspaper article with some pretty bad puns...
Or good puns depending on your perspective I guess, thought y’all might enjoy it
> I stayed up all night to see where the sun went. Then it dawned on me.
> When chemists die they barium.
@SamBC indeed, I delete the msgs after they’re handled, so in case you missed it there’s more info here charcoal-se.org
Anonymous
@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ I certainly don't know how to use tags effectively. Seems to me like a bit of a round-peg-square-hole problem. Tags were designed for SO, and we're reusing the SO software, so all the other sites have them too and they work the same way everywhere. That doesn't mean they're equally useful for all topics, though.
Anonymous
For natural language sites, I think a more hierarchical tag system might be better.
Anonymous
00:17
That is, something closer to categories than tags.
Anonymous
We're stuck with what we've got, though, and at this point it'd be pretty hard to change the massive library of existing questions, so even if we had a choice, I'm not sure if it would be feasible to switch to another system.
@snailboat I would be nice if we had an AI smart enough to compare a new question to what has gone before and suggest relevant tags. Unfortunately with our data set, it would always suggest grammar...
00:53
lol
Anonymous
01:41
Sometimes you can't tag a question accurately unless you know the answer. If a question is about something, but the OP has no idea what that something is, not knowing that can be 90% of the problem.
Anonymous
Also, there's a huge mismatch between the various modern analyses of English and the analyses of centuries past much of the ELL user base clings to, and with that mismatch comes a huge terminological problem.
Anonymous
Even modern linguists often use different terms to describe the same things. Lump in various outdated analyses, and we've got a smorgasbord of terminology to choose from.
Anonymous
Worse, we often describe entirely different things with the same terms.
Anonymous
It's all a mess, but a mess is all you'll get in a crowdsourced Q&A environment.
Anonymous
I believe in ELL, but we pretty much have to live with the mess.
Anonymous
01:46
It's okay, because we can help people anyway.
Anonymous
It's not ideal, but it's okay.
Anonymous
If you want something that's comprehensive and self-consistent, you pretty much have to go out and write a book.
@snailboat we shouldn’t expect people to tag their questions perfectly. I’m reluctant to get rid of grammar because it’s an easy way to find something that needs better tags. I do think the tags they choose if they try can sometimes help us understand their question better though
Anonymous
@ColleenV When we were all trying to retag , I found there were questions where it was really difficult to pick something more specific.
I don’t think we need comprehensive and consistent. I do find most of the duplicates I locate by refining with tags though
Anonymous
01:50
Also, when the obvious tag is a technical term most people don't know, like "quasi-serial verb constructions" or the like, I've gotten a bit of resistance in the past.
Anonymous
@ColleenV Yeah, our goal is to help people. It's okay that we're a bit all over the place.
I think we need a more consistent understanding of what tags are for, not necessarily consistent tags
I’m fine with technical tags, so long as they aren’t so specific they only apply to one question
I have trouble applying them though
Anonymous
In the past, sometimes I'd add them and people would get annoyed and think, "What is this? Can't we just use plain English?" and then they'd remove them from all the questions.
Anonymous
I haven't added many technical terms as tags to the site lately.
Ugh, tags aren’t for the people asking really
They’re for the people answering to find questions of interest and only secondarily for askers to search (at least on ELL)
Anonymous
01:54
Sometimes if I don't have much time, I think, "If I add a tag with this specific term, it'll let people know what the question is about, and then they can search for articles on that topic and find the answer".
Anonymous
It might not be the primary purpose of tagging, but I think it ends up helping sometimes with XY problems.
Or maybe some tags are for askers and some for answerers
Yeah, that too. I think it helps populate the “related” sidebar as well
If we can get them tagged properly
Tags are for grouping in my mind
Anonymous
I don't have a problem with single-use tags, as long as I can imagine questions coming up in the future which will use that tag as well.
Anonymous
Some of the more esoteric topics might only have one or two questions at first.
Anonymous
They can still be useful for grouping in the long term.
01:57
Yes, as long as they group in a meaningful way
I got rid of the “of” tag because I think there are too many different questions
But I feel like the “so” tag is OK
Maybe that’s not entirely consistent though
Often questions “about word” aren’t really about that word at all
 
2 hours later…
Anonymous
03:45
I’m not a huge fan of those tags, but I’m not really against them, either. I think several were made simply to get hats, though, and not for any really constructive purpose.
Anonymous
The one thing that’s nice about those tags is that they make up for a flaw in the site search. It’s hard to search for questions that mention a function word rather than questions that use a function word, and if it’s stopworded you can’t search for either!
07:22
I am not a fan of tags, because I think what we tag a post with seems quite arbitrary.
 
4 hours later…
11:05
Word of the day: vocal fry (a person whose voice resembles that of Stephen Fry)
 
3 hours later…
14:03
I often add tags that I can only identify as appropriate because I know the answer. It's the nature of the beast on this SE. They're still useful. However, there are probably some tags (or possible tags) that are more useful for questioners.
@CowperKettle That feels like something from Uxbridge English Dictionary
 
2 hours later…
16:21
ell.stackexchange.com/a/197922/3395 – there's a comment underneath left by J. Bassford saying the answer is wrong. How can native speakers possibly disagree on things like these I wonder.
(There's also another commenter saying the answer's right.)
Also, seeing that question I don't regret dropping enquirer from my active vocabulary.
16:40
@SamBC (0:
Hm, then again... my overusing it did wring any leftover pretentiousness out of it, I think.
@ColleenV Funny!
@userr2684291 Firstly, it is hard to tell who is a native speaker and who is not. Secondly, there are native speakers of different dialects. Thirdly, articles are very complicated, which is why native speakers can disagree on articles.
@Jasper I think all three of them are native speakers of English, and as far as articles go, there shouldn't be any difference with respect to dialects that I'm aware of.
@userr2684291 Aha. Then refer to my "thirdly".
The other thing that is very hard in English is punctuation.
16:57
That can be learned, though.
I believe all things can be learned, but only if we study all 1800 pages of CGEL first.
Right...
I just looked, and there's around 40 pages dedicated to punctuation in CGEL. It can't possibly be very dependent on the other ... 1800 pages.
17:17
@userr2684291 It doesn't help that the phrasing in the question is utterly unlike anything any native speaker would ever say.
It is very interesting that I provided an answer and got 1 vote, and another user provided a very similar answer and got 6 votes.
@Jasper "So runs the round of life from hour to hour" (Tennyson)
@CowperKettle I read the two answers. Of course, they are different, but they are essentially the same. Maybe you wanna read them too.
17:32
@Jasper No, I'm editing a psychiatry website
Trying to register it on Google and Yandex
> Imagine you are walking on a narrow path and someone is walking slowly in front of you. You might want to overtake him...
No, I don't.
–1
Of course, there are many situations where you wanna move past someone.
I just give one situation for illustration.
I do not see how the other answer, posted a few minutes after mine, is significantly better or different.
Yeah, I'm not sure either.
Of course, there are several differences. I can list all of them. But they are not real differences.
I am not complaining, of course.
Eventually, this account will be deleted just like the other 9000 accounts, LOL.
It is just something amusing, that is all.
Well, we'd have to check but maybe their answer had had a couple of upvotes already, and when the HNQ squad arrived it was already over.
17:40
It was 2-1 at first. Then it became 6-1.
The question isn't really interesting so they all just upvoted the one with the most votes and left.
Without even bothering to upvote the question.
The question doesn't really deserve an upvote. Googling move past meaning brings up a number of related websites.
But whatevs.
 
2 hours later…
19:53
@userr2684291 I left a comment - they disagree because they’re arguing over something a native speaker would be unlikely to say. They don’t intuitively know what’s right, so they’re applying rules when they should be correcting the sentence. But then it would be proofreading instead of a question on articles.
Word of the eve: transcellular transport
 
2 hours later…
Anonymous
21:39
“Can I ask one more question?”
@snailboat But then they will argue about “can” and “may” :)
Anonymous
They can do that if they like.
Anonymous
21:54
All English modal auxiliaries are polysemous.
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