Language Overflow

Feeds

00:56

0

Q: Merge request for two similar questions

Can we merge this question: Two-year program or Two-years program? With this question here: Why is letter not plural in "two letter words"? The first question has one upvote,and the second nine. The first has two three-line answers. The second has four substantial developed answers. The ...

Anonymous

01:39

@Catija I've been asking for this for forever!

Anonymous

It is important to choose the correct close reason. Questions aren't closed immediately - they are put on hold so that the author can take action to bring them on-topic. If you choose the wrong reason, the author doesn't know the appropriate steps to take. It would be like banning someone for plagiarism when the real reason they were banned was for sock puppetry. How could someone fix their behavior if they don't know the real reason? We must always keep the language barrier in mind here and not assume that it's clear to the author what they need to do to improve their question. — ColleenV ♦ yesterday

Anonymous

Yes, yes, yes! We have a history of closing things with the wrong close reasons on ELL.

4

Anonymous

Certain users, who shall remain nameless, have even said to me in the past they think it's more important to close bad questions to get them off the site, and the reason they pick is really secondary and unimportant to them.

Anonymous

But the idea behind putting questions on hold is that we don't think they're really going to be answerable in their current state (or we think they're so off-topic that an answer wouldn't be appropriate on this site).

Anonymous

@ColleenV Thank you for writing that comment, I can't upvote it enough :-)

ColleenV

03:20

@snailplane You're welcome :) It's always nice to know that someone else agrees.

M.A.R.

05:29

@ColleenV IKR, it seems after the election you and snail were elected, meta.ELL is no longer feeling apathetic to moderation

Jude Niroshan

06:26

Greetings Everyone!

@DamkerngT. are you available?

I need some help

SBM

08:36

I feel like I'm having doubts

M.A.R.

08:56

@SBM I feel like you're having doubts

SBM

@M.A.R. I can't quite figure out what a good construct would be for an introductory sentence to a short story

M.A.R.

@SBM Other than "once upon a time"?

Not redundant, but out of place

Why do you need to have a specific start?

If you've written the story already, I don't see why you should add superfluous stuff to it

SBM

@M.A.R. Yes, I guess building up the suspense would be a good idea but if it'd be too much then it becomes troublesome for the reader. No, I haven't written it out yet.

M.A.R.

Well, I'm missing a lot of context here

Is this an exercise?

SBM

Not quite. It's just to avoid the boredom.

M.A.R.

09:07

So, what's the story about?

SBM

It's about how a group trying to cause chaos in a city were caught in a way like no other

Hanaa

10:11

Hi @DamkerngT. :) In fact, my question was about how natural it is this sentence. “We took the bus back home”.

user178049

11:56

"To say it's entirely wrong, it's debatable".. Can I call this structure a dislocation. Actually, I use it [here](

Here

I thought it was, but my friend said it's wrong because the element at the left should be a noun phrase, not a clause.

userr2684291

@user178049 I don't know what you'd call it, but I'd say To say it's entirely wrong is debatable or It's debatable to say it's entirely wrong.

@Hanaa In reality, you asked about We took the bus back to home.

:>

user178049

12:13

@userr2684291 Hmm.. I'll edit it later :-D

M.A.R.

Dislocation? Nah

user178049

@M.A.R. It must be a noun phrase?

M.A.R.

Well, I suddenly forgot all the terminology, but look up "it-cleft"

user178049

But it really sounds fine to me.

Hanaa

12:58

I would be happy if you helped me with an answer not an investigation. @userr2684291

userr2684291

@user178049 URLs are automagically rendered as hyperlinks (i.e., they become clickable) – so if it's easier for you, you don't have to use the [link text](URL) formula; although by eschewing it, you incontrovertibly lose some of the compactness the link text would've provided. On the other hand, you won't have to worry about commas or periods (and some other characters) flanking the link-to-be; they won't be included in the clickable part.

@Hanaa Sometimes an answer entails a reconnaissance.

Araucaria

13:15

0

A: Can I use having in a noun clause?

*The one having a blue pen. (ungrammatical with this meaning) The sentence above would be regarded as ungrammatical by most native speakers. It uses an -ing clause having a blue pen to modify the noun one. This example would be regarded as ungrammatical by most native speakers when used to ...

@userr2684291 Fancy some proofreading? I think I need it! Your input was invaluable yesterday ...

userr2684291

I'll see what I can do.

Araucaria

@userr2684291 Thanks :)

user178049

@userr2684291 Oh, thank you. I haven't been familiar with this chat room, actually.

Araucaria

13:30

@DamkerngT. Hey Dam, I need a short answer to this question:

11

Q: All he had WAS/WERE bruises and cuts

All he had were bruises and cuts. All he had was bruises and cuts. What are the differences between these sentences? Are they both grammatical and, if so, which one is more natural?

subject-verb-agreement cleft-constructions

@DamkerngT. I have to award the bounty within 24 hours. I wasn't an answer that clearly and unequivocally explains that both are perfectly fine and correct. If you agree with me on that point, could you write a short answer - otherwise it will automatically go to a duff answer ...

Anonymous

13:51

@snailplane A bit of joke. I'm feeling that the people who know the grammar of a language very well is rarely a native speaker as that language. As a Chinese I'm often confused about how deep western learners study Chinese and I also see a lot of western people complaining about Asian English learners studying too deep to some extent. — iBug 3 hours ago

Anonymous

Someone help me out here. What is iBug trying to say? I see that it's been upvoted, so it looks like someone understood how it was relevant to the discussion, but it seems like a complete non sequitur to me.

Feeds

3

Q: Prepositional complement (two - part question)

In grammar, a subject complement follows a copular and describes the subject of a clause. Although nouns, pronouns and noun phrases most frequently perform the function, prepositional phrases can also function in the say way. 1) Can a prepositional phrase beginning (or ending) with 'to' follow ...

grammaticality prepositional-phrases subject-complement

user178049

@snailplane I flag it as not constructive.

userr2684291

14:28

Beats me, too. I think they're just telling us about something they find amusing, hence the (somewhat semantically straying) choice of the word joke.

Damkerng T.

15:05

@JudeNiroshan I'm here now. You can ask about anything right away. No need to wait for me. That way, everyone can help you out (if they choose to). :-)

@Hanaa I think We took the bus back home is fine and natural enough. We took the bus home sounds better, IMO.

@Araucaria Man_From_India already came to your rescue! (^_^)

> In formal case the expected verb is were and in the latter case the expected verb is was.

@Man_From_India ~~formal~~ former!

Adding the would be even better, too.

Jude Niroshan

@DamkerngT. Wow! you are here

Damkerng T.

I'm here! (^_^)

@snailplane Maybe they like the joke? :D

Jude Niroshan

15:21

I am going to apply for GSoC-2017

I am in the process of writing my project proposal

Everyone says, project proposal document will decide whether I could participate on the event or not

Therefore, I want to write this document in great care

Damkerng T.

I'm pretty sure that by will decide, they mean the content, the idea, rather than the grammar. :)

Jude Niroshan

nods

This is the project that I'm planning to apply for wiki.openmrs.org/display/projects/…

with 5 lines, it says, what it is all about

Damkerng T.

I'd suggest imitating his style.

No fluff, just stuff.

Jude Niroshan

Okay

Damkerng T.

Highlight important key ideas.

So, I think short sentences plus a few bullet lists would work best.

Jude Niroshan

15:28

This is how I have started so far docs.google.com/document/d/…

Damkerng T.

Use the first paragraph to shortly brief your background, how can you help (e.g., what do you think you're going to do in the project, etc.)

Jude Niroshan

@DamkerngT. ^

I thought to write about my enthusiasm about participating to GSoC and a description about the organization that i'm planning to take a project to work on

Damkerng T.

I think revamping the last two paragraphs, and using bullet lists (with a couple short intro sentences to each list) would work better.

Jude Niroshan

I thought if I mention a introduction to the organization, the readers will know that I have some idea about the organization

Damkerng T.

@JudeNiroshan That's fine. You can add that maybe after the first paragraph.

Araucaria

15:32

@DamkerngT. Yes, I saw thanks! :-)

Jude Niroshan

@DamkerngT. would you be able to show me a one example for a one bullet point? So, I can follow that to other points as well

You can edit the document @DamkerngT.

Damkerng T.

Hmm... after reading it more carefully, it still sounds more like an essay than a proposal.

Jude Niroshan

ohhh :(

Damkerng T.

Try to put yourself in his shoes. He has to read a lot of proposals, right?

So, the more time-effective a proposal is, the better, I'd say.

Jude Niroshan

@DamkerngT. yes

Damkerng T.

15:34

It's fine to write something essay-like about two or three paragraphs.

But if he's like me, he'll surely dash his eyes through the "stuff" in your proposal.

Jude Niroshan

But I agree with you. I need to be precise and elegant

Damkerng T.

And if he can't find one, well... I guess you can guess.

Buff up your "meat". :D

Jude Niroshan

So, can you give me push to start off the document?

:)

Damkerng T.

> Paragraph 1: [my background mini-essay]
> Paragraph 2: [the things I yearn for mini-essay]
> Section A: my technical strong suits
> Section B: what I think I can help in this project
> Paragraph 3: [I hope you'll choose me mini-essay]

How about this outline?

Man_From_India

@DamkerngT. Oh sorry. heading to correct it :-) thanks.

Damkerng T.

15:39

@Man_From_India No problem! :D

Man_From_India

:-)

Jude Niroshan

@DamkerngT. appreciate it. Let me see, how do I start this....

problem what i have always is, the very first sentence to write

because it is important

Damkerng T.

@JudeNiroshan "Just write something" could be a good solution.

If you have a better idea later, you can edit it in any time!

Jude Niroshan

@DamkerngT. wiki.openmrs.org/display/RES/Summer+Of+Code+2017

in that bottom of the page, it says what I must include in the proposal document

Application Requirements & Questions

Damkerng T.

"This proposal must describe in detail how you would plan to approach the project, and must include goals and a draft timeline."

See, that's the most important thing in their minds.

Jude Niroshan

15:44

ohhh, you told this earlier

Damkerng T.

Basically, it's "what I think I can help in this project", but much more specific.

A list or a table or a bullet list is still a good idea.

Jude Niroshan

@DamkerngT. would you please please.... write the very first sentence on behalf of me?

Damkerng T.

You can elaborate on some points below the list/table if you need to. That way it keeps your information tidy.

Jude Niroshan

Damn... this is so hard

Damkerng T.

@JudeNiroshan Very first sentence of what part?

Jude Niroshan

15:46

Paragraph 1: [my background mini-essay]

Damkerng T.

"I’m so excited to apply Google Summer of Code 2017 since the announcement." is not bad at all! :-)

(grammar aside)

Jude Niroshan

But, it seems like... bit odd

Damkerng T.

Nah... I don't know, but I like its authenticity.

Jude Niroshan

Can you show me another way to start off?

Then I can re-think of another nicer way

Damkerng T.

> I'm very glad to learn that [this project name] is part of GSoC 2017. I've followed this project right from the start, and always want to help out if I can.

I like something plain, in case you forgot. :D

Jude Niroshan

15:50

well... this is nice

and it shows that's i am interesting on this particular project :)

Damkerng T.

I guess you're interested in the project! :D

Jude Niroshan

of course... hahaha

should that sentence much suitable for the paragraph of Section B: what I think I can help in this project ?

Damkerng T.

The more important things in mini-essay than wording and grammar, IMO, are your real feelings.

Something you really think, something really happened to you, why does it matter to you, for real.

If they can feel that, you've already won it half-way.

Jude Niroshan

yes. If I could write this in my mother-tongue I could expression what I think accurately. But i'm trying out with my 2nd language

Damkerng T.

@JudeNiroshan You could write about your idea from the 20,000-foot level in the mini-essay, and then get down to the details later in Section B.

Jude Niroshan

15:56

yes. I have to read bit more about that project

Damkerng T.

Oh, have you read this part in the requirements: "You must have made at least one coding contribution to OpenMRS BEFORE submitting your proposal."

?

Jude Niroshan

@DamkerngT. yes!!! :D I have 4 contributions already done :)

my motivation :D

Damkerng T.

Ahh... nice! :D

Okay, I have to o some other things. You can ask others to help, too. Don't forget that. :D

I'm still around. Just ping me if you need me.

See you later.

Jude Niroshan

Thank you. I will write this document tonight and show it tomorrow for you

Feeds

16:17

0

Q: What should you do if an accepted answer is wrong?

Earlier today I read a poorly worded question where the accepted answer is founded on a couple of serious misconceptions, and I feel that it will be misleading to learners. I have not provided a link to it because both question and answer are from new contributors and I don't want to "name and s...

discussion

Alex89

Hello. Good evening to everyone.

Jude Niroshan

Hi :)

M.A.R.

16:48

Hi

It was really weird. I saw a +11, but I didn't get any downvotes. o.o

CowperKettle

\o

M.A.R.

\o

skill patrol

\o

Hanaa

Thanks @DamkerngT.!

Damkerng T.

@Hanaa I hope it helped. :-)

o/

skill patrol

16:55

o/

Damkerng T.

@M.A.R. A post you've downvoted was deleted?

CowperKettle

> If you tell a 3-year-old child the following story of little Maxi, they will most probably not understand: Maxi puts his chocolate on the kitchen table, then goes to play outside. While he is gone, his mother puts the chocolate in the cupboard. Where will Maxi look for his chocolate whenhe comes back?

> A 3-year-old child will not understand why Maxi would be surprised not to find the chocolate on the table where he left it. It is only by the age of 4 years that a child will correctly predict that Maxi will look for his chocolate where he left it and not in the cupboard where it is now.

M.A.R.

@DamkerngT. I haven't downvoted answers on meta.SE lately

Lemme look at my rep tab

Damkerng T.

@CowperKettle Interesting!

CowperKettle

@DamkerngT. Theory Of Mind

2

Theory of mind

Theory of mind (often abbreviated ToM) is the ability to attribute mental states—beliefs, intents, desires, pretending, knowledge, etc.—to oneself and others and to understand that others have beliefs, desires, intentions, and perspectives that are different from one's own. Deficits can occur in people with autism spectrum disorders, schizophrenia, attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, cocaine addiction, as well as alcoholics who have suffered brain damage due to alcohol's neurotoxicity. Although philosophical approaches to this exist, the theory of mind as such is distinct from the philosophy...

Hanaa

17:05

@DamkerngT. Yes, it did :) .

Damkerng T.

Yay! (^_^)

M.A.R.

Oh, found the source of the issue. Not meta.SE, but Chem.

A post was removed, apparently containing two of my <2,000 rep edits

Alex89

Hello, M.A.R. Nice to meet you.

M.A.R.

Hello

12

Q: How to reduce guidance being so dispersed in Meta?

The guidance for newer users is awesome, and probably even sometimes redundant. However, as soon as you get past some arbitrary rep threshold, especially on smaller sites, there's this huge learning curve when you want to learn more about the system, in other words look around a bit. A good port...

discussion meta

This stuff is awesome. Make sure you read it.

Also tangentially related to you @Alex :)

Hanaa

@CowperKettle The theory of mind is to be able to predict what is in people's mind before they say it. For example, to go to your friends' room and take the remote control from the shells before he tells you. This act is due to previous knowledge about its place.

Or he tells you to take the computer before you ask him because he knows what you want when you come.

Alex89

17:15

I wonder if here are penalties for multiple acciunts... I didn't find it in FAQ. Suppose a user creates two accounts. He posts questions from the 1st, submits answers to them from the 2nd and then, again from 1st, he accepts all his answers. So he gains a lot of reputation. Are there any contrameasures?.. I mean some penalties or fines against such behavior.

CowperKettle

@Hanaa yes

M.A.R.

@Alex89 The countermeasures are voting. Mods have a tool called "suspicious voting", which shows users that suspiciously vote for each other really often

Furthermore, users can flag a post of the perpetrator for moderator attention, and tell them to look the voting patterns up and tell Community Managers.

Alex89

and what will moderators do with the violators

do they ban them

M.A.R.

Yep

Alex89

or if someone copies another person's answers... what then

M.A.R.

17:20

A Day in the Penalty Box

Jeff Atwood on April 06, 2009

Are you familiar with the Penalty Box?

The penalty box (sometimes called the sin bin, bad box, or bin) is the area in ice hockey, rugby football and some other sports where a player sits to serve the time of a given penalty, for an offense not severe enough to merit outright expulsion from the contest. Teams are generally not allowed to replace players who have been sent to the penalty box.

It’s not something we looked forward to, but as of tonight, we’re instituting a penalty box on Stack Overflow. …

@Alex89 That's plagiarism, and the Community deals with most of the cases by downvoting and commenting.

However, some people annoyingly keep doing it, and repeat offenders are banned as well.

Alex89

hmmm... thanks, I understood

but is that a temporary ban or a permanent one

M.A.R.

Temporary, with varying ban times

If they keep repeating the behavior, the ban can be as long as a whole year

Alex89

OK, clear

And how do you edit a post if it simply has a small typo or two? I tried to edited such a post, but I got the message that my edit must be at least 6 characters. So I cancelled it.

E. g. 'loving' instead of 'living'. Just one wrong letter. But it could be two or three.

M.A.R.

@Alex89 You don't. You just leave it to users with more than 2,000 rep to edit it, or ping someone in chat to do so

It's also possible to comment and tell the OP to edit

Alex89

17:35

OK. Thanks again.

Jude Niroshan

@M.A.R. nice profile picture :)

CowperKettle

> A recruit at the recruiting station: "I want to serve in the Navy"
- Well.. can you swim?
- What? Why should I be able to swim? Don't you have any ships?

M.A.R.

@JudeNiroshan Thanks. I'm in the "It's awesome. I will keep it forever" phase

Which has happened to, say, all of my avatars?

user62015

17:59

I received your letter this morning or I have received your letter this morning, which one is better one?

user62015

18:31

I received your letter this morning or I have received your letter this morning, which one is better one? @M.A.R. @DamkerngT.

M.A.R.

@user62015 Both of them are correct to my ears

user62015

better?

past or present

M.A.R.

@Dam @Snail would a question about where to use "alternative" and where to use "alternant" be on-topic? I would of course do some dictionary look-ups and stuff

@user62015 Both of them are better, but will be used in different contexts I think

user62015

ok

Please wait. I have a question for

(A) I have received your letter this morning.
(B) I had received your letter this morning.
(C) I received your letter this morning.

Which one will you choose?

It was a question in my exam

I chose past simple

M.A.R.

I guess yeah, that's what they had in mind

Tense questions have a tendency to be stupid

user62015

18:37

Was I right?

M.A.R.

Yep

They consider "this morning" to be a specific temporal location (fancy word for "time")

CowperKettle

Word of the Day: homoscedasticity

user62015

19:08

Bill enjoys reading __________ mystery novels.
a the no article

I chose no artcle but it says the

M.A.R.

19:32

Both 'the' and zero article work

Stupid questions

user62015

Thanks.

userr2684291

19:52

@user62015 No article.

userr2684291

20:08

@M.A.R. Unfortunately, you can't help yourself by making up context – you gotta work with what you have when answering these kinds of questions. And in this case, without additional context, there's nothing that warrants the use of the definite article.

M.A.R.

@userr2684291 True that.

Which is why I was thinking it's a stupid question

If you don't assume context, zero article is better

userr2684291

@user62015 Depends.

@user62015 So, if it's still morning, use the present perfect; otherwise use the past simple.

Damkerng T.

> What does *bank* mean?
a) a financial establishment
b) a store of money
c) the land alongside a river
d) the cushion of a pool table

These test questions are pretty much like that.

Catija

@DamkerngT. Is this "in context"?

M.A.R.

20:23

@DamkerngT. e) no error

Damkerng T.

@Catija No context. Just like in most tests. :-)

userr2684291

@M.A.R. Bank means "no error"?

M.A.R.

@Catija He's just demonstrating how stupid these questions can be

@userr2684291 There's always an option you don't understand o.o

Catija

As someone who plays pool, I've never heard the "cushion of a pool table" called a "bank"--- you can make a "bank" shot... one that bounces off the side rail (the actual term)...

Damkerng T.

Interesting! :D

userr2684291

20:27

@Catija That's where it means "the cushion of a pool table".

Catija

@userr2684291 No, "bank" in that sense is a verb.

userr2684291

@Catija Nah.

Catija

... yes.

If I bank the ball, that's an action.

userr2684291

@Catija That's not how you used it in this sentence, though.

Catija

@userr2684291 That's still not a "cushion of a pool table" it's "a shot that bounces off the rail"... it's an adjective/adverb or whatever, not a noun.

bank != rail -- bank = bounce

userr2684291

20:38

@Catija No. It's a noun modifying the noun shot. In other words, a noun adjunct.

Ugh, I bought the wrong cereal.

Catija

It doesn't really matter how you want to interpret it... the side rail of a pool table is not (in AmE) called "a bank". I've spent three years in an amateur pool league and I've never heard anyone use that term. "Bank" is a verb.

userr2684291

@Catija No. Have you ever thought about the etymology of the verb to bank in that sense, anyway?

Feeds

22:54

-1

Q: Suggesting an edit should not require to change more than 6 letters

I asked a question, then received an awesome answer. There was only one thing wrong with it. The author used "seems" where it's grammatically correct to use "seem". First, I thought about writing a comment and even wrote one, but then I realized that such comments add unnecessary noise and promp...

discussion feature-request bug

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