Language Overflow

Man_From_India

00:32

@yubraj I'm not a teacher, and not very good in Enhlish. But all I can say is be confident and honest. All the best. Wait for others for better suggestions about your opening speech or teaching demo.

Anonymous

01:01

> John had his dishes washed.

Anonymous

Here, have has several interpretations:

Anonymous

① Causative have. In this interpretation, John caused someone else to wash his dishes.

Anonymous

② Adversative have. In this interpretation, someone washed John's dishes for him, but he probably didn't want that to happen.

Anonymous

③ Achievement have. In this interpretation, John has completed the dishwashing.

Anonymous

Not all of these interpretations are equally likely.

Anonymous

01:03

For example, the adversative interpretation seems unlikely here, although it's possible in the right context.

Anonymous

It would be more likely with another sentence:

Anonymous

> I had someone hit my car yesterday.

Anonymous

This could mean you deliberately caused someone to hit your car, but more likely it means that someone hit your car, and you didn't plan it or want it to happen. You were unhappy about it.

Anonymous

The dishes example is from Lakoff 1971.

userr2684291

01:27

Just the other day I was wondering about this. Thanks for the explanation, whoever it's actually for. (:

yubraj

02:14

@Man_From_India could you help me a bit?

@snaiplane

Hi

Help me please

Anonymous

02:28

@userr2684291 Maybe it's for me :-)

Anonymous

Hello!

CowperKettle

02:54

Good morning!

Anonymous

03:26

@Willow It's interesting. They're required by statute not to use the optional comma, but because it creates ambiguity, and the ambiguity is required by law to be resolved in favor of the workers, the sentence is actually unambiguous, but perhaps not the way the lawmakers intended it to be.

Anonymous

So if they wanted it to have the other meaning, they'd have to phrase it differently.

2

Anonymous

On the other hand, I would say this case does not tell us anything about whether the serial comma should be used.

Anonymous

Certainly, sentences can be ambiguous with a serial comma as well.

Anonymous

But maybe it tells us that if we want to communicate something unambiguously, and we can't rely on context to make the distinction clear, we should reword it to avoid the problem.

Stack Exchange

07:23

0

Q: Could smb explain how to get badges Curious, Inquisitive and Socratic?

I don't understand very well how it is possible to ask a question on 5 separate days or more. I can ask a question in 5 minutes or less. Also very confused about what the phrase "positive question record" means. Does it mean that the questions must have votes up? Thanks a lot.

Damkerng T.

08:02

@StackExchange Hmm... nitpicking?

(And why smb?!)

I think if the OP really doesn't get it (which is not like getting it but not being happy with the way it's phrased in English), we should migrate the question to the main site.

CowperKettle

> The aim is to estimate the concentration range, in which the method gives satisfactory “Linearity”, “Accuracy”, and “Precision” parameters.

I dislike these Russian-style commas so much

before "in which"

I think it's a total no-no in English

Damkerng T.

08:36

Hmm... isn't it okay in English as well?

user62015

He lives far from the station
A) away from the station B) a long way from the station
C) off the station D) No improvement

b or d?

for from the station can be replaced

user62015

08:59

@Man_From_India @DamkerngT. I need your help

He lives far from the station
A) away from the station B) a long way from the station
C) off the station D) No improvement
b or d?
for from the station can be replaced

CowperKettle

> Yes, there are people who drink and smoke but still live to be 120 and healthy, but they are exceptions.

is this okay?

@DamkerngT. is it okay in English?

Damkerng T.

09:50

@CowperKettle I think it's passable. Personally, I think they are exceptional flows better.

userr2684291

10:34

@user62015 I would use "a long way from the station", but I'm not sure whether the sentence is incorrect as it is.

V.V.

Hi, . "In Central Park swarms of happy children are digging their heels into the young grass and not doing a thing to it." Please help me with the part after "and".

userr2684291

@DamkerngT. Isn't this to do with (non-)defining relative clauses?

Damkerng T.

@userr2684291 I don't think so. Which can be used with either defining or non-defining clauses.

userr2684291

@DamkerngT. Yeah, but commas can't, can they?

@V.V. I'm not sure what your sentence is trying to convey.

Damkerng T.

@userr2684291 Huh? Why do you say so?

userr2684291

10:45

@DamkerngT. dictionary.cambridge.org/us/grammar/british-grammar/…

Damkerng T.

@userr2684291 Yeah, but why does it have anything to do with commas?

userr2684291

@DamkerngT. Read it.

Damkerng T.

"Which can be used with either defining or non-defining clauses."

I don't think we have to

(read it)

userr2684291

In writing, we don’t use commas in defining relative clauses:

> This is a man who takes his responsibilities seriously.

> Not: ~~This is a man, who takes his responsibilities seriously.~~

Damkerng T.

That has nothing to do with our sentence, right?

userr2684291

10:48

@DamkerngT. I think it does.

Damkerng T.

Well, I'd simply say we'd have to agree to disagree, then.

I have no time to explain. Maybe someone else can point it out.

user8469759

hi guys

I'm reading through "gerund" and "infinitives" from the longman book

userr2684291

Hey.

user8469759

may I ask for some clarifications?

userr2684291

@user8469759 Ask.

user8469759

10:59

ok so

at the beginning of the chapter, in such book

what it's said is that

We can use -ing forms of verbs in the same way we use nouns - as the subject, object or complement of a verb (these are gerunds)

later, in the same chapter, it is said the same thing about the infinitives

it is specifically said that we can use determiners, e.g. possessives, possessives adjectives and object pronouns (referring to gerund)

for the infinitive instead it is specifically specified they can be used to express "reason" and "purpose" of an action

later again there's a list of verbs that can go with infinitives and the same thing for gerund

and it sounds to me

that the main difference

in pracice

is that we need to match a certain verb with a gerund or an infinitive

except for some exception

in practice I mean, more than thinking that "admit" needs a gerund but "afford" needs an infinitive I don't need to worry about anything else

is my interpretation correct?

V.V.

In general, yes.

user8469759

ok, another question

the gerund can be used with possessive's, possessive's adjective and object pronouns

but there's no mention to relative pronouns

does it mean in practice there's no point in saying sentences like

"What I admitted was that to eat to many burgers is bad for your health"

is that sentence wrong?

sorry I should have used "eating" and not "to eat"

according to the list of verbs I have

"What I admitted was that eating to many burgers is bad for your health"

is such sentence grammatically wrong?

V.V.

Too many

user8469759

xD sorry

"What I admitted was that to eat too many burgers is bad for your health"

damn

"What I admitted was that eating too many burgers is bad for your health"

apologies

so... is that sentence wrong? with specific reference to "that eating"

V.V.

I think it's possible (not a native speaker though).but it isn't connected with your rule.

user8469759

11:13

why?

(I'd like to have a discussion about it)

V.V.

In what way is it connected with your gerund?

user8469759

I wanted to admit something right?

that something is that an action is wrong

the action has to be expressed using a verb

so I have to choose between infinitive and gerund (to eat... eating...)

given the verb "admit" I combine it with the gerund "eating"

given the other rule

I can combine the gerund with possessives....etc

but to me... the sentence I wrote sounds correct (there's the pronoun "that" that is combined with the gerund "eating")

userr2684291

@user8469759 You're following "admit" with a "that"-clause.

Not a gerund or an infinitive.

user8469759

you mean is not the pattern required for the gerund?

is that the point I'm missing?

userr2684291

The rule applies only to the form of verb immediately following the main verb.

user8469759

11:18

main verb is the one in the main clause

is that right?

userr2684291

@user8469759 In this case it was "admit". I italicized it because I wasn't sure how to name it.

user8469759

so to apply the gerund

I should have written

no...

nothing

userr2684291

@user8469759 ..."I admit doing it."

user8469759

I'm not sure of what I should have writtne...

"I admitted eating too many burgers is bad for your health"

But I could also have said

"I admitted your eating too many burgers is bad for your health"

those two sentences are equivalent

and correct

Damkerng T.

Not really, about the equivalent part.

user8469759

11:22

why not?

Damkerng T.

"eating too many burgers is bad for your health" sounds like you are making a general assertion.

"your eating too many burgers is bad for your health" is specific. Besides, it suggests that you think he or she is eating too many burgers.

V.V.

Make it a clause

Damkerng T.

So, they're almost the same but not exactly the same.

user8469759

@V.V. what do you mean with "make it a clause"

?

Pandya

"listing with descending authority" or "listing with descending order of authenticity" or something else better?

userr2684291

11:25

@user8469759 You need "that" before "eating".

user8469759

why do I "need" that?

Damkerng T.

@Pandya I guess you're thinking of something like listing <something> in the order of authenticity.

Or if you use listing as a noun, <something> is not needed.

V.V.

I admitted that... It is another possibility

user8469759

but is this related to the gerund?

userr2684291

@user8469759 No.

user8469759

11:28

than I don't understand

then*

Pandya

@DamkerngT. consider I don't need <something> then?

Damkerng T.

@Pandya a/the/etc. list(ing) in the order of authenticity would be fine.

user8469759

So "I admitted eating..." that's wrong?

Pandya

@DamkerngT. ok. Should I omit "Descending"?

userr2684291

@user8469759 Depending on what the ellipsis stands for.

Damkerng T.

11:30

@Pandya Oh, descending order is fine, too.

userr2684291

@user8469759 "Eating" is a gerund, but you're trying to cram "eating is good" into the gerund position "admit" licenses.

Or "eating is bad", or whatever.

Pandya

@DamkerngT. ok. Thanks!

user8469759

but that's the thing, for small sentence it is easy to understand what is what

Damkerng T.

@user8469759 I think @userr2684291's point was that I admit doing something and I admit (that) [ doing something VERB COMPLEMENT ] are of different structures.

user8469759

for complex sentences recognizing things is wrong

Damkerng T.

11:32

@Pandya You're welcome! (See you around, BTW! :)

user8469759

sorry is difficult*

(I don't know why I said wrong xD)

@DamkerngT., ok, so what's the correct one for gerund?

and what's the general structure to make sure I use gerund correctly

Damkerng T.

I think the more you use English, the more you can feel when it's right and when it's not. :-)

Rules can only take you so far, but (they do) not (cover) all the possible cases.

user8469759

...

I can understand that

but understanding the concept is important

at least in my opinion

M.A.R.

Understanding what concept?

Afternoon everyone

Damkerng T.

Good afternoon! o/

user8469759

11:36

I was reading through my grammar book, about gerunds and infinitives

Damkerng T.

(It's already in the evening over here.)

userr2684291

@user8469759 You have the option of editing your replies.

Damkerng T.

Wait, it's 6:36 already! Argh! I've gotta go!

See you all later! o/

M.A.R.

@DamkerngT. :(

userr2684291

See ya.

user8469759

11:37

and I was trying to work out how to apply the rules it exposes

but apparently I have problems recognizing the patterns required to apply gerunds

userr2684291

@user8469759 Let's return to your example: "eating" is a gerund, but "eating is bad" isn't. Do you understand that?

user8469759

actually no...

why isn't that a gerund?

userr2684291

...

@user8469759 Because gerunds end in "-ing".

user8469759

isn't the same in "eating is bad"?

userr2684291

And it's a single word, it's not a sentence.

user8469759

11:40

ah ok, I'm with you now

sorry

go on

M.A.R.

The old gerund–participle confusion?

Bah.

userr2684291

@user8469759 In order to put that other verb (in this case "is") in that same sentence, you need some kind of connector, for want of a better word.

You can't just say "Cars are nice driving people going to work.", right?

user8469759

right

userr2684291

These "connectors" are basically conjunctions such as "and", or relative pronouns such as "that", or commas, etc.

@user8469759 And you have none of those between your two verbs.

user8469759

"I admitted eating was wrong"

is such sentence wrong?

because there's no "connectors" as you said

?

user62015

11:48

Hi

I have been owning does it make sense? Or we should use I own this or I have owned this

I think we should avoid owning, right?

M.A.R.

@user62015 Right. Verbs like that usually don't get continuous

user62015

Thanks.

Damkerng T.

@M.A.R. Aww

(I'm not at my PC, though.)

userr2684291

@user8469759 The problem with that sentence is that there is an implicit "that" before "eating", so it might actually be an okay sentence.

Damkerng T.

nods

That-omission is quite common, especially in informal contexts.

5

A: Omission of “that” (in this text)

The original text: We seem to forget that we all have some rights over the government. The government has come into being primarily to serve the needs of the citizen, which [sic] he as an individual or as a member of a small community cannot take care. It is important (that) we have an accoun...

user8469759

11:59

I'm really confused...

sorry about that

M.A.R.

Oh my God, a Dam answer

Damkerng T.

:P

userr2684291

@user8469759 "He said (that) he felt better." In this sentence, "that" is understood, so it can be omitted.

@user8469759 The same could be true for your sentence.

@user8469759 When I say "understood", I mean "speakers mentally insert 'that' there".

Personally, I need a "that" there because the sentence doesn't look good without it.

@user8469759 Focus on simple sentences first, because "complex" ones are basically "simple" ones connected in some way.

user8469759

12:43

"Giving is better than receiving" is the same as "To give is better than to receive"

and is also "Swimming makes you fit" the same as "To swim makes you fit"?

and in general whenever I can use "-ing" as subject or object can I also use "to + infinitive" as subject or object?

or complement

Anonymous

In general, no. Sometimes, yes.

Willow

14:02

@snailplane glad someone found it interesting!

M.A.R.

@Willow 6 someones did, actually

Willow

@M.A.R. cool! I only got the one message. Sorry I am scarce due to a medical issue -- which leaves me unable to gather links and info easily. That one fell into my lap!

yubraj

14:29

Hi All!

How to explain a place which is accrose tha Nunsari River? Can Say I live far accrose the Nunsari river?

While introducing myself, I would have to explain my living place(village). So, I need to know this.

@snailplane

@DamkerngT.

Damkerng T.

15:02

I think it's okay, @yubraj.

Never before have I felt this discriminated!

Still wondering why they removed my country from the list

CowperKettle

17:35

@DamkerngT. a much better option is "they are the exception rather than the rule"

Good evening

Damkerng T.

@CowperKettle nods -- I think so. It's not typical in my way of thinking, though.

I guess it might be because some writers tried to use it (its literal translation) in Thai, and I don't know why, but somehow it sounds so forced to me.

Damkerng T.

17:54

@Araucaria Done!

Araucaria

@DamkerngT. Nice one :)

Damkerng T.

Thanks! :D

Araucaria

2

A: Ambiguity of "I don't know what you know."

I don't know what you know. The sentence is ambiguous in terms of its meaning because it's ambiguous in terms of its syntax too. It is possible that the string what you know is a fused relative here (a special kind of relative clause construction sometimes also known as a free relative). In...

CowperKettle

@DamkerngT. My IrowWolf arrived! I thought it was made in Thailand, but the label says "Product of China".

D'oh

Damkerng T.

@Araucaria An interesting question!

@CowperKettle LOL

Araucaria

18:00

@DamkerngT. Yes! I though so :)

CowperKettle

@DamkerngT. I read that they are produced in Thailand

Damkerng T.

Products of China could be made in Thailand, though, I suppose. :P

CowperKettle

Maybe it was made in Thailand. I should check out later.

Maybe its Serial Number will say that it's a Thai-made Wolf

Damkerng T.

Hehe!

CowperKettle

(0:

Damkerng T.

18:02

One of the weirdest thing about Seagate HDDs over here is we can't buy them directly from the factory. They have to be shipped elsewhere and then imported back first.

@Araucaria I think the OP's first pair of examples doesn't quite matched the problem, but second pair is good.

CowperKettle

A group of people in Yekaterinburg submitted a request to the authorities to hold a rally "No to corruption, yes to human rights!". The authorities replied "the title of your rally runs contrary to the Constitution of Russia" and refused to issue a permit.

This is true. This happened yesterday.

Araucaria

@DamkerngT. Sorry, in which question?

Damkerng T.

In the Ambiguity of "I don't know what you know." question.

I think they mixed up semantic with syntax, but that's okay, they're a learner too. :-)

@CowperKettle Hah!

CowperKettle

@DamkerngT. The whole of Russia has a laugh at them

Putin's thugs are banning rallies across the country using made-up excuses

Because a civil investigation came out that discloses that the Russian Prime-Minister got $ 1 000 000 000 in bribes

Araucaria

@DamkerngT. Ah, yes. See what you mean.

Damkerng T.

18:16

@CowperKettle That's quite something!

CowperKettle

@DamkerngT. And in the 15 days that passed there has been not a single TV report about this

In 79 cities across Russia people submitted applications for rallies

Damkerng T.

I guess people over there rely more on social media nowadays.

CowperKettle

People are afraid to speak their mind on social media

Damkerng T.

Ahh

I understand that feeling.

CowperKettle

Putin is a criminal, and people are afraid

As my mom says, "he is both a criminal and a KGB thug". This means he is doubly dangerous.

a school pupil was taken by the police in one town, during a lesson

for registering for a rally

CowperKettle

18:59

So I've deleted and hidden some of my posts just now

I'll try to send more money to the protesters via electronic money services.

But posting on social media is a frightful thing

Damkerng T.

nods

CowperKettle

I haven't even served in the army, so if a revolution starts I'd be of no practical use.

Damkerng T.

@CowperKettle I've heard some mobile phones are bulletproof. Could be a good idea. :P

CowperKettle

@DamkerngT. (0:

M.A.R.

19:20

@Willow I'm scarce and I don't have a medical condition

@DamkerngT. It's not even mobile phones I heard, but phone cases

CowperKettle

When in 2011 Putin rigged the election, a guy was arrested during a rally "for screaming slogans that incited violence". When he was examined before the hearing in court, it turned out he was mute.

Others were not so lucky.

Some passers-by got real jail sentences for just passing by, by chance.

userr2684291

@DamkerngT. Others can be used in warfare as explosives. (:

Damkerng T.

@CowperKettle That's very weird.

@userr2684291 :D

M.A.R.

@userr2684291 I just saw a Samsung commercial that basically said 'WE TEST STUFF, DAMMIT' I dunno if their reputation will ever be fixed

Damkerng T.

Hehe! -- Their new waterproof phones are all over the ad space over here, BTW.

userr2684291

19:32

@M.A.R. Yesterday I bought a new battery for my Note 4, haha.

M.A.R.

Unless Apple compensates by blowing up a couple of iWatches

userr2684291

There have been some reports, IIRC.

Not for the iWatch, though, that I know of.

CowperKettle

@DamkerngT. currenttime.tv/a/28375331.html

An example from Belarus, a couple of days ago

People being taken into buses for just being at the place of the rally

The thugs who take people by force into buses have no uniform upon them.

So it was in Moscow in 2011

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