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01:34
@DamkerngT. yes it looks like an adjective. But it indeed is a determinative. It's a quantifier in its function. There are reasons why I don't consider it an adjective. First, an adverb can't modify it. Second, unlike adjectives it takes part in partitive construction. It's Post-determiner (in Quirk et al terminology). It's obviously not a noun either. No adjective can modify it.
Of course adjectives can take part in partitive construction, but the adjectives are in superlative or comparitive form.
It might be clearer if you look at my other answer.
1
A: "Six women were there" - is six a noun or an adjective?

Man_From_India Six women were there. So what word category does six fall into in this sentence? It's determinative, plain and simple and nothing else in this particular sentence. And this determinative functions as a determiner or, if you prefer, a quantifier here. But the word falls into determinative cat...

02:01
Thinking of a whole new NOUN it looks like whole is not a quantifier, but an intensifier.
But it still is a determinative. CGEL does say about the modification of adjectives by determinatives like this young etc.
03:05
Hmm.., it's probably not a determinative because we can't say I've read whole book.
@DamkerngT. good question, I don't have an answer though :)
[whole book] a NP
Saying that it can't be modified by an adjective is probably not right either.
Think a half whole, a quarter whole, and so on.
What is whole in whole book, then?
Hmmmm i completely ignored such sort of constructions.
Oh ok half is a determinative.
So all of a, half, quarter, whole are determinative?
I think that's a bit strange.
Let's consider a real example from an old book: How many hundredths are equal to three and a quarter whole ones?
Is quarter determinative too?
As far as I can say about your whole book sentence is it's a NP. And whole is a quantifier (function). But it is not determining which book he read. So I think because of this reason we need another determiner before whole.
03:12
@Man_From_India Wait, but is there any quantifier that needs a determiner in front of it?
A two books doesn't sound right, right?
Neither does A one book.
@DamkerngT. nods
But we need a whole book.
Wait one sec. We sometime needs a determiner before quantifier.
i love that two toys
No, we obviously can omit that in front of two in other sentences.
Imagine there are many toys. Out of that I picked 2 toys.
03:15
We can't do the same with whole.
I have two books is grammatical. So is I have one book.
But what about I have whole book?
@DamkerngT. hmmm..let me think...
Also, we can't use a with two.
(E.g., I love a two books)
But obviously you can replace a with that.
Or those.
But that or those isn't quite like a/the, right?
@DamkerngT. of course not, but they are determinative.
I am not very sure about quarter.
03:23
@Man_From_India I think you missed the point. It's true that that/those may be permissible in front of one/two/... as well as whole, but the point was a/the is indispensable in front of whole.
@DamkerngT. yes that's right.
I really have no clue how to explain that. Actually I don't know :-)
You can test it from another angle too. Is there any determiner that can come after one/two/... in, say, I love those two books?
@DamkerngT. no determiner can come after post determiner. One, two etc are post determiner. (Quirk et al terminology)
Pre determiner + Centeral Determiner + Post Determiner = Determinative Phrase
Ah! But we can have two whole books!
@DamkerngT. hmmm yes it's not fitting into that.
I think we need to consider it in some other way. Because if we say it is an adjective, it would create some problem too. Let's check if we have any other old similar questions.
03:55
I quickly browsed the pages pf student version of CaGEL, and I think the authors don't analyze DP structure the way Quirk et al did.
@DamkerngT. I think in two whole books , [whole books] is a nominal, and the determinative two are external modifier, that modifies the whole nominal - whole book. If we analyze it this way our problem is solved I think. We can still think of whole as a determinative.
An example from the book - twice the amount. Here twice is external modifier.
I need to read the main volume more for better understanding.
@Man_From_India But how would a determinative be different from an adjective, then?
Because we can think of red books as a unit, too, if we want to.
Yes I myself am not very clear about the concepts, please give me sometime to read.
Because I have some questions too after reading that book. What is twice in twice the amonut. It says it's a quantifier. But I think quantifier is a function. Not a parts of speech or word class. I need to read a bit carefully from some previous sections for better understanding. So till then let this discussion postpone. Let me know if you too find something interesting.
04:37
@DamkerngT. You are right all along. whole indeed is an adjective, acts like a quantifier. If possible please remove my other comments where I passed on wrong info.
I don't know if I was right. I just thought that it's odd to say that it's a determiner.
@Man_From_India BTW, which comments do you want me to remove?
(Personally, I don't think we should remove any discussions in the past, even when we were not 100% technically correct. It's just the nature of discussion.)
04:52
The first where I shared the link to one of my answers and claiming wrongly that it is an adjective.
05:07
Morning. When you're two together, there's always something interesting
05:40
Yes, they are a duofecta
> Solar power costs had hit a low of Rs 3.30 per unit last month, which is equal to average generation tariffs of NTPCBSE -0.76 %, which produces bulk of its power from coal.

Read more at:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/57565592.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst
Solar power in India now costs the same as power produced by coal
And it expected to become cheaper by year-end
wow
I envy Indians, they have lots of sun
1 message moved to Trash
@Man_From_India Done!
@CowperKettle I wish I could print solar panels with a 3D printer. :P
Now Humanity won't be led astray by chance chat comments
(0:
There are actually 3D printer systems for sale in Yekaterinburg
Seems like the tech is spreading fast
05:48
Some guys printed a castle-like house in Pervouralsk a year ago
They could sell me one of those that can print workable solar panels. :-)
(0:
I like this series of CPUs
A totally silent laptop could be rigged up, if you substitute the HDD with an SSD
PassMark: 3641
Quite good for a fanless CPU
For some reason, there is almost no such models on sale though
It's about as good as Apple's A10, I think.
Oh, this one is 7Y30. I guess it must be better than 6Y30.
06:35
Analysis paralysis or paralysis of analysis is the state of over-analyzing (or over-thinking) a situation so that a decision or action is never taken, in effect paralyzing the outcome.
3
I like it.
Me too :-)
06:56
And I am not sure whether I like it or not.
On the one hand, it is a nice expression, on the other..
hm.
I should analyze it
07:49
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:0)
 
2 hours later…
10:19
Can a photo be subscribed "That's a great view about Ekaterinburg"?
10:41
@CowperKettle If that's your name, sure.
But "a view about something" is OK.
I'd construe it as "an opinion about something".
My name?
I see. Then of is the only good choice
> Why does the word "significant" in the phrase "statistically significant" mean something so different from other uses of the word? Interestingly, this is because the meaning of "significant" in everyday language has changed. It turns out that when the procedures for hypothesis testing were developed, something was "significant" if it signified something.
> Thus, finding that an effect is statistically significant signifies that the effect is real and not due to chance. Over the years, the meaning of "significant" changed, leading to the potential misinterpretation.
The meaning of the word "significant" must have changed since 1908
10:58
@CowperKettle No one uses "subscribe" to mean "write under" anymore. And if someone does, it means "to sign a document", or some such.
11:15
> It is known, too, that he was a Hines admirer, and had sought and received from the General a photo subscribed “To my good friend.”
Google Books
@CowperKettle Yeah, but you see what it means there.
It could've said "signed".
ah, ok
signed is better
Just perhaps more current.
 
1 hour later…
12:37
This grammar I have says He may not be here tomorrow cannot mean He's not allowed to be here tomorrow. Isn't that obviously wrong?
And it also says this sentence is incorrect: Just come when you like - you don't need to phone first.
Probably typos in the answer key, but no harm in checking.
@Færd This is grammatical
I think so.
@Færd I'm feeling too drowsy to think about this one, but it seems wrong/irrelevant to assert such a thing
I conquer.
I mean concur.
Thanks.
@Færd Yay!
Tomorrow, we'll continue conquering English
12:41
It's unconquerable.
You don't seem to have the spirit of a conqueror
I'd be glad to conquer my share of it. It's just too much. I've given that attitude up.
13:40
You have to divide before you conquer.
14:40
@CowperKettle Bah! 1080p looks more expensive than 4K!
I'm reading up on statistics, and google for different terms now and then. I've learned to avoid Wikipedia like the fire. When there's no oversight over article writing, the articles come up a horrible mess.
Yes, a nice joke about 1080p and stuff
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@CowperKettle Could be fun to read, just to see where people are coming from. :P
When I studied chemistry, it was also bad.
The articles are cluttered with unnecessary detail, like ".. although prof. Pfumpfenznicker noted in 1978 that this is not always the case".
14:47
I wonder if there's any conspiracy, to make Wikipedia less reliable. :P
wiki leaks?
No, no conspiracy.
It's just hard to delete information... after all, it is correct. But it clutters the article.
Maybe Wikipedia will come up with some mechanism.
Word of the Day: fake off
3
Oops!
14:54
np
1 message moved to Trash
(about fake off): In case you missed it, search for Weeping Angel.
@skillpatrol Thanks!
15:09
0
A: Confused about "How could I have done this?"

LambieCan/could, present and past tense, no IF clause or whether or other idea. How could I have done* that? is the past tense of: How can I do that? How can you say she is rich [right now, present]? How could you say she was rich [yesterday]? Or: How could you have said she was rich? Summary: prese...

This answer makes me want to review the definition of tense.
@skillpatrol Sounds more like wiki bloat. :P
@DamkerngT. How so?
@Lawrence I'm not sure if we should consider could have a past tense.
@DamkerngT. But it is a past tense (of can have), isn't it?
I think the answer said it's the past tense of could.
Oh. Let me look at that again.
Hmm, I don't see it. Quoting from the answer: "Summary: present tense: can, simple past: could + verb, past perfect: could have + participle."
15:16
Ah, I might misread it.
But don't you think that "How could you say she was rich [yesterday]?" is somewhat misleading?
At first glance, that construct seems to be something of a lament, rather than an everyday sentence. Like "You threw away that vase - it was my favourite. How could you!!"
It almost has an implied "Shame on you!" tacked on at the end.
My point was about that [yesterday].
The "how can you say" version in that answer has a similar feel, but in the present tense.
Yes, but in this case tense (form) does not really indicate time.
Can you elaborate? It seems to indicate time to me.
15:22
How could you ask me this question?
:) . That's in the past tense.
Yeah, but not the past "time".
If you say "How can you ask me this question?", that's in the present tense, and with a somewhat irate tone.
Right. Again, in this usage, tense is not time.
@DamkerngT. Maybe I'm a bit too sleepy. I don't follow - in what sense are you using the word "time"?
I mean, if it's past tense, that indicates time past, right?
Present tense, the time is 'now'.
15:24
Well, like I must say "How could you asked ..." because it's about the past time.
Wait, bad example.
"How could you say I VERBed ...?"
What is the intended interpretation of that sentence?
(Especially in relation to time.)
No interpretation. I just followed a pattern in the answer.
According to the answer, we must use VERBed. VERBed must've happened, because could is in the past tense.
I thought you were trying to make a case that the sentence isn't related to time.
Yeah.
Or more precisely, could does not necessarily indicate time.
Oh - could ask vs could asked?
15:27
No, not that. (That was my braino.)
You could do it.
I'm not talking about something that happened yesterday.
(Because could asked isn't grammatically correct.)
I'm talking about something that might happen now.
Ok, I think "you could do it" is a special construction.
I don't think it's special at all.
Possibly talking about the future rather than the present.
15:29
Yay! Now you see my point!
12 mins ago, by Damkerng T.
But don't you think that "How could you say she was rich [yesterday]?" is somewhat misleading?
@DamkerngT. Light bulb starts a dim glow.
@DamkerngT. That one's fine - she "was" => past tense anyway.
@Lawrence Let's use LEDs instead, for the world! :)
@Lawrence The sentence is fine, grammatically. The implication of the sentence as an explanation is not, IMHO.
@DamkerngT. Ok, low duty cycle at the moment. Saving power or some such. :P
@Lawrence (^_^)
(Just kidding.)
But let's take a closer look at the "could" + present tense construct.
I think the "how could you say" has a little of the flavour of the "did" + present tense thing. (I'm not a linguist - please excuse the informal terminology.)
To shift it (further?) back, you'd need "how could you have said".
15:34
nods
But it's not really about time. At least not always.
But in "how could you say", the thing said was said in the past.
If it was "how can you say", it's about someone's continued assertion in the present.
Isn't it funny that "How can you say" is mostly used about what was just said by another person, which is technically a thing in the past? :P
Then we have "you could do it", which seems to be a whole 'nother kettle of fish.
@DamkerngT. That's why I used the term "continued assertion". Here, "say" has the sense that someone not just speaks the thing, they also believe it. The belief / assertion continues to the present.
If we go in that direction (that say means "believe"), I don't think we should bind tense to time either.
@Lawrence I think "you could do it" is in the irrealis / 'unreal' category.
@DamkerngT. light bulb flickers off
15:40
I'm sorry. I know sometimes my thoughts are hard to follow. :)
(That was my light bulb - I'm sure you know what you're talking about. :) )
I said that because I just made your bulb flicker off.
But it's true. I know sometimes I see things most users don't see in our answers on ELL.
Now, we have things like the subjunctive mood, where the past tense can be used for possible future events.
Is this what you're referring to?
15:42
And most of the time, I don't want to push it too far, because it would become more or less nitpicking.
@Lawrence I think that's one way to look at it.
@DamkerngT. I can identify with that. :)
I'm not sure why the past tense sounds right with irrealis moods, but in realis moods, I think tenses tend to have some bearing on time. However, you also need to factor in the notional reference time ('now'). Once you do that, time and tense tend to track together better.
I agree.
Yay. :)
15:46
:D
I'd better go recharge. Bye!
Recharge happily! (See you around!)
+1 Though I wonder which the OP was confused by more, between of and many a in of many a pet. — Damkerng T. 29 secs ago
See, that's another example of what I see while others do not.
 
2 hours later…
17:40
> A recent study from the Institute of Uncompleted Research says that in 7 cases out of 10
An interesting name for an institute. :D
 
2 hours later…
20:04
@DamkerngT. Weird combination. I wonder if it's a play on 'fuk off'
Or hmm
20:32
I'm guessing any site that offers proofreading from a community of volunteer native speakers (i.e. is free, which is what people coming here want) is going to be volatile and eventually disappear. I say this for the same proofreading is off-topic here: it's a lot of work, not particularly rewarding, and only ever helps one single person. Which means there's not a lot in it for the volunteers, which means they're not incentivized to stick around. So my take (being of the curmudgeonly ELU sort) is the Meta post simply say proofreading is not offered. — Dan Bron yesterday
This is a really good point

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