Language Overflow

Mike

03:19

Hi, I am working on a report and appreciate that if you could let me know my paragraph is clear and correct:

Due to difficulty in obtaining survey information from inside of the culvert, the culvert define as 2 separate box culvert with minimum slope of 1% and a drop pit in between.

Thanks.

Catija

Hi @Mike Is that the complete sentence? Because it's not a sentence. Where's your verb?

Mike

@Catija , Good point I changed it to this :Due to difficulty in obtaining survey information from inside of the culvert, the culvert has been defined as 2 separate box culvert with minimum slope of 1% and a drop pit in between.

Catija

03:36

Due to difficulty [in] obtaining survey information from inside the culvert, the culvert has been defined as two separate box culverts with a minimum slope of 1% and a drop pit in between. - check your style guide regarding writing percentages. Most require them to be written out (one percent). The "in" isn't necessary. It's not wrong, I think, but extra.

yubraj

04:45

Hi everyone! Nice to meet you after a long time!

V.V.

Hi!

yubraj

[email protected]. how are you?

V.V.

Has your school started? Fine, thanks, hope you are too

yubraj

Well, my school means?

V.V.

I thought it was your job, no?

yubraj

04:50

Yes, I'm teaching in a school.

V.V.

Do you have summer holidays?

yubraj

Yes I had but only for short times. That has finished now.

V.V.

I mean our school year usually starts on the first of September. And yours?

yubraj

Our is according to Bikram sambat calander. English date is at mid April

V.V.

Very interesting

So schoolchildren study in summer. Correct? Or some misunderstanding?

yubraj

05:06

Yes, they do study in summer too

I was checking their monthly test paper...

CowperKettle

Barmecidal curriculum

yubraj

Is this sentene correct: There are some seeds of maize at my home.

Or in my home?

@vv

V.V.

09:23

@yubraj in my house.

Or I have some seeds at home.

Home isn't a building.

Man_From_India

> College move-in day will be the culmination of wrestling with those demons of growing up, a chance to say goodbye and to embrace the magic of new beginnings.

Generally demons has a negative connotation, is it saying that the bad side of growing up here?

userr2684291

10:16

@Man_From_India Yes.

Man_From_India

10:42

Thanks :-)

@V.V. Damkerng T's postal address must be with ELL stackexchange. Remember, when ELL was offering tshirts we had to leave our addresses there?

But don't know who to contact to to get that address. Mmmm I think even if we can find out the person to contact, he is sure not to reveal the information.

If the address was available, we could send a letter to his address.

Ahmed

11:25

@V.V. But home is a dwelling place, hence it can be a property or a building I am sure.

From Wikipedia "... It is often a house, apartment, or other building..."

Jim Reynolds

@Mike Your sentence can be improved

@M.A.R. Hmm... I haven't read back far, but if Dam disappeared without announcement, it's certainly concerning. I have an email address for him. I'll write, but it's hard to imagine a circumstance where he'd answer an email but no appear here.

user62015

12:33

@JimReynolds @Catija @snailplane @skullpatrol @M.A.R. Could you please help me with this question.

Rajesh could not complete his paper because he had a headache.

A. The paper of Rajesh could not be completed by him because he had a headache.
B. The paper could not be completed by Rajesh because he had a headache.
C. Rajesh’s paper could not be completed because he had a headache.
D. Rajesh’s paper would not be completed because he had a headache.

Lawrence

13:18

@user62015 B mirrors the original by specifying the person who could not complete the paper, but C sounds more fluent to me.

Hi @V.V.

Hi @Jim!

@M.A.R. Sorry to hear that you've been unwell. Glad you're still with us.

V.V.

Hi! Almost no connection, sorry!

Lawrence

@V.V. What is the bubble?

V.V.

13:33

It's Sunday! Hope you are fine.

Lawrence

@JimReynolds According to the stats, it's been 111 days since he was last seen, with his last message posted 3 days prior. I think all the regulars are concerned. If you can reach him, please do. Hope he's ok, regardless of whether he's coming back to ELL/LO.

@V.V. Still alive. :)

It's almost like the old group back together for a bit.

V.V.

Man from India wrote to Dam, but no reply followed

Lawrence

Thanks; no need for @Jim to email him separately, then. It's been about 3-4 months now since he left. Whether it's an expedition, misadventure or personal choice, we're all just guessing about his absence. We wish him well, but we might never know what happened.

@yubraj You have some corn kernels at home. Or alternatively, you have some corn kernels in your house.

Both at home and in (one's) house are idiomatic.

yubraj

14:02

@vv@Lawrence Thanks....

But,can't I say "in my home or at my home" ? Why ?

Lawrence

@yubraj You could, but to my ear it sounds a bit less fluent (or perhaps the term is marked) than at home. Give me a moment to see if I can explain this any better.

Have a look at user62015's multiple-choice question above. Version B is perfectly grammatical, but it doesn't sound as good as either the original or version C. The phrase by Rajesh 'sticks out', if you know what I mean.

(Does that help?)

yubraj

Nods...

I'm gonna open the link

Lawrence

14:17

Version B is in the passive voice, a construct that typically drops the actor (subject, whatever). Since it mentions the actor, it might as well not use the passive voice.

yubraj

Yes....I got it. But what about verion D? It conveys the different meaning, doesn't it?

Lawrence

With at home, the word my is assumed. Putting it 'back' produces an analogous effect to adding the actor to a passive construct. It makes the word my stand out. But since your sentence doesn't appear to require putting an emphasis on my, the emphasis sounds a little odd.

yubraj

Nods....

Lawrence

@yubraj The original has could not, whereas D has would not. These aren't quite the same. Since C is identical to D except for the matching could not, C is closer to the original than D.

yubraj

I find D odd to understand

Lawrence

14:24

@yubraj Yes, D conveys a different meaning. It means that Rajesh was unwilling to complete his paper. Alternatively, it is a prediction (subjunctive?) about Rajesh's (lack of) completion.

yubraj

Do you mean...He wanted to complete and would be completed the paper but he had a headache

Mixed conditional

Lawrence

@yubraj Oops, I've re-read D. The 'unwilling' interpretation is very weak there. D is a prediction that because of the headache, the paper would be left uncompleted.

It doesn't say anything about whether Rajesh could or wanted to complete the paper - perhaps he was able to, or perhaps he wasn't; perhaps he wanted to, or perhaps he didn't. Regardless, the prediction is that the paper wouldn't be complete.

yubraj

Yes yes I got it now

Lawrence

Yay. :)

Time to sign off. Hope to catch you all around again some time. Bye!

yubraj

Oh..really. How quickly!

Hope you too...

0

A: my answer,efforts happened or not happened

Regardless of their phrasing, you should always respond with the correct phrase. Yes, it is correct or No, it is not correct (or incorrect). And make sure they are paying attention when you do. You might also explain that "happened" only indicates a result (they answered a question), ...

@Lawrence Thank you very much.

Where is @Demkernze these days? I haven't seen him online.I am missing him

Anonymous

14:46

We don't know :-(

userr2684291

@yubraj This isn't really something that belongs on ELL, but as the linked answer says, the straightforward approach is to tell them the correct way to say it.

yubraj

@userr2684291 Nods..

userr2684291

Is there any difference between way of saying and way to say in normal speech?

Anonymous

Um, just repeating the two phrases to myself in my head I can't think of one.

Jim Reynolds

hi @snailplane

userr2684291

14:57

Okay then.

Anonymous

Good morning, @JimReynolds! Nice to see you back 'round these parts :-)

Jim Reynolds

Thanks. Nice to see you, too.

Anonymous

We've had a heat wave here, actually. It was 43°C yesterday.

Jim Reynolds

I've heard from some friends in Santa Cruz, and family up in Mendocino County

Anonymous

Oh, yeah. Even San Francisco got warm! An all-time high there.

Jim Reynolds

15:04

Especially up north, on the coast. Freaky.

Anonymous

Wonder if it's related to the hurricane somehow.

Anonymous

I'm kinda weather-ignorant.

Jim Reynolds

So strange about Dam. I realize it's been a long time, though

I found his FB and it hasn't had activity since 2111. There's one friend on it, and I sent that person an inquiry. I don't know if that's already been done.

Anonymous

2111. I didn't know Damkerng was a time traveler!

Jim Reynolds

Oops.

I meant 1111

Anonymous

15:07

1111. I didn't know Damkerng was a time traveler with a taste for repdigits!

Jim Reynolds

So, we should be encouraged. He has 90 or so year hibernation periods.

Anonymous

Note to self: Build time machine, find Damkerng on November 11, 1111 at 11:11am.

Jim Reynolds

I'm so curious about this:

1

Q: Why is there no article in "We are Family"?

Sister Sledge - We Are Family - YouTube I've searched on YouTube a song named 'We are Family' Why use the sentence without an article 'a' or 'the'?

But one thought I have is to use my curiosity to read CGEL on nouns

Anonymous

@JimReynolds +1, but I think the "zero article" is an unnecessary abstraction. It's simpler just to say there isn't an article there.

Anonymous

The "zero article" is a theoretical word with no phonetic realization which is not normally written down, and yet fills up the determiner slot in a noun phrase.

Jim Reynolds

15:10

OK. Because family is not countable, abstract?

Anonymous

For discussion, see Leszek Berezowski's The Myth of the Zero Article.

Jim Reynolds

Cool. I will.

Anonymous

@JimReynolds Well, I think you've got the right idea. Family isn't countable, so you don't need an article.

Anonymous

That is, it's not countable in that particular use.

Anonymous

macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/american/family_1

Jim Reynolds

15:12

OK. And it's not an adjective!

Anonymous

Doesn't make sense for it to be an adjective. It can appear in subject position, it can take adjectival but not adverbial modification, etc.

Anonymous

I'm assuming you were unaware of the theoretical baggage that comes with the "zero article" term.

Jim Reynolds

Right. Coincidentally, I had just been involved in an order of attributive adjective discussion a few days ago, which impelled me to read most of CGEL's chapter on adjectives and adverbs.

Anonymous

Also:

Jim Reynolds

I am ignorant of that issue. Yes.

Anonymous

15:14

> We had Christmas lunch in the company of family and friends.

Anonymous

> He’s like one of the family.

Anonymous

Not particularly adjective-y, now is it?

Jim Reynolds

Right

Anonymous

Those examples are taken straight from Macmillan.

Anonymous

You can link to and quote them in your answer if you want to demonstrate that it is a noun and not an adjective.

Anonymous

15:14

Up to you, of course.

Jim Reynolds

Not even adjective-ish. OK. Maybe I will.

Anonymous

This is the dictionary link again: macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/american/family_1

Jim Reynolds

Thanks

CowperKettle

@snailplane It will be +13°C here tomorrow

Jim Reynolds

CGEL 2.4.1 (p. 536) Adjectives vs nouns:

Phrases with a noun as non-fused head can occur as subject, object, or predicative complement can appear in clause structure.

What does non-fused mean? (Though, again, I will use that to motivate me to read the noun chapter!)

Hello Cowp!

CowperKettle

15:18

Craniosynostosis

Craniosynostosis (from cranio, cranium; + syn, together; + ostosis relating to bone) is a condition in which one or more of the fibrous sutures in an infant (very young) skull prematurely fuses by turning into bone (ossification), thereby changing the growth pattern of the skull. Because the skull cannot expand perpendicular to the fused suture, it compensates by growing more in the direction parallel to the closed sutures. Sometimes the resulting growth pattern provides the necessary space for the growing brain, but results in an abnormal head shape and abnormal facial features. In cases in which...

I googled for "fused head" and found this.

Jim Reynolds

Oops. I need to finish cooking my late dinner!

CowperKettle

I need to finish translating my long text.

userr2684291

@snailplane I feel that be family is some kind of phrase or idiom, and my instinct is similar to that of TRomano's.

Anonymous

Well, he didn't think his answer through.

Anonymous

@JimReynolds Um, functional fusion is a theoretical concept that is more or less unique to CGEL. The idea is that one constituent has multiple functions.

Anonymous

15:25

For example, in the coordination of noun phrases The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly, a traditional analysis might be that a head noun is omitted, something like The Good ~~People~~, the Bad ~~People~~, and the Ugly ~~People~~. But in H&P's framework, the adjectives Good, Bad, and Ugly are not only attributive modifiers but also the heads of the noun phrases. The modifier and head functions are "fused" into one, so they call them fused modifier–heads.

Anonymous

(A much poorer analysis would say that Good, Bad, and Ugly are nominalized adjectives.)

userr2684291

3

Q: Why isn't there an article in "if you're not family"?

[Fred] “Merry Christmans!” [George] "Hey, look –– Harry's got a Weasley sweater, too!" Fred and George were wearing blue sweaters, one with a large yellow F on it, the other a G. "Harry's is better than ours, though," said Fred, holding up Harry's sweater. "She [my mother] ob...

articles zero-article

Anonymous

Hmm. Nope.

userr2684291

):

CowperKettle

I'm amazed at how you remember all this theory. I tend to forget everything..

Anonymous

15:27

Erm, well, you know what they say? Use it or lose it? I use the theory a little bit . . .

CowperKettle

I just came across lysine protease and translated it as such, but then did a search and realized that back in October, when I still remembered chemistry, I managed to understand that it's actually Lys-C endoproteinase. But today I could not understand the stuff I wrote in October. I tend to forget everything.

Anonymous

I'm not opposed to saying that be family has some non-compositional meaning. I think it does. But I don't think that makes family an adjective.

Anonymous

@CowperKettle I have lots and lots of notes. :-)

CowperKettle

I have lots of sheets of Shakespeare sonnets.. no notes..

userr2684291

15:47

@snailplane Meh, I agree.

@snailplane May I ask, how do you pronounce that erm?

Anonymous

Well, erm is a non-rhotic spelling of um, so I shouldn't really type it that way, being a rhotic speaker. But sometimes I do :-)

Anonymous

When I was little, I saw people write er and erm and thought they were pronounced with /r/.

Anonymous

And I sorta copied them, and then the habit stuck.

Anonymous

So in my mind I'm pronouncing them with /r/, even though that's a spelling pronunciation and I know that's not how they're normally pronounced.

userr2684291

(:

Anonymous

15:57

I don't know how many other people do that.

userr2684291

Exactly, and I actually did (and probably still do) the same in that I pronounce it with my version of the rhotic /r/.

Our textbooks were published by British publishers, so that's where I saw it, and I don't remember anyone correcting me when I read it that way out loud.

Anonymous

I had USENET access when I was little, so I probably picked it up there.

CowperKettle

16:18

Wow

I only used mIRC when Internet was expensive.

And I used FidoNet a couple of times

Out of interest

How would you call a line that turns 90 degrees now and then?

I have a large printout of the amino acid sequence of a protein. Some amino acids are connected by colored lines.

To avoid hiding the letters, these lines go in strange paths, turning 90 degrees now and then.

The Russian term is "broken line" (ломаная линия)

I found "zigzag line" on Multitran

But it's not a zigzag.. it's a good wholesome 90 degree turning line

Sometimes making 3 turns there and there

Jim Reynolds

16:39

@snailplane I think I see. The rich are getting richer. Rich is a fused head.

userr2684291

I flagged the last question I linked here as the duplicate of the one Jim Reynolds answered because their answer has the most upvotes and I now believe is correct.

I can't believe I once looked forward to editing people's posts without limits.

as *a duplicate

CowperKettle

18:06

6

Q: My cat seems to dislike the idea of morning walk. Should I continue?

I recent days I am trying to develop a habit in my cat of morning walk with me. It is to be noted that letting the cat alone outside to roam independently is not an option. Here there are lots of stray dogs who attack cats. She will be dead within half an hour. Also I live in a small 1BHK apar...

cats health exercise

I never tried walking a cat

M.A.R.

18:34

@Lawrence Thank you!

I'm getting pretty used to it now

Life goes on

userr2684291

"For adult cats, it's a everyone-for-themselves world." Such a ruthless, dog-eat-dog world the cat has to survive in...

That should be an everyone-..., anyway.

M.A.R.

@userr2684291 can you imagine animals evolving to become smarter, eventually to be as smart as early homosapiens?

Dawn of the Planet of the Kitties

userr2684291

@M.A.R. If I'd had it my way, dolphins and mushroom colonies would've been the dominant species. I think we're fortunate to be so comparatively organized for all our complexity.

@M.A.R. But yeah, that isn't beyond the reach of my imagination.

userr2684291

19:15

Word of the day: akimbo

When I was maybe 6 I played this silly game called Akimbo on my (parents') laptop; I thought it just meant some kind of Japanese fighter (or the name of the fighter in the game), but this word has Germanic roots.

Transcript for